Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.  
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7308 posts, RR: 85
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6902 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

They've been doing this flight since 1979 and are finally drawing a line (political) and trying to dump this flight. I'm not sure the frequency they run TLV-CAI, but it can't' hurt their bottom line.   

http://www.france24.com/en/20120916-...aels-el-al-looks-end-cairo-flights


I miss the old Anet.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6879 times:

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
and are finally drawing a line (political) and trying to dump this flight.

Are you saying the reason for El Al ceasing TLV-CAI is for political reasons? Reading the article it seems more economic based. Just as BA recently downgraded LHR-CAI from a 744 to an A321.


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1717 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting bastew (Reply 1):
Are you saying the reason for El Al ceasing TLV-CAI is for political reasons? Reading the article it seems more economic based. Just as BA recently downgraded LHR-CAI from a 744 to an A321.
Quote:
"Without any commercial justification and in light of the high economic cost of operating this line, El Al cannot continue to bear these heavy expenses, and therefore is intending to stop operating the route to Cairo immediately," said the letter, excerpts of which were published in Maariv.

Doesn't sound political at all!

It seems the recent(ish) turmoil has really hurt traffic to CAI. UA even had EWR-CAI on the books before all of the riots began. Hopefully things will begin to settle down and traffic will pick back up.


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5199 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

I think the OP means that operating the route is a political decision, even when its not a viable route.

User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2393 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

They are not just trying, the flights have already been suspended for some time. From what I can tell they first announced an interruption of flights in mid-April. Since then the resumption date has been constantly postponed.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

I think they could be playing it safe to at the moment, things are not to good in the Middle East so supend the flights and wait till things settle down.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5833 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5137 times:

Why is Israel govt. so adamant on LY maintaining this route when its not viable? they let Amman go, whats special about CAI? they wanted to drop it back with ORD, LCA and IST but were forced to keep it.

User currently offlineNYC2TLV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

I believe that flights between CAI and TLV were part of the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. Each country had to have flights to the other. Why LY was forced to do this was probably because of the small share the government owns. On the Egyptian side, they use the paper airline 4D which offers the entire MS network for connections from TLV to other key African markets (JNB, LOS, NBO).

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5833 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

So a political route that needs to end.

User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1704 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

I believe it is/was a weekly route, with a loadfactor far below any economical mindset. It was indeed part of the peace treaty between the countries.
With LY also facing rough economical times, they are really looking for ending this costly/useless route without harming the political situation between the given countries.



flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I am sure that the former operations to AMM were more easy than the CAI flights.


User currently onlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):
I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I was wondering the same question...



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

It should probably be remembered that most Israel-Egypt travel before last year was actually over the land border at Taba/Eilat, so LY/Air Sinai never really had the upper hand in the market to begin with.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):

I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I am sure that the former operations to AMM were more easy than the CAI flights.

I believe LY had some sort of permanent staff at CAI - the State of Israel maintained a huge security corps for its small presence in Cairo; LY generally has permanent staff at most of its stations too.

AMM operations were easier security wise for a number of reasons - better relations between the Jordanian and Israeli security forces being one of them. However, El Al doesn't quite have the metal for AMM - and RJ's TLV-AMM really benefits mostly from connections to India and Asia. Arkia does decently on AMM, from what I'm told by a friend at Arkia.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
I believe LY had some sort of permanent staff at CAI - the State of Israel maintained a huge security corps for its small presence in Cairo; LY generally has permanent staff at most of its stations too.

Thanks for the answer. I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons (i.e. more discretion, easier to secure the various areas = less people etc.)?


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
Thanks for the answer. I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons (i.e. more discretion, easier to secure the various areas = less people etc.)?

Probably some of that, but there's also a big bank of flights in the wee morning hours from TLV. There was a period during which LY sold TLV/CAI package tours with connections in TLV on the way back to Europe/USA.

More importantly, CAI was by far the shortest LY route for a long while, and many of the 737s were needed on longer R/Ts to Europe that left in the morning and returned in the evening.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

This route is so hugely symbolic for everyone hoping for middle east peace. While EL AL needs to operate it on a commercial basis (at least somewhat), it would be a shame if this route ceased. It's so unfortunate that 30 years of peace betw Israel and Egypt (albeit a cold peace) have not yielded business and tourism opportunities to commercially justify this flight.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons

I read in another thread that EL AL operates the CAI route in darkness for security reasons. Same with the IST flights.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinetom355uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2321 times:

Quoting bastew (Reply 1):

Actually, BA run a 772 on this route. It was a 744 route for years, then I think a while back it changed to 772. During the summer it switched to 744 again - not sure whether it was seasonal allocation or planned maintenance coverage and since the beginning of September it's back on 772. BMI used to run it with an A332, then it was down gauged to an A321 - which BA had continued to operate until the takeover was fully complete. I've a feeling it might have ended by now - if it hasn't it certainly will within the next few months.



on Twitter @tombeckett2285
User currently offlineGRUIAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

The TLV-CAI route was a lot stronger when tourism to Egypt was at its peak. The route was important for tour operators that linked tours of the holy land with Egypt - so the routes was typically patronized by third-country tourists going between the two countries.

User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 16):
Actually, BA run a 772 on this route. It was a 744 route for years, then I think a while back it changed to 772

BA LHR-CAI is due to change to the new midhaul A321. I think the changeover is scheduled to take place in January once sufficient A321s have been refurbished [with new flat bed [mid-haul] Club World seating and individual IFE throughout the plane] to cover the route.

There will also only be one BA flight a day instead of 2 with BA/BD.


User currently offlinetom355uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 18):

Will these be the former BMI (BMED) aircraft? Don't they already have the old Club World seats, as BMI use(d) them on the EVN/IKA, AMM, and ADD routes?

I find the continued unrest really sad, as it must be decimating the tourism industry. I had the best holiday of my life in Egypt a couple of years back, and I adored Cairo - still my favourite city I've visited. At that time, flights were really difficult to get at a reasonable price, even with the capacity at the time well over 1000 seats per day: a legacy I think of the historic ties between Egypt and the UK. If a daily A321 is the best fit now, then it shows how things have gone downhill. Sad.  



on Twitter @tombeckett2285
User currently offlinetodareisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Why is Israel govt. so adamant on LY maintaining this route when its not viable? they let Amman go, whats special about CAI? they wanted to drop it back with ORD, LCA and IST but were forced to keep it.

Think of the Middle East modern history, the significance of the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, the hopes that surrounded this treaty and you'll easily understand "what is so special about CAI".

El Al planes over Cairo's skies and on CAI tarmac were supposed to symbolize what was seen as the start of a new era, an era in which Israel would finally be allowed to integrate into the region and in which peace would prevail.

Even though everybody is aware that things did not develop according to said hopes, the end of these flights is a bitter and strong reminder of this failure, and thus there is something very special about it.



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 19):
Will these be the former BMI (BMED) aircraft? Don't they already have the old Club World seats, as BMI use(d) them on the EVN/IKA, AMM, and ADD routes?

Yes I think the 'new' midhaul configured A321s are all ex BMI/BMED aircraft but they are being refurbed with a new 'club world' seat which had been ordered by BMI before they were taken over and which are now being fitted by BA. Along with CAI these 321s are also slated to be used on the new 3 daily TLV services [replacing the 2 existing dailies- 1x772 and 1x767] and certain of the surviving ex-BD mid haul services.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Is EL AL Returning To Mexico City In 2010? posted Mon Oct 27 2008 07:21:05 by TodaReisinger
MOD Still Trying To Keep Skywest Flights To LAX posted Fri Apr 25 2008 08:06:03 by FATFlyer
Air Canada To End Cargo Flights posted Wed Apr 23 2008 00:21:10 by OceansWorld
Possibility Of EL AL Flying To Casablanca? posted Sun Dec 23 2007 08:55:33 by Bambicruz
KLM To End Widebody Flights To LHR posted Sat Nov 24 2007 05:04:57 by HB-IWC
Mesa/Air Midwest To End Chicago Flights From MWA posted Thu Oct 18 2007 10:26:27 by Atrude777
El AL Expects To Have B787 By 2011 posted Tue Jul 17 2007 18:31:30 by Flying-Tiger
El Al Looks To U.S. Market To Help Restore Demand posted Wed Jul 11 2007 20:13:42 by Laxintl
El Al Looking To Buy Airbus Planes posted Mon Apr 10 2006 18:07:39 by FlyPrivate
El Al Routes To Far East posted Sat Feb 4 2006 18:59:53 by Yazeed