LGWGate49 From Sudan, joined Nov 2009, 117 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11076 times:
Good to hear that they've started growing already, with two new routes announced from 29 October (BRS - ABZ, and the old Cityjet route MAN-ANR), 40 new staff, and a new website (http://www.bmiregional.com). Is that even a new logo?
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18830 posts, RR: 54 Reply 2, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10397 times:
Thanks for the update.
The ER3 and ER4 can possess appropriate cost and capacity for thin and reasonably short routes. They benefit from low trip costs. But their low capacity – in this case, number of seats – means that while the trip cost is low relative to higher-capacity aircraft, unit (CASK) and seat costs will be higher. This is because there is less output generated – ASKs and seats – over which to spread the trip costs. This necessitates higher revenues to breakeven, let alone make a profit. Hence, ER3s and ER4s, and other such low-capacity regional jets, may be suitable but only if they generate enough revenue to offset higher unit and seat costs, thus the need to target business-orientated routes. Clearly BRS-ABZ (a route previously flown by Eastern, which carried 32,766 in 2011) and MAN-ANR (as the thread-starter said, this was before operated by CityJet, with 27,791 carried in 2011) fall into this category, although it appears that they’re also seeking more price-elastic customers with some temptingly low fares, such as ABZ-BRS, a route with a 1h 25m block, from £39.50 one-way all-in. (MAN-ANR starts from £59.65 one-way all-in.) However, such promotions will obviously be limited.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
nighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 4988 posts, RR: 38 Reply 3, posted (8 months 5 days ago) and read 10307 times:
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2): The ER3 and ER4 can possess appropriate cost and capacity for thin and reasonably short routes. They benefit from low trip costs. But their low capacity – in this case, number of seats – means that while the trip cost is low relative to higher-capacity aircraft, unit (CASK) and seat costs will be higher. This is because there is less output generated – ASKs and seats – over which to spread the trip costs. This necessitates higher revenues to breakeven, let alone make a profit. Hence, ER3s and ER4s, and other such low-capacity regional jets, may be suitable but only if they generate enough revenue to offset higher unit and seat costs, thus the need to target business-orientated routes. Clearly BRS-ABZ (a route previously flown by Eastern, which carried 32,766 in 2011) and MAN-ANR (as the thread-starter said, this was before operated by CityJet, with 27,791 carried in 2011) fall into this category, although it appears that they’re also seeking more price-elastic customers with some temptingly low fares, such as ABZ-BRS, a route with a 1h 25m block, from £39.50 one-way all-in. (MAN-ANR starts from £59.65 one-way all-in.) However, such promotions will obviously be limited.
The costs only include fuel and landing fees. Other fees may also effect the cost, but should be fairly similar between models.
Based on the rough figures listed in the article, the ERJ isn't all that bad of a choice for bmi regional based on their current route network and strategy.
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 months 5 days ago) and read 10224 times:
Look at the fleet size, then look at the planned winter schedule, assume new routes will be loss making for 6-12 months and then explain how in the name of God they are meant to get through year one.
As far as the market is concerned, BMI is no more.
They are flying aircraft that will need to charge a premium to make money on and all flying out of LHR ends in six weeks. I wouldn't book with them, let's be honest.
Ian Woodley is putting heart before head by sinking money into this.
LX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6437 times:
I originally gave them 18 months to last. I was wrong, now I've heard a bit more about what they are doing and these routes - I give them 15 months.
They are flying thin routes - and routes which may have some demand - but ones where people are not going to spend huge amounts on tickets. Many of these routes compete with trains. They are financing relatively high cost aircraft which aren't even that new anymore and they don't and won't offer frequency anything like what business passengers demand.
There were people on here who used to say Bmi Regional was the 'best performing part of the group' - maybe they can offer some different views.
I have to say I'm pleased the bmi brand is living on - albeit under an even slower, prelonged death.
bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6431 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5850 times:
Sorry, if WX cant make Antwerp work in a low cost Fokker 50, and eastern cant make Aberdeen work on a Jet Stream, i dont see what BMI regional will do with a high cost E135 on the same routes.
It has been shown over and over again that the ERJ has not worked on point to point routes.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18830 posts, RR: 54 Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4920 times:
Flightglobal Pro - sorry, it's a subscription service so I can't supply a link - has posted an article entitled "BMI Regional to look at larger aircraft in late 2013." A part of the article was:
"In the short- to medium-term, our aircraft ownership costs are minimal, that gives us a level of flexibility," said Woodley during a media briefing at the European Region Airlines Association' general assembly in Dublin. "We still feel the [ERJ]-145 has a role to play in the short- to medium-term. We will look at things at the back end of next year to perhaps increase the fleet with larger-capacity aircraft."
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Agreed. The quickest way would be to fly to Heathrow and take the train (via Reading) or a direct coach. This would take about 4 hours including the flight.
I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?
adg737800 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 22 hours ago) and read 3940 times:
Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11): I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?
Unlikely. FirstGroup are a LSE company and as such would have to make an RNS announcement to the stock exchange that they were putting money into BMI Regional. First also have enough on their Finance Director's plate dealing with the UK bus division's problems and debt from the Laidlaw purchase without jumping into the aviation world too! Knowing what City investors are like from my day job, I think they would be extremely concerned if FirstGroup decided to do this now.
I'd say it's just a wild rumour but happy to be proved wrong in the long term!
Next flights: LCY-GVA (LX); LCY-AGP (BA); LHR-HKG (BA- A380!!!)
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 20 hours ago) and read 3783 times:
Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11): The market isn't concerned. If there are demand for the routes then passengers will come, regardless of the name on the tail.
I think there is a concern in the market when one's brand is associated in the public mind with a company that is no more. I say it is a concern, not a deal breaker as Air Europe and XL continued after the demies of sister companies. Also Duo's rebirth from Maersk UK was an utter failure.
Of the roughly fourteen aircraft in the fleet today, how much work is lined up from the end of October when BMI flying ceases out of LHR?
visualapproach From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 months 16 hours ago) and read 3566 times:
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13): Of the roughly fourteen aircraft in the fleet today, how much work is lined up from the end of October when BMI flying ceases out of LHR?
Aberdeen to Bristol by train takes 8 hours 49 minutes according to www.thetrainline.com!
Aberdeen to Manchester is 6hrs 20 minutes.
Okay, some routes.
Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11): I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?
Frankly I'd be surprised if SQ teamed up with them and it worked.
I also hardly think First Group is a great example right now, what with the Virgin rail situation. I also doubt the First Groups 'charge them through the nose and bleed the infrastructure/equipment dry' business model would work for business orientated BMI Regional.
bmi regional operate the following routes:
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
London Heathrow - Aberdeen
London Heathrow - Manchester
London Heathrow - Hannover
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Manchester - Lyon
Edinburgh - Brussels
Edinburgh - Copenhagen
Edinburgh - Zurich
East Midlands - Frankfurt
Leeds/Bradford - Brussels
East Midlands - Brussels
Glasgow - Copenhagen
Only two of those routes compete with the trains - Heathrow-Manchester and Manchester-Edinburgh.
Out of interest, after all the partner flights cease, you are left with just (minus the two routes just announced):
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Glasgow - Copenhagen
rather worrying!
Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11): I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'.
I am not aware of any link to First Group. The investors in the airline are:
Granite Aviation, lead by Ian Wood
Stephen & Peter Bond - former owners of Bond helicopters (sold last year) and also investors in Loganair.
Note that there is no link between bmi regional and Loganair, other than sharing two investors.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2643 times:
Quoting nighthawk (Reply 16): bmi regional operate the following routes:
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
London Heathrow - Aberdeen
London Heathrow - Manchester
London Heathrow - Hannover
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Manchester - Lyon
Edinburgh - Brussels
Edinburgh - Copenhagen
Edinburgh - Zurich
East Midlands - Frankfurt
Leeds/Bradford - Brussels
East Midlands - Brussels
Glasgow - Copenhagen
Only two of those routes compete with the trains - Heathrow-Manchester and Manchester-Edinburgh.
Out of interest, after all the partner flights cease, you are left with just (minus the two routes just announced):
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Glasgow - Copenhagen
Apart from the LHR services, no other routes are ceasing. And while a lot of bmi regional's routes have benefited from Star partners, many of them pre-dated Star
nighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 4988 posts, RR: 38 Reply 18, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2388 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 17): Apart from the LHR services, no other routes are ceasing. And while a lot of bmi regional's routes have benefited from Star partners, many of them pre-dated Star
I was under the impression that all flying for SN Brussles, Lufthansa, SAS and Swiss was stopping as a result of them no longer being a Star Alliance partner?
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2076 times:
Quoting nighthawk (Reply 18): I was under the impression that all flying for SN Brussles, Lufthansa, SAS and Swiss was stopping as a result of them no longer being a Star Alliance partner?
The LHR flights for bmi mainline, and the soon to end NCL/BRS-BRU for Brussels Airlines excepted, everything has always been a bmi regional 'own brand' route, with the Star partners simply codesharing. Those codeshares stop for the 'new' bmi regional, but the routes don't
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