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LHR Terminal Question  
User currently offlinetraveladdict From Malaysia, joined Feb 2009, 46 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

I was just wondering how airlines decide on which terminal they fly to at LHR. Do they pay different prices for different terminals? So would an airline specifically choose a "cheaper" terminal if they were trying to spend less money? Or would they simply get assigned to a terminal without a choice? I tried googling this but it's pretty hard to find a direct answer, so I hope someone could answer this for me. Thanks.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6206 times:

Terminals are generally operated as such and I don't think price has too much to do with it:

- Terminal 1 - Star Alliance + British Airways (ex-Bmi), Icelandair and some others.
- Terminal 3 - One World + Virgin Atlantic + Emirates + Singapore Airlines + Air Canada and some others.
- Terminal 4 - Sky Team + Non-alined airlines (middle eastern carriers etc).
- Terminal 5 - IAG (British Airways & Iberia)

Basically the terminals are loosely arranged by alliance with quite a few exceptions. Terminal 4 only has two A380 ready gates whilst Terminal 3 has 4 so it couldn't cope with Emirates for example who has multiple A380 departures a day.

The new Terminal 2 will be a Star Alliance hub when it opens in 2014 and will be built with a number of A380 ready stands so I imagine there will be further consolidation.

I also expect that British Airways will try and consolidate operations from Terminal 1 (it shuts in 2014) to either T5 and/or T3 and will probably move long haul flights to SIN/BKK/SYD to Terminal 5 when the JSA with QF finishes next year or wait for T5D to be constructed (if it happens).

Still a lot of change to come!



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6044 times:

Why IAG only uses terminal 5? Did they pay most and got a monopoly?

Is it possible that we would see for example VS operating from Terminal 5?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4820 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 2):

Why IAG only uses terminal 5? Did they pay most and got a monopoly?

Is it possible that we would see for example VS operating from Terminal 5?

Considering IAG / BA is the national carrier it makes sense to be based at T5...

VS operating from T5 will probable happen in say 100 years...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 3):
VS operating from T5 will probable happen in say 100 years

I understand, but that was just an example.

Is there any possibilities that other airlines than IAG would use T5?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4820 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 4):
Is there any possibilities that other airlines than IAG would use T5?

From my understanding IAG will be the only carrier based @ T5... I must add even QF don't operate from T5...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5933 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
From my understanding IAG will be the only carrier based @ T5... I must add even QF don't operate from T5..

Yes, but there must be some reason for that. Is that money? BA pays to keep competition away?


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 6):
Yes, but there must be some reason for that. Is that money? BA pays to keep competition away?

BA are the national flag carrier and by far the biggest carrier with nearing 50% of all slots at LHR. They need their own big, dedicated facility. Period.



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

BA, pre IAG negotiated with BAA for exclusive use of T5. Years ago, they were originally supposed to have T4 all to themselves but BAA screwed them over on that one, BA do pay more for T5 as the facilities are much better.

The new T2 will cost more for airlines to use than the old T2, as the old T2 was due to make an appearnce with Tony Robinson on Time Team. Given the soon to be tennants, the STAR carriers are not Ryanair, this was negotiated and agreed that charges would be higher.


User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
They need their own big, dedicated facility.

Lufthansa doesn't need at FRA?

Well this is just my opinion, but I really think BA has paid much to get a monopoly.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

It's simple market economics and BA does not have a monopoly at LHR. It has less in % terms off slots than AF at CDG, KLM at AMS or LH at FRA. Terminal 2 will be just as good as Terminal 5 once it is completed, and you must realise that BAA must get a return on it's multi billion pound investment in new facilities.

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2946 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

finnishway:

BA has their own terminal because it:

- Facilitates smoother connections, which has long been a major issue for BA at LHR (ie I did a domestic-international transfer in January that took all of 12 minutes -- I would have missed my connection had I needed to transfer terminals and would likely have been stuck there for 24 hours).
- Allows greater control over the customer experience on the ground.
- Allows the airline to save a lot in operational costs -- having a single centralised operation (and a smaller secondary one) is far cheaper than have 3-4 small operations (I'm referring to things like lounges, baggage systems, check-in facilities/staff etc).
- Allows BA to offer a far nicer facility to their customers than other airlines -- that's an advantage.

BA isn't paying to keep the competition away, they are paying for the advantages of the new facility. If other airlines had been prepared to pay more then they could have had the space instead.

You also have to remember that there is a significant beneift to BAA in BA being centralised. It was a good thing for the airport as a whole to take BA out of the smaller terminals and put them in one spot.

My bet is that BA only pays as much as Star carriers will pay for T2 once that is finished. Those facilities will be as good, if not better than T5 is.

LH might not have a dedicated terminal at FRA, but BA is hardly unique in having a dedicated space. SQ has SIN T3 to themselves, the US airlines all have dedicated terminals all over the place, EK has T3 at DXB, QF has T3 domestic at SYD. There are countless further examples. It makes sense for the large/dominant airline to consolidate their operations where they can and BA is no different.


User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Thanks qf002 for your great summary.

I still would like to know is it possible that other airlines would move their operations to T5 at some point?


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2946 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 12):

Only if BA agree to it (there have been constant rumours of a QF or JL move, for example). Of course, there will also be an expiry date on the contract for the terminal, at which stage the conditions could be renegotiated. I doubt anybody else will want to use T5 by that time though, once T2 is finished and a potential rework of T3 is underway.


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5524 times:

When Terminal 2 is done, will there be room for Air Canada there, to join the other Star carriers? Seems odd now having them in Terminal 3 instead. Having said that, I know almost all AC traffic to LHR would be O&D, so proximity to other Star carriers for connections is less important...

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7361 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5450 times:

Heathrow Airport Ltd charges are standard.

There is a Landing Charge which varies with the registered MTOW of the aircraft.

There is a parking charge for each 15 minutes or part thereof that varies with the size and position of the stand (remote or airbridge).

There is a per passenger handling charge.

Parking charges apply to all parts of the airport excepting the BA Maintenance area at the east end of the airport that belongs to BA (leased or owned? - I am not sure). So airlines (like QF and SA) park their aircraft that spend a long time on the ground at LHR in the BA maintenance area as they are charged less than Heathrow Airport Ltd would charge them to park on a remote stand.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
- Allows the airline to save a lot in operational costs -- having a single centralised operation (and a smaller secondary one) is far cheaper than have 3-4 small operations (I'm referring to things like lounges, baggage systems, check-in facilities/staff etc).

BA has never had the luxury of operating from a single LHR terminal.

Before T5 opened they operated out of T!, T3 and T4 (but not T2).

After T5 opened they "centralised" operations out of T3 and T5 (but not T1 or T4).

After the formation of IAG IB moved all their flights to T5.

With the take over of BD, BA now operates out of T1, T3 and T5 (but not T4). There is little if any possibility of BA ceasing to operate out of any of these three terminals in the forseeable future. T5 is too small for them to even contemplate moving all their flights into it. Indeed without significant internal changes T5 does not have large enough facilities to handle the combined domestic passenger volume of BA and BD that will become the domestic passenger volume of BA alone 28 October.

On the plus side (for BA) it sits on the users committees of three of the four current LHR terminals. It can therefore "keep an eye" on what its competitors are doing or planning at LHR excepting only the Sky Team and independent carriers operating from T4.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5380 times:

All STAR carriers will move to the new T2. As stated above, it is the STAR terminal.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24629 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
BA are the national flag carrier

That term is now obsolete, especially where airlines are not government-owned. VS is just as much a UK flag carrier as BA on the routes VS operates.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 14):
When Terminal 2 is done, will there be room for Air Canada there, to join the other Star carriers? Seems odd now having them in Terminal 3 instead.

Many Star Alliance carriers other than AC use T3. Others are CA, NH, MS, ET, SK, SQ, TG, TK.


User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 12):
I still would like to know is it possible that other airlines would move their operations to T5 at some point?

Not likely. T5 is full, and even BA can't get all of their flights there. They still have to use T1 and T3 for some operations. I have to transfer BA to BA, T5 to T3 next month, which takes a fair amount of time.   

[Edited 2012-09-19 17:00:14]


Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
So airlines (like QF and SA) park their aircraft that spend a long time on the ground at LHR in the BA maintenance area as they are charged less than Heathrow Airport Ltd would charge them to park on a remote stand.

QANTAS used to daystop a single B744 at the #1 Maintenance Base but that stopped once the A380s came. They are just parked up on 596 / 595 most days. The daystopping Cathay no longer gets towed across but the new daystopping SQ B77W does park on the old BeaLine base. I imagine BA charge a fee but it would be less than BAA.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
Heathrow Airport Ltd charges are standard.

Are you absolutely sure? I was told that airlines in the older terminals paid less as facilities were much more basic than the newer ones.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 18):
T5 is full,

Yeah it's busy, not sure it's "full". Last few flights I have taken, on departure there was evidently enough room at T5 to take three more B744s at certain times of the day, i.e. the ex JSA Australian flights would fit into T5 at the relevant times of the day.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7361 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
That term is now obsolete, especially where airlines are not government-owned. VS is just as much a UK flag carrier as BA on the routes VS operates.

Branson thinks that VS are "Britain's Flag Carrier":

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Photo © Robert Ralph - Civil Aviation Imagery



User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4820 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 12):
I still would like to know is it possible that other airlines would move their operations to T5 at some point?

You remind of those kid at shopping malls begging their mum for a lollie pop...

With all the detailed responses why would any other carrier be based at T5...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineCOPolynesianPub From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

I also believe that UA (former CO flights) still use T4 at LHR.

User currently offlinefuturestar68 From Austria, joined May 2004, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting COPolynesianPub (Reply 22):

True. I just arrived on UA 4 from Houston, (ex) CO-flight, and we arrived at terminal 4. Had to take the bus over to terminal one for my connection (LH), but it took only a couple minutes.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2946 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):

They are significantly more centralised now than they were a decade ago. They were all over the place before T5 opened.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
Are you absolutely sure? I was told that airlines in the older terminals paid less as facilities were much more basic than the newer ones.

I would have thought that the basic passenger charges would be uniform, but BA would pay extra for exclusive use of T5 and for access to a far superior facility.


25 skipness1E : That's being removed as we speak, the new scheme doesn't even have the Union Flag winglets. They used to be in Skyteam so they went to Terminal 4 wit
26 Post contains links VV701 : Reasonably sure. There is no mention of any variation in any of the charges between different terminals in the Heathrow Airport Ltd Schedule of Charg
27 LOWS : Lufthansa has that. All of the terminals are under one roof. When the new terminal for non-Star Alliance airlines opens on the other side of the airp
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