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BMI Regional - New Routes, Staff & Website  
User currently offlineLGWGate49 From Sudan, joined Nov 2009, 138 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12650 times:

Good to hear that they've started growing already, with two new routes announced from 29 October (BRS - ABZ, and the old Cityjet route MAN-ANR), 40 new staff, and a new website (http://www.bmiregional.com). Is that even a new logo?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-19639015

I really do wish these guys the best when they go it alone from 28 October, and hope they can make it a great success.


Look for the ridiculous in everything, and you will find it
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12304 times:

Weird nobody commented on this. The schedules are the following:

Aberdeen – Bristol
BD1802 ABZ0855 – 1020BRS ER4 x7
BD1808 ABZ1835 – 2000BRS ER4 x6

BD1801 BRS0700 – 0825ABZ ER4 x7
BD1807 BRS1640 – 1805ABZ ER4 x6

Manchester – Antwerp
BD1501 MAN0700 – 0920ANR ER3 x7
BD1507 MAN1650 – 1910ANR ER3 x6

BD1502 ANR0950 – 1010MAN ER3 x7
BD1508 ANR1940 – 2000MAN ER3 x6

I wish them good luck too... but I honestly think they need to change the fleet. The E35 and ER4 won't work for them.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11972 times:

Thanks for the update.

The ER3 and ER4 can possess appropriate cost and capacity for thin and reasonably short routes. They benefit from low trip costs. But their low capacity – in this case, number of seats – means that while the trip cost is low relative to higher-capacity aircraft, unit (CASK) and seat costs will be higher. This is because there is less output generated – ASKs and seats – over which to spread the trip costs. This necessitates higher revenues to breakeven, let alone make a profit. Hence, ER3s and ER4s, and other such low-capacity regional jets, may be suitable but only if they generate enough revenue to offset higher unit and seat costs, thus the need to target business-orientated routes. Clearly BRS-ABZ (a route previously flown by Eastern, which carried 32,766 in 2011) and MAN-ANR (as the thread-starter said, this was before operated by CityJet, with 27,791 carried in 2011) fall into this category, although it appears that they’re also seeking more price-elastic customers with some temptingly low fares, such as ABZ-BRS, a route with a 1h 25m block, from £39.50 one-way all-in. (MAN-ANR starts from £59.65 one-way all-in.) However, such promotions will obviously be limited.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5163 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
The ER3 and ER4 can possess appropriate cost and capacity for thin and reasonably short routes. They benefit from low trip costs. But their low capacity – in this case, number of seats – means that while the trip cost is low relative to higher-capacity aircraft, unit (CASK) and seat costs will be higher. This is because there is less output generated – ASKs and seats – over which to spread the trip costs. This necessitates higher revenues to breakeven, let alone make a profit. Hence, ER3s and ER4s, and other such low-capacity regional jets, may be suitable but only if they generate enough revenue to offset higher unit and seat costs, thus the need to target business-orientated routes. Clearly BRS-ABZ (a route previously flown by Eastern, which carried 32,766 in 2011) and MAN-ANR (as the thread-starter said, this was before operated by CityJet, with 27,791 carried in 2011) fall into this category, although it appears that they’re also seeking more price-elastic customers with some temptingly low fares, such as ABZ-BRS, a route with a 1h 25m block, from £39.50 one-way all-in. (MAN-ANR starts from £59.65 one-way all-in.) However, such promotions will obviously be limited.

I did an article on the operating costs of the ERJ145 vs Dash8 for my website a few months ago when the bmi regional buyout was first announced. You can read it here: http://www.airport-talk.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7173

The costs only include fuel and landing fees. Other fees may also effect the cost, but should be fairly similar between models.

Based on the rough figures listed in the article, the ERJ isn't all that bad of a choice for bmi regional based on their current route network and strategy.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11799 times:

Look at the fleet size, then look at the planned winter schedule, assume new routes will be loss making for 6-12 months and then explain how in the name of God they are meant to get through year one.
As far as the market is concerned, BMI is no more.
They are flying aircraft that will need to charge a premium to make money on and all flying out of LHR ends in six weeks. I wouldn't book with them, let's be honest.

Ian Woodley is putting heart before head by sinking money into this.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4923 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9981 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
Clearly BRS-ABZ (a route previously flown by Eastern, which carried 32,766 in 2011)

T3 still fly it as a one-stop same plane through service via LBA



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8012 times:

I originally gave them 18 months to last. I was wrong, now I've heard a bit more about what they are doing and these routes - I give them 15 months.

They are flying thin routes - and routes which may have some demand - but ones where people are not going to spend huge amounts on tickets. Many of these routes compete with trains. They are financing relatively high cost aircraft which aren't even that new anymore and they don't and won't offer frequency anything like what business passengers demand.

There were people on here who used to say Bmi Regional was the 'best performing part of the group' - maybe they can offer some different views.

I have to say I'm pleased the bmi brand is living on - albeit under an even slower, prelonged death.



StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7212 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

Sorry, if WX cant make Antwerp work in a low cost Fokker 50, and eastern cant make Aberdeen work on a Jet Stream, i dont see what BMI regional will do with a high cost E135 on the same routes.

It has been shown over and over again that the ERJ has not worked on point to point routes.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5163 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

Quoting LX138 (Reply 6):
Many of these routes compete with trains.

You're kidding, right?

Aberdeen to Bristol by train takes 8 hours 49 minutes according to www.thetrainline.com!
Aberdeen to Manchester is 6hrs 20 minutes.

And as for fares, a single to Manchester leaving today will cost you £99 on the train, or £167 on bmi regional.

Feel free to take the train, i think i'd rather fly bmi regional, and I think every other businessman travelling to those will do likewise!



That'll teach you
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Flightglobal Pro - sorry, it's a subscription service so I can't supply a link - has posted an article entitled "BMI Regional to look at larger aircraft in late 2013." A part of the article was:

"In the short- to medium-term, our aircraft ownership costs are minimal, that gives us a level of flexibility," said Woodley during a media briefing at the European Region Airlines Association' general assembly in Dublin. "We still feel the [ERJ]-145 has a role to play in the short- to medium-term. We will look at things at the back end of next year to perhaps increase the fleet with larger-capacity aircraft."



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 9):
increase the fleet

Huh? How much of the current fleet is going to be used at the end of BMI flying from LHR?


User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5589 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 4):
As far as the market is concerned, BMI is no more.

The market isn't concerned. If there are demand for the routes then passengers will come, regardless of the name on the tail.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 6):
Many of these routes compete with trains.

Are you joking?

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 8):
Aberdeen to Bristol by train takes 8 hours 49 minutes according to www.thetrainline.com!

Agreed. The quickest way would be to fly to Heathrow and take the train (via Reading) or a direct coach. This would take about 4 hours including the flight.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 6):
prelonged death

I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineadg737800 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11):
I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?

Unlikely. FirstGroup are a LSE company and as such would have to make an RNS announcement to the stock exchange that they were putting money into BMI Regional. First also have enough on their Finance Director's plate dealing with the UK bus division's problems and debt from the Laidlaw purchase without jumping into the aviation world too! Knowing what City investors are like from my day job, I think they would be extremely concerned if FirstGroup decided to do this now.

I'd say it's just a wild rumour but happy to be proved wrong in the long term!



Next flights: LCY-EDI-LCY (BA Cityflyer)
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5358 times:

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11):
The market isn't concerned. If there are demand for the routes then passengers will come, regardless of the name on the tail.

I think there is a concern in the market when one's brand is associated in the public mind with a company that is no more. I say it is a concern, not a deal breaker as Air Europe and XL continued after the demies of sister companies. Also Duo's rebirth from Maersk UK was an utter failure.

Of the roughly fourteen aircraft in the fleet today, how much work is lined up from the end of October when BMI flying ceases out of LHR?


User currently offlinevisualapproach From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13):
Of the roughly fourteen aircraft in the fleet today, how much work is lined up from the end of October when BMI flying ceases out of LHR?

And when they stop flying for Brussels Airlines.


User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 8):
You're kidding, right?

Aberdeen to Bristol by train takes 8 hours 49 minutes according to www.thetrainline.com!
Aberdeen to Manchester is 6hrs 20 minutes.

Okay, some routes.

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11):
I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'. If so then they have a huge purse and access to good people and good resources. Although they haven't ventured into aviation before(?) they are one of the worlds largest public transportation companies. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour?

Frankly I'd be surprised if SQ teamed up with them and it worked.

I also hardly think First Group is a great example right now, what with the Virgin rail situation. I also doubt the First Groups 'charge them through the nose and bleed the infrastructure/equipment dry' business model would work for business orientated BMI Regional.



StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5163 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Quoting LX138 (Reply 15):
Okay, some routes.

bmi regional operate the following routes:
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
London Heathrow - Aberdeen
London Heathrow - Manchester
London Heathrow - Hannover
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Manchester - Lyon
Edinburgh - Brussels
Edinburgh - Copenhagen
Edinburgh - Zurich
East Midlands - Frankfurt
Leeds/Bradford - Brussels
East Midlands - Brussels
Glasgow - Copenhagen

Only two of those routes compete with the trains - Heathrow-Manchester and Manchester-Edinburgh.

Out of interest, after all the partner flights cease, you are left with just (minus the two routes just announced):
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Glasgow - Copenhagen

rather worrying!

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 11):
I heard that First Group was bank rolling this 'start-up'.

I am not aware of any link to First Group. The investors in the airline are:
Granite Aviation, lead by Ian Wood
Stephen & Peter Bond - former owners of Bond helicopters (sold last year) and also investors in Loganair.

Note that there is no link between bmi regional and Loganair, other than sharing two investors.

[Edited 2012-09-24 00:34:16]


That'll teach you
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4923 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 16):
bmi regional operate the following routes:
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
London Heathrow - Aberdeen
London Heathrow - Manchester
London Heathrow - Hannover
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Manchester - Lyon
Edinburgh - Brussels
Edinburgh - Copenhagen
Edinburgh - Zurich
East Midlands - Frankfurt
Leeds/Bradford - Brussels
East Midlands - Brussels
Glasgow - Copenhagen

Only two of those routes compete with the trains - Heathrow-Manchester and Manchester-Edinburgh.

Out of interest, after all the partner flights cease, you are left with just (minus the two routes just announced):
Aberdeen - Norwich
Aberdeen - Esbjerg
Aberdeen - Groningen
Manchester - Aberdeen
Manchester - Edinburgh
Glasgow - Copenhagen

Apart from the LHR services, no other routes are ceasing. And while a lot of bmi regional's routes have benefited from Star partners, many of them pre-dated Star



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5163 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 17):
Apart from the LHR services, no other routes are ceasing. And while a lot of bmi regional's routes have benefited from Star partners, many of them pre-dated Star

I was under the impression that all flying for SN Brussles, Lufthansa, SAS and Swiss was stopping as a result of them no longer being a Star Alliance partner?



That'll teach you
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4923 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 18):
I was under the impression that all flying for SN Brussles, Lufthansa, SAS and Swiss was stopping as a result of them no longer being a Star Alliance partner?

The LHR flights for bmi mainline, and the soon to end NCL/BRS-BRU for Brussels Airlines excepted, everything has always been a bmi regional 'own brand' route, with the Star partners simply codesharing. Those codeshares stop for the 'new' bmi regional, but the routes don't



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineNonRev From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 59 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Guys, the majority of revenue for (new) bmi, and previously bmi Regional was & is charter operations.

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