LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22057 posts, RR: 51 Posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13794 times:
Virgin Atlantic says its moving its Tokyo service from Narita to Haneda by Spring 2014 using new daytime slots.
Additionally to celebrate 25-years of service to Tokyo, VS plans to introduce new 787 equipment on the route.
With its existing ANA codeshare, VS anticipates passenger demand at HND will be improved over NRT as some 200 domestic flights become accessible to transit passengers.
virgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 411 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12775 times:
This is fantastic news for both VS & it's passengers...
As it says in the article, Haneda, Tokyo Airport is slowly increasing it's long haul network and it will be great for VS passengers that want to connect internally within Japan.
It will great timing for VS's 25th Anniversary in Tokyo and will give VS passengers a fantastic new product aswell.
TC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 336 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 12348 times:
Great news, I fly the route at least once a year. VS are getting 789's not 788's as per image in reply 2. But the international terminal at HND only has around 12 jetty gates, so en masse service migration from NRT isn't going to happen for a long while. But good that VS have stolen a march on other european carriers in being first to announce a service switch ( other than the BA dual airport service )
LondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1202 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 12038 times:
Quoting TC957 (Reply 3): But good that VS have stolen a march on other european carriers in being first to announce a service switch ( other than the BA dual airport service )
Technically speaking you are correct. But AF and LH have been smarter, in a way, by teaming up with JL and NH respectively. This means that they can offer their passengers schedules at more attractive times. Check BA's schedules with those of AF/JL and LH/NH and you'll see what I mean.
mutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 504 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 11781 times:
well I am sure the new joint business agreement between BA and JL will help improve BA competitiveness and lead to better schedule coordination and new oute opportunities once 787's come on board both carriers
And yes, what about those red engines......I am sure the options are white or white. In fact I am sure even BA's toy 787 has white not signature blue powerplants hanging down!!
virgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 411 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 11190 times:
Quoting legacyins (Reply 6): Is someone leaving a hint VS may be in the *A in the future? I might be wrong but it sure looks like the *A logo by the front door.
ha ha ha - ignore my pic - that was just something I added when I did it for a seperate post about the possibility of VS joining Star Alliance.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11956 posts, RR: 37 Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10632 times:
Quoting TC957 (Reply 3): Great news, I fly the route at least once a year. VS are getting 789's not 788's as per image in reply 2
Will they start this route with 789s, or is there a Plan B, for 346s? I thought the first ANZ deliveries had already been pushed back to 2Q14, so it seems that they might need a Plan B, if the 789s aren't ready on time?
Just one further question: how many other airlines will have rights for daylight access to HND from 2014? Presumably BA will also be able to introduce a more civilised schedule at that stage? I assume it's not just for UK carriers either - could we see KL, SK, AY or others introduce HND service too?
shanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7983 times:
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 5): I would imagine that VS will want or find a way to paint their 787 engines red - it is a major part of their livery and aircraft image....
I was at the 787 plant in Everett last week and a Boeing engineer told me QR had to really push their way through to get those engines changed from white to grey. So while it may be tough, it's surely do-able for Virgin
Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7625 times:
Must be paint thickness not colour? And if they come with a layer from factory maybe that is where the problem is, the factory only paints white colour as standard, any other colour would be non standard and cost more.. But how much could that small layer do for the total drag? Would you even be able to measure it on a 10 hour flight?
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6628 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3452 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 10): Presumably BA will also be able to introduce a more civilised schedule at that stage? I assume it's not just for UK carriers either - could we see KL, SK, AY or others introduce HND service too?
My understanding is that BA, whose service started on 19 February 2011 soon after the international terminal was opened obtained the best possible slots with the operating hours very restricted. Apart from short haul international flights to parts of the PRC, Hong Kong and South Korea services were then and still are restricted to operating between 11:00 pm and 07:00 am.
My reading of this quote from the link provided in Reply 2:
"The move follows plans by the former mainly Japanese domestic airport to develop its international terminal and make more daylight take off and landing slots available to long-haul carriers from spring 2014."
is that BA may have the opportunity to change its slots and that other European airlines may also have the opportunity of serving HND from the start of the 2014 Summer Season.
The only question is whether BA will be at an advantage or disadvantage in obtaining better slots by being an existing rather than a new operator.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22057 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3314 times:
The Haneda slots VS is getting are result of revised bilateral between UK and Japan from this last January.
Japan will allow a number of international long-haul services at HND as the airports total slot capacity increases by late 2013.
UK as the first open-skies partner of Japan in Europe also gains added Narita rights, and also beyond rights from Japan.
Not sure what BA will do.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
It isn't actually decided yet which alliance they will be joining, I do predict that VS will join Star. For the following reasons:
1. SQ owns part of VS, which could infuence the decision and benefits
2. Codeshare with NH, also helping with the benefits of being in *A
3. OW is out of the question given the situationwith BA/AA
4. The end of the codeshare with DL kinda hints that they aren't really interested in ST.
I imagine that, if they do end up joining Star Alliance, a few things will happen:
1. A few aircraft will be repainted into Star livery (a given), but the aircraft will probably be:
1. G-VHOT, the only LHR 744 that isn't in the new colors (besides VFAB, but that one is an anniversery plane so it'll probably be the last one repainted)
2. An a330 that is delivered around that time (LHR or LGW/MAN, based on time of delivery)
3. One of the LGW/MAN based 744s that aren't in the new colors yet.
4. POSSIBLY one of the a346s that has yet to be repainted
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22057 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3039 times:
In think its interesting VS is touting the ANA codeshare for this service in 2014.
Clearly they plan on relying on it for domestic Japan feed.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
anstar From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2882 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17): In think its interesting VS is touting the ANA codeshare for this service in 2014.
Clearly they plan on relying on it for domestic Japan feed.
Given ANA have been a long partner of VS and they alreqdy codeshare on the NRT-LHR route I don't think it is all that interesting - merely continuing the existing relationship.
mdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2838 times:
I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots. If and when that happens I can see all 4 carriers on this route (BA,VS,JL,NH) moving to HND for their LHR flights using 'more civilised' slots. It will be beneficial to all 4 carriers. If 2014 is the year then it will be worth the wait.
carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2772 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2676 times:
The int’l terminal at Haneda will be slightly bigger as they will build an extension to the north. It will only add seven or eight gates but they are marking off more pavement for remote stands. Also, Runway 16L/34R will be extended slightly.
Lastly, it will be interesting the timing of the VS flights. Just replacing the NRT A346 flight with a HND B789 flight will be significant capacity downgauge. If they are to codeshare and offer differing departure timing, they could still keep the NRT flight. Perhaps the schedule would look like this:
LHR-NRT VS 900 1345-0930+1 346
NRT-LHR VS 901 1130-1550 346
LHR-HND VS xxx 2200-1745+1 ???
HND-LHR VS xxx 0100-0520 ???
LHR-NRT NH 202 1935-1520+1 77W
NRT-LHR NH 201 1130-1600 77W
With the exception of NH 201 & VS 901, the departures are spread out throughout the day at both ends and much better timing than the current BA flights that operate into/out of HND.
Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 19): I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots.
I read proposals but nothing concrete. It maybe great that UK can land two daytime slots at Haneda, what about the other countries that don’t have access to HND. Call it fair or not, the Japanese Ministry of Transport is going to make friends and enemies with long-haul daytime access to HND.
They should keep banning long-haul flights during the daylight hours and keep HND a domestic and regional int'l airport.
HND does not have enough slots to provide the shift in demand from NRT.
voodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 1962 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2478 times:
Quoting shanxz (Reply 12):
I was at the 787 plant in Everett last week and a Boeing engineer told me QR had to really push their way through to get those engines changed from white to grey. So while it may be tough, it's surely do-able for Virgin
Hmm ... hadn't noticed that QR feature. At least now there is a precedent. BA images of their 787s show white, not the usual blue, nacelles so maybe BA just haven't been 'trying '(or maybe they'll end up blue in the end after all).
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22057 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2455 times:
Quoting anstar (Reply 18): Given ANA have been a long partner of VS and they alreqdy codeshare on the NRT-LHR route I don't think it is all that interesting - merely continuing the existing relationship.
Continuation of the relationship is the interesting part - provides insight to what VS sees 2-years out and again another point towards Star Alliance potentially.
Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 19):
I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots.
I honestly doubt it (and the red for VS). A thick coat of dark blue/metallic red is a significantly different story to a very pale grey (which I believe was originally an option anyway). AI has got white engines (rather than the usual red), and is exactly the sort of airline that would make a fuss about it if they could.
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