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Spain Loses Patience With Ryanair  
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 683 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 30695 times:

After a series of recent incidents, including one with injured passengers due to turbulence and several planes which had to declare emergency due to insufficient fuel after a weather-related diversion, it seems Spain is losing its patience with Ryanair. The Spanish infrastructure minister is demanding that Spanish authorities be allowed to perform additional checks on Ryanair planes:

http://www.stern.de/reise/europa/nac...ie-geduld-mit-ryanair-1895787.html


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 30660 times:

Bet they weren't expecting the Spanish inquisition. Their three weapons are fear, surprise, almost fanatical devotion to protecting Spanish airlines, and shiny red uniforms. Damn; among their weaponry is ...

Seriously, though, is this a big worry for FR? As long as their meeting the regulatory requirements of another member state (i.e. Ireland) all should be ok. I knew there have been issues in the recent past, but I suspect there is an element of politics here too?


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5300 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 30192 times:

They are protecting Iberia and Air Europa, and an airline suffering from turbulence can be blamed how exactly?? And the diversions due to weather all 3 had more then minimum required fuel onboard turned out later.

Im not worried, Im flying them to Spain 1-8 October, although im losing patience with the Spanish...


User currently offlineLIFFY1A From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 30078 times:

Spain should really be taking a look closer to home.

How about that dodgy Spanish outfit that crashed a metroliner in Cork? What did the Spanish authorities do about Spanair after there flaps-up take-off in Madrid? Also there ATC is without a doubt the worst in Europe.

Regarding the 3 Ryanair diversions from Madrid, it's funny how the skies opened up to let 9 Spanish aircraft land when most others diverted......


User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 29843 times:

Quoting LIFFY1A (Reply 3):
Spain should really be taking a look closer to home.

Indeed, Just them protecting their poorly run airlines. It's expected in such a poorly run country.
Laughable they can whine about FR suffering turbulence lol, What a joke.. How dare Ryanair not control mother nature!!


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29734 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Bet they weren't expecting the Spanish inquisition

Nobody does.   

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Seriously, though, is this a big worry for FR? As long as their meeting the regulatory requirements of another member state (i.e. Ireland) all should be ok

Indeed. And in any case, in there is indeed evidence of wrong doing by Ryanair, Spanish authorities can investigate.
But we have heard more noise and inuendo from the press and government than any real such evidence.
Even in the Valencia case, I am sure that Ryanair will not be found to have carried less fuel than the legal minimum. If the minimum needs to be changed (even if it's just when weather conditions are unfavourable at the destination airpiort), then Spain is welcome to bring forward such proposals to the Joint Aviation Authority.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
I knew there have been issues in the recent past, but I suspect there is an element of politics here too?

Without a doubt. IB has good friends in government too.


El Pais, a newspaper than can be trusted to be less likely to fall in the hysteria that other media have, published an article yesterday that is more balanced, with opinions from a Spanish pilots union leader that have always been critical of Ryanair to that of Mr O'Leary.
The article dares to criticise AESA - the Spanish air safety agency, which in an audit report 2 years after the Spanair accident was found to have serious deficiencies. One of them was not systematically sending to OASI incident reports,and not been followed up by the government. This agency certainly lacks transparency.
http://economia.elpais.com/economia/.../actualidad/1347653069_726124.html (In Spanish)

One has to wonder if that is still happening. The maydays at Valencia (3 Ryanair and 1 LAN) were originally ignored according to the Avviation Herald. It says that it contacted the CIAIAC -Spain's air investigation branch - dependent of Fomento, as does AESA, and headed by a minister that has tacitally condemmed Ryanair and promised "sanctions" without naming the airline (referring to it as a foreign airline of deep routes) - about the incidents of the 26th July, and that "it saw no reason to start an investigation". This has apparently changed since, but we have yet to see of the more serious LAN A340 incident is part of the investigation, or if it's just a witch-hunt against Ryanair.

http://avherald.com/h?article=454af355

We should all be for more air safety, and more checks if necessary, but the partial way this is being treated by the Spanish government and the press that follows its lines -plus others who just fall for the sensationalism- is really quite troubling.


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29698 times:

Am 26. Juli waren drei Ryanair-Flugzeuge mit Ziel Madrid wegen eines Gewitters nach Valencia umgeleitet worden. Die Maschinen hatten dabei den Notruf Mayday abgesetzt, da die Kerosinmenge ein kritisches Minimum erreichte. Anschließend wurden Vorwürfe laut, die Fluglinie setze die Piloten unter Druck, um die Maschinen aus Kostengründen nur minimal zu betanken.

http://www.stern.de/reise/europa/not...ie-geduld-mit-ryanair-1895787.html

The gist of the above is:

On 26th July 3 flights en route to Madrid encountered bad weather resulting in them declaring an emergency due to low fuel and being diverted to Valencia.

It was subsequently alleged that the airline pressurised the pilots to tank their aircraft to minimal levels on cost grounds,

Now it was not 1 flight to Madrid that had to divert. It was 3. Being aware of the weather conditions, why were the aircraft not tanked with greater reserves? I am sure the captains concerned would have done so, given a free hand.

I can see that it is disruptive to Spain having to deal with maydays in their airspace brought about by aircraft being tanked to the legal minimum even though weather conditions indicated greater reserves to avoid the problem of low fuel. The interest of the passengers in getting from A to B without a diversion to C on the way due to the carrier's penny pinching policies may not matter as far as Ryanair is concerned but declaring avoidable emergencies should matter to Ryanair. It seems to matter to the Spanish authorities. They may see this carrier as an irritating annoyance.

If you go to sea in bad weather, you make allowances so that you do not run out of fuel and need to be rescued. While it may be cheaper not to make allowances, you should not be surprised if people get pissed off with having to rescue you and take action against you to force you to behave more responsibly.


User currently offlineLIFFY1A From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29579 times:

Quoting art (Reply 6):
I can see that it is disruptive to Spain having to deal with maydays in their airspace brought about by aircraft being tanked to the legal minimum even though weather conditions indicated greater reserves to avoid the problem of low fuel. The interest of the passengers in getting from A to B without a diversion to C on the way due to the carrier's penny pinching policies may not matter as far as Ryanair is concerned but declaring avoidable emergencies should matter to Ryanair. It seems to matter to the Spanish authorities. They may see this carrier as an irritating annoyance.

The biggest distuption to Spanish airspace is Spanish ATC. Do you know what kind of vectors the Ryanair aircraft got that night because generally they are very poor in Spain. Do you know how much fuel the Ryanair aircraft departed with? Also, it appears that the LAN emergency was a lot more serious.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
I suspect there is an element of politics here too?


It's all about politics. I don't think it's a smart move either. How many passengers will Vueling bring to Spain this year?


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5300 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29431 times:

Quoting LIFFY1A (Reply 7):
The biggest distuption to Spanish airspace is Spanish ATC. Do you know what kind of vectors the Ryanair aircraft got that night because generally they are very poor in Spain. Do you know how much fuel the Ryanair aircraft departed with? Also, it appears that the LAN emergency was a lot more serious.


It was confirmed afterwards that The Ryanair planes, all three of them, still had fuel above minimum level. In this case you can say it was bad judgement or pressure to land early. Anyway, nowhere was safety compromised.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 3029 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29395 times:

At times I think FR is its own worst enemy. It gets everyones backs up and then leaves itself open for criticism.

In this case, it would likely be politics that plays a part, but i think the airline itself really should learn that throwing dirt and making threats at every turn just makes others wary of their every move.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 29394 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 8):
It was confirmed afterwards that The Ryanair planes, all three of them, still had fuel above minimum level

Not so according to the AV herald. One FR was marginally below the minimum -having consumed 75Kg of the reserve. But that compares to the LAN than that according to the same report ate into 750 Kg of the reserve (and lost an engine -whether related to the low fuel or not,I would like to know)


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1722 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 29006 times:

I believe Spain surely protects their own airlines at all costs but I also believe these measures originate partly in the way Ryanair has dealt with the various airport authorities throughout the country. Arguments like 'if we have to pay fees, we'll terminate our ops to your airport' will surely count in as well in this matter.
FR & Spain aren't friends and this is more about giving the other one a hard time, than that it is a serious issue.
It is a fact that FR had some issues in Spain lately, but having their fleet checked extra is over the top.

Politics v2.0 and nothing more



flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 28589 times:

Quoting LIFFY1A (Reply 7):

The biggest distuption to Spanish airspace is Spanish ATC. Do you know what kind of vectors the Ryanair aircraft got that night because generally they are very poor in Spain.

This is correct, but.

If it is already a known fact that the Madrid ATC is very poor then you need to carry additional fuel for this.
Getting caught out and then saying that ATC is always crap in not an excuse.
If you know from daily experience that the ATC service is bad then you have to include that in your fuel calculations.
If you constantly get vectored and delayed then you need to PLAN for this.

That's the law.

If Madrid ATC is ALWAYS bad then it's NOT an unforeseen circumstance anymore.


User currently offlinetropical From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 28489 times:

A close relative of mine works for an airline in Spain and says Ryanair has few friends in the industry there. They have a reputation for requesting eyebrow-raising numbers of priority landings quoting low fuel. Needless to say competitors are not chuffed.

O'Leary doesn't help his company's cause earlier. When Spanair went belly up he made some rather crass and sneering comments about it to the Spanish media. I don't think Spanair employees and their families will ever forgive him for it.


User currently offlineLIFFY1A From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 28351 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):
If it is already a known fact that the Madrid ATC is very poor then you need to carry additional fuel for this.
Getting caught out and then saying that ATC is always crap in not an excuse.
If you know from daily experience that the ATC service is bad then you have to include that in your fuel calculations.
If you constantly get vectored and delayed then you need to PLAN for this.

I don't know what happened but from the reports they did plan for all this, apparently 2 of the aircraft landed above final reserve and the other landed, according to a post above, having used 75kgs of final reserve. Should they have planned for the LAN engine failure as well, then again that was an unforeseen circumstance.


User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1609 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 26939 times:

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 4):
t's expected in such a poorly run country.

Still better run then Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Poland. Oh and while the banks are mostly bankrupt the country itself has less debts then most country's in Europe.(even less then Germany)     

Quoting DALCE (Reply 12):
Ryanair has dealt with the various airport authorities throughout the country

Exactly, it's more a politics issue then safety issue.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):
Getting caught out and then saying that ATC is always crap in not an excuse.

Indeed.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):

If Madrid ATC is ALWAYS bad then it's NOT an unforeseen circumstance anymore.

It. might be a bad ATC however as you describe it should be known by all airliners.

I would rather fly any spanish airline than the crappy Ryan Air.   



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 25146 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Im not worried, Im flying them to Spain 1-8 October, although im losing patience with the Spanish...

Well, if you are losing patience with the Spanish... you are welcome to cancel your trip on FR and ask MOL for a refund... oh wait...  

As for the Spanish Gov pushing the Irish authorities to investigate FR... well, I think it´s a bit too much, but it could be a good idea to pull their ears and shake them up a bit.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2860 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24765 times:

Ryanair being in the news for turbulence is completely ridiculous.


Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24590 times:

Spain's own airlines have been far from perfect of late as this article demonstrates:

http://www.murciatoday.com/spanish-g...es-operating-in-spain_13064-a.html


User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24549 times:

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 18):
Ryanair being in the news for turbulence is completely ridiculous

Well, people were injured, that´s why they got on the news.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24496 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Bet they weren't expecting the Spanish inquisition. Their three weapons are fear, surprise, almost fanatical devotion to protecting Spanish airlines, and shiny red uniforms. Damn; among their weaponry is ...

Well done...  


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 683 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 24210 times:

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 18):
Ryanair being in the news for turbulence is completely ridiculous.

To be fair, the turbulence incident (with injuries) was only one aspect, along with the fuel emergency incidents and a couple others.

German pilot association Cockpit also openly criticized Ryanair for their fuel loading policy just a few days ago in the wake of the emergencies in Spain:

http://www.vcockpit.de/index.php?id=..._ttnews[cObj]=696&cHash=7b96c2a8cf

They also point out that Ryanair's subsequent explanations of the fuel emergencies were inconsistent and contradictory.



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 22892 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Bet they weren't expecting the Spanish inquisition. Their three weapons are fear, surprise, almost fanatical devotion to protecting Spanish airlines, and shiny red uniforms. Damn; among their weaponry is ...
Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
They are protecting Iberia and Air Europa, and an airline suffering from turbulence can be blamed how exactly?? And the diversions due to weather all 3 had more then minimum required fuel onboard turned out later.

[quote=Giancavia,reply=4]Indeed, Just them protecting their poorly run airlines. It's expected in such a poorly run country.
Laughable they can whine about FR suffering turbulence lol, What a joke.. How dare Ryanair not control mother nature!!

Could you please give us some facts, and not just dogmas, of how Spain is protecting our airlines? The facts are:

- Spain is Ryanair's largest market.
- Ryanair is Spain's nº1 airline in terms of passengers carried.
- Spain is the country, with the UK, where Ryanair has more bases (11).
- Among the 20 busiests airports in Europe, Ryanair only flies to 5 of them, 3 being in Spain: MAD (nº 5), FCO (nº 7), BCN (nº 9), LGW (nº 10) and PMI (nº 15).
- Until Spanair ceased operations, Spain was, with the USA, the only country in the world with 3 airlines from the 3 different big alliances.
- Until Spanair ceased operations, MAD was the only airport in the world (with LAX) where 3 different airlines from 3 different alliances had a base. And, apart from that, the 2 biggest low-cost airlines (FR and U2) also had a base there.
- Now that Spanair has closed, MAD is still the only airport being a base for two airlines from two different alliances, + FR.

And do you still believe that the Spanish Government wants to protect Iberia here? If they wanted to, they would have lobbied for IB when they tried to buy JK. If they wanted to, they would have increased airport taxes at MAD and BCN long time ago, and FR wouldn't fly there. If they wanted to, the Spanish Government wouldn't have approved a tax exemption in 2009 only for FR. And if they wanted to, the different Spanish regions and cities wouldn't give FR subsidies every year and they would give them to other operators.

So please, don't tell me that Spain is a protective country, cause we aren't. Look at how the competitive aviation panorama is in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium or other countries and then compare it to ours.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Im not worried, Im flying them to Spain 1-8 October, although im losing patience with the Spanish...

You are invited to cancel your trip, then. We have plenty of tourists, and we don't care about having one less if he has lost patience with us.

Quoting DALCE (Reply 12):
I believe Spain surely protects their own airlines at all costs but I also believe these measures originate partly in the way Ryanair has dealt with the various airport authorities throughout the country. Arguments like 'if we have to pay fees, we'll terminate our ops to your airport' will surely count in as well in this matter.
FR & Spain aren't friends and this is more about giving the other one a hard time, than that it is a serious issue.
It is a fact that FR had some issues in Spain lately, but having their fleet checked extra is over the top.

Politics v2.0 and nothing more
Quoting tropical (Reply 14):
O'Leary doesn't help his company's cause earlier. When Spanair went belly up he made some rather crass and sneering comments about it to the Spanish media. I don't think Spanair employees and their families will ever forgive him for it.

The Spanish media and the Spanish Government don't need to make bad press against Ryanair. The airline doesn't it for them everytime a passenger flies with them or everytime they threaten the Central or Regional Governments when they do anything they don't like. But the truth here is that, the day of 3 three emergency landings at Barajas, the bad weather affected everybody for a whole afternoon, but the emergencies for low fuel only came from 3 aircraft from the same company. And yesterday even the company had to publish a press release apologising for another incidence (and this is not something we are used to).

Quoting autothrust (Reply 16):
Quoting Giancavia (Reply 4):
It's expected in such a poorly run country.

Still better run then Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Poland. Oh and while the banks are mostly bankrupt the country itself has less debts then most country's in Europe.(even less then Germany)

   Less than Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Belgium, France, the UK, Germany, Hungary, Austria and Malta. But it's easy to blame the whole country only because there is a problem with a foreign airline that will probably end with anything against them.

[Edited 2012-09-17 08:34:07]

User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 21438 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 23):
And do you still believe that the Spanish Government wants to protect Iberia here? If they wanted to, they would have lobbied for IB when they tried to buy JK.

I feel forced to point out that there is a different party in power in Spain that it's showing a different attitude.
Also, you cannot pretend that the national and regional governments act in unison. Not the case. Indeed, some communities in contrast to central government have defended giving subsidies to airlines (Air Nostrum, Vueling, Ryanair and iberia) and are not convinced by the safety scares.

Quoting realsim (Reply 23):
If they wanted to, they would have increased airport taxes at MAD and BCN long time ago, and FR wouldn't fly there. If they wanted to, the Spanish Government wouldn't have approved a tax exemption in 2009 only for FR.

It was a different administration in 2009 than it is now. It is also a different attitude.

Ryanair is certainly Spain's largest domestic airline, but I can see clearly that the central government is not happy with that.

Whilst I don't agree with some of the harsh comments that have been said about Spain in this thread, I do think that there is politics at the heart of the controversy, and that the are air safety issues much beyond Ryanair. The government seems to be looking at the speck in the eyes of others and not at the plank in its own.

Quoting realsim (Reply 23):
But the truth here is that, the day of 3 three emergency landings at Barajas, the bad weather affected everybody for a whole afternoon, but the emergencies for low fuel only came from 3 aircraft from the same company. And yesterday even the company had to publish a press release apologising for another incidence (and this is not something we are used to).

As it has been widely discussed, there was a 4th incident, that of LAN A340 that was more serious, and that has been curiously ignored.
There are incidents quite often, except that not all are reported.
If Spain was really serious about safety, it would just get on and be more transparent about logging and following up incidents on *all* airlines, including doing random checks. But as things stand at the moment, it is clearly a witch hunt. It has been handled in the most tendencious way.


User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19845 times:

It's not all about the last few fuel diversions. Dutch & German media are now reporting on a new story from Spanish newspaper ''El Mundo'' which cites FR has been involved in 1201 problems. A few of the problems in the order as they are being named.

Cabin pressure problems.
Emergency landings due to fuel shortages.
Refusal to cooperate with unannounced safety inspections.
Deviations from flightplans.
Unjust boarding refusals.

Now i'll give FR some credit as things like the last spat of fuel diversions can happen to anyone & obviously i'll take a lot of these things with a grain of salt but it's quite the number. Anyway, if FR has their house in order they surely can't be too worried about any checks.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
25 UALWN : Or the Vatican, for that matter.... And much less than the US. If anything, the previous administration was more prone to protectionism than the curr
26 Post contains links kaitak : Sorry, I think you might have missed my rather hamfisted attempt at humour there; there is a famous routine from a British comedy troupe, which begin
27 JBH : Totally agree. I have lived many years in Spain and the comments made here about the country and its politics are non-sense. Of course, there are pro
28 dwightm : Even bad publicity is still publicity, in this case - FREE publicity. FR management wants to ensure it's name is spelled correctly in any & all p
29 Post contains links RDH3E : 25% unemployment as of July, lets talk about "well run" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_by_country
30 UALWN : I was talking about debt: 70% of GDP in Spain, 105% of GDP in the US. But we can also talk about unemployment. The real number is much lower than 25%
31 prebennorholm : Not in the context in which it is told. They tell about three Maydays due to fuel shortage caused by weather. And then they indicate "between the lin
32 WROORD : You must have a lifetime subscription to the Economist! I though this was an aviation forum not the European Parliament.
33 Post contains links mad99 : Ryanair responses http://www.ryanair.com/doc/news/2012/openletter.pdf http://www.ryanair.com/doc/news/2012/open_letter2.pdf
34 autothrust : Couldn't agree more. Some people should first look in the mirror before bashing. No i don't have. It is a aviation forum and i did only reply to the
35 blueflyer : Maybe someone ought to take a long, hard look at Ryanair and how it operates, because the Irish Aviation Authority certainly isn't interested in doing
36 sweair : I have never flown with FR but I don't mind them existing, they seem to do ok and have a large customer base, despite all kinks to it. I do fly Norweg
37 summa767 : Some very serious accusations by Ryanair of the Ministry in charge of aviation safety in Spain. It is a shame that an agency that should act with rig
38 clydenairways : Im not suggesting taking two hours holding fuel on every flight just for the sake of it. The issue was the combination of known factors that day, whi
39 ual777uk : I have my own gripes about FR but have to say that in this instance I am at a loss as to understand what the Spanish are doing here.....MLO clearly i
40 mad99 : Most likely just die off. I use fr to fly mad dub even though i'm platinum on AF/KLM. It's cheaper and direct. If you play by the rules fr is as chea
41 UALWN : But I do... The previous administration was socialist, and this is right-wing liberal. What else do you need?
42 summa767 : Actually, what I was looking for was examples of how the previous government was more protectionist than the current one. I understand that ideologic
43 Post contains links RDH3E : I'll cite wikipedia, which you can disagree with if you'd like but there are usually decent sources behind the information there. This suggests that
44 Post contains links kl911 : That will come soon: “We welcome today’s joint statement from the Irish and Spanish Governments which affirms that Ryanair’s safety standards a
45 UALWN : The overall Employment to Population ratio is basically meaningless, because, for instance, the US may have a larger fraction of the population in th
46 RDH3E : You didn't click the link, those figures ARE for the population of working age. From the chart: "Employment-to-population ratio in OECD countries, Pe
47 UALWN : My bad. Spain's ratio, however, is still similar to that of Belgium, Italy, Ireland, and not far from that of, say, France. If you add the "gray mark
48 nycdave : NOOOOOOBODY expects the Spanish inquisition! (sorry, had to).
49 Post contains links mad99 : http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_35762.shtml Meeting held in DUB
50 realsim : Oh, come on, what are we talking about here? Everytime there's a thread related to Spain in this forum, there's always someone who has to point out o
51 kl911 : There is also an article in yesterdays Spanish Yahoo finace section, detailing the fact that Iberia and Vueling had more official incidents then Ryan
52 Post contains links summa767 : The Irish Aviation Authority has issued its report into the mayday landings - only one of which actually landed marginally below the reserve. They all
53 Post contains links and images Asturias : There's plenty of dodgy irish outfits, how about them? FR for one. If you are curious, then you can google it. What utter nonsense. Complete nonsense
54 summa767 : In the official report ATC does not come out smelling of roses actually.
55 Post contains images eicvd : Plenty? Care to give us a few more examples? Oh yes FR are very dodgy BTW, you know with 0 fatal accidents
56 Asturias : If that makes them the worst in the world, then I'll concede you have a point.
57 kl911 : FR Dodgy? Do you want to read the article again in the Spanish Yahoo finance section from 2 days ago? Both Iberia and Vueling had more reported incid
58 Post contains links UALWN : I'd love to, but I haven't been able to find it. Care to post a link? In the meantime, I've found this article http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/09/
59 mad99 : One of the most successful in the world. I can't find a similar one in English?
60 Post contains images PanHAM : One of the most successful in world can be the worst at the same time I think that FR takes the cake for that category. IMHO that business model is no
61 pesit4a : Wow! Quite a bit of derogatory talk here! No need to be talking about Spain as a "badly run country". That simply is not true. Abd certainly not becau
62 ju068 : I see nothing wrong even if Spain wanted to protect its own airlines. Every normal country does that.
63 mad99 : Not likely Have you ever flown on FR? Can you provide proof of this? thanks
64 autothrust : The route MAD- BCN was the busiest in the world. And the Spanish ATC could handle it as bad as it might be.
65 Post contains images tropical : Perhaps the analogy doesn't work with aviation, but there are plenty of examples out there of companies being the most successful in their field whil
66 pesit4a : Ask any commercial pilot from outside Spain who flies there. Look, its not an attack on your country. But when everyone says the same thing to you, y
67 babybus : If I were Spain I'd turn a blind eye to FR and their antics. The cash strapped Spanish population may find their international wings severely clipped.
68 art : If you a member of the EU there are a lot of limits to what you can do to protect your national companies. I have not read every post here but are yo
69 kl911 : Thats about it, ATC speaking Spanish with Spanish airlines, and absolute terrible English with others. And we didnt even start talking about ridiculo
70 UALWN : The cash-strapped Spanish population was doing great before FR set shop there, and would keep on doing great if they left. Now, the drunk Britons who
71 sweair : FR is in an argument about air bridges over at Alicante, they don't want to pay for this. I usually go to MJV so nemas problemas over there. Hope to s
72 Post contains images Blueshamu330s : mad99, what proof do you require? That when you are approaching AGP at the front of a line of inbounds, you are told to hold at MARTIN at stupid level
73 Mortyman : Why do many in Sweden hate Norwegian ? First I've heard of it ...
74 Post contains images sweair : Its people who can´t let go of the 80´s and SAS dominance. I love Norwegian, I go with them all the time and many of my friends too, there is nothi
75 pesit4a : Even as pax you notice it! The airborne tours of Madrid as you are vectored into another dimension are always so enjoyable...
76 PanHAM : yes, long before they became known in Germany. 2 or 3 flights afzer they establsihed their first base here but that is long ago. For one thing, I liv
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