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SWA Flight Attendants Approve Hawaii  
User currently offlinehiloboy1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 81 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18881 times:

Let the beatings begin on why SWA to Hawaii isn't a good idea. I for one can't wait.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...eaking/170752786.html?id=170752786

Quote:

"Flight attendants have approved contract changes that will allow the carrier to operate flights to the islands and near-international destinations."

[Edited 2012-09-21 14:59:35]

176 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16877 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18845 times:

This is good news for the Hawaiian economy, more flights (especially more LCC flights) equals more tourism dollars of which the islands are dependent. I'll start the speculation:

OAK-HNL
OAK-OGG
OAK-LIH
OAK-KOA
LAS-HNL



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinehiloboy1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18825 times:

STT757,

I'll go with all but Vegas only because when Aloha was around they would have to make fuel stops, so maybe a LAS-OAK-HNL.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18711 times:

I would not be surprised to see OAK, LAX, SAN as the Hawaiian gateways.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineusairways787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18709 times:

Bags fly free on greyhound to HNL   

US787



"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18660 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3):

PHX? HOU? SAN?



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinehiloboy1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18634 times:

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 4):
Bags fly free on greyhound to HNL

This wouldn't be the first "Greyhound to HNL", if you were ever lucky/unlucky enough to fly on either Total Air or Air America you'll know what I mean.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18610 times:

Quote:
PHX? HOU? SAN?

Well I did say SAN but PHX may be reachable (not sure) but it would probably be too tight for SWA and HOU is not reachable without stoping. I could see PHX and HOU as well as others served with a no plane change but not nonstop



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1953 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 18569 times:

Good news. Don't mind another competitor in the Hawaii market. They have a lot of route pairings to work with too.

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1174 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18477 times:

Quoting hiloboy1 (Thread starter):
Let the beatings begin on why SWA to Hawaii isn't a good idea. I for one can't wait.

In reviewing the Hawaii market from the western U.S. at this point, this is what we have:


HNL:

AS - ANC / BLI / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SAN
G4 - BLI / BOI / EUG / FAT / LAS / MRY / AZA / SMX / GEG / SCK
HA - SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SFO / SMF / LAX / SAN / LAS / PHX
AA - LAX / SFO
UA - SFO / LAX
DL - SEA / LAX / SLC
US - PHX

OGG -

AS - ANC / BLI / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK / SMF / SAN
G4 - BLI
HA - SEA / SFO / OAK / LAX / LAS
AA - LAX
UA - LAX / SFO
DL - LAX / SLC
US - PHX

KOA -

AS - ANC / SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK
AA - LAX
UA - SFO / LAX
DL - LAX
US - PHX

LIH -

AS - SEA / PDX / SJC / OAK
AA - LAX
UA - SFO / LAX
DL - LAX
US - PHX


It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market but over the last year Alaska, Allegiant and, to an extent, Hawaiian have all filled in the gaps in the thinner markets. Where are the opportunities? Southwest's -800's won't go beyond the west coast without taking significant hits on the loads they can carry. I'm not beating up WN, they have a good product. I just don't see a whole lot of opportunity here for them. I think if they try to move into the Hawaii market they will only dilute yields for themselves and everyone else. Where I do think there IS a lot of opportunity for Southwest is in creating niche markets from the south, midwest and eastern U.S. (and to an extent, the southwestern U.S.) to cities in the Caribbean and northern South America. They have experience in these markets via AirTran already. The potential to use the aircraft for more than one round trip is much greater should they deploy them in this way - which is a big deal for WN. Flying aircraft to/from Hawaii pretty much renders that aircraft useless for much else. Just my thoughts - again, not trying to beat up on anyone, just the way I see it.


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18419 times:

WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18371 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):
Where are the opportunities?

You can't assume that just because there are certain carriers on a route means those carriers have locked in and have "taken their share" of passengers. WN can come in and easily leech of the other carriers to fill their planes even if the route has many carriers. WN has a very good brand and reputation among many loyal travelers

I think it makes a lot of sense... they tend to go to a lot of leisure routes and do well. Why not HI?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18382 times:

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 4):
Bags fly free on greyhound to HNL

I didn't realize that Greyhound had started flying planes?  

Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 9):
It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market but over the last year Alaska, Allegiant and, to an extent, Hawaiian have all filled in the gaps in the thinner markets.

I don't think the expansion into Hawaii is going to be very large for WN. It is mainly going to be to serve those who choose WN first on their existing travels, but don't have the option to the islands. If anything it is more about customer retention and serving the existing base while benefiting from expanding it a bit.


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18361 times:

Don't know if it been discussed or not but would HNL need more room for expansion should more LLC or legacy airlines add HNL to their route structure? As I've never been there I don't know but being on an island one can only build up and not out after a while.

User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18364 times:

Quote:
It's not as though there is only room for one airline in any particular market

I think SWA will try to not replace airlines flights but expand flights in Hawaii. OGG, KOA and LIH have a lot of opportunity and I could easily see them becoming the largest carrier their. HNL is just a given that they will serve. It has a lot of flights but I could see them doing well their too. They have a vast route network to connect with.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18327 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10):
WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities.


Very true how ever they will face stiff competition and to top it off those sectors will require more aircraft dedicated and tied up to those route. Do I think they will add it? YES Will they storm in and change the market completely? No. They will be another option and thats about it. It will also tap into the demand of its loyal fliers although if they are so pent up to go to Hawaii chances are they have and have experienced the far superior Hawaiian product which WN is at a disadvantage to.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinehiloboy1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18319 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster.



I don't believe this has anything to do with maturity, it's a nickname that has been around since SWA began to fly outside of Texas. As a matter of fact one of Southwest's Senior Pilot who is a good friend of mine since the mid 80's jokingly calls it that.

SWA to Hawaii will do what they've done for years, take folks where they want to go for a decent fare.


User currently offlineusairways787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18289 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
I didn't realize that Greyhound had started flying planes?

Don't really see the point of comments like these unless hey are to showcase the immaturity of the poster.

Hardly immature, sense of humor yes...



"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20671 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18262 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
I didn't realize that Greyhound had started flying planes?

They did for little while ...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hans-Werner Klein



 



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18135 times:

If WN has an operation in the islands, I wonder if they will also do some intra-hawaii stuff too.

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1174 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18137 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 10):
WN serves over 100,000,000 people each year currently, I'm sure some of them would stick with WN to Hawaii too. WN has a lot of connection possibilities.

I'm sure that there are some folks that would fly WN over other carriers because of their loyalty to them. Every airline has some loyal travelers. WN travelers have long been known for seeking value though and I don't see what value Southwest could offer over other carriers. As far as connections go, unless WN starts flying red eye flights the connection opportunities are limited to the western U.S., much of which is either already served nonstop or has a variety of connection opportunities already. Southwest has missed the boat on being able to offer something that isn't already offered. Another thought to consider where connections are concerned - Hawaii is not a huge destination from the southern, midwest and eastern part of the U.S. Many of those folks will opt for Florida or the Caribbean because it's closer and a whole lot more affordable. Southwest will never be able to bring fares down to a level that will make Hawaii an option for someone in Birmingham (or any other Southwest city on that side of the country) that is considering Florida or the Caribbean over Hawaii.

Southwest is well known for their "Southwest effect" which stimulates demand and creates opportunities for people to travel via air that might not normally, either because of previously high fares on other carriers or lack of nonstop service. I don't think it's going to be as effective in any of the Hawaii markets they could potentially serve. I can't see where Southwest can offer fares any lower than those already offered and still make money. All I can see them doing is moving in, adding flights and diluting the yields for others and for themselves. That just my opinion though.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
You can't assume that just because there are certain carriers on a route means those carriers have locked in and have "taken their share" of passengers. WN can come in and easily leech of the other carriers to fill their planes even if the route has many carriers. WN has a very good brand and reputation among many loyal travelers

I think it makes a lot of sense... they tend to go to a lot of leisure routes and do well. Why not HI?

I agree. I don't think that ,by WN adding flights, they will stimulate a whole lot of additional demand - I think they will just take some customers that may have flown on other airlines, only diluting yields for others and for themselves. I think the pie will be pretty much the same size, just one more airline taking a piece of it. As far as them going to a lot of destinations that are primarily leisure oriented - they do. LAS and MCO are two very large stations for them. Both offer multiple nonstop and connecting opportunities to reach nearly every other city in their system. Absent red eye flights, the opportunities would be significantly limited for them from Hawaii, primarily to the west coast, much of which is already served from Hawaii. I think it would only further dilute yields that will, most probably, already be diluted for the reasons stated above. Just my two cents.

Southwest executives are smart people. They run the most profitable airline any of us have ever known. They are prudent in executing decisions about where they send their most valuable assets. Maybe they will fly to Hawaii but even if they ultimately do that, I don't believe it will be a significant operation at all.

[Edited 2012-09-21 16:57:02]

User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18086 times:

I think the redeye flying being attached to this agreement will enable them to do an efficient operation to and from HNL and whereever else they decide to fly. I doubt 100percent they will do interisland as they don't have the right sized aircraft as the 717's are leaving the fleet.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18033 times:

Quote:
unless WN starts flying red eye flights

They have said they intend to and with the FA vote passing today they now can.

Quote:
I don't see what value Southwest could offer over other carriers

Well they bring 2 free bags which is big b/c if you are going that far you go for a while, Wi-Fi and TV via Row44 which Gogo can't offer yet (at least I dont think so) and most importantly they bring a large frequent flier base.

You don't have to have something special to be in the market. What did AS really bring special? (Don't get me wrong, AS great airline, but to say WN brings nothing special, first off they do, none the less; AS didn't bring anything special but they succeeded in Hawaii.)

Quote:
I don't believe it will be a significant operation at all.

Assume each destinations is tied to 3 Hawaiian gateways (LAX, OAK, SAN) each with 2 flights that is 6 flights per city. That is without SWA even thinking about doing maybe one SNA or one this or that. Its not going to be a small city. Not Denver but not 2 or 3 flights.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17537 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17968 times:

WN is not very good at transcons (HI flights would be similar in stage), or competing with AS, which is already in HI in a big way. I'm not sure what WN brings to the market that is not already there in spades. This is going to be very challenging for WN and very interesting to watch.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17918 times:

Quote:
WN is not very good at transcons (HI flights would be similar in stage)

With Redeye's they will get a lot better.

Quote:
or competing with AS
WN can easily compete with AS should they want to but AS and WN are focused on different things thus WN doesn't care. People are mentioning the flights in Boise and all of those cities in the Northwest. SWA is evolving and the new SWA is not as focused on the Northwest so they are ending some flights and people are saying its because of AS and it is not.

[Edited 2012-09-21 17:36:34]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
25 Post contains images AirframeAS : UA also does it from DEN on a 763, the 11:55am departure. I agree. WN should have pounced on this a long time ago. The 738 has been offered for a lon
26 airliner371 : With redeyes they will improve drastically. With their frequent flier base alone they can handle Hawaii. And they bring a lot to the table. i.e. A bu
27 MaverickM11 : Currently they can't. Even if they choose to, since AS has lower costs, first class, a competent res system, and assigned seats. That will help. Plus
28 airliner371 : Yes, they can. They compete and have beaten AS in many routes. Lower costs but SWA can fly with higher yielding pax because they have a loyal custome
29 AirframeAS : Like what routes? Intra-Cali, I'll give you that, but what other routes does WN beat AS on?
30 airliner371 : I had a list but it is not on my new computer for some reason. It included multiple routes outside of cali. We can go on all day debating if SWA can
31 Post contains images SANFan : I would agree that this is the ballpark where WN would begin service to The Islands, although, airliner', I guess you're just figuring on 3 Hawaiian
32 airliner371 : No, my bad, poor wording on my part. 3 US mainland gateways to HNL, OGG, KOA and LIH.
33 YYZAMS : I wonder if they are copying AS or WestJet. WestJet has a 757 flying there so maybe WN will get one too. I would fly WestJet over WN as they have PTVs
34 airliner371 : Well they bring 2 free bags which is big b/c if you are going that far you go for a while, Wi-Fi and TV via Row44 which Gogo can't offer yet (at leas
35 luvfa : With the FA ratification vote we are likely to see SJU before HI service. Airtran currently flies to SJU from ATL, TPA, FLL and BWI. With Near Interna
36 mtnwest1979 : I certainly hope the Caribbean area comes online before HI. AK as well for that matter. Will be interesting to see where the flights will be from.
37 airliner371 : You missed MCO. We will probably see TPA, FLL, MCO, BWI and maybe 2 new cities go to WN but until that codeshare is in place FL will probably keep th
38 flyer737sw : A strong rumor has it that WN will start into Hawaii with a bang. Service will enter into the islands to HNL, OGG and KOA From the mainland cities inc
39 airliner371 : I have heard this rumor as well. SWA could be taking a while not only for the contract to pass but to get enough -800s to operate all of this.
40 AirframeAS : AS service is a hell of a lot better than what WN offers. WN offers the bare minimum, to me, outside of the free checked bag charade.
41 airliner371 : Thats your opinion. I gave you facts of what WN brings.
42 AirframeAS : AS offers wifi on most of their aircraft, you know that, right? I find AS wifi much better than what WN offers. WN's wifi is nothing to write home ab
43 airliner371 : Yes I do know that, but Gogo doesn't work over the Pacific ocean. It may be a gimmick but it works. Southwest continues to fill its planes so I don't
44 sancho99504 : DL also serves HNL from SFO departs 1850 on a 753 UA from DEN at 1155 with 763
45 strfyr51 : Ogg and LIH, the Largest Carrier?? Really?? when were you there last?? I know they could land at the Interisland Terminal at HNL and replace the Aloh
46 DocLightning : Or United... WN is no longer a low-fare carrier. A flight on WN is competitive with other carriers. People who choose to fly WN do so because they ar
47 SANFan : If this rumor turns out to be true, I will be extremely surprised. That's a LOT of stations to have to staff with ETOPS-trained people and special eq
48 DeltaMD90 : Those 717s are going to DL. They might deploy them there for the time being but I don't see a sustained inter-island feeder (why start it up only to
49 XT6Wagon : When they started looking at larger planes, Boeing was planning on having the 737RS EIS in the 2016-2018 range at the latest with the engines being t
50 rj777 : So if WN goes Island hopping, it looks like they will be the replacement (Albeit several years late) for Aloha.
51 MaverickM11 : Airlines don't cut profitable flying. WN cut the Northwest because it couldn't afford to continue flying as much capacity in the Northwest. AS can do
52 slcdeltarumd11 : ANOTHER a.net rumor that was bs this week about swa not even going thru with etops
53 PHX787 : PHX may have to be extremely weight-restrained. I also think that if WN gets the 739MAX, they'd have the capabilities to fly PHX-HNL. HOU- nope. Not
54 Maverick623 : Possibly PHX, although as said the airplanes they have will take severe weight restrictions. I've actually seen it more than once where someone will
55 ASFlyer : What do redeyes have to with Southwest being good or not at transcons (or flights of similar length) The biggest thing AS brought were direct flights
56 737tdi : I have held my tongue for several years. AS is a great airline. Remember, we (WN) started with 3 airplanes 40? years ago. I think AS is in for a rude
57 ASFlyer : I think WN deserves all the respect it's given. They have turned the U.S. airline business upside down with their no nonsense style of doing business
58 san88 : Since when did this thread become WN versus AS ...... SMH :/
59 barney captain : With what aircraft? Maybe the MAX, but certainly not the -800. The -800 won't reliably make PHX/LAS to HI. Even out of some west coast cities it is v
60 Maverick623 : Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of it.
61 STT757 : A couple United corrections: Lihue- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Kona- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Maui- LAX, SFO, DEN (SA) Hilo- LAX Honolulu- LAX, SFO, DEN
62 AirframeAS : I don't care about that. The point I was making, again - in which you ignored, is that the wifi that AS offers is far more superior than what WN is o
63 RWA380 : Three letters ATA...... IIRC, SFO-HNL was dropped by AA some years ago, I flew it in 2004 IIRC, on a 763, but was dropped shortly after that Maybe as
64 bobnwa : How do you account that quite regularly, Southwest is last among US carriersin the monthly load factor report in ATW (Air transport World).
65 airliner371 : AS offers superior Wi-Fi. Did rather. Row44 last week (I think last week) actually doubled the speed of N. American Wi-Fi. If you have not been on a
66 ASFlyer : Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 55): I have serious doubt about WN's Hawaii intentions. Yep, they're just getting their planes ETOPS certified for the heck of
67 ak : What a Jackass comment from from Mr. High and Mighty! Hows that for immaturity! Geez, some people on this site think they are just way above everyone
68 DocLightning : They don't have the aircraft for it. HNL-OGG is a 23 minute flight. You simply cannot do that with the CFM's on the 73G without tearing the engines u
69 questions : Given all the comments in various forums about the "full service" legacy airlines and the old/dirty/worn/you-name-it aircraft they choose for flights
70 questions : Do any A320 variants have range and ETOPs to fly west coast US to HI? I'm thinking specifically about B6 and VX.
71 Bluewave 707 : I, for one, would be curious to see how much WN will invest in infrastructure in Hawai‘i with people, ground ops (above & below the wings), equi
72 MaverickM11 : The same could be said for all the transcons WN has generally shied away from, so again I'm not sure what WN is bringing to the party beyond their lo
73 slcdeltarumd11 : i agree it shouldnt be especially since i dont think southwest is targeting them. Its the legacies that Southwest will be the biggest pain for plus H
74 airliner371 : Why does an airline need to bring something to the party? I have listed multiple things WN brings anyway. What did AS bring that other airlines didn'
75 MaverickM11 : Some of the lowest costs in the market
76 n901wa : I wish Southwest Good luck with Hawaii ops. I personaly think it will not affect Alaska that much. Alaska and the other Carriers flying to Hawaii have
77 AirframeAS : Well, this is how I feel: That thing WN people have is going to come and bite them in the butt one day when an airline attacks them and they think th
78 bjorn14 : Just curious as to why any FA would vote against Hawai'i? Was international in the scope of this vote too? Did the pilots vote too?
79 aztrainer : I could see them doing ONT as they have a major presence and it is an area of the LA area that it not serviced to HA. LAS/PHX will see flights, but i
80 SANFan : I'm sure this question has been answered already (hopefully not on this thread since I've then missed it) but could someone please clarify whether WN'
81 usflyguy : The owned -800's are ETOPS the leased ones are not. There are over 20 ETOPS planes in the fleet now and ETOPS is painted on the wheel well.
82 Post contains images SANFan : What took you so long! Wow, thank you for the speedy reply and the information. That is a good sized fleet already! bb
83 ASFlyer : Apparently, you didn't read what I wrote earlier, or did and just chose to ignore it because it made sense. Alaska brought nonstop flights in markets
84 XT6Wagon : Well, its a question of work vs pay, rest time, etc. They had to hammer out this new stuff to the satisfaction of both sides. I think the mediation w
85 zippyjet : I'll add my 2 cents worth. BWI-DAL-BUR-HNL, BWI-DAL-LAS-HNL, BWI-DEN-SFO=HNL, LGA-DEN-LAX-HNL, MDW-LAS-HNL, BWI-OAK-HNL, BWI-CLE-MDW-LAX-HNL. BWI-BNA
86 Post contains images ouboy79 : Well 3 of your examples aren't happening until the Wright Amendment is gone.
87 Maverick623 : Well, I don't see them flying to Europe anytime soon. I don't believe any of the AirTran markets are within ETOPS range... soo.... It will be in 2014
88 airliner371 : I have to disagree. WN has acknowledged that there are problems and they are working to fix them. AS on the other had has been the cocky ones (not yo
89 RWA380 : I think that is correct too, however there are many that find relish in killing others ideas, and subsequently enjoyment of the conversation, I belie
90 ha763 : The only station I can see having WN staff is HNL if they have at least 6 daily flights. Aloha Air Cargo's Tech Ops can easily get the maintenance co
91 AirframeAS : Disagree all you want. They have been cocky as if late. Remember DEN? Oh, yeah, that little place with the little airline they tried to kill......
92 airliner371 : Its people from other airlines that want to say they tried to kill F9. They went to Denver, they did well and they expanded. Frontier was not a targe
93 ouboy79 : Regardless of who signs my pay check, WN went into DEN at the sole reason to become the dominant player. The first attempt was to purchase Frontier,
94 CALMSP : have to ask permission.....................this is whats wrong with unions.
95 DeltaMD90 : From what I understand, it was mostly a "it isn't in our contract, let's negotiate" and they did without much trouble. I doubt WN was begging the FAs
96 kgaiflyer : I'm puzzled by the comment -- having flown both WN's LAX-BWI and SAN-BWI. And formerly, their SJC-BWI flight. Exactly how are they "not very good?"
97 DocLightning : I'm a physician, an independent contractor, and most certainly not in a union (physicians can't unionize in many states). Whenever my "employer" want
98 XT6Wagon : your timeline is wrong, WN was back at DEN when the F9 asset sale happened. WN put in a bid not to buy DEN, but more for the entire route network.
99 hiflyeras : Since when did WN attract a higher-yield clientele than their competitors? With no FC and cattle-call seating they were desperate to increase their y
100 DocLightning : They are fine for transcons and they will be fine for Hawaii. 1) Advance seating often makes it more difficult, not less, for families with children.
101 gizmonc : I think you have that wrong it was not the WN unions not being on board. When WN approached F9 pilots they (F9) wanted an immediate response ( like w
102 MaverickM11 : WN has cut a lot of transcon flying over the years--very little remains outside of LAX/SANBWI. Even old standbys to LAS/PHX are slowly disappearing.
103 hiflyeras : A bit of a non-issue to Hawaii...probably 90% of the travelers are leisure. Half the people on the plane these days have their own tablet or laptop s
104 asteriskceo : You'll see transcons coming back in a big way for WN once the res system is capable of handling red-eye scheduling.
105 DocLightning : If that's the case, then why is everyone rushing to install it? And so? You think that leisure flyers don't want to browse the web? I sure do. Many s
106 MaverickM11 : That's an excellent question, since the take on wifi is around 3%. I think everyone is hopeful it will grow, which it definitely will. Why? Redeye fa
107 kgaiflyer : You can't prove that by me. My last WN flight (WN1274 LAX-ELP) a number of us used *either* Internet ($5) or WiFi-TV ($6) . At those prices, it's a b
108 DocLightning : The outlay is minimal. Aircraft out-of-service for a day. Less than $1M/frame. Negligible maintenance, negligible weight and drag. It's a low-risk pr
109 MaverickM11 : No but numerous executives from AS to EK as well as several of the providers have made it clear that a 5% take is a high point. Yep, it all sounds li
110 hiflyeras : Yes, they just might. But as I said along with the previous statement was that people that need to be entertained other than a book are now bringing
111 AirframeAS : I never said that. Please show me where I said that on this thread.
112 kgaiflyer : Hmmm. Here's the original quote: Here's the whole context of my post It shows your post (25) was quoting another post (23) -- so I never said that yo
113 airliner371 : They can do it higher then AS and equal to the legacies. It depends on the airline. WN has it slightly higher because they offer it for cheaper. Also
114 AirframeAS : Then direct that question to Maverick, not to me, as I never said that, hence why I'm not answering your question. Now, if you want to know why I thi
115 kgaiflyer : That's the way a.net's quotation system works, and that's exactly what I did. Better take it up with the Moderaters Sorry it upset you.[Edited 2012-0
116 Maverick623 : Which airline has shut down their WiFi access? AFAIK, everyone that has it is doing nothing but expanding it.
117 ASFlyer : How do you know what the usage rate at WN is? I think you are just making biased assumptions.
118 MaverickM11 : Not sure about airlines but Boeing's Connexion program was shut down in 2006
119 AirframeAS : Any reason why?
120 airliner371 : I think it was too heavy and not worth it for airlines. Because I know people inside WN just like you probably do in AS. I think your just trying to
121 AirframeAS : Your posts on other WN threads says otherwise, airliner371. Just sayin
122 airliner371 : I have in fact have said I only fly WN but that doesn't mean I am biased. If I have a biased view then I have no way to succeed in aviation so I have
123 Post contains images wnflyguy : Not to be a Debbie downer but I don't see HAWAII and Etops flying until 2015 or 2016. I think next year you will see WN focus on 1. 717 off load to De
124 ASFlyer : I'm not trying to make trouble. You've said over and over again that you think Alaska Airlines is too cocky. That's usually followed by some reason t
125 MaverickM11 : Lack of demand apparently.
126 airliner371 : Yes it will and that will be exciting! Can they not do all 3 simultaneously? You should keep this in mind for next time as well. This has been nothin
127 DeltaMD90 : I think some posters where saying something that the supposed huge Hawaiian service would take a ton of aircraft. I figure they wouldn't be able to d
128 airliner371 : Hahaha. Some times it is smart, others not so much lol.
129 DocLightning : Who lately? Back at the turn of the century, not everyone was carrying a WiFi enabled device. Tablets were still sci-fi. That's very different now.
130 QANTAS747-438 : I'd estimate that Hawaii would require 20-25 ETOPS -800s in order to have a small/decent network. WN has that now. Whatever 2013 -800 deliveries they
131 AirframeAS : Woah! WN now has 20-25 738's on the property to date?! Wow! That's fast!
132 MaverickM11 : Yep, so you'd think the take rates would be much higher now. But they're not.
133 Post contains images ouboy79 : More so just me not posting clearly. Yes WN was back in DEN already, but they wanted to expand significantly. Their first option was to buy F9 but mo
134 Post contains links MaverickM11 : http://www.businesstravelnews.com/Bu...assengers-Pay/?ida=Airlines&a=mgmt ""The usage rates are low," US Airways president Scott Kirby told journa
135 QANTAS747-438 : Yup. Just checked and WN has 24 as of today, 25 by the end of the month. I think they will have 33 by the end of the year. Of course, 5 of those 33 a
136 Post contains links gizmonc : I had remembered something that WN's pilots wanted a staple and not DOH for the F9 guys, but maybe it was just their reluctance that made the F9 guys
137 airliner371 : Keeping with Love Field, does anyone know.... Is SWA aloud to sell flights to where ever they plan on doing it before the October date and just initi
138 Post contains images EA CO AS : While the first part of your statement is potentially true, the second part throws any credibility you had out the window. The "Southwest Effect" onl
139 usflyguy : Being the largest carrier at OAK, SJC and SMF would surely help them with those cities.
140 kgaiflyer : I agree on BUR. The Calabasas, Northridge, Van Nuys, Toluca Lake, Sherman Oaks, Burbank, Glendale area could support a 738 just as SNA does.
141 N737AA : Would make sense to do some stub flights to the other islands, but I wouldn't expect to see a full blown interisland operation....well not yet. Both
142 Post contains images 737tdi : AirframeAS: I did not say cheap, I said "cheaper". There is a big difference there. hiflyeras: You must live in a very small state. A drive across Te
143 AirframeAS : Oh, I know. My comment still stands.
144 737tdi : Well, we shall see, I think. I don't think AS or WN will be the fat lady. It will be the other guys... Although everyone thinks that WN's costs are u
145 ASFlyer : How much better can Alaska do? I guess there's always room for improvement but their load factors are some of the highest in the industry and they ha
146 usflyguy : And we all know load factors are everything, right? F9 and AA have some of the highest load factors out there but they definitely aren't rolling in t
147 Post contains links ouboy79 : http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ic-capacity-and-load-factors.html/ Perhaps some education is in order. Alaska - 2,187,000,000 RPMs Southwest -
148 EA CO AS : You mean you agree that BUR-HNL won't be done, you mean? That was my point; a BUR-HNL flight would be so severely weight-restricted that it would be
149 hiflyeras : Agreed....jumpseating on a 737 is torture. I can't imagine a 5-6 flight crammed in there...and god forbid there's someone in the second j/s behind th
150 AirframeAS : Your opinion, but they are two TOTALLY different airlines. Finally, someone got it right. LOL! ASFlyer is right. I disagree. The fees are there for a
151 XT6Wagon : They also made a fortune as passengers migrated to them from thier old airlines that suddenly charged them $50-100 more for the same flights since th
152 Post contains links and images ASFlyer : Actually, no, education is not in order - unless you'd like some schooling, that is. In this case load factors are everything. My point is that not c
153 AirframeAS : They made ZERO off of bag fees.
154 skycub : If I understand you question correctly, and I apologize if I do not.... Southwest can currently sell seats to anywhere they serve out of Love Field.
155 ouboy79 : Why does WN need to charge for bags when they can force everyone to raise fares after they do? Seems silly. I'm not going to say people are going to
156 kgaiflyer : BUR isn't that much more inland than LAX. I understand that the current CO 738s out of SNA -- and the Aloha 737-7s before them -- had fewer seats. Bu
157 ASFlyer : CO was using a 737-700 out of SNA, not an -800. There's no way an -800 could get out of SNA without taking huge penalties, negating any advantage mor
158 AirframeAS : Partially quoting you here, but they're missing out on a HUGE ass revenue stream here.....
159 ouboy79 : I don't disagree we would see a huge influx in revenue. I don't think they will cave and charge for every bag though. If anything charge for the 2nd
160 ASFlyer : Honestly, I don't. I meant what I've said over and over - Southwest is a well managed company with smart people at the top and good people working fo
161 usflyguy : Hope it holds up after WN enters HI and the yields get trashed.
162 Post contains images Maverick623 : You do know that other airlines charge the fare difference PLUS the change fee, right? False. Load factors are a function of Revenue Passenger Miles
163 DocLightning : Why do you think WN will lower the yields? The market decides the ticket price, not the airline. Ask any airline executive that. I personally dislike
164 ouboy79 : Would you rather have Spirit enter into HI and eliminate all positive yield completely? LOL Yeah I see your point. It just seemed the tone was gettin
165 ASFlyer : Point taken. I have nothing but respect for Southwest. They have always been an "honest airline" in my eyes. They only promise on what they can deliv
166 EA CO AS : And yet LUV's stock performance - the key metric that matters most to investors and what they actually base investment decisions on - has been positi
167 Post contains images airportugal310 : Yeah......AA seems like the ideal airline at the moment...... Sometime's "loyalty" baffles the ever loving s*%$t out of me
168 RWA380 : Boy I sure hope NK does not enter the Hawaii market, when their NEO's are on property. If their seating doesn't change for the passengers benefit, I
169 N737AA : I guess you didn't read my user name.....lol N737AA[Edited 2012-09-25 05:54:50]
170 Post contains images kgaiflyer : You're right. I looked it up. The unusual runway at SNA [ 5701 ft with a displaced threshold and extreme NIMBY-inspired takeoff procedures ] makes a
171 DeltaMD90 : If you have lower costs then you can either make more money or lower yields (and still be successful.) Though WN is losing its cost advantage if this
172 JONC777 : sorry but your leisure pax to hawaii probably wont know this or care about it as the only thing they will look at is the price point.
173 AirframeAS : Not always, my friend... not always.....
174 JONC777 : I agree. . .but sadly too many dont care. . .living in ATL youd be suprised about how many people daily dont even know FL is going away. . . aside fr
175 nomorerjs : HNL-MDW with a stop?
176 JONC777 : hard to tell about this one has there are so many WN haters out there and the last qtr was still VERY good. . .im kinda anxious to see how the 3rd qt
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