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Virgin Atlantic Tokyo Moves To Haneda; Use 787s  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26014 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16800 times:

Virgin Atlantic says its moving its Tokyo service from Narita to Haneda by Spring 2014 using new daytime slots.

Additionally to celebrate 25-years of service to Tokyo, VS plans to introduce new 787 equipment on the route.

With its existing ANA codeshare, VS anticipates passenger demand at HND will be improved over NRT as some 200 domestic flights become accessible to transit passengers.


Press release
http://www.virginatlantic.co.jp/press.php?q=1212

=

[Edited 2012-09-17 15:37:05]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTUIflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16779 times:

Fantastic news for VS passengers and will provide some tough competition on this route with the 789.


Don't just travel, travel with a smile. . .
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15783 times:

This is fantastic news for both VS & it's passengers...

As it says in the article, Haneda, Tokyo Airport is slowly increasing it's long haul network and it will be great for VS passengers that want to connect internally within Japan.

It will great timing for VS's 25th Anniversary in Tokyo and will give VS passengers a fantastic new product aswell.

There is another link here to the Travel Weekly:

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...in+makes+tokyo+airport+switch.html

Big version: Width: 954 Height: 308 File size: 53kb


[Edited 2012-09-18 03:26:07]


Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15356 times:

Great news, I fly the route at least once a year. VS are getting 789's not 788's as per image in reply 2. But the international terminal at HND only has around 12 jetty gates, so en masse service migration from NRT isn't going to happen for a long while. But good that VS have stolen a march on other european carriers in being first to announce a service switch ( other than the BA dual airport service )

User currently offlineCOEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 338 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15318 times:

VS will actually paint their 787 engines red? I thought they had to be the original white to get best performance, no?

User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15265 times:

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 4):
VS will actually paint their 787 engines red? I thought they had to be the original white to get best performance, no?

I would imagine that VS will want or find a way to paint their 787 engines red - it is a major part of their livery and aircraft image....



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15148 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 2):

Is someone leaving a hint VS may be in the *A in the future? I might be wrong but it sure looks like the *A logo by the front door.  



John@SFO
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15046 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
But good that VS have stolen a march on other european carriers in being first to announce a service switch ( other than the BA dual airport service )

Technically speaking you are correct. But AF and LH have been smarter, in a way, by teaming up with JL and NH respectively. This means that they can offer their passengers schedules at more attractive times. Check BA's schedules with those of AF/JL and LH/NH and you'll see what I mean.


User currently offlinemutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14789 times:

well I am sure the new joint business agreement between BA and JL will help improve BA competitiveness and lead to better schedule coordination and new oute opportunities once 787's come on board both carriers

And yes, what about those red engines......I am sure the options are white or white. In fact I am sure even BA's toy 787 has white not signature blue powerplants hanging down!!


User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14198 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
Is someone leaving a hint VS may be in the *A in the future? I might be wrong but it sure looks like the *A logo by the front door.

ha ha ha - ignore my pic - that was just something I added when I did it for a seperate post about the possibility of VS joining Star Alliance.  



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12564 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13640 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Great news, I fly the route at least once a year. VS are getting 789's not 788's as per image in reply 2

Will they start this route with 789s, or is there a Plan B, for 346s? I thought the first ANZ deliveries had already been pushed back to 2Q14, so it seems that they might need a Plan B, if the 789s aren't ready on time?

Just one further question: how many other airlines will have rights for daylight access to HND from 2014? Presumably BA will also be able to introduce a more civilised schedule at that stage? I assume it's not just for UK carriers either - could we see KL, SK, AY or others introduce HND service too?


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1903 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12657 times:

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 4):
VS will actually paint their 787 engines red? I thought they had to be the original white to get best performance, no?

I believe Boeing people said the nacelle has to have single colour paint to maximize the laminar flow. It doesn't have to be white or gray.

I VS wants to paint them red, I say go ahead and do it!



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineshanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 5):
I would imagine that VS will want or find a way to paint their 787 engines red - it is a major part of their livery and aircraft image....

I was at the 787 plant in Everett last week and a Boeing engineer told me QR had to really push their way through to get those engines changed from white to grey. So while it may be tough, it's surely do-able for Virgin



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

Must be paint thickness not colour? And if they come with a layer from factory maybe that is where the problem is, the factory only paints white colour as standard, any other colour would be non standard and cost more.. But how much could that small layer do for the total drag? Would you even be able to measure it on a 10 hour flight?

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7681 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
Presumably BA will also be able to introduce a more civilised schedule at that stage? I assume it's not just for UK carriers either - could we see KL, SK, AY or others introduce HND service too?

My understanding is that BA, whose service started on 19 February 2011 soon after the international terminal was opened obtained the best possible slots with the operating hours very restricted. Apart from short haul international flights to parts of the PRC, Hong Kong and South Korea services were then and still are restricted to operating between 11:00 pm and 07:00 am.

My reading of this quote from the link provided in Reply 2:

"The move follows plans by the former mainly Japanese domestic airport to develop its international terminal and make more daylight take off and landing slots available to long-haul carriers from spring 2014."

is that BA may have the opportunity to change its slots and that other European airlines may also have the opportunity of serving HND from the start of the 2014 Summer Season.

The only question is whether BA will be at an advantage or disadvantage in obtaining better slots by being an existing rather than a new operator.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26014 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

The Haneda slots VS is getting are result of revised bilateral between UK and Japan from this last January.
Japan will allow a number of international long-haul services at HND as the airports total slot capacity increases by late 2013.

UK as the first open-skies partner of Japan in Europe also gains added Narita rights, and also beyond rights from Japan.

Not sure what BA will do.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 9):

It isn't actually decided yet which alliance they will be joining, I do predict that VS will join Star. For the following reasons:

1. SQ owns part of VS, which could infuence the decision and benefits
2. Codeshare with NH, also helping with the benefits of being in *A
3. OW is out of the question given the situationwith BA/AA
4. The end of the codeshare with DL kinda hints that they aren't really interested in ST.

I imagine that, if they do end up joining Star Alliance, a few things will happen:

1. A few aircraft will be repainted into Star livery (a given), but the aircraft will probably be:

1. G-VHOT, the only LHR 744 that isn't in the new colors (besides VFAB, but that one is an anniversery plane so it'll probably be the last one repainted)
2. An a330 that is delivered around that time (LHR or LGW/MAN, based on time of delivery)
3. One of the LGW/MAN based 744s that aren't in the new colors yet.
4. POSSIBLY one of the a346s that has yet to be repainted

But, that's just my   


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26014 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

In think its interesting VS is touting the ANA codeshare for this service in 2014.
Clearly they plan on relying on it for domestic Japan feed.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5890 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
In think its interesting VS is touting the ANA codeshare for this service in 2014.
Clearly they plan on relying on it for domestic Japan feed.

Given ANA have been a long partner of VS and they alreqdy codeshare on the NRT-LHR route I don't think it is all that interesting - merely continuing the existing relationship.


User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots. If and when that happens I can see all 4 carriers on this route (BA,VS,JL,NH) moving to HND for their LHR flights using 'more civilised' slots. It will be beneficial to all 4 carriers. If 2014 is the year then it will be worth the wait.

User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

The int’l terminal at Haneda will be slightly bigger as they will build an extension to the north. It will only add seven or eight gates but they are marking off more pavement for remote stands. Also, Runway 16L/34R will be extended slightly.

Lastly, it will be interesting the timing of the VS flights. Just replacing the NRT A346 flight with a HND B789 flight will be significant capacity downgauge. If they are to codeshare and offer differing departure timing, they could still keep the NRT flight. Perhaps the schedule would look like this:
LHR-NRT VS 900 1345-0930+1 346
NRT-LHR VS 901 1130-1550 346
LHR-HND VS xxx 2200-1745+1 ???
HND-LHR VS xxx 0100-0520 ???
LHR-NRT NH 202 1935-1520+1 77W
NRT-LHR NH 201 1130-1600 77W

With the exception of NH 201 & VS 901, the departures are spread out throughout the day at both ends and much better timing than the current BA flights that operate into/out of HND.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 19):
I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots.

I read proposals but nothing concrete. It maybe great that UK can land two daytime slots at Haneda, what about the other countries that don’t have access to HND. Call it fair or not, the Japanese Ministry of Transport is going to make friends and enemies with long-haul daytime access to HND.
They should keep banning long-haul flights during the daylight hours and keep HND a domestic and regional int'l airport.
HND does not have enough slots to provide the shift in demand from NRT.


User currently offlinevoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

Quoting shanxz (Reply 12):

I was at the 787 plant in Everett last week and a Boeing engineer told me QR had to really push their way through to get those engines changed from white to grey. So while it may be tough, it's surely do-able for Virgin

Hmm ... hadn't noticed that QR feature. At least now there is a precedent. BA images of their 787s show white, not the usual blue, nacelles so maybe BA just haven't been 'trying '(or maybe they'll end up blue in the end after all).



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4743 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

Shame to see them downgrade this route.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26014 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 18):
Given ANA have been a long partner of VS and they alreqdy codeshare on the NRT-LHR route I don't think it is all that interesting - merely continuing the existing relationship.

Continuation of the relationship is the interesting part - provides insight to what VS sees 2-years out and again another point towards Star Alliance potentially.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 19):

I have yet to read from anywhere on the news in Japan that the Japan government is going to allow non Far East destinations to be served from HND using the normal daytime slots.

Here is agreement with UK
http://en.airportnews.jp/headline/510/

France
http://en.airportnews.jp/headline/567/

There are others like NZ for example also.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

Quoting voodoo (Reply 21):

I honestly doubt it (and the red for VS). A thick coat of dark blue/metallic red is a significantly different story to a very pale grey (which I believe was originally an option anyway). AI has got white engines (rather than the usual red), and is exactly the sort of airline that would make a fuss about it if they could.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7681 posts, RR: 17
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

The standard BA livery is dark blue engines.

However all high-wing aircraft flown by British Airways or a BA subsidiary have been painted with white engines:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © N94504
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tibor Mester



So the solution is simple. After delivery BA can cut off the 787's wings and stick them back onto the top of its fuselage. Then white's alright!


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