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AF To Revamp 777s To Compete With Gulf Carriers  
User currently onlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1030 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 29001 times:
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I still say European, Canadian, U.S and Australian airlines' biggest problem is they are constrained by unions and contracts where the Gulf carriers are NOT.. But this is a first good step


"Troubled carrier Air France plans to refurbish its entire fleet of long-haul Boeing 777s in a bid to respond to the competitive threat, and perceived higher quality service, of Gulf and Asian airlines."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...compete-with-gulf-carriers-376622/

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 28974 times:
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4 class 777-300ER seem to be the exclusive domain of Asian airline like JAL and Cathay. Since this is Europes first upgrade to "compete" with Gulf airlines I can't wait to see what French Elegance at a Gulf airline level looks like. Good luck to AF.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 28961 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
"Troubled carrier Air France plans to refurbish its entire fleet of long-haul Boeing 777s in a bid to respond to the competitive threat, and perceived higher quality service, of Gulf and Asian airlines."

They're chasing after the wrong thing, but good luck.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 28481 times:
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For a start, AF can go back to the original tan and red color scheme of La Première as I am not a fan of the new grey scheme.



Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
4 class 777-300ER seem to be the exclusive domain of Asian airline like JAL and Cathay.

AF does have a four-class configuration on some of their 777-200ERs and 777-300ERs and their new A380-800s are being delivered with four classes (with the earlier frames being retrofitted to that configuration).


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 28427 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
I still say European, Canadian, U.S and Australian airlines' biggest problem is they are constrained by unions and contracts where the Gulf carriers are NOT..

  

And unless they do something about what is described above, every other attempt is a nice try but eventually pointless in my opinion.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 28175 times:

Don't they have a few more 300-ER's on order?? Maybe they can have those redesigned with the new layouts in mind.

User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 28147 times:

Maybe they'll finally drop the terrible 3x4x3 layout in economy, although I doubt it given that Emirates uses the same configuration. On the other hand, maybe they could improve the legroom to be competitive with Emirates.

Business class is another matter - terrible and outdated seats (same situation on KL). Hopefully this is a focus area for both airlines.


User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4029 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 28085 times:

I've flown AF many times and it's clear their problems are NOT their cabins or service. Their competitive issues lie with costs associated with inefficiency. Oh and I'm so happy I finally got to recently fly in a 3x4x3 cabin to see what all the hype was about. As I suspected, it's just that! I found the 3x4x3 configuration just as comfortable. The seats didn't seem any more narrow, the pitch was generous and since I didn't spend much time on the 11 hour flight playing in the aisles, the more narrow aisle was no big deal.

If AF thinks they'll see ROI with this refurbishing initiative, wonderful. But from the customer perspective, IMO, it's a waste of money.

[Edited 2012-09-18 11:25:49]

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5301 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 28058 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 4):
And unless they do something about what is described above, every other attempt is a nice try but eventually pointless in my opinion.

We can only hope Unions will be finally banned or at least severely restricted in damaging the companies and travellers.


User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 27999 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 8):
We can only hope Unions will be finally banned or at least severely restricted in damaging the companies and travellers.

Such a short-sighted comment to make with nothing to back up the claim that unions-at-large "damage companies and travellers"...care to put some meat on that hollow statement next time?


User currently onlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1030 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 27884 times:
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Quoting kl911 (Reply 8):
We can only hope Unions will be finally banned or at least severely restricted in damaging the companies and travellers.

The Lufthansa flight attendant strike cost the company several million dollars.... The Gulf carriers don't have to worry about something like that. HUGE advantage


User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 27840 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 8):
We can only hope Unions will be finally banned or at least severely restricted in damaging the companies and travellers.

Totally agree, unions should be restricted when they damage the company. Theoretically, unions serve to protect the workers from their patron in a David v. Goliath kind of struggle. However, reality shows unions would rather take a company down into bankruptcy than give into some benefits (and this is not only for airlines). Not trying to get into a union vs patron discussion here (since I think unions tend to bite the hand that feeds but patrons also tend to exploit their workers), but why won´t they see that if the company as a whole gets better, their own conditions will start to improve but only keep on trying to get major benefits and drive the company down...


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 27814 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 10):
The Lufthansa flight attendant strike cost the company several million dollars.... The Gulf carriers don't have to worry about something like that. HUGE advantage

What does the union leadership say about this?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9819 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 27797 times:

AF has multiple problems, but its hard product is one of them. In my opinion AF and LH made a mistake by launching the A380 with angled flat seats. The newest generation of business class seats can be fully flat and fit the same number of seats as a traditional 60'' pitch 2x2x2 cabin. They have to get creative with use of space and sometimes have drawbacks of being slightly narrower or not forward facing, but the market is voting that passengers like herringbone, thompson, reverse direction, etc seats if they go flat.

Asian and Middle Eastern carriers have brought better hard products, and the US airlines are following. Delta is going to 100% flat business class. United is almost there. American is a disaster, but has committed to upgrading to flat business. BA has been there for a decade, but Lufthansa is finally starting to go flat. AF is falling behind.

Air France is being outmatched on virtually every route they fly. All their competitors have upped the hard product in business class. AF also doesn't have a particularly stunning F product either. Personally I don't think they should spend their money on Y because anything to keep price down is good in Y and AF already has the industry essential of PTVs.

However they also need to improve the entire company. Better maintenance, better schedule reliability, better airport infrastructure, appropriate staffing levels, cabin cleanliness, etc are all factors that matter. You can have the best hard product but that won't make you money. Just look at Air India's beautiful cabins yet it is still a disaster financially.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 27555 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 15):
In my opinion AF and LH made a mistake by launching the A380 with angled flat seats.

Doesn't KE also have angled flat seats on the A388 on J as well? I think AF is getting behind on hard product, but improving it won´t make them able to compete with gulf and asian carriers. Their problems are far from being "just" a hard product issue.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4050 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 27521 times:
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Quoting g500 (Thread starter):

although I agree, and do not support unions in any fashion, its simple governments that hold this power. Having full government backing is what is allowing these Gulf Carriers to take over. Turnover of flight attendants, keeping staff young and on the lower wage scale compared to otehr carriers also plays a MAJOR role in the balance sheet.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 27363 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 17):
its simple governments that hold this power. Having full government backing is what is allowing these Gulf Carriers to take over. Turnover of flight attendants, keeping staff young and on the lower wage scale compared to otehr carriers also plays a MAJOR role in the balance sheet.

   Flat beds aren't going to fix this.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 27214 times:
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Quoting falkerker (Reply 16):
Doesn't KE also have angled flat seats on the A388 on J as well?

The seats in Prestige Class on the A380-800 are lie-flat.

[Edited 2012-09-18 13:23:56 by srbmod]

User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 26622 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):

However they also need to improve the entire company. Better maintenance, better schedule reliability, better airport infrastructure, appropriate staffing levels, cabin cleanliness, etc are all factors that matter. You can have the best hard product but that won't make you money. Just look at Air India's beautiful cabins yet it is still a disaster financially.

For an AF employee it's always interesting (hard sometimes) to read what type of complaints customers make about the product. Even though it doesn't make me really happy as you may imagine, I must admit that every thing you pointed out in your post is correct, sadly.

Just a small correction, CDG and ORY airports infrastructure are designed and managed by ADP (state owned), a different (and monopoly) company than AF. Unfortunately, AF cannot really put the pressure on ADP to get an airport 100% designed to match their needs...

What for you, and other people reading this thread obviously, is the biggest point to improve about Air France?

(and please don't say "France"   )



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 26613 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 6):
Business class is another matter - terrible and outdated seats (same situation on KL). Hopefully this is a focus area for both airlines.

But KL has already announced a major business class upgrade which will include the introduction of fully lie-flat seats. So it meant AF had to follow otherwise passengers would question why one partner had the better product.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 26156 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
4 class 777-300ER seem to be the exclusive domain of Asian airline like JAL and Cathay. Since this is Europes first upgrade to "compete" with Gulf airlines I can't wait to see what French Elegance at a Gulf airline level looks like. Good luck to AF.

We might not be the most pro-European nation, but last time I checked the UK was in Europe! BA introduced a four class layout a few years back now, and I would say can compete with the Gulf carriers on service. The problem BA, however, faces is that it's located pretty much as far West in Europe as you can get, so for transfer traffic it's very hard to compete.

Interesting move by AF, and it will be interesting to see what its aircraft look like after. I suspect 3-4-3 will stay in the 777s, but perhaps with a bit better seat pitch.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13549 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 26117 times:
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I like some dismiss the Euro-carrier issues without going into why some customers prefer the mid-East airlines. IMHO, the #1 item AF must fix is the perceived treatment of non-European decent passengers.

It isn't just the seats, but those could change. Customers want the IFE, drinks, and portions served with a smile. It is also due to EK being a 'numbers run company' a la Starbucks. Read their annual reports. EK is constantly trying to cut costs. EK monitors their sales and cut flights earlier than most airlines during the 'Arab spring.' Now they are returning. Numbers run... Not by tradition or even their own culture.

As already noted, AF must pressure the airports to provide a better connecting experience. No excuses. It must be improved. Since France is in 'financial pressure,' I'm sure the government could help AF fix the issue.

Quoting airproxx (Reply 18):
What for you, and other people reading this thread obviously, is the biggest point to improve about Air France?
Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
and perceived higher quality service, of Gulf and Asian airlines.

IMHO the service on AF is fine for French speakers. What needs to be improved is service to Asian (including Indian) customers. While some are 'difficult,' they are the customer. Somehow LH and EK do a better job of bringing them in.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 6):
Maybe they'll finally drop the terrible 3x4x3 layout in economy

   Cost is a major AF issue. Crew costs are part of it. Part of it is delivering what customers want to pay for and no more (at least no more that has an expense).

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
Their competitive issues lie with costs associated with inefficiency.

   It is also customer perception. AF must become a 'numbers run company' to compete.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
I didn't spend much time on the 11 hour flight playing in the aisles, the more narrow aisle was no big deal.

You and I are different... I walk around. However, I'm not willing to pay for a wider isle, so no complaints here.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 8):
We can only hope Unions will be finally banned

Would you really want to live in a world were unions were forbidden? Not I. Oh, I'm FAR from pro-union; in many cases they do some stupid self-destructive negotiations (see AA pilots the last few days). But I support their rights to form a union and strike. I just want a right to dissolve a union too... but that is a different topic.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 19):
But KL has already announced a major business class upgrade which will include the introduction of fully lie-flat seats.

Now is AF being wise and going with thinner lie flat seats a la EK/LH (well, LH is close to lie flat...)? AF is competing in markets where the cost of J is an issue. They must stay competitive with comfort while increasing the seating density. That means flat seats, but many in a row. The reality is that CDG is not the top premium O&D market; thus they must compete with 'more discounted business class.'

I'm glad to see AF is changing. Will they change enough?


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 25843 times:
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Quoting airproxx (Reply 18):

Bonjour airproxx!!!!

I might be on of the few who doesn't find much flaw with AF.

My only complaint is to change the rules and benefits of Flying Blue back to the days of Frequence Plus. In the years past, I was flying much with AF before alliances arrived so I was usually Frequence Plus Bleu/Rouge flying mainly between IAD, JFK, EWR, LAX, LHR, MUC, NTE, CFR to Paris. And now, I am Medallion at DL. I am discovering more and more flights with DL as I feel my loyalty is appreciated. I value loyalty more over free champagne. I don't care if I have to purchase a flute of champagne onboard - really, I do not. In 2012, a glass can cost you USD15+ for example in most restaurants here in Los Angeles. So, buy on board is not an issue for me, it's simply the value of Frequent Flyer Programs.

At the end of the day, I'm not looking for freebies as I am not your typical self-entitled American. In fact, I apologize to gate agents and ticket agents on their behalf because it's so embarrassing by association. I feel terrible for the Ground Staff, btw. It just sucks to have earning schemes and benefits taken away or reduced over the years. (Since 1992). I would also like to mention I have never supported and have never stepped onboard any low-cost carrier. I refuse. I know what they've done to you at AF and to other carriers. In my opinion, I feel the people that really complain on these forums, are the ones that fly (support) Ryanair, Jetblue, Tiger, JetStar, etc.

On the positive side, I love CDG (the architecture, especially), the Christian Lacroix Uniforms are stunning, the planes are decorated so simple, yet elegant, catering is perfection, wine list is delicious, Clarins products (from the toiletries kit) does wonders for my skin (and now only use Clarins even at home), and the French Service is wonderfully unique. Oh, and I'm a sucker for foie gras!!!!!!!! Yum-O!!!!!!

Just change the Flying Blue back to the days of Frequence Plus, and I will be happier. I'm just asking for something back that was taken away from me. I don't want anything for free, I just want fairness.

When you've had First Class, it's hard to take Economy. =]

And then change the "Making The Sky The Best Place on Earth" back to "Winning the Hearts of the World." Those were really the good old days, weren't they?

I wish you much prosperity and happiness with Air France. I will always love AF forever in my heart.

Until then...

Bon Voyage!

Air Afreak =] =] =]

[Edited 2012-09-18 14:53:10]


Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 25791 times:

Yes good to see AF seek to update product.

Even with recent year changes the product is lacking. And not just in the air, but AF needs to improve on the ground. Whether is more hotel concierge style check-in for premium cleintele, to improved lounges and to offer things like free chauffaur car at destinations.

Funny part is AF has for many years complained about the likes to EK and the danger they create in the market for it, but sadly AF has not done much except watch complain.

In the mean time all these airlines from the Gulf and Asia have continued to improve product and and market them very effectively.
I have collogues in France that besides some intra-Europe travel have not been on an AF flight for years. Each time they travel for business or pleasure they have a wide variety of world class products to choose from at some very good prices.

Oh and I hope there is some product alignment with KLM also. In the past I have been very disappointed with KL, and its a bizarre situation when AF sales office tries to sell you single global service but KL and AF have different products.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 25497 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
As already noted, AF must pressure the airports to provide a better connecting experience. No excuses. It must be improved. Since France is in 'financial pressure,' I'm sure the government could help AF fix the issue.

I do share your opinion. I blame everyday the poor CDG and ORY organization, and service to customers. CDG is just a giant mess. I wish AF could put some pressure on anybody that could help bringing CDG and ORY to the level of DXB or similar. But we're in France, paradox country, and close relationships between govt officials, and company such as ADP CEOs make things go .. slow.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
IMHO the service on AF is fine for French speakers. What needs to be improved is service to Asian (including Indian) customers. While some are 'difficult,' they are the customer. Somehow LH and EK do a better job of bringing them in.

Well, to be honest, service to french customers is not always as fine as it seems too! It's been said already that AF F/A are not always handful, nice, smiley, even not always polite. People inside the airline don't want to face the truth, but I think AF service is perceived badly by customers, mainly because of doubtful behavior by F/A. Even ground staff can be rude. Again, I do share your vision. What can you say about AF staff in general?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
It is also customer perception. AF must become a 'numbers run company' to compete.

AF is in a bad financial shape, but investments are made to try to upgrade the level of service. I think aircraft cabins refurbishment is a nice move, but I agree, won't be enough though.
Efforts are made by AF employees (at least flying staff) to stick with the level of competition set by LH or BA (I don't even talk about EK which seems out of reach for the time). But I think there's a service culture we have to get in France, and at AF to reach the top again. We can put all the best in a cabin layout, if passengers have a bad experience because of a horrible F/A, it will be a failure. We know that pax are gained with a lot of efforts, and lost due to small details...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
25 Post contains images airproxx : I Air Afreak! First, thank you very much for taking your time to share what you feel goes wrong with my airline. You're not the only one complaining
26 Post contains images lightsaber : In general an excellent post. I haven't flow AF in... forever. So I go off banter at parties. In general, the experience of J class passengers who sp
27 airproxx : Haha, no problem, I though you were a frequent AF customer, but anyway, experience about AF product is good to hear, whatever it comes from you or a
28 Viscount724 : The seats are narrower, as are the armrests and the gap between the seats. You can't generate enough space to squeeze in one more seat by just reduci
29 AirAfreak : Hello and Bonjour again airproxx! =] First, thank you for your response! Your message validates how I've always felt, that the people at AF really do
30 AF185 : I think cabin refurbishment is a very wise move from AF, many people around me are praising the "emerging" airlines' hard products (GA, TK, 9W, JJ and
31 Post contains images abrelosojos : Are they also going to revamp the cabin crew that come with the 777's ? Saludos, A.
32 Lufthansa : I hate to say this but a lot of it is going to come down to costs. I welcome move, as obviously cabin hard ware is a major competitive factor (see the
33 azjubilee : Viscount - I've only been on 9 abreast 777s and didn't notice an appreciable difference in comfort when I flew a 10 abreast 777 (AF) for the first tim
34 Lufthansa : I'd have to agree. The seat is 17 Inches wide, which is the same as found on a 737, and earlier in the 707 before it which was used on long haul flig
35 icarus75 : I fly AF in Europe (I know, it is not long haul) a least twice a week and the flight staff is always really, really fine! FA smile all the time, they
36 Post contains images oykie : and of course that neither Europe nor US invest enough in infrastructure to keep up with demand.
37 Post contains images Deltal1011man : How do you ban organization? maybe they should ban free speech too. And its 100% on the union then? The company has nothing to do with it? they were
38 something : I wish people were more informed about their economic decisions and the ramifications thereof. In such a world, people like kl911 could fly their Ryan
39 jfk777 : BA has always been more innovative then Air France since BA has Virign on its back. BA also tensformed around the time of its privatizations. Lord Ki
40 carl50mq : Except for PAR/FDF, PAR/PTP and PAR/RUN, I agree with you. The worst AF performances are on these destinations (COI)!
41 Post contains images airproxx : Hello again AirAfreak! Thanks a lot for your posting and kind words! We definitely need more customers like you. My interest is to get people and AF
42 Post contains images airproxx : Cannot agree more with this part. My opinion is that we've been on a pure financial logic, seeking for cost-cutting in any way. This policy is a very
43 sq_ek_freak : Except BA was one of the pioneers of this concept! And AF is already operating as a 4 class airline. Exactly they are at a distinct competitive disad
44 RyanairGuru : I agree with both of you equally and neither of you at the same time! Something, you are absolutely right. This was something that Qantas realised ab
45 Post contains images MaverickM11 : And how did that work out for them? I think if anyone needs proof that the problem is not product, we need look no further. EK doesn't have lie flat
46 SPREE34 : As for damaging travelers, I imagine there are plenty of AA passengers willing to provide you that "meat" this week. Do you you disagree? Unions have
47 something : Luckily the situations of QF and AF are vastly different. QF went head to head with EK on the kangaroo, or falcon route. AF has at least the advantag
48 MaverickM11 : WN has been able to pay them off for years. Legacies have not been able to do that. Let's see what happens when WN no longer can pay labor to keep ca
49 jfk777 : AF is new to the Premuim economy game( its A380 were NOT deilvered with Y+), BA has had it for about 10 years. Its been speculated BA only has Y + be
50 SPREE34 : The reality that pay raises are going to get thin has already surfaced at WN. I know the days of Herb are gone, and the company spirit has been dilut
51 AirAfreak : Bonjour airproxx!!! I really appreciate all of your efforts and look forward to any updates you may have. I used to work in Customer Services so I ca
52 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : Ha! Caught red faced. Though I have to say I work these cabins day in and day out and I haven't received a complaint once about our angled flats. But
53 Post contains images lightsaber : For those Indian customers, they seem to get more of the: The main complaint is being ignored (F/As just turning a back on a simple and polite requir
54 varig md-11 : Salut airproxx Since lately I am a returning AF customer. I noticed positive changes: my last 3 flights, FA always said 'bienvenu a bord' to each pax
55 Post contains links MaverickM11 : And or today : SWA Ramp And SWA Request Mediation (by airliner371 Sep 19 2012 in Civil Aviation) Seatguru says even the 380 are angled lie-flat, but
56 Post contains images TGV : I was a very loyal AF Customer (around 250 flights, most of them Long Haul, I am Life Platinum) but have now moved my business elsewhere (mainly Luft
57 Post contains images airproxx : That's one of EK numerous strengths; no matter what they do or say now, people believe this is better anyway! I remember this one indeed Your support
58 Viscount724 : Also depends on your size. If you are smaller than average it's probably bearable, or if you have an empty seat next to you. But putting 10 people in
59 Post contains images airproxx : Bonsoir TGV, I've been following your posts on A-net for a long time! Thanks for your feedback. Your 3 points are interesting; - Flying Blue program
60 Post contains images airproxx : Or it depends on the neighbour "quality"! Travelling side by side with a nice charming girl can improve a lot your experience
61 ElPistolero : Bit surprised by some of the doom and gloom being spread on this thread. AF needs to keep upgrading its product or else it will lose to competition. T
62 airproxx : Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't accusing anybody in my post. My goal was just to point out the stiff competition AF has to face. That's it. No
63 Lufthansa : Yes and No. If we are talking customers departing and arriving in Paris then Yes. But many of AF's destinations require feed from other cities in eur
64 AF185 : Other improved services are also mentionned in this article (French only) Basically, 3 more information on top of the cabin revamp: 1. As off next win
65 ElPistolero : The comment about accusing LH on service was tongue-in-cheek (is - not serious). Suffice it to say, I don't think much of LHs service levels. In fact
66 Post contains images lightsaber : Look, I only have a small subset as California is not a big AF market. I tried my best to explain. These aren't the types who won't carry their own ba
67 Post contains images airproxx : Ah ok! My bad then... I'm not fluent enough in English language to get all the subtleties That said, I agree with you about FF program getting poorer
68 varig md-11 : Everybody is being dismissed at some points. We do get over it whether in the US, Europe or Latam. If some people are so shocked about it, they shoul
69 Post contains links ElPistolero : Or they could just go fly airlines that provide better service/service they are more comfortable with. BA has done a great job with that. As have, of
70 lightsaber : I was asked on my opinion on where AF could improve. I know a few dozen people who fly regularly from Los Angeles to India at least four times per ye
71 Post contains links imiakhtar : Whilst I haven't flown on EK since '95, I would consider the IFE offering on EU airlines in Y to range from poor to adequate, with AF being amongst th
72 airproxx : Funny but his tends to contradict some of us (including me!) who believe that all efforts made to improve a cabin with entertainment upgrades are vai
73 kiramakora : You are wasting your time. Certain members who are commenting here have a tremendous reputation of being biased. If you do a read of all their commen
74 Post contains images lightsaber : Agreed! Keep the drunk next to me pacified! Point taken. Let's say I was getting to your conclusion. Let me end that I want AF to improve. Improve as
75 varig md-11 : You can change name/country many times, you write the same sentences Like YOU are not biased..... adios
76 TeamInTheSky : Hi all, I just got off a 777 from CDG to SIN yesterday. The plane was 100% full, so definitely a little bit of a squeeze in Y. After reading this thre
77 goldorak : Interesting thread and comments. As a very frequent AF traveller, I'd like to add my comments and opinion about AF. I'm flying in all cabins from P to
78 Post contains images flpuck6 : Bonjour everyone, Before everyone jumps on goldorak regarding Mr. De Juniac's statement, I was at the same place, same time when Mr. De Juniac confir
79 Post contains images goldorak : Damned ! I'm discovered
80 something : My computer is from a Korean computer made in Czech Republic. I'm sure some of the components were made in China, but that isn't because I wanted it
81 Post contains images goldorak : I think you meant "PARESSEUX" (lazy)
82 ElPistolero : Well, firstly, that makes you a hypocrite. If you're going to preach protectionism, practice what you preach. Secondly, I m not sure how outsourcing
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