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Philippine Aviation 2012 #2  
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 713 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

So! Here we are again with a new Philippine thread, post away folks!

First of:

Philippine Airline will increase and change their operations in Australia from current five weekly MNL-SYD-MEL-MNL (and vice versa) into two separate dedicated services for a total of daily flights to the country, starting October 31.

Manila – Sydney
PR211 MNL2040 – 0755SYD 77W 1x3x5x7
PR212 SYD0945 – 1500MNL 77W 12x4x6x

Manila – Melbourne
PR209 MNL2040 – 0750MEL 77W x2x4x6x
PR210 MEL0950 – 1500MNL 77W xx3x5x7
----------

The ICN-CEB route will see a great jump in capacity starting this winter!
*Zest Air will boost their services going from twice weekly to daily!
*Korean will deploy a daily 747-400 instead of the 737-900 planned for this winter or A330-300 that is currently flying.
----------

The Philippines and the United Arab Emirates successfully held a meeting a few weeks ago where they agreed to increase entitlements for carriers.
Previously, UAE carriers were allowed two daily flights and Philippine carriers two daily aswell, for a total of four.
This has now been doubled to four daily flights from UAE and four daily from the Philippines, for a total of eight.

As none of the Philippine entitlements were used, these were instead used by EK and EY, thus enabling them to operate double daily flights each.
But as we all know, both PR and 5J are now very keen on flying to UAE. So my question is how you guys think these new entitlements will be used?
In my opinion, I can't really see PR and 5J operating a total of four daily to the country, so I think that EK and EY both will keep their "borrowed" entitlements and add a new third daily service each, for a total of six.
The remaining 2 daily will probably be shared by PR (daily DXB, or 4pwDXB + 3pwAUH) and 5J (daily DXB, or 4pwDXB + 3pwAUH)!
----------

Domestic air travel during H1 grew by 13,3%
http://www.rappler.com/business/1100...ir-passengers-to-11-m-in-h1,-up-13
International air travel during H1 grew by 7,4%
http://www.rappler.com/business/1260...e-int-l-passengers-to-8-63-m-in-h1

I found a few numbers interesting. The average number of passengers on

EY MNL flights during Q2 stood at 400 (97% LF)
EK MNL flights during Q2 stood at 424 (96% LF).

EY MNL flights during H1 stood at 380 (92% LF)
EK MNL flights during H1 stood at 418 (95% LF)
----------
/Alex


I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8090 times:

Quoting CityAirline (Thread starter):
so I think that EK and EY both will keep their "borrowed" entitlements and add a new third daily service each
Quoting CityAirline (Thread starter):
EK MNL flights during Q2 stood at 424 (96% LF).

... and now (01JAN13), EMIRATES IS FINALLY ADDING A THIRD DAILY FLIGHT TO MANILA!

As we all know, EK has for a long time often been full or even overbooked at MNL, so this was a good move. I suppose EY will be quick in adding a third flight aswell.

EK332 DXB0400 – 1600MNL 77W D
EK334 DXB1030 – 2230MNL 77W D
EK336 DXB1830 – 0630+1MNL 77W D NEW

EK335 MNL0020 – 0525DXB 77W D
EK337 MNL0845 – 1350DXB 77W D NEW
EK333 MNL1735 – 2240DXB 77W D

/Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7956 times:

More interesting perhaps is this announcement.....

http://business.inquirer.net/84126/s...rabia-philippines-ink-new-air-deal

Quote:
"The Philippine government has signed a new deal with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to increase flights as local airlines pursue aggressive expansion plans.

Following two days of negotiations this week, the local air panel signed the bilateral air service agreement (ASA) for flights to the Middle East, where millions of Filipinos work.

Under the new deal, flights between Manila and Jeddah were more than doubled to 21 a week from the current 10.

The agreement also removed restrictions to the number of flights between Clark Freeport, Pampanga, to any point in Saudi Arabia. In return, the country agreed to remove limits on the number of flights between Damman and any point in the Philippines.

[.....]

For instance, Cebu Pacific, which will take delivery of four brand-new Airbus A330-300 planes in 2013, said it would start long-haul flights to the United States and the Middle East by next year.

Also, flag carrier Philippine Airlines plans to focus on major domestic routes and expand its international operations. Minor domestic routes, meanwhile, will be transferred to sister firm Air Philippines.

At the moment, no local airline has flights to the Middle East.

Earlier this month, the Philippines and the United Arab Emirates agreed to significantly increase flights between them as both countries look to boost their trade and tourism sectors."



After years of neglect, OFWs in the Kingdom will finally get to fly home on their "own"...   

Not sure if the national entitlements would be shared equally by PR and 5J. Both competing for the same market might give an edge to mideast carriers with extremely deeper pockets.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 2):
For instance, Cebu Pacific, which will take delivery of four brand-new Airbus A330-300 planes in 2013, said it would start long-haul flights to the United States and the Middle East by next year.

Are PR and 5J being optimistic in starting new to the US next year? Is there another inspection to take place that could let them achieve Cat I status?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7925 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 3):
Are PR and 5J being optimistic in starting new to the US next year? Is there another inspection to take place that could let them achieve Cat I status?

Their recent orders of IGW A333s are probably indicative of their expectations regarding new US routes. The article's reference to 5J's previous statement (since played down by the carrier) only pertained to 5J's Hawaii aspiration.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 4):
The article's reference to 5J's previous statement (since played down by the carrier) only pertained to 5J's Hawaii aspiration.

So are PR and 5J allowed to start new Hawaii flights but not mainland ones? If so why doesn't PR consider additional flights to HNL or are the restricted to a particular air agreement?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7639 times:

According to local forums, Project Winter Domestic is starting to be implemented on PR's website. Some of the routes which will shift to 2P are no longer bookable on PR's website, although there is word that there will be codesharing and livery benefits, as was the case with the old PAL Express. Mabuhay Miles will also be accruable on PAL Express flights, like before.

User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

An exercise of options very close to their original order of IGW A333s appear in at least a couple of online aviation media.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...l-orders-10-a330s-for-25bn-377043/

Quote:
"Philippine Airlines (PAL) has exercised options to buy 10 Airbus A330-300 aircraft for $2.5 billion, with deliveries planned in 2013-2014.

The deal was confirmed by company president and chief operating officer Ramon Ang.

Media reports from the Philippines quote Ang as saying that the company exercised the options two weeks ago.

Today's deal follows PAL's 54 Airbus buy in August worth $7 billion and comprising 34 A321s, 10 A321neos and 10 higher-weight Airbus A330-300s. The 10 aircraft deal today is also for the higher-weight A330."



The indicated price raised questions about the actual model on order. As of yet, no corresponding press release is posted on Airbus' site. Lack of information on the powerplant adds to the mystery...though PR announced they were getting Rollers. These lead to speculations about the A350, or the engines being included.

In any case, a hundred-strong fleet does fuel concerns of the carrier becoming over-leveraged.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7444 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 7):
34 A321s, 10 A321neos

What mission would the regular A321s do as well as the neos? Couldn't they have gone for mainly neos and no regulars?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 8):

The full reports of the original order and threads here on those had the details. PR didn't want to wait till the NEOs are available.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7428 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 8):
What mission would the regular A321s do as well as the neos?

My guess:

*A321: high-density domestic routes, maybe some short regional routes (MNL-HKG, MNL-MFM)
*A321neo: short-to-medium-range regional (intra-Asia) routes


User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

The new, additional HGW A333s are perhaps meant to replace all of PR's old A330s, and may answer the OP's questions in the other thread ( Philippines Airlines' Arabian Gulf Plans? (by victortango Sep 28 2012 in Civil Aviation) ) as follows:

Quoting victortango (Thread starter):
Does anyone know if PR are planning to start any new Gulf routes, especially DXB?
.
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 2):

Both UAE and the Philippines were recently granted additional entitlements.


As did Saudi Arabia. It might look like this.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mnl-dxb-jed&MS=wls&DU=nm

.....or like this on alternate days.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mnl-+dxb+/+jed


Quoting CityAirline (Reply 2):
Yes, both PR and 5J are planning new routes to the Middle East!


Based on news reports, 2P could do the high density LCC flights to DMM...with 5J getting DOH, DXB or MCT.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mnl-dmm&DU=nm

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mnl+-+doh+/+dxb+/+mct

[Edited 2012-09-29 09:34:03]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

Speaking of the Middle East, will this mean PAL will start discontinuing its codeshare agreements with GF, EK, EY and QR?

User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

PAL needs to seriously look at MNL-KWI nonstop with the A333. Currently KU flies 6 times per week via BKK using an old A343 to MNL which does not cater to market demand as GF/EK/QR/EY all have larger market share.

If PR can somehow manage to initially launch KWI-MNL nonstop 5 times per week using an A333, it is guaranteed to see high loads and decent yields as it will be offering a convenient nonstop product. FYI the annual market size between MNL and KWI is 125,000 pax !


User currently offlinevictortango From India, joined Jan 2005, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6974 times:

Quote:
PAL needs to seriously look at MNL-KWI nonstop with the A333.

Wouldn't MNL-DXB be more beneficial? With Filipino traffic is all about the baggage allowance. Simply because of the expat population who generally travel home once in 2 years. IIRC years ago PR used to offer 50kgs FBA from DXB to MNL. Reasonable fares with about 40-50kgs FBA thrown will certainly fill up seats.

I understand EK/EY dominate on the UAE-MNL route, however I certainly think PR can grab a huge chunk off CX and SQ who also carry a large number of Filipinos.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

According to my statistics, CX carried almost as much traffic on MNL-DXB last year as EK.
so in some ways it is a fallacy to suggest that EK dominates the sectors.

Airline Year Passengers
EK 2010 197921
CX 2010 180520

CX 2011 161440
EK 2011 147312


User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Those numbers are not correct! Please explain to me how CX can carry more passengers on the route, when EK has double daily 77Ws to MNL, and CX doesn't even have that capacity to HKG?
Besides, EK carried around 600,000 passengers on DXB-MNL last year, not 147,000.
Maybe the CX statistics are right, but not the EK ones. Where did you get these twisted figures?



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6576 times:

The order is now confirmed on Airbus' website.....

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...ine-airlines-orders-10-more-a330s/

Quote:
"Philippine Airlines (PAL) has placed a firm order with Airbus for an additional 10 A330-300 widebody aircraft. The latest purchase agreement follows a major order from the airline in August for 44 single aisle A321s and 10 A330s under the carrier’s fleet modernisation programme.

For its latest order the airline has selected the 240 tonne high gross weight version of the A330, offering extra range capability. This will enable the airline to operate the aircraft non-stop from Manila to any destination in the Asia-Pacific region, as well as to the Middle East and as far as Honolulu in the US."




Quoting Akiestar (Reply 12):
Speaking of the Middle East, will this mean PAL will start discontinuing its codeshare agreements with GF, EK, EY and QR?

It will likely be a gradual reduction of its codesharing arrangements as the new A333s begin delivery.


Quoting behramjee (Reply 13):
Currently KU flies 6 times per week via BKK using an old A343 to MNL which does not cater to market demand as GF/EK/QR/EY all have larger market share.

It's interesting to see what number of passengers to MNL transit at BAH.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum




"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6075 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Why are PR using an A320 on MNL-BKK-DEL, cant they maintain the route with A330?

User currently offlinevictortango From India, joined Jan 2005, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6301 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 15):
According to my statistics, CX carried almost as much traffic on MNL-DXB last year as EK.
so in some ways it is a fallacy to suggest that EK dominates the sectors.

Those figures are absolutely incorrect.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 16):
explain to me how CX can carry more passengers on the route, when EK has double daily 77Ws to MNL, and CX doesn't even have that capacity to HKG?

        

EK operates 77Ws which seats in excess of 350 pax per aircraft, and CX, double daily on 330/340, one of which transits DXB from JED. CX max capacity on this route (assuming no transit pax from JED) is 547 seats per day! And this is to HKG not direct MNL.


User currently offlineRocket45 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6150 times:

This is a subject change but since this is a Philippine discussion I have been curious about an article in the Philippine Star newspaper on 5/8/12 where a new president was appointed for of Air Philippines now called Airphil Express. Polo sportsman Inigo Zobel. This is the first time he has accepted any executive position, he has been on the board of San Miguel but his passion for polo has been his full time job. He told the Star He will do his best to manage the airline even if he has other committments, primarily in polo competitions. This certainly is a unique background for an airline president. Of course Ang of San Miguel now manages Philippine Airlines and the name Zobel in the Philippines makes one stand up and salute. This must be what is call "a figure head" president. Any ideas?.

User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 796 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Found an interesting comment regarding PAL possibly going towards Oneworld :
Suppose it´s a mere wish rather than reality in the near future - no matter how dire OW´s situation is at the moment ...
(though I´d be happy to see PAL in OW !!!)

See: http://www.philippineairspace.blogsp.../frankfurt-here-we-come-again.html



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

In 2011 on the DXB-MNL-DXB route, a total of 540,000 passengers approximately flew in both directions and the respective market shares of the top airlines obtaining passengers were as follows:

Source: Shepherd System

1. EK 35% (this includes pax flying on EK but ticketed on PAL stock due to code share agreement in place)
2. CX 25%
3. SQ 11%
4. QR 7%

So yes CX does rely heavily on MNL to feed its DXB bound services, but it definitely does not have a higher market share than EK on the DXB-MNL-DXB sector.


User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6055 times:

Effective November 4th (arrival in MNL on the 5th) Hawaiian Airlines will be using the A330-200 on the HNL-MNL route. Same schedule, just increased capacity, cargo abilities and amenities.

User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5985 times:

Quoting MHG (Reply 21):

Found an interesting comment regarding PAL possibly going towards Oneworld :
Suppose it´s a mere wish rather than reality in the near future - no matter how dire OW´s situation is at the moment ...
(though I´d be happy to see PAL in OW !!!)

See: http://www.philippineairspace.blogsp....html

No. Just no.   


25 Post contains images MHG : Sorry for thes news ... Thought it could´ve made your day Ok, seriously: Why do they always talk step #3 before step #1 is done ?
26 Akiestar : Alliance news makes my day. But not PR entering oneworld. Under no circumstances will I ever support PR entering oneworld, so long as CX is there.
27 MHG : Somehow I understand your position ... But which Alliance would "fit" better ? Star ? I´m pretty sure SQ/TG would not want PR in Star.
28 Akiestar : SQ and TG didn't want each other to be in the same alliance, so their opposition to PR joining Star would be irrelevant if they themselves don't want
29 6thfreedom : Do the EK numbers also include pax flying MNL-DXB, and then onto elsewhere on the EK network? in other words, who has the largest OD market share, ra
30 behramjee : Hi...my numbers are purely O&D MNL-DXB-MNL and not network wide.
31 CityAirline : Hi everyone! PAL will integrate domestic operations of their LCC subsidiary AirphilExpress and Philippine Airlines in a very odd way that I don't unde
32 Akiestar : 2P is being rebranded back to PAL Express. The strategy now is that PR mainline will only handle high-yielding domestic and almost all international r
33 CityAirline : During the twelve months ending may this year, MNL handled 31,048,025 passengers, up by 1,5 million in five months after handling 29,5 million during
34 viasa : Did Philippine Airlines already chosen an engine for it's new A330-300s?
35 Post contains links Devilfish : Neither PR nor the engine OEMs have made any formal announcement. However, AW&ST ascribed to industry sources this bit of information..... http:/
36 Akiestar : Two important schedule changes that have come to my attention: First, MH is increasing flight frequencies to MNL. From 21x weekly, KUL-MNL will become
37 Post contains images Devilfish : Prime leisure destinations were not mentioned so I assume existing TP frequencies to MPH will remain? I'm not too fond of 2P's livery...and find PRX'
38 eaglefarm4 : I am aware that PR has applied for slots to DRW being a daily A320 from MNL however these flights will also continue onto BNE twice weekly,MEL twice w
39 Akiestar : MNL-DRW-MEL and MNL-DRW-SYD might make sense since it lets MEL have five times weekly service, and SYD have daily service. Australia, if I remember c
40 Post contains links Devilfish : I think this strongly qualifies as opening a new market..... http://business.inquirer.net/87362/pal-eyes-brazil Quote: "While plans to expand operati
41 Post contains links Devilfish : This unconfirmed blog item talks about PAL's declaration for air services to Saudi Arabia next year..... http://www.philippineairspace.blogsp...t.de/2
42 Akiestar : If MNL-GRU was to be done trans-Pacific, I suggested MEX in the previous thread. Or it could fly to Brazil via Australia, where there are currently n
43 Post contains images CityAirline : Very good news, I have been waiting for this one. Although surprised to see them keep the CGK tag-on on their SIN flight after making the nonstop CGK
44 Post contains links and images Devilfish : I think PR is leaving both destinations for 2P to slug it out with the locals and 5J. Meanwhile, on the domestic front...MAS Wings is reported to be
45 Akiestar : One word (or two, depending on how you interpret it): BIMP-EAGA. BIMP-EAGA has had open skies for a while, and while there has been a boom on flights
46 Post contains links and images Devilfish : It's looking more like going OneWorld's way..... http://www.philippineairspace.blogsp...2/10/sabre-ticket-to-oneworld.html Quote: "Flag Carrier Phili
47 Post contains links and images Akiestar : I am pleased to announce that Philippine Airlines now has a new website! http://www1.philippineairlines.com (The site is still reportedly in beta: it
48 Post contains images CityAirline : Jeju Air will launch ICN-CEB starting november 21. This will amazingly be the SIXTH carrier on the route, along with Philippine, Cebu, Zest, Korean an
49 Post contains links Devilfish : Apparently, this blog does..... http://www.philippineairspace.blogsp...012/11/pal-expands-down-under.html Quote: " Philippine Airlines (PAL) is addin
50 Post contains links LAXintl : DOT approved Cebu Air applications to serve Guam, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Saipan and San Francisco. Cebu''s application however only allows it to condu
51 aznmadsci : On a side note, is there anytime line or any word on which airlines are moving to NAIA 3 in the near future? I also remember reading they were plannin
52 Post contains links covert : Evidently, San Miguel Corp., one of the richest companies in the PI and part owner of PR is looking to buy a stake in a carrier in the Cayman Islands
53 Post contains links Devilfish : At first blush I thought it was 5J who would lease IT's A345s from AJW but realized they needed a Cat-1 AOC. Then I remembered PR's play for Cayman a
54 Post contains links LAXintl : Yes. We have a thread on the topic also Philippine Airlines Eyes Stake In Cayman Airways (by airlineaddict Nov 13 2012 in Civil Aviation) =
55 Post contains links CityAirline : Cebu Pacific is launching MNL-DPS twice weekly on March 16 next year: http://www.cebupacificair.com/pages/PressReleases.aspx?pid=833 Traffic on Manila
56 Post contains links Akiestar : Philippine Airlines has finally (and I mean finally) introduced online check-in for domestic flights, with international flights to follow at a later
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