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BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route  
User currently offlineGEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 183 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20647 times:

British Airways says it remains committed to the Australian market, despite speculation it may cut its remaining daily flight once its partnership with Qantas is dissolved.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...route/story-e6frg95x-1226476087724

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7210 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20656 times:

Well that'l kill the other thread.


Question....how many BA flights to the land down under are there per day? Where do those have to connect? SIN?

What's the load factors on these? If you're doing SYD to LHR it sounds like one helluva day of flying   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20639 times:

The other thread was mine but Im still delighted by the news! lol


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20472 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
If you're doing SYD to LHR it sounds like one helluva day of flying

23>24 if you go straight through long flight but i love it.
Good to see BA stay on the run and hopefuklly they keep it a 744 , still nice to have the singapore option on OW

mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20470 times:

Playing devil's advocate and reading between the lines... sure, BA is commited to the Australian market and will continue to fly there, but does that necessarily mean using their own metal?

User currently offlineA36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20193 times:

It's good to see them stay. Just hope it's BA itself and not a CX code share (no offense to CX). Though if that did happen, would CX bring their 77W in place of A330's to SYD? Suppose they might go to the 744???  

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19854 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

Daily B744 LHR-SIN-SYD...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5315 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19799 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 4):
Playing devil's advocate and reading between the lines... sure, BA is commited to the Australian market and will continue to fly there, but does that necessarily mean using their own metal?

  

Quoting A36001 (Reply 5):
Though if that did happen, would CX bring their 77W in place of A330's to SYD? Suppose they might go to the 744???

CX 744s are done. The future at CX is the 77W in the near term and the A350-1000 in the longer term.


User currently onlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19530 times:
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Well, that's good news! I know we certainly won't ever go to SYD via DXB. Certainly not as a first choice, anyway.

Looks like BA will win our business in future then.

But what happens if I book with BA and want to go to, say, BNE or ADL? Fly BA to SYD then transfer to QF domestic?


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19398 times:

I think ADL-SIN will not last as a 3pw A333 on QF. Could possibly go 738 but more likely to be cut. Other cities I expect you would be able to use QF from SIN.

User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19304 times:

I have seen these statements before only for that to change not too long down the track. The very nature of aviation should make that quite obvious that things move very quickly.

I can see them staying for a while, but if they do end up making a deal with MH, then that could well be their chance to make an exit with their own metal.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19098 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
I know we certainly won't ever go to SYD via DXB. Certainly not as a first choice, anyway.

No idea what's the issue flying via DXB? The routing is shorter than flying via SIN...

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
But what happens if I book with BA and want to go to, say, BNE or ADL? Fly BA to SYD then transfer to QF domestic?

Hit the nail in the head...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 18942 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):
No idea what's the issue flying via DXB? The routing is shorter than flying via SIN...

Not true. SYD-LHR non-stop is 9188nm, SYD-SIN-LHR is 9274nm and SYD-DXB-LHR 9473nm.

There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3174 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 18723 times:

Nice to read that BA will continue to serve Sydney for the short term.

I can see BA will stick around until the end of October, the finish of the northern schedule.

Ask this question again in 2 years it will be a different story.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2360 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 18609 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting mal787 (Reply 3):
Good to see BA stay on the run and hopefuklly they keep it a 744
Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Daily B744 LHR-SIN-SYD...

Would be nice if it becomes an A380.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18522 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
Not true. SYD-LHR non-stop is 9188nm, SYD-SIN-LHR is 9274nm and SYD-DXB-LHR 9473nm.

Probably a direct route would be shorter but your right with the DXB route adding an extra 199nm...

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

Possibly the reason to not fly via DXB... Must admit I haven't been a big fan of the rapid expansion until QF jumped into bed with EK 
Quoting je89_w (Reply 14):
Would be nice if it becomes an A380.

Wishful thinking isn't it but I believe we will see the A380 in SIN considering QF plan on increasing their presence in Asia...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18460 times:

Quoting BNE (Reply 13):
Nice to read that BA will continue to serve Sydney for the short term.

I can see BA will stick around until the end of October, the finish of the northern schedule.

Ask this question again in 2 years it will be a different story.

Their Joint Venture with QF means they need to at least continue serving SYD until the end of March 2013.

After that is anyone's idea.

Whether they will keep the flight as it is via SIN, axe it, go via KUL or HKG is anyone's guess.

With the loss of capacity on SIN-LHR, I would personally be somewhat surprised to see SIN-SYD continue on BA metal, if BA does not increase SIN-LHR to 3x daily.


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 916 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18391 times:

Is it me? I have just read the OP's referenced article and my take on it is that BA will not be flying Kangaroo Route in the medium term (read Mar 2013).

Quoting runway23 (Reply 16):
With the loss of capacity on SIN-LHR, I would personally be somewhat surprised to see SIN-SYD continue on BA metal, if BA does not increase SIN-LHR to 3x daily.

  
Kangaroo Route will still exist, but with "Kangaroos of different colours".

[Edited 2012-09-18 03:19:34]


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18182 times:

It's difficult to be committed to the whole Australian market if you just operate one flight a day LHR-SIN-SYD. BA will need to find a pertner to serve the other state capitals through an Asian port, whether that is CX through HKG or MH through KUL. I'm sure BA will keep QF codeshares on key flights into Australia from MEL, SYD, BNE, ADL and PER, but it needs a partner in Asia now that the deal with QF is coming to an end.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3199 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17913 times:

BA is now only really serving Sydney, on a point to point basis. Europe - DXB - non Sydney Australian city is much easier with Emirates. The connecting traffic is being diluted as the BA option is more hassle and longer, it depends if there's enough traffic on P2P to make it work with a B744. If they were serious then we might see MEL return, if not, I doubt SYD will be long for the route map.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 17770 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 18):
It's difficult to be committed to the whole Australian market if you just operate one flight a day LHR-SIN-SYD. BA will need to find a pertner to serve the other state capitals through an Asian port, whether that is CX through HKG or MH through KUL. I'm sure BA will keep QF codeshares on key flights into Australia from MEL, SYD, BNE, ADL and PER, but it needs a partner in Asia now that the deal with QF is coming to an end.

That partner could still easily be a codeshare on SIN-SYD with QF. Just like it could be a mix of QF, MH and CX.

That said, running a daily flight from SIN to SYD seems to currently be unprofitable or marginally profitable, with QF.

Take away QF and BA now have to set-up their marketing in SYD, brand their own product. Can no longer look after QF for selling their flights.

It seems like a lot of trouble for a single daily operation. A codeshare on the otherhand costs virtually nothing and is added profit.

However, who knows what will happen. Serving Australia still has a lot of prestige to it and axing SYD would mean giving VS a few minutes of fame in the news. Branson could then once again bash BA for not doing a good job and all the other bs he likes to spread.

Difficult decisions for BA.


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 17588 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
If they were serious then we might see MEL return, if not, I doubt SYD will be long for the route map.

I would love to see them back here in MEL, but that will not happen. They brought back MEL a second time with the LHR/SIN/MEL flight but dropped MEL again and just ran the 2 flights a day to SYD while QF picked up the BA pax from Singapore for the rest of Australia. BA has a very long history with SYD. If in the future BA uses MH for the rest of Australia does that mean that BA will start serving KUL again?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8285 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17082 times:
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Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 21):
I would love to see them back here in MEL, but that will not happen. They brought back MEL a second time with the LHR/SIN/MEL flight but dropped MEL again and just ran the 2 flights a day to SYD while QF picked up the BA pax from Singapore for the rest of Australia. BA has a very long history with SYD. If in the future BA uses MH for the rest of Australia does that mean that BA will start serving KUL again?

When OneWorld welcomes Malaysia Air, BA will probably fly to KL just for the connections to Australia. KL would offer BA what Qantas in SIN offers them now. BA could always continue to connect with QF in SIN or Cathay in HKG. While the loss of the formal Qantas arrangement stings for BA it affords it up options for its Australian connections. In one way BA has a very nice problem with all these choices.


User currently onlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 16952 times:
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Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

Partially, yes.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 15):
Possibly the reason to not fly via DXB... Must admit I haven't been a big fan of the rapid expansion until QF jumped into bed with EK

I don't want to book a QF ticket and end up on a EK plane. I fly EK to India for business once or twice a year as their connections to India are better than BA's. However, I find the experience inconsistent, both from a service perspective and hardware perspective. Am I going to get a flat bed on this flight or a cramped recliner? I never know until I am on board. At least with BA I know what I am going to get.

I find the interiors of EK aircraft to be of extremely questionable taste, but I accept that this is purely subjective. I can say, however, with 100% certainty that for me, the thought of staring at all that faux wood and gold for 22 hours straight makes my stomach churn.

I don't enjoy Dubai airport particularly. It can be a long, long walk from the lounge to the gate. The lounge offers no short-term stowage for cabin luggage. Niggles? Certainly, but when it's my money I'm spending the sum of these mean I'll choose to spend it elsewhere.


User currently offlinemutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 16533 times:

Yes I think BA could make this a winning startegy actually with a bit of careful thought.

Firstly remember it is ONLY the JBA being scrapped. As fellow OW members BA and QF will I am sure continue to codehsare on cerrain routes at either end of the kangeroo (EK has what 23 european destinations ex DXB so BA will still be as (in)convenient as EK for some ultimate european routings)

So you can fly to SYD via SIN with BA and on with QF
You could fly to SYD and elsewhere via KUL on MAS (perhaps even on BA metal to KUL)
You can fly to HKG with BA and on to Oz and NZ with CX
You can fly to NRT with BA and on with JL to OZ and NZ

The variety of options is attactive

And dont dismiss the DXB routing proving less than popular for some....For the Brits DXB has been largely done, its old news, for the aussies its a new horizon for a stop over but not much stimulus and once enough people get jailed for kissing or holding hands in public, the attraction wears off (I sort of jest but actually of course young people are arrested regularly for such behaviour that it isnt entirely a joke _ and I am a fan of DXB and respect local customs wherever I go).

So I suspect the SIN/SYD routing will continue to do at least OK


25 Post contains images EK413 : From my understanding EKs product are not consistent due to the aggressive growth... Quantity versus quality you could say... JSA not JBA... Joint Se
26 kaitak744 : Wow there.... not so fast. CX 744s are not done. They still have roughly 20 of them, and they are in the process of upgrading the cabins. There will
27 cedars747 : What a good news.The Kangaroo route is a myth and should never end. By the way I guess BEY was a stop in that route !?
28 bastew : I was thinking exactly the same thing ETA.
29 RJA321 : I don't understand why some people here are displaying subtle hostility towards EK and DXB. Why should it be EK's fault if national airlines in Europe
30 Post contains images lightsaber : DXB has adapted to 'Western Expectations' better than the regional (including India) competition. I suspect they will continue to adapt. For LHR-SYD,
31 seabosdca : A bit OT, but I'm not convinced of this in the current economic environment, especially after the latest 77W order by CX. I think unless there is an
32 n729pa : You can also book QF LHR-SYD via JFK (BA LHR-JFK) then JFK-SYD also connects to MEL/BNE too in LAX if you so want. Sometimes the fares a bit higher so
33 CambridgeFlyer1 : I must agree with 'vhtje'. Flying through SIN is far less hassle than DXB, plus T3 in DXB is over crowded as it is. Imagine when theres 'X' amount mor
34 VC10DC10 : This: It does, in fact, make Dubai much less attractive to me.
35 Post contains images RJA321 : If your concern is whether or not you will be allowed to hold hands and kiss in public when visiting other cultures, then clearly you are not traveli
36 gilesdavies : Just an idea, but could BA add on extension to the LHR-SYD route and for them to fly on to Auckland? Just wondering if that would enable BA to fill a
37 oykie : I know it will not happen, but it would have been impressive if BA bought the 77L now to be able to fly nonstop. They may do when the eventually gets
38 RyanairGuru : Unfortunately not... it's 3 hours east bound and 3.5 westbound. I guess it is theoretically possible, after all EK is 2 stops to AKL and 3 to CHC. No
39 fcogafa : Several people I have discussed DXB-OZ with are put off by the 16 odd hour second flight. I think many prefer to get the longest leg over with first,
40 spud757 : Would be good to see BA work closely with MH at KUL to handle the kangaroo connections. Whether this is on BA metal to KUL who knows. Why not turn SIN
41 Post contains images EK413 : I wouldn't have made the comments if I didn't have first hand experience in DXB... If the UAE wanna be a far more attractive holiday destination... S
42 Viscount724 : Comparison of nonstop LHR-SYD with one-stop connecting routings via Asia/Gulf points (shortest to longest). These assume great circle mileage. Actual
43 qf002 : Obviously BA is concerned about being left behind after QF has moved to DXB. The media here has been using words like 'dumped' to describe BA's positi
44 Lufthansa : yes it does, and it also has US-Australia rights! haven't been used in a very long time but it was an old BOAC route and until NZ pulled out of AKL i
45 seansasLCY : I'm very Eurosceptic but I can safely say the UK is part of Europe. I think this could be a good move for BA. I don't understand why BA don't sell Au
46 thegeek : I think that DFW-AKL would be a great route, if you look at the success of SYD-DFW! The question is would anything prevent AA from flying it after it
47 bastew : We used to do a BNE tag many years ago and our pax figures SYD-BNE-SYD were often in the double digits on a jumbo.....and this was before the likes o
48 EK413 : Take it you don't catch onto sarcasm very well... Interesting to see the HKG sector is by far the shortest by 1nm opposed to a direct LHR-SYD sector.
49 weebie : BA will never cut Sydney. It's Like QF flying to NY. BA can't cut a route to a city which is essentially it's greatest achievement in the monarchy.
50 Post contains links EK413 : Since my words are so disturbing please follow the link and have a read... QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2 (by YankeesFan Sep 7 20
51 qf002 : If they really wanted to shake the market up, they should fly heavily premium configured 787's on LHR-PER-SYD. It's Y that makes the kangaroo route su
52 aviasian : Since Qantas could codeshare with airlines outside of the oneworld alliance in providing a service between Australia and Paris-CDG, what's to say that
53 AeroWesty : BA used to have rights from the US to Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and some points beyond in the days when the Bermuda agreements were in effect. I ju
54 EK413 : Isn't there a deal done and dusted with SQ & VA... EK413
55 qf002 : I'm not sure that SQ would be interested in playing nice with such a big competitor, not to mention the fact they own a substantial chunk of VS (who
56 Stratacruiser : Would be somewhat surprised if those rights still exist. Pretty sure the last BA flight to use them was a 5x weekly LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-NAD-SYD VC10 that
57 FlyCaledonian : I'd be interested to know what rights BA has through the Middle East to Australia. If I recall, the UK-Australia bilateral allows each side to operat
58 Viscount724 : Flights ending doesn't mean the rights end. It's very rare for a government to voluntarily give up traffic rights that it's negotated. I am willing t
59 skipness1E : You're thinking of BOAC, if it loses enough money it will go. They closed all regional flying, outsourced all ground handling outside of London, dump
60 Viscount724 : QF dropped NY in 1973 and only returned 26 years later in 1999.
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