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Tensions Between China & Japan Will Impact JAL?  
User currently offlinefly828 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 14 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3596 times:
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I noticed JAL has been using B737s to fly into China on many routes compared to 80s & 90s when they typically used B747s & DC-10-40s. If the tension continues,their newly structured 737 fleet are very difficult to be deployed to other routes such as southeast asian countries or beyond, The legs are simply too short for 737 to reach any of their major destinations out from Japan island.

They may either reallocate the capacity to its domestic routes, or start suffering the pain from the tension.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7201 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Here's the thing about this whole situation:

Despite what the media shows about the protests, MOST of the citizens of Japan and China could give 2 sh*ts about the whole thing. Most of them agree with me, that squabbling over a bunch of rocks is something that's really a pathetic waste of money.

I say most because yes, of course there's nationalists in both countries.

That's gonna happen. No matter what.


Here's the thing- businessmen, no matter what, are going to travel between China and Japan. All those flights have been added over the years which have alleviated the need for widebodies on these routes. I expect the tensions, as long as they just stay rhetoric, to eventually subside to whatever..squabbling...those sides have been doing for the last 20 or so years.

China's gonna blame Japan for raping their women, Japan's gonna blame China for corruption and bad business practices and supporting North Korea who kidnapped Japanese people    it's pathetic but it's politics. Aaaaaand this belongs in the Non-Av forum   

I like the civility that the Chinese and Japanese members on the forum have. I love seeing my Japanese friends at ASU hanging out with Chinese students.

I just wish that it could happen in real life.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Despite what the media shows about the protests, MOST of the citizens of Japan and China could give 2 sh*ts about the whole thing. Most of them agree with me, that squabbling over a bunch of rocks is something that's really a pathetic waste of money.

I am not so sure about that. While it may not be smartest thing to fire bullets/rockets/missiles at each other, the area in question plus other territorial disputes in & around PRC is definitely on the minds of citizens of each country.
Hopefully, this can be resolved peacefully.
Nevertheless, if things start to get out of hand, this will not only affect JL but NH and Chinese carriers too.

JL has slashed its int'l network and downsized greatly over the past few years. Some flights that were 747s just a few years ago are now 738s.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 2):
JL has slashed its int'l network and downsized greatly over the past few years. Some flights that were 747s just a few years ago are now 738s.

Yes but is that because of growing political tension between the two countries or because of increased competition between the two large markets? Chinese carriers have improved over the past couple of years.


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

The downsizing at JAL is largely due to its re-structuring over the past few years, not related to the current tensions.

User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

I think it's unrelated to the tensions over the East China Sea, more to do with their restructuring.

I doubt the tensions will affect the airlines of both countries.

Remember that China also faces rising tensions over the South China Sea with the 10-member ASEAN grouping which includes Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia. I don't think you'll see less SQ or TG in China!

And of course there's Taiwan too but let's not go there..

I'm sure all the countries involved will find some compromise at some point. If it gets to the level of affecting commercial air rights, that'll probably mean we're on the brink of a third world war!


User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

The tensions are indeed impacting JAL. Flights will be cut to/from Beijing and Shanghai in October according to this article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...d-islands-spat-shares-fall-2-.html

Quote:
Japan Airlines Co. (9201) cut flights to China as a dispute over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea spurs travel boycotts and street protests. The carrier’s shares, which relisted on the stock market this week, tumbled.

The airline will reduce services to Beijing and Shanghai starting Oct. 10 until Oct. 27, it said by e-mail today. A total of 12,000 seat reservations from September to November have been canceled, said Sze Hunn Yap, a spokeswoman at JAL. All Nippon Airways Co. has no immediate plans to cut flights, Ryosei Nomura, a spokesman, said by phone.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

More specifics.

NRT-PVG reduced from 3x to 2x daily
NRT-PEK reduced from 2x to 1x daily
KIX-PVG reduced from 2x to 1x daily



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7201 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
NRT-PEK reduced from 2x to 1x daily

Wow that's a pretty drastic cut. My buddy in Aoyama has been really struggling trying to figure out how to do his business in China without having to deal with the nationalists...he said to me today that his flight was actually cut (I guess it was this drawback)



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6529 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2183 times:

What is "funny" is that the interest in these islands is economic. So, to safeguard a possible future money making enterprise there (that may never happen), the current economy is now hurt, at a really bad moment to boot.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
What is "funny" is that the interest in these islands is economic.

It has nothing to do with economic interest contrary to what the countries involved might say. It's all about power.

There's two fronts. The East sea disputes between China and Japan (and Korea) and the South sea disputes between China and the ASEAN nations, particularly Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. In the case of the latter, having at least some of the islands would allow China's growing military prowess to extend out further so they exert greater influence on these countries which have traditionally been American allies. Tensions have been rising here too especially after China built "Sansha" city on one of the dispute islands in July. ASEAN needs to get its act together or they're going to lose some diplomatic maneuvers.

Back to the topic, did JL announce if these cuts are temporary? They could just be seasonal right?


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

The recent reduction in flights by JAL will come into affect on the 10 of October and at the moment run through till the 27 October 2012, the 1st week of Oct you have the national holiday here in China so they didn't want to mess around with that.

Overall not much progress is being made!



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3634 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
NRT-PEK reduced from 2x to 1x daily

Wow that's a pretty drastic cut.

It may seem like a drastic 50% cut, but we're talking about cutting a 738 flight here for 18 days. All the flights being cut are flights currently flown by the 738. I'm waiting to see if JL860/869 changes to a 767 on Oct. 28 as previously announced. JL860/869 is the flight that will be flown from Oct. 10 to Oct. 27. JAL is also supposed to upgauge the 738 flights from NRT/NGO-PVG to 767s on the same day.

I'm actually surprised that ANA has not changed their schedule by either suspending flights or downgauging. ANA has seen more reservation cancellations than JAL.


Quoting infinit (Reply 10):
It has nothing to do with economic interest contrary to what the countries involved might say. It's all about power.

Actually, it is economic. The countries in Asia want the various islands mostly because of the natural resources that they can reap from the 200nm exclusive economic zone that control over these uninhabited islands gives these countries. Some of the South East Asian islands in the dispute reportedly have oil or gas fields in their exclusive economic zone.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting ha763 (Reply 12):
Actually, it is economic. The countries in Asia want the various islands mostly because of the natural resources that they can reap from the 200nm exclusive economic zone that control over these uninhabited islands gives these countries. Some of the South East Asian islands in the dispute reportedly have oil or gas fields in their exclusive economic zone.

Yeap, I'm aware of the oil and gas fields. Yes, there are economic reasons for it, but I believe the real long-term motives are military and power. China knows that if they control the Spratly chain they can have their airforce there for example.. Well within easy reach of most of the ASEAN countries.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

Well JAL are making reductions now add to that ANA seems no one is taking the risk,

ANA plans to reduce capacity on Beijing service in October 2012.



Osaka Kansai – Beijing Boeing 737-700 replaces 767-300ER: 17OCT12 – 24OCT12 (Except 19OCT12), 29OCT12 – 31OCT12

Tokyo Haneda – Beijing Boeing 767-300ER replaces 777-200ER: 17OCT12 – 24OCT12 (Except 19OCT12)

Tokyo Narita – Beijing Boeing 737-700 replaces 767-300ER: 18OCT12 – 31OCT12 (Except 24OCT12)



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

Now today CA are reducing services to JAPAN but they are blaming aircraft shortage ! ha-ha-ha

Beijing – Okinawa 10OCT12 – 27OCT12 2 weekly service CANCELLED
Beijing – Osaka Kansai 01OCT12 – 26OCT12 Service reduces from 3 daily to 2 daily, CA927/928 cancelled (Except 07OCT12)
Beijing – Sapporo Service cancelled on following dates: 02OCT12, 06OCT12, 12OCT12, 16OCT12, 19OCT12, 23OCT12, 26OCT12
Beijing – Tokyo Narita 15OCT12 – 27OCT12 Service reduces from 18 to 17 weekly, CA167/168 cancelled on Day 1 (Service on 03OCT12 also cancelled)
Hangzhou – Tokyo Narita 01OCT12 – 27OCT12 4 weekly service CANCELLED
Wuhan – Tokyo Narita 01OCT12 – 27OCT12 2 weekly service CANCELLED



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
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