AF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 months 4 days ago) and read 17520 times:
Congrats to ANA and Boeing. The B787 must be working well for them, and this is clearly a great sign of confidence
Quote: All Nippon Airways (ANA) has ordered another 11 Boeing 787-9s.
The aircraft will be delivered between the 2018 and 2021 fiscal years, says the Japanese carrier.
This brings its total order for the 787 aircraft to 66, divided between 36 787-8s and 30 787-9s. Boeing has delivered 13 787-8s to the aircraft's launch customer.
All of ANA's existing 787s are powered by the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000, although the airline has not revealed an engine selection for its new order.
Faddypainter From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16959 times:
Quoting AF185 (Thread starter): All of ANA's existing 787s are powered by the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000, although the airline has not revealed an engine selection for its new order.
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16872 times:
I think the 789 would be a perfect plane for SAS, not too small not too big, opens up for longer routes if needed too. 2-4-2 cabin would be a perfect way to go..in my dreams..
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7347 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16355 times:
ANA orders more 787-9's, where are they going to fly all these birds too ? ANA should fly to Newark with one to UA's New York hub, its funny how no Japanesse airline has ever flown to Newark.
boeingbus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16358 times:
This is an endorsement of the 787's reliability and profitability thus far.... Great news for Boeing in an otherwise shaky time after all the engine issues they are facing.
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1191 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16017 times:
Only 11? They must not be happy with them. (JUST KIDDING. ITS A JOKE PEOPLE)
ANA must like the performance of the plane - I'm dying to hear some updated info on efficiency and performance from the first 787 carrier!
The press release says the 787-9 has similar fuel efficiency to the 787-8 but with more seats. What exactly does that mean? Are they saying on a per seat basis or that they both use the same amount of fuel to fly the same distance?
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4006 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15279 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9): The press release says the 787-9 has similar fuel efficiency to the 787-8 but with more seats. What exactly does that mean? Are they saying on a per seat basis or that they both use the same amount of fuel to fly the same distance?
It sounds kind of like the 762 vs 763...similar overall fuel burn per trip, but the bigger airplane has more seats and more cargo space so better profitability. I expect the 789 will be the best seller of the 787 family over time.
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15251 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9): The press release says the 787-9 has similar fuel efficiency to the 787-8 but with more seats. What exactly does that mean? Are they saying on a per seat basis or that they both use the same amount of fuel to fly the same distance?
According to aspire 2.4l/km per seat on the 789 compared to 2.6 on the 788.
rotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13739 times:
Quoting LY777 (Reply 2): Great news from ANA! Now, I am waiting for El Al to order 787s...
Quoting AF185 (Reply 3): That should happen sooner or later
Boeing gave them a loan for $40 million predicated on El Al buying or leasing 2 or more 787's. The version according to Wiki is the -8 for a delivery around 2015/2016. Assuming they would be replacing the 767's and older 777-200's I'd say they need a split of 10 -8's and 4 -9's.
Back to topic though, good to see the 787 performing as well as it is, as heavy as it is. The 787-9 looks to be a sure winner when it enters service. It wouldn't surprise me if we see more orders and/or conversions for the 787-9.
flyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 104 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12147 times:
This is a massive vote of confidence in the 787...ANA clearly like their early 788s, even though these early frames are sub-optimal. Once the mature frames come through, things will look even better.
Although the gestation of the 787 has been a lesson in how not to project manage, we're starting to see that the engineering design is fundamentally right...it's going to be a great airplane for many years to come.
deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1589 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11799 times:
ANyone know when we'll see the 787-9 prototype rolled out? I've looked and can't find info on how far along Boeing is with it. With all the interest and service to start by 2014 plus problems the 787-8 had I would think Boeing would be testing it as soon as 2013?
817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 1404 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11202 times:
Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 17): ANyone know when we'll see the 787-9 prototype rolled out? I've looked and can't find info on how far along Boeing is with it. With all the interest and service to start by 2014 plus problems the 787-8 had I would think Boeing would be testing it as soon as 2013?
The first -9 aircraft should roll out next year, not entirely sure when exactly, but my guess is around Q2-Q3.
Blast Reality, Burst it into shreds! Banishment, This World!
airproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 553 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10803 times:
Quoting sweair (Reply 5): I think the 789 would be a perfect plane for SAS, not too small not too big, opens up for longer routes if needed too. 2-4-2 cabin would be a perfect way to go..in my dreams..
Quoting sweair (Reply 15): That should read 2.4l/100km A quick check of SAS A340-300 that would have the size of the 789 it reads 3.9l/100km and their A330-300 has 3.3l/100km
The 789 is a good replacement for the A340-300 if range is important, otherwise A more modern A333 or 787-10 might be ok?
Yep, the 787-9 is a 343 killer. The 777 was already a big competitor, but the 787 will sooner or later be the logical replacement for any 343 remaining. Better step in the train before it goes....
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
WarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 516 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10770 times:
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 16): This is a massive vote of confidence in the 787...ANA clearly like their early 788s, even though these early frames are sub-optimal. Once the mature frames come through, things will look even better.
Stepping back a bit, ANA is making a great move in terms of fleet commonality by replacing two distinct aircraft types (763s/772s) with one (787-8/9) type that is very compatible with its existing 773s. With the phase-out of its 747s, ANA will have successfully optimized its long-haul fleet for efficiency.
And a 333 killer, once it's available in volume. It's marginally less capable (in terms of payload) than the 333, but fuel efficiency of the mature frames is going to be better by a non-trivial amount.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1589 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10518 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22): It's marginally less capable (in terms of payload) than the 333, but fuel efficiency of the mature frames is going to be better by a non-trivial amount.
WHy hasn't AIrbus countered this w/ an AIrbus 330NG or something? LIke 20 years from now assuming A350 is huge hit that will be more head to head more with the 777, the 787 assuming it continues to snowball will have market to self?
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1551 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10376 times:
Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 23): WHy hasn't AIrbus countered this w/ an AIrbus 330NG or something? LIke 20 years from now assuming A350 is huge hit that will be more head to head more with the 777, the 787 assuming it continues to snowball will have market to self?
I think they want to protect the A350-800, but it is not a wise idea IMO. The idea of covering 787+777 with one family is a mistake. A 777-X sort of ng of the A330 would be a much wiser move, if they could live with the A350-800 being a still born.
25 seabosdca: Up to this point, they've been relying on the A350 to counter the threat. I think the 359 will do a great job on the high end of the 333/789/772 capa
26 lightsaber: I would say. Anyone doubt ANA received a good deal? Even if just at options prices? GE has some used engines going cheap. They just need a new low tu
27 AusA380: Probably another example of poor decision making by QF - slow of the mark, cancels/defers orders for 787 for QF whilst an early operator buys more.
28 sweair: Looking at how the A330 has improved over the years the 787 may just be in the beginning of being a very good aircraft, the 777 has also improved vast
29 SCL767: It's been the logical replacement for the A343 for certain carriers for years now.
30 PIEAvantiP180: By any chance do you have a payload range chart? I'm really curious since A330-300 has a 20,000lbs higher operating empty weight, has a 33,000lbs low
31 seabosdca: I don't have the numbers here at work, but the short answer is that the 789's structural payload is slightly lower and its greater MTOW is to accommo
32 PIEAvantiP180: Thank you for that answer, now it makes sense.
33 airproxx: Indeed, but you can still find rather new A343 in service, that have been ordered while the first 787 slots were available. Quad-jet performances can
34 trent1000: Don't forget that ANA has relatively few international routes, but an incredibly extensive domestic network with some of the busiest routes in the wo
36 AusA380: Not intented as QF bashing - just pointing out that in a tough market, some airlines in this region are able to see the investment required (initial
37 carpethead: If not for expansion, as other have related easily a 772/772ER replacement. I doubt they go to EWR since they are going to double daily on JFK this O
38 aerorobnz: the extra 789s may also be used to increase capacity on the successful existing 788 flights like HND-FRA to free up 788s for growth opportunities and
39 babybus: It's sad that ANA don't see themselves as a big international carrier in the future. I would have had more confidence in them if they were able to buy
40 sweair: Are you serious?! I don't think many will agree with you.
41 mham001: Excellent news. And it was only 2-3 months ago, many here were calling the ANA CEO a liar when he talked about their pleasure with the planes. Apparen
42 DocLightning: They fly 77W's. Those are VLA's. In fact, they're the third largest airliner currently available to order after the A380 and 748i. Just because they
43 sweair: True, I just don't get some people, a VLA has to have double decks? You can stuff close to 500 seat sin a 77W, 480 iirc..
44 Stitch: I'm more confident that they can make money with a 215-seat 777-300ER than if they needed a 515-seat A380-800, but to each their own.
46 by738: ...and I thought the window shade blinds fiasco would put them off....
47 VC10er: First congratulations. Repeat business is the primary sign of client satisfaction! So a toast to Boeing and ANA. It just "feels" so slow to see 787's!
48 carpethead: The way NH configures their long-haul aircraft, the A388 would probably only seat 350 passengers. NH buying the A380 is another topic, highly doubtfu
49 ferpe: The 789 and the 333 are very similar with the 789 a nudge ahead in almost all aspects and a clearly longer range, here what my deliberations say; ....
50 OldAeroGuy: I believe your columns are mis-labeled.
51 ferpe: Worse than that, it is a total mixup ! Thanks for spotting it, here the correct version (I hope ) ................................A333...............
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A quick check of SAS A340-300 that would have the size of the 789 it reads 3.9l/100km and their A330-300 has 3.3l/100km
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