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CBS Hawaii Rumor: DL To Acquire HA  
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 31391 times:

KGMB-TV (CBS affiliate - Hawaii) just reported that there is a rumor circulating that DL has plans to acquire HA. This doesn't make sense as HA really doesn't have anything except a route to HND that DL doesn't have already. Yes, there is fleet commonality, but DL has cheaper ways to acquire the same type aircraft for less than acquiring an airline. How in the world do rumors such as this get started?


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30964 times:
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Must have been a slow news day and someone in the newsroom was browsing airliners.net!

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9959 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30926 times:

Quoting timf (Reply 1):
Must have been a slow news day and someone in the newsroom was browsing airliners.net!

The station's resident aviation "expert" is president of the aviation club at the high school. He's not available for comment because he's in the middle of gym class.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30881 times:

I wouldn't see why DL would actually have an interest in HA. As stated above, DL flies most of HA'S routes to the mainland and Asia, so not much of a benefit there.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30788 times:
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Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
I wouldn't see why DL would actually have an interest in HA. As stated above, DL flies most of HA'S routes to the mainland and Asia, so not much of a benefit there.

Maybe some body at Delta "Consulting" in Atlanta decided having a hub in the middle of the Pacific Ocean would be a good idea. Honolulu to Hong Kong and Singapore could be coming ? Are they within A330-200 range from HNL ?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9959 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30737 times:

Quoting HNL-Jack (Thread starter):

Could find NO reference to this on the station's website.................????



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30630 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):

Could be. DL obviously aren't strangers to overseas hubs.


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30597 times:

Say it ain't so! HA is the LAST good US domestic carrier.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1411 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30470 times:

If DL ever made a move on HA (and/or AS) in the future, I'd hope they would try something more innovative and keep the acquired brand intact marketing wise.

"Hawaiian Airlines, A Delta Air Lines Company".

There is too much upside for whomever owns Hawaiian to keep Hawaiian Hawaiian.
Same with AS.

[Edited 2012-09-19 10:32:22]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 30271 times:

I seriously hope this isn't true, the ending result would be a disaster.


Allons-y!
User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 30151 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Maybe some body at Delta "Consulting" in Atlanta decided having a hub in the middle of the Pacific Ocean would be a good idea. Honolulu to Hong Kong and Singapore could be coming ? Are they within A330-200 range from HNL ?

Sure look to be... HNL-SIN is 6711nm and HNL-HKG is 5568nm

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hnl-hkg%0D%0Ahnl-sin&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=180

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29888 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Maybe some body at Delta "Consulting" in Atlanta decided having a hub in the middle of the Pacific Ocean would be a good idea. Honolulu to Hong Kong and Singapore could be coming ? Are they within A330-200 range from HNL ?

It is decently enough located within 767 or A330 range of both the U.S. mainland and a good bit of Asia, so it would work from that standpoint. The question that has been brought up before is whether people will connect in HNL on their journey rather than hopping a n/s flight from the U.S. to Asia.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29659 times:

Another thing to note: DL's A330s have P&W engines, while HA's have Rolls. Still, that didn't stop US from adding Rolls-powered A332s to their P&W A333 fleet.


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29450 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 12):
Another thing to note: DL's A330s have P&W engines, while HA's have Rolls. Still, that didn't stop US from adding Rolls-powered A332s to their P&W A333 fleet.

Not really an issue, engines are not overhauled by airlines themselves anymore. If a different engine was am issue could you imagine what a problem GE and Boeing would have with the 777-300ER ? It has sold beyond Boeing dreams and many were NOT GE 777 operators.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29458 times:

Quoting timf (Reply 1):
Must have been a slow news day and someone in the newsroom was browsing airliners.net!

  

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
I wouldn't see why DL would actually have an interest in HA. As stated above, DL flies most of HA'S routes to the mainland and Asia, so not much of a benefit there.

One could argue that DL has a "hub" of sorts at HNL. No reason to merge with HA because I doubt neither side would benefit.

Plus either way I hope it's not true, because the HA livery is beautiful!



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29391 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Honolulu to Hong Kong and Singapore could be coming ? Are they within A330-200 range from HNL ?

Why would they want to fly those routes I do wonder?

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 10):
Sure look to be... HNL-SIN is 6711nm and HNL-HKG is 5568nm

HNL-SIN would splash down long before landing safely. Delta's A330-200s are not the most recent gross weight, and even if they were, 6711nm is pushing it.

NS


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 29210 times:

Great Circle Mapper calculates in Statute Miles, not NM. 6711 sm = 5800nm.

User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 28992 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 16):

Good point... My mistake

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 28959 times:

Quoting HNL-Jack (Thread starter):
This doesn't make sense as HA really doesn't have anything except a route to HND that DL doesn't have already.

Couldn't Delta purchase the airline with the (unstated) intention of scuttling a competitor over the long haul? Look at US Air's purchase of PSA - A few years later, US Air simply dropped virtually the entire PSA network. Didn't AA do the same with TWA? AA and Renoair?

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 9):
I seriously hope this isn't true, the ending result would be a disaster.

It really would be. I realize I am no expert in the field, but based on past observations, I just don't see Delta continuing the flights currently operated by HA if it buys the airline. Those would be some pretty 330s to have on hand though!


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 28903 times:

I don't think this is so crazy. NW also had a strong relationship with HA. With HA now in an intra-island monopoly and building up their intl options, I don't think it is so crazy. I don't know if the cost-side works with DL labor. Aside from that it makes network sense and would help Delta gain share on the West Coast where they are weak.

User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1230 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 28836 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 16):
Great Circle Mapper calculates in Statute Miles, not NM. 6711 sm = 5800nm.

I guess many people forget you can change it to NM right under the Dist+Time tab.

Here is the correct nm numbers:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hnl-hkg%0D%0Ahnl-sin&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 28774 times:
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It is a good way to pick up some more 717's?

88 from WN aren't enough.   



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 28175 times:

HA, with their beautiful livery, in Skyteam would be absolutely horrible. I would rather see them in OW or at least Star.

Such a merger would reduce competition on the US-Australia route.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 28065 times:

I think it's rather suspicious when an official news agency is making a RUMOR into a newsworthy event. That said, this rumor is nothing new. Labor costs are high at HA and so is morale. I see this speculation happening purely because HA is successful and you become a target when others notice your success.

User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 27917 times:

First off, why would DL want to buy HA? And who sez HA wants to sell? I don't believe DL has vaults full of money just to through out there. I love these rumors!!!! I'm buying Aroflot stock because my insiders say they are going to buy AA.

25 Post contains images mayor : As I mentioned before, I can find no information on the station's website, to verify this "rumor".
26 Post contains images ASA : Maybe the station outsourced the rumoring job to the experts at airliners.net
27 Post contains images HAL : This rumor has been making the rounds like clockwork for years. I hear it about every other month, usually from someone at DL who breathlessly comes u
28 peanuts : I'm not saying this is happening but : Market Cap: AS $2.44 Billion (that's $2,440 Million for those in Rio Linda) HA $300 Million HA would be consid
29 catiii : That's a good analysis, but respectfully I would disagree. Being able to beachhead @ HNL, dehub NRT (and consequently tell the Japanese to get lost a
30 sfoa380 : ...and AirCal
31 yellowtail : Sounds like good logic to me. and no one on the site could ever accuse DL of not trying to think outside the box (eg oil refinery, slot swaps, P2P at
32 BoeingGuy : I remember people in the industry telling me in 1999 that it was inevitable that AA was going to buy out AS in the (then) very near future. It was ju
33 bobnwa : I would think that AS would not agree with that. Disaster for who?
34 DualQual : I would wager Scope clauses on both sides would prevent that. As both groups operated 767s/A330s/and soon 717s, keeping the groups separate could lea
35 ScottB : How did the Japanese "screw" DL on the HND deals? All the long-haul slots at HND are at undesirable times for now. Closing the hub at NRT makes no se
36 seabosdca : Cost structure, people! The HA network is a low-yield network. HA makes it work because their costs are quite low (at least quite low in a Hawaii cont
37 Post contains images jaybird : I would think the State of Hawaii would step in and require any carrier interested in purchasing Hawaiian Airlines make guarantees about the interisla
38 EA CO AS : Actually, my dream scenario is one where Alaska Air Group acquires HA, but keeps them a wholly-separate company under the Alaska Air Group banner. Ro
39 DeltaMD90 : Hmm well I call BS. And I really really would not doubt the source of this rumor was A.net... there was a thread on this not too long ago. It wouldn't
40 9252fly : The most interesting thing in this thread is the mention of SIN. That's not a destination I would imagine HA ever flying to until I thought about the
41 peanuts : Agreed. I think the first one to make a move on HA will actually spark a bidding war. HA may be a sitting duck right now.[Edited 2012-09-19 15:27:28]
42 seabosdca : It's a long route -- borderline, at best, for a densely configured A332. HA could definitely fly it with one of their pending A358s, but it would be
43 Post contains images n901wa : Man, I have been hearing this rumor since the Magoon days But I gotta say, I have been hearing it from the HAL side since Delta has been doing the MTC
44 Revelation : Why not just tactical? HA is in a good intra-island monopoly position, perhaps is punching above their weight, and DL is said to perhaps know somethi
45 dwightm : There is always the cahnce that Delta can take a great airline like Hawaiian and turn it into another PSA, AirCal, Reno Air, TWA, etc.
46 BoeingGuy : Tell that to AS. They've grown well. And they make a profit independently without becoming another PSA, Air Cal, Hughes Airwest, Reno Air or TWA.
47 Bobloblaw : This rumor has floated around DL HDQ some while ago. The reason why is Delta wants more Asia routes. Frankly, I dont see that Hawaiian brings anything
48 Deltal1011man : uhhhh.....You know Delta overhauls almost ever single engine in its, and Delta Connection's fleet?
49 StuckInCA : Step in how? Honest question as I have no idea what a state could have to do with it. What can they do other than control tax incentives? If it's tha
50 HNL-Jack : It could be argued that the pull out by CO from the secondary markets in California in the late 70's along with the acquisitions of PSA, Air Cal, Hug
51 Post contains images mayor : Except it wasn't DL that did that but AA & US. I still find nothing on this, searching KGMB's website. Can you tell me where the "report" is?
52 HNL-Jack : Howard Dicus business report on KGMB/KHNL Sunrise morning show between 6:30 and 7am this morning the 19th.
53 Post contains links airportugal310 : Read here: http://blogs.hawaiinewsnow.com/howard/ He very much thinks it won't happen. Nexxxxt.......
54 Post contains images delta88 : Guess Delta didnt have enough to eat, with NWA, now the Southwest/AirTran 717s, and now this! Guess Delta wants more and more and more, Deltas trying
55 Post contains images JONC777 : Maybe DL simply wants the on-time performance improvement? HA is always on the top of the list
56 NWAESC : DL does MRO work for HA. Does that not include engines? I think it might, actually- certainly on the ground side of things... This, IMO, would be muc
57 bobnwa : I don't think PSA,Air Cal, Reno Air, would fit the label of great airline.
58 catiii : They negotiated a a deal with the United States that disadvantaged and undermined Delta's NRT hub. DL doesn't have an immunized alliance with any of
59 bobnwa : I would doubt that the subject of Delta's NRT hub even came up during the Japanese/American negotiations regarding HND.
60 BoeingGuy : PSA was an awesome airline. They were the original LLC but many years. PSA tought WN how to do it. Not sure everyone realizes that. PSA was very inno
61 catiii : There was an extensive discussion over it during the Open Skies negotiation that liberalized Haneda. It was a major issue.
62 Post contains images lightsaber : Start a merger right before WN gains ETOPS on their 738s?!? AS and WN would eat the merged airline apart. Best for HA to stay independent and hungry.
63 Post contains images mayor : So, basically, I guess to fill up space, he's reporting a rumor, which he doesn't believe, as a news report......is that about right? BTW, thanks for
64 catiii : WN who has botched their AirTran acquistion, has spiraling labor costs, and who can't connect onward to Asia or bring over Asian O/D traffic to Hawai
65 jfk777 : It could but most likely the engines are overhauled by the manufacturer, Rolls Royce for the A330 and so on.
66 bobnwa : Were you priv to the negtiations?
67 Post contains images peanuts : I don't know. DL's refinery idea caught a few of us off guard. They've been thinking out of the box. Maybe DL wants more HND slots??? Maybe DL wants
68 catiii : Yes, I was. Additionally, there's any manner of open source material on this. Sort of back to the OP: I know Hawaiian has reiterated its commitment t
69 bobnwa : I am impressed that you were at the meetings between the American and Japanese negotiators. Did the meetings take place in Japan or the US? Can you g
70 Viscount724 : Eliminating a competitor would be the main benefit. You coud cut a lot of capacity and raise fares.
71 Post contains images scbriml : Oh I hope this doesn't happen. Losing HA would be very sad.
72 strfyr51 : If the rumour is true then delta has scored a GREAT Coup. This would darn sure be good for Delta though I'm not so sure about Hawaiian. But!! That's t
73 airportugal310 : Are you even remotely serious?
74 anonms : "Outer Two Air Group"? "Not CONTUS Air Group"?
75 JONC777 : While maybe it hasnt happend as fast as WN would have liked it too. . . id say its too early to call it 'botched' esp given the last QTR profit. Whoe
76 ha763 : Not really. Howard Dicus' job at Hawaii News Now includes a role as a commentator in addition to business reporter. Commentators offer commentary and
77 Deltal1011man : The Trents are power by the hour. (TechOps doesn't do any Rolls OHs. Delta's Rolls go to American) Most of the HA deal is airframe work though. I don
78 B777ER : Seriously? The Japanese govt has sunk upwards of 50 million into JAL. They have a vested interest (literally) in seeing that JAL and ANA get the prim
79 koruman : To put readers who aren't familiar with Hawaii out of their misery, there is a blatant flaw to this story. CBS Hawaii doesn't have a news arm. They me
80 n901wa : Im not sure if HAL owns or leases the CF-6 on the 4 ExDelta 767, but I know the overhaul is done by Delta in ATL. They also have a aggrement with a sp
81 RWA380 : And AirCal, but none of those carriers had what HA has going for it, the spirit of Hawaiiana, O'Hana and Aloha. DL's corporate machine could never re
82 rwy04lga : As mentioned earlier, you can switch between KM, SM, and NM. Last Two Air Group? 49 & 50 Air Group?
83 HAL : 49 + 50 = "99 Airlines"! HAL
84 seabosdca : Eh, it's still worth discussing, because it's a rumor that arises often from many different sources. And it's exactly the sort of thing that a lot of
85 Bluewave 707 : Pure garbage! It's sad when a "so-called expert" reveals this without providing sources ... i agree with HAL, that it would make no financial sense fo
86 Deltal1011man : I *think* Delta does power by the hour for the HA CF6s. and that may be true on the pratts. Next time I get a chance I'll run over to the PW4000 line
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