LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Posted (8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 23124 times:
A while back we heard stories the airline continued to lose money in BKK, but now it appears it will be cutting the route entirely effective with the summer 2013 schedule.
Last CPH-BKK flight operates on April 7th after continual service to the Thai capital since 1949.
Aircraft from the cancelled route will be used to launch SFO next April.
SAS blames the routes leisure orientation and highly competitive market place for the cut.
Interesting to note BKK was SAS first Far-East destination, and SAS was instrumental in the creation of Thai Airways, which even shared the SAS livery for many years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
HELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 643 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 22853 times:
Not good news for the Nordic passengers, less choices. Good news for the Gulf carries flying to CPH especially. Finnair must be pleased, they still fly 2x daily to BKK in winter season, daily in summer.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 885 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 22787 times:
According to check-in.dk SAS will only seasonally close the route to BKK as traffic to Asia in the summer months are weaker. Instead they will focus on North America in the summer season.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 22441 times:
Times are certainly tough in the industry.
I guess with everyone and their brother selling Europe-BKK tickets, a high cost operation like SAS struggles. Look even AF has to juggle its BKK ops and recently LH mentioned it was having issues.
But good timing for Norwegian. They can add a BKK-CPH link also now.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1550 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 22351 times:
I rather fly Thai from ARN than ARN-CPH-BKK with SAS and the 744s fly a bit faster than the A340s.. SAS has an idiotic routing IMO and probably lose a bit by this too.
Nevertheless the fact that SAS cannot survive all year round on such a popular route suggests that it cannot compete with its high cost structure. It's up against TG out of Oslo/Stockholm/Copenhagen and, of course, the emerging Gulf airlines who are now tapping the Scandinavian market.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): I guess with everyone and their brother selling Europe-BKK tickets, a high cost operation like SAS struggles. Look even AF has to juggle its BKK ops and recently LH mentioned it was having issues.
AF converted its CDG-BKK service into a leisure route using a high density 77W. Air Berlin axed its TXL-BKK service and now feeds its BKK passengers onto EY at AUH. You are correct about LH which said publicly several months ago that it was reviewing the future of its BKK service.
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21781 times:
I was sad to see this announcement as well, but...
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 6):
The news story appears to have been changed to reflect the fact that SAS is converting a year-round service to a seasonal operation.
...this piece of news softens the blow a bit.
I remember reading about the daily 767 that SK operated into BKK back when I used to collect the UA timetables as a kid growing up in the 90's.
It appears that SK operates roughly one third of the market share on CPHBKK while TG controls the other two thirds.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2080 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21749 times:
Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y? The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?
They would have to dedicate 2-3 aircraft for this, but it might be worth it?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21677 times:
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 6): The news story appears to have been changed to reflect the fact that SAS is converting a year-round service to a seasonal operation.
Thanks for that, but I do wonder if its more meant to simply buy time for SAS to figure out what to do.
I saw a news story that said BKK has been unprofitable for SAS for over 7-years now.
Anyhow here is a bit more detail on the routes poor performance --
"Copenhagen – Bangkok is a route with a decidedly lower share of business travelers compared to other travelers, when seen in comparison with most other destinations. During the summer months in particular, profitability is higher on the North American destinations than on the Bangkok-route," Simon Pauck Hansen, VP Partners & Intercontinental Network with SAS, explains.
Essentially SAS can take that A340 and go do something with it that produces a better return.
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8): Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y?
I'm not sure SAS wants to create a sub-fleet, but the market is indeed a heavily leisure one. I see Air France now uses its 472 seat 77W COI version with mere 14 business class seats to BKK now.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
LondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21621 times:
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7): It appears that SK operates roughly one third of the market share on CPHBKK while TG controls the other two thirds.
I presume you are referring to non-stop/direct flight traffic ? I ask, because there are many indirect carriers who tap the Scandinavian market for transfer traffic. Examples include: AF, AY, BA, KL, LH and LX besides Gulf carriers such as EK and QR. Most passengers flying to BKK are on leisure trips so they are happy to change planes if it means a lower price for their ticket.
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8): The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?
This is the approach adopted by AF ex-CDG. Before this summer it operated a daily B777-200 service with 35 business and 250 economy seats. But starting last May, AF converted the route into a three times a week service operated by a B77W which is configured with 14 business and a whopping 458 seats in economy class (configured 10-abreast).
It meant the nunmber of business class seats offered by AF on CDG-BKK dropped from 35 a day to 42 a week.
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y? The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?
They would have to dedicate 2-3 aircraft for this, but it might be worth it?
That would detract from the flexibility of their long haul fleet if they needed to swap out aircraft due to tech or another issue. And if the A/C was full in Business and Extra, that'd be 40 sum people you'd have to down grade if you did use the BKK aircraft on another route.. which would be a customer service nightmare for many!
WROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 20942 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): SAS blames the routes leisure orientation and highly competitive market place for the cut.
You mean all those men flying to 'play golf' in BKK do not want to pay premium bucks for their tickets?
I think that part of the problem is that SAS has a mediocre service and cannot compete with Thai, Qatar or Emirates.
lawair From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 186 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 5 days ago) and read 19200 times:
Besides the Gulf carrier competition, TG is also gaining some traction with its nonstop ARN/CPH-HKT flights, which I imagine could hurt the SK flight somewhat. It also means TG is adding a couple more flights a week from BKK to CPH/ARN for the return trip.
Lack of service is a major part of the problem. I always end up talking to older couples flying. More and more are starting to realise that SAS isn't the only carrier in the world. And I mean dumb tourists/1-2yearly asia-flyers with no membership to any alliance. They all say Thai, Turkish and Singapore if we end up talking service. I myself, although not willing to pay 3000GBP for Business Class, am willing to pay for Comfort on KLM, as it is cheap, with little, but enough changes to make you sit better. On SAS, the premium seats are ridiculously overprized, for what they offer. On TK, the food is business standard in Comfort, plus fair prices (don't get started on TK wages being low) SAS premium is sometimes DOUBLE the TK price, with no upsides, besides maybe the smile that most SAS-crew are still able to give, where some TK FA's are like "-.-". Recently ordered 3 longhaulflights to Asia. All on TK. Routing that SAS didn't have or only offered bad codeshares on. Danes are tourist-like, but at least they now know that Singapore and Thai are airlines to go to for service. KLM being in AAL now too, makes it even harder for SAS. I spoke with an SAS worker in AAL, and she said they could see the change Clearly. Alot of longhaul disappearing to AMS.
SAS never having the bloody routes themselves, mean you have to get to Munich or Frankfurt. Munich is ok, but Frankfurt is a nightmare. SAS themselves are to blame. I woulda loved to have lived and flown back in the 70's and 80's to see what SAS was like, before it came to this state they are at now..... Like someone suggested, Norwegian can start doing more sas-hate in future campaigns. A "bye-latehansa" style commercial wouldn't be too arrogant for Mr. Kjos to consider. Especially after looking through their magazine with SAS-group targeted in the graphs for cO2 emissions... "SAS stepped away. We gladly take over!" ...
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21478 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 18998 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Interesting to note BKK was SAS first Far-East destination, and SAS was instrumental in the creation of Thai Airways, which even shared the SAS livery for many years.
I believe SAS was also the first western European carrier to obtain permission to overfly the Soviet Union on flights from CPH to BKK in 1967 using the DC-8-62 with a stop at Tashkent, Uzbekistan. It was branded the Trans-Asian Express and significantly cut the travel time compared to the traditional multi-stop routes then via the Middle East and India etc.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17855 times:
This really tells a lot about SK operations. If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes), then there is definitely something wrong at SK.....
SQSFO From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16806 times:
I think now ever than before SK, will need the government to step in and limit the number of flights awarded to the Gulf Carriers. The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16271 times:
Quoting SQSFO (Reply 17): The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition
Not in aviation policy. Especially Sweden which has been hands off, and openly stated they would not pour money into saving SK.
Ultimately, the problem does not lie with the Gulf carriers - they simply have built a better mouse trap, but with the inefficiency of SK.
If EK was never around, the Asian carriers and some European competitors like TK still would be running circles around a bloated inefficient SK.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
AF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16096 times:
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16): This really tells a lot about SK operations. If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes), then there is definitely something wrong at SK.....
It might be a sign, but loads and destination popularity don't always result into profitable operations.
AF's planes to BKK were almost always full, but yields due to a highly competitive environment and money oriented customers we very low. In fact, BKK was hardly profitable for AF despite the loads, hence the decision to reduce frequencies.
Moreover was not unusual to find 30-40 company tickets pax per flight, it makes it difficult to make cash out of such a flight.
Therefore, I wouldn't judge SK's overall performance solely on the BKK route cut decision.
danielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15951 times:
Well it's quite clear that other airlines, not only KLM, are seeing that SAS is struckling, and therefore tries to capitalise on it. I always wondered, if the combined number of inhabitants in Denmark, Norway and Sweden had something to do with the lack of profit. That all 3-4 nordic countries combined don't have enough business/work-travellers, compared to NL or Germany. They've GOT to make it attractive for foreigners to actually "detour" through Copenhagen. A bit like a detour to Istanbul. It's gotta be worth it. Often go Asia, and the TK stopover is worth it. Plus the lounges in IST are nice. Besides SAS' own problems, there are alot of things in Copenhagen Airport that needs addressing. Seating is bad most of the places outside café's etc... Going longhaul to NYC etc. the C-finger almost always have closed gates. You can walk in there, but often get told off for "breaching safety" or interferring (my a**) I just wanna sit down and relax. . Near impossible. Schipol has a little of the same problem, but if you have loungeaccess its tolerable. And try finding a power-outlet along any wall in CPH, you will play detective till you fly.... Besides that, no really good decent priced places to eat. IF you are willing to pay overprice/danish prices, for a good steak/primecuts of all kinds, M.A.S.H. Restaurant has everything from your typical lunchoffer-steak for 20 odd euro's , and well over 80 euro for other cuts. Besides that, all CPH has to offer is the unique danish hotdog... Not really worth a detour is it ?
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5286 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14287 times:
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 20): IF you are willing to pay overprice/danish prices, for a good steak/primecuts of all kinds, M.A.S.H. Restaurant has everything from your typical lunchoffer-steak for 20 odd euro's , and well over 80 euro for other cuts.
I've always thought CPH had good food choices at very reasonable prices, certainly better and cheaper than OSL, with more choice than FRA and ARN but with similar prices.
SASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14184 times:
Quoting sweair (Reply 5): I rather fly Thai from ARN than ARN-CPH-BKK with SAS and the 744s fly a bit faster than the A340s.. SAS has an idiotic routing IMO and probably lose a bit by this too
Are you talking financially or from a passenger point of view. From a passenger perspective the routing in excellent with night flights in both directions, but financially it cant't be good to keep the 340 on the ground for 10 hours + in BKK.
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16): If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes
What? BKK is a low yield tourist destination with almost no business travel (perhaps 25-30%) and low cargo volume. SK will return there in the winter season when they can make more money at BKK than on their US flights. AF and LH also cuts capacity to BKK, and in my mind BKK is hard destination to make money on year-round.
That said I am sure that SK will continue to struggle in direct competition with LCC like DY and the Gulf carriers.
bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6431 posts, RR: 58 Reply 23, posted (8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13709 times:
With Thailand seen as a risky new business destination due to the instability of the government, many companies are looking elsewhere, and flying elsewhere. What is left is inbound tourism, which is very low yielding. Thai has a strangle hold on this thanks to island connections.
AF, AB and SK have now made major changes to their schedules and LH have highlighted BKK as one of their very worst performing destinations. BA have also dropped their onward service to SYD from BKK, so BKK is really struggling.
The Thai 747s are a risky adventure - some in excellent condition, some very poor indeed.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1326 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12540 times:
Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.
Also, didn't SK try ARN - BKK and failed miserably? I think CPH is the only airport it could work from for them but as mentioned above, their aircraft are maybe to J intensive to make a profit.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 885 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12599 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24): Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.
Absolutely not. In that case there would be absolutely no demand for business class. SK does have quite a few connecting pax as well, so I think that would not work at all. HKT bound pax is probably even lower yield than BKK.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24): Also, didn't SK try ARN - BKK and failed miserably? I think CPH is the only airport it could work from for them but as mentioned above, their aircraft are maybe to J intensive to make a profit.
Yes, only a few years back they flew 3 weekly ARN-BKK. AFAIK it was only seasonal and lasted 1 or 2 seasons.
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
pvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 538 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11476 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24): Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.
Bangkok has way better connections to other popular destinations in Thailand than Phuket has.
I think increasing amount of tourists are going to some other destinations than Phuket as it has become pretty unoriginal place and doesn't have particularly good looking nature either when compared to other nearby places.
HELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 643 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11717 times:
Quoting SQSFO (Reply 17): The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition
The Nordic air space is free for the competition, but the market is relatively small comparing to densely populated Central/Southern-Europe.
Generally speaking, the Nordic countries have managed to combine "socialism" and economic competitiveness. The latest Global Competitiveness Index from WEF ranks Finland (3.) and Sweden (4.) higher than USA (7.). Norway and Denmark are doing well too.
ohsopc From Thailand, joined Jul 2006, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9507 times:
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23): AF, AB and SK have now made major changes to their schedules and LH have highlighted BKK as one of their very worst performing destinations. BA have also dropped their onward service to SYD from BKK, so BKK is really struggling.
I think BKK is really struggling only for European carriers. It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.
For example, while both AF and SK are struggling on their BKK routes, TG has been adding frequency to both routes (CDG 9x weekly - from 7x a few years back, and CPH/ARN - added frequency CPH/ARN-HKT as well as OSL). The Paris route is also going to be one of TG's first A380 routes, so therefore there is obviously demand on this route.
LondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9403 times:
Quoting ohsopc (Reply 29): It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.
I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.
The UK is a tricky market for TG because the Gulf carriers depart from so many airports both in London (LHR + LGW) and the regions. Clearly, it's easier (and possibly cheaper) for a Scottish passenger to take EK from GLA to BKK via DXB than to fly south with BA into LHR and change planes.
It's interesting to note that BKK (from AUH) is EY's busiest route. In 2011, EY flew 500,000 passengers between AUH and BKK. I wonder how many of these passengers started their journeys in Europe ?
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 31, posted (8 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8671 times:
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 30): I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.
This is due to the fact that A340-600 cockpit crew were complaining about the limited routing they had.
So B747 cockpit crew get Sydney while A346 cockpit crew get London in return.
This doesn't mean TG is performing better on SYD rather than LHR hence 744 goes SYD and 346 goes LHR.
TG is all about internal political. Still wonder why they are still making millions of profit each year!
Don't be annoyed knowing the passengers around you are non-revs and op-upgraders, be grateful for them. Life is beautifu
They are starting to make changes, slowly but surely. Another huge problem is the passport checkpoint when going out of Schengen. If you get there at 10-11 midday where SAS and a few others have longhaul going out, I find it weird when the bordercops know this, that they only put out 2 men doing that job... massive lines.
But then again I haven't been much to ARN or Oslo so I can't make a comparison, other than that I noticed the prices... I completely forgot Café Copenhagen, and the new nordic gourmét place besides MASH, the breakfast at CPH cafe is nice, but i have yet to try the gourmet one.
On a serious note though, the AF rewamp mentioned in another thread, makes me think, that the nordic hospitality is alright, and usually more positive than the AF crew. So it should actually be SAS that did this restructuring of cabin... It would win me over as a FF'er if they did a good job. But I guess the finances aren't there
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
something From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 24 Reply 34, posted (8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7774 times:
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 30): I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.
They're soon bringing the A388 there mate.
Quoting ohsopc (Reply 29): It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.
I'm glad for Thai then.
Quoting nethkt (Reply 31): TG is all about internal political.
I have heard a lot of these type of stories. But who knows, maybe that's ironically their secret. They don't focus on the numbers only, have happier staff which reflects in better service and results in happier customers.
On a tangential note.. you say the A340 crew complained about being limited in their rosters. Does Thai have a dedicated A346 crew, or do they also operate the A333 and the old A345?
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5286 posts, RR: 3 Reply 35, posted (8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7603 times:
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 32): Another huge problem is the passport checkpoint when going out of Schengen.
I've never really noticed it as a big problem, I fly through CPH to Russia often.
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 32): I completely forgot Café Copenhagen, and the new nordic gourmét place besides MASH, the breakfast at CPH cafe is nice, but i have yet to try the gourmet one.
I often eat at the Chinese noddle bar, the foods ok, it's cheap and quick, or the Italian pasta bar beside it, also cheap and quick then head into the SAS lounge for the comfy seats and free drinks. The SAS lounge coud do with a revamp, it's falling behind what other *lounges offer.
WROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7160 times:
Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 22): BKK is a low yield tourist destination with almost no business travel (perhaps 25-30%) and low cargo volume
True BKK was business 10-20 years ago, now everyone is going to TPE, KUL or PVG. I have not heard or read of any business opening a branch there.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24): Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT
Possibly, however they do not want to be considered as the pure leisure carrier, even though in many respects their service is more like LCC.
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 37, posted (8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6951 times:
Quoting something (Reply 34): On a tangential note.. you say the A340 crew complained about being limited in their rosters. Does Thai have a dedicated A346 crew, or do they also operate the A333 and the old A345?
330's cockpit crew stays with 330s and 340's cockpit crew stays with 340-600, 340-500.
Since 340-500s are retired from the fleet, no more LAX, HND, 340 cockpit crew is left with choice of ZRH, SYD, MXP (before LHR goes 346).
And it has been so long that the B747 cockpit crew last had a trip over Australia, so they need to go there!
A great deal is made, 340's cockpit crew gets LHR and B747's get to visit Australia! Great move!!
But well, did I mention anything about load factor? Well, let Sales/Marketing/Resv do their works!!
Don't be annoyed knowing the passengers around you are non-revs and op-upgraders, be grateful for them. Life is beautifu
g2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 439 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6712 times:
Quoting MAS777 (Reply 28): News reports in Malaysia suggest that the governments of Sweden and Malaysia are hoping to re-establish direct air links between the two countries..
I expect with this latest news - the chances of seeing SAS at KUL is now virtually nil.
CPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 14): On SAS, the premium seats are ridiculously overprized, for what they offer.
You are absolutely correct, Flew Economy Extra on their 343 last year, and I was really disappointed with what I got for the almost double price of a regular Y ticket. Being 6.4" (190cm), legroom is more inportant than seat width. Also, the IFE box on the floow took about 20% of the space in the seat in fron of me. Hard to move my feet around..........
A 70 - 100% premium over Y-class fares, it's a rip-off! I think most passengers are business travelers that are not allowed by their Company to fly Business Class (IMHO)
But, I think it is smart of SK to try another destination if BKK is not profitable. It makes perfekt business sense. I'm sceptical if SFO is the the right choice for US West Coast - CPH. How ever, with such a small fleet of long-haul aircraft, they have to utililise them where they can make the most revenue AND spend the most time in the air = earning money.
Also, I believe that a lot Charter/Holiday packages sold from Sweden/Denmark are booked on Thai, not SK.
Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1326 posts, RR: 2 Reply 41, posted (8 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6151 times:
Quoting sweair (Reply 40): Kastrup stinks if you dont need to eat or drink, there is nowhere to sit down, I never had that problem on ARN.
I know many swedes hate going via CPH, if there is an option people want to go straight from ARN to their destination.
CPH's redeeeming feature is that queuing for security is a lot less than ARN and luggage arrives much faster. I really hate travelling through ARN because it is a place of stress for me. The main security check at Terminal 5 is always undermanned and the queues are ridiculous. Luggage always takes an age (at least 15 minutes) and staff there are very rude.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
danielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (8 months 3 days ago) and read 5737 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 41): CPH's redeeeming feature is that queuing for security is a lot less than ARN and luggage arrives much faster. I really hate travelling through ARN because it is a place of stress for me. The main security check at Terminal 5 is always undermanned and the queues are ridiculous. Luggage always takes an age (at least 15 minutes) and staff there are very rude.
Indeed, forgot that positive about CPH... I was once from Singapore back to CPH, the passport control was a mere 5 minutes. After that, took me 2 minutes to enter out and be at the baggage area, and bags were there, mine included, in less than 10 minutes! :O One thing they fail at, is never knowing whether or not an Oddsize item gets on the belt, or comes in by hand. Meaning you scramble around sometimes, i bring snookercuecases (not allowed in cabin) .
Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39): You are absolutely correct, Flew Economy Extra on their 343 last year, and I was really disappointed with what I got for the almost double price of a regular Y ticket. Being 6.4" (190cm), legroom is more inportant than seat width. Also, the IFE box on the floow took about 20% of the space in the seat in fron of me. Hard to move my feet around..........
A 70 - 100% premium over Y-class fares, it's a rip-off! I think most passengers are business travelers that are not allowed by their Company to fly Business Class (IMHO)
Im glad you agree. Also, on shorthaul, they could at LEAST do like KLM, block the seat next to you for privacy if you actually paid for a business ticket in one of their a320's in row one. But no... I am new to all these forums, but i'm still a good thinker. And like u say, SFO might not be the right choice. On KLM the flight seems full almost. 2-3 business seats in the bubble were not taken. In general, it's really about what people expect NOT to get on the airline. If KLM flew direct from CPH to SFO on a 747, SAS wouldn't win me over. Even though I also hate the 773 with 10 abreast, they still probably wouldn't. Sad fact. They aren't desirable.... ps. I got an upgrade on TK from Mumbai to Istanbul on TK. It was their 333, instead of the old 332 serving it before, meaning I got to try the fladbeds. Found it very comfy tbh.... Slept alot of the 6-7 hr flight. Again showing how great their product is. Besides the odd dodgy pilot of theirs...
***EDIT***
Having said that. I would never take the Norwegian flight instead of SAS to BKK. Poor seats when its released I think. Probably way worse than the LH and SAS new upcoming slimseats, which were surprisingly comfy. But Norwegian to BKK, having to pay for drinks and food ? nahh...
[Edited 2012-09-20 16:41:46]
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1326 posts, RR: 2 Reply 43, posted (8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 42): Having said that. I would never take the Norwegian flight instead of SAS to BKK. Poor seats when its released I think. Probably way worse than the LH and SAS new upcoming slimseats, which were surprisingly comfy. But Norwegian to BKK, having to pay for drinks and food ? nahh...
I wouldn't fly SAS long haul nonstop. Despite free meals you are restricted to just two alcoholic drinks and SAS are just a horrible airline.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 44, posted (8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5404 times:
Scandinavia to KUL on a premium airlines, seriously? I think you guys are way too overhyped about it.
Government can support airlines bla bla but in the end it's about passenger!
ARN-KUL, CPH-KUL, I don't see that coming at least in the next 10 years.
Not to forget Qatar, Emirates, KLM, Thai, Singapore etc for the already high-competition for this route.
If BKK and SIN can't survive non-stop from Scandinavia, KUL is never going to make it.
Don't be annoyed knowing the passengers around you are non-revs and op-upgraders, be grateful for them. Life is beautifu
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2779 posts, RR: 1 Reply 45, posted (8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5333 times:
Quoting danielkandi (Reply 42): Also, on shorthaul, they could at LEAST do like KLM, block the seat next to you for privacy if you actually paid for a business ticket in one of their a320's in row one
SAS do block the middle seats in business class (althopugh noted they don't offer business calss on all routes)
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 43): Despite free meals you are restricted to just two alcoholic drinks and SAS are just a horrible airline.
Actually it three, although your not restricted, you just have to pay for them.
I do however find it ironic that you won't fly SAS since you have to pay for alcohol after drink nr2 or 3......but you still choose to fly with Ryanair. How many free drinks do you get there?
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1326 posts, RR: 2 Reply 47, posted (8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5246 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 45): I do however find it ironic that you won't fly SAS since you have to pay for alcohol after drink nr2 or 3......but you still choose to fly with Ryanair. How many free drinks do you get there?
You get what you pay for with Ryanair and that was due to a last minute trip I had to make to Norway.
With SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights. That doesn't seem fair to me, especially if you are a code share customer from say Lufthansa or SIA.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2779 posts, RR: 1 Reply 48, posted (8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5235 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 47): SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights
That is quite debatable, the only difference between SAS and Lufthansa (as an example) on shorthaul is really the buy-on-board...and consider the amount of crap food I have got on Lufthansa recently, is much prefere SK's buy-on-board where i can choose what to order. So then it all comes down to free drinks or not....and that's is not really what diffrentiate LCC-service or not, in my oppinion.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 885 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Quoting someone83 (Reply 48): So then it all comes down to free drinks or not....and that's is not really what diffrentiate LCC-service or not, in my oppinion.
True. At least SK gives you complimentary water, tea and coffee now. What makes SK great for me is their reliability and high frequencies on many routes. When a LCC establishes what they call a new route, it's usually not an option for me if they fly once or twice weekly.
And when things go wrong, which they are bound to do once in a while, SAS usually handles issues in a professional and not least flexible manner. Would you get rerouted on a different airline if your flight on FR gets heavily delayed? Don't think so. SAS and their partners have a great network and for me it's not worth the inconvenience that I risk taking if I book on a LCC.
[Edited 2012-09-21 04:11:24]
[Edited 2012-09-21 04:11:54]
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2779 posts, RR: 1 Reply 50, posted (8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5179 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 47): SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights
That is quite debatable, the only difference between SAS and Lufthansa (as an example) on shorthaul is really the buy-on-board...and consider the amount of crap food I have got on Lufthansa recently, is much prefere SK's buy-on-board where i can choose what to order. So then it all comes down to free drinks or not....and that's is not really what diffrentiate LCC-service or not, in my oppinion.
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 51, posted (8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5008 times:
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 47): You get what you pay for with Ryanair and that was due to a last minute trip I had to make to Norway.
With SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights. That doesn't seem fair to me, especially if you are a code share customer from say Lufthansa or SIA.
I can tell you all my intra-Europe SAS flights are darn cheap. As cheap as low-cost carries' and I don't have to fly to smaller out-of-nowhere airports. And I can book just one-way!
Luckily I am a *A gold, so there are even lounges for me.
I don't get what I pay for, I've got a lot more than what I've paid for.....well, good for me!
Don't be annoyed knowing the passengers around you are non-revs and op-upgraders, be grateful for them. Life is beautifu
SAS doesn't offer business class cabin intra-Scandinavia. Only Economy and Economy Extra.....and yes, I know you can buy "business class" tickets, but this has more to do with the rules regarding flexibility
And consider how full those flight are with poeple in Y+, there is no way possible to block of seats as they need the capacity
planewasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted (8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
Closing BKK would be wise. SK can't compete on cost with the charter airlines and should focus on business destinations, like Shanghai.
Am I the only one who like SAS? I fly to China a lot and prefer them over Air China. Sure, you get unlimited beer and wine on Air China, disgusting Chinese brands that taste like ****, but NO liquor...
And I always get some extra for free if I ask nicely on SAS.
And when I have had the luck to fly business class on SAS I have been impressed. Sure, the hardware is not the best but the service is nice and personal. And I always arrive hungover because of all the nice drinks.
SAS new policy that you always get bonus 100% points when flying SAS metal, even on discount tickes, means I now get huge amount of points when flying SAS longhaul a lot. One trip is often enough for an upgrade to economy extra.
It also feels like they are improving the Europe service now. When I flew domestic in Denmark a few days ago there where free juice, coffee and other stuff at boarding, too short flight to serve anything.
And yeah, I love the MD-80. I always sit in the back and listen to the wonderful engine noise.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38503 posts, RR: 80 Reply 57, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3331 times:
Funny, I moved from San Francisco to Bangkok. I guess SAS doesn't like me.
Hard to imagine SAS having difficulty on their flights to BKK considering the large Scandinavian population that visits and many that have a 2nd. home here in Thailand.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 58, posted (7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2909 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 57): Hard to imagine SAS having difficulty on their flights to BKK considering the large Scandinavian population that visits and many that have a 2nd. home here in Thailand.
Thats the problem.
While large, its primarily a leisure market. SAS says BKK generates relative low premium traffic, so with its high cost base, and collecting low tourist fares is a bad mix for the carrier. Air France had the same problem, while Lufthansa also recently also complained about its BKK performance.
Thailand is more apt for Scandinavian charter operator, or LCC such as Norwegian that have lower cost base.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
HELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 643 posts, RR: 1 Reply 60, posted (7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58): While large, its primarily a leisure market. SAS says BKK generates relative low premium traffic, so with its high cost base, and collecting low tourist fares is a bad mix for the carrier. Air France had the same problem, while Lufthansa also recently also complained about its BKK performance.
Thailand is more apt for Scandinavian charter operator, or LCC such as Norwegian that have lower cost base.
It seems Bangkok works for Finnair, they keep on serving BKK 2x daily in winter. One reason is they also carry package holiday customers on their scheduled flights.
anstar From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 4845 posts, RR: 6 Reply 61, posted (7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
Quoting nethkt (Reply 37):
330's cockpit crew stays with 330s and 340's cockpit crew stays with 340-600, 340-500.
I believe Virgin Atlantic are one of the few airlines that mixfleet 330 and 340 flight crews.
Quoting nethkt (Reply 37): And it has been so long that the B747 cockpit crew last had a trip over Australia, so they need to go there!
A great deal is made, 340's cockpit crew gets LHR and B747's get to visit Australia! Great move!!
So their operational planning is based on where flight crews get to visit? No wonder they are loosing cash!
aviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 12 Reply 63, posted (7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2504 times:
Wow, this is somewhat startling when you consider the long-time connections between SAS and Thai -- and the connections between Thailand and Denmark in general. There are a lot of Thais in Denmark, and lots of Danes visit Thailand. Not enough premium pax, I guess.
PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 64, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1805 times:
By chance saw a paper story about continued growth and success of Gulf carriers, and had quote from VP of Intercontinental network at SAS about this BKK route.
He said BKK was producing the lowest yields of any longhaul route flown by SAS with very few business passengers particularly during summer months. So even with 60-years history SAS could not sustain the route after years of continued losses, and he blamed much of the decline on the massive increase in capacity and low fare offerings in Europe by Gulf carriers.
He further stated in his view, as legacy European carriers continue to suffer under high costs and declining yields, Bangkok is a awaking sign for the potential in continued reduction in the number markets carriers like SAS viably serve in the face of mounting competition.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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