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Island Air New ATR 72 Ferry Tracking Today To HNL  
User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15931 times:

Here it is: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N348AE

Wow, now that's a long flight for an ATR

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7226 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15889 times:

Did they put extra tanks inside it? And I recall seeing the 717s being ferried with extra tanks-- how did they get those inside the cabin?


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15759 times:

Yes, they put extra tanks in and use a very specialized highly trained group of ferry pilots. That said, 8 hours in an ATR 72... wow, i hope they bring some nice catering with them! Maybe they bring a Cathay Pacific flight attendant to serve some fine dining and make the time pass.

User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15759 times:

Wow, I'm surprised they didn't use the bay area as their launching point for the over water journey. A long flight indeed!

User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15686 times:

I didn't know they were getting ex-AT (Executive) ATRs. That is an impressive flight, especially for a -200.

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15677 times:

What very specialized highly trained pilots are necessary for a long overwater ferry?


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15671 times:

They basically take all the seats, move them to the back and put fuel tanks in. The pilots need to have a lot of training to take an airplane that is designed to do an hour flight and do 9 hours. But primarily it's about the additional fuel management.

Does anyone know how this works?


User currently onlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 566 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15606 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 3):
Wow, I'm surprised they didn't use the bay area as their launching point for the over water journey. A long flight indeed!

I was wondering the same thing.

Quoting Canflight (Reply 2):
Yes, they put extra tanks in and use a very specialized highly trained group of ferry pilots. That said, 8 hours in an ATR 72... wow, i hope they bring some nice catering with them! Maybe they bring a Cathay Pacific flight attendant to serve some fine dining and make the time pass.

How many pilots would be on a flight like this? I can imagine that it would get really boring about an hour into the overwater portion. I would bring the Ipad also to kill the time not being PIC.


User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15505 times:

I'm not sure, but I think just two pilots.

As far as where they left from perhaps someone needs to look at it on a 'globe' to see if it's actually closer to leave from MMV than it would be from SFO or LAX? I bet it has more to do with airport fees, perhaps MMV is very cheap!


User currently offlinecatdaddy63 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15465 times:
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Great circle mapper shows MMV-HNL as 2231nm, LAX-HNL as 2221nm, OAK-HNL as 2093nm. MMV probably was significantly less expensive.

Edit: Corrected to nautical miles.

[Edited 2012-09-22 16:20:43]

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15391 times:

Quoting Canflight (Reply 8):
I'm not sure, but I think just two pilots.


For a flight over 8 hours, wouldn't convention require a relief pilot or is that not necessarily still enforced since it is not under airline operations and is under a different Part.

Quoting catdaddy63 (Reply 9):
Great circle mapper shows MMV-HNL as 2231nm, LAX-HNL as 2221nm, OAK-HNL as 2093nm. MMV probably was significantly less expensive.

With the aux tanks, MMV-HNL was probably within the calculated range. Going via OAK would have been a waste of fuel since it would be a detour that wouldn't save much fuel.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15148 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
For a flight over 8 hours, wouldn't convention require a relief pilot or is that not necessarily still enforced since it is not under airline operations and is under a different Part.

A plane will make such a flight under a special rule because of the ferry tanks. They would not take more than two pilots for weight. Rather have that extra 200 pounds of fuel than another relief pilot.

Several times each year smaller/ slower aircraft are ferried to/ from Hawaii with just one pilot. Again - saving weight for more fuel is most important.

The flight will be delayed as necessary for the right weather for the trip, The company and pilots check the aircraft very closely. The pilots are scheduled and supported for maximum rest before the flight begins.

There are several small companies that do this type work, and have an excellent safety record.


User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15141 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Several times each year smaller/ slower aircraft are ferried to/ from Hawaii with just one pilot. Again - saving weight for more fuel is most important.

Yep, I ferried a Twin Otter from OTH (North Bend, Oregon) to HNL last winter with another pilot. We had to wait a few days for the winds to die down. Even at 12,000 feet they we too strong for us. Granted the flight was 15 hours so we didn't have much fuel to spare for winds.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15112 times:

BTW - the shortest open water distance transfer to Hawaii is via Adak Alaska and Midway Island. The total distance if over twice as long, and weather in the Aleutians is frequently even more tricky - but if the plane can only go 1600-1800 nm - that's the route to take.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=kmmv-ph...dy-phnl&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=265&SU=kts

If you want to talk about an uncomfortable flight - in 1967 my cousin made the trip from El Toro to Chu Lai in the back seat of an F-4 Phantom. His story about trying to find Wake Island when the pathfinder tanker had to RTB early is scary.


User currently offlineCelticmanx From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14271 times:

No need special training and the ATR 72 empty can fly that distance in that amount of time.
I crossed the Atlantic in a 42 and took 7 hours 38 minutes and we still had fuel to continue fly a little further, not much but we did. We did not have to take any special training and did not carry auxiliary tanks. The only thing out of the routinary was to install a provisional HF antenna to be able to communicate with ATC during the flight


User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

Here she is safe and sound in HNL... wow what an amazing journey. It's cool to see this plane with the HNL mountain in the background. Who was she with before?

https://www.facebook.com/islandairhawaii


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14217 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 4):
That is an impressive flight, especially for a -200.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


I dunno if it makes much of a difference, since the -212's share the same powerplant as the -500s. I'm guessing their performance is similar (with the -500 allowing for more payload), and probably superior to the -202's that came before them.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14146 times:

Quoting Canflight (Reply 15):
Here she is safe and sound in HNL... wow what an amazing journey. It's cool to see this plane with the HNL mountain in the background. Who was she with before?

Gorgeous photo, and a beautiful livery! Her former 'employer' was Executive Airlines (dba American Eagle).



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14146 times:

This is the first of seven that they'll be getting two 72s and five 42s. I think things are going to be dramatically different in the inter island world over the next year.

So am I to understand the the regular Island Air pilots could do this ferry flight. I hear that the pilots are specially trained to be part of these 'ferry' companies. I wonder what it costs to do the trip?


User currently offlinempdpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13512 times:

I knew guys that did this for Mesa Air with the CRJ-200 and it was impressive. I wish I still had the photos. They took all the seats out and shipped them separately and filled the cabin with large tanks.

The pilot said that it is surprisingly easy flight and it is done more often than you might think. I would imagine the ATR or 717 or any other plane is no different.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13497 times:

A new fleet with Island Air is not going to dramatically change the inter island business. The elephant in the room however, is how Hawaiian's new t-prop operation will affect Island Air, Mokulele and Pacific Wings.

User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13380 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
For a flight over 8 hours, wouldn't convention require a relief pilot or is that not necessarily still enforced since it is not under airline operations and is under a different Part.

Its mostly indiviual airline contracts that decide when relief pilots are required. Crews in Canada for example can operate up to 14 hrs duty.


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4191 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13353 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 21):
Its mostly indiviual airline contracts that decide when relief pilots are required. Crews in Canada for example can operate up to 14 hrs duty.

Not correct. It is a case of the nation's regulations. The Fed regulations in the states for part 121 operations specify that any flight over 8 hours requires 3 pilots. The ATR delivery today was operated under part 91, thus it was more flexible and did not require an augment.

[Edited 2012-09-22 22:53:04]


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11293 times:

Quoting Celticmanx (Reply 14):


Many ferry companies out there..... but you are right, other than Fuel Management and HF just a longer flight.
check... www.americankingair.com


User currently offlineCanflight From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10347 times:

The aircraft arrived safe and sound. I'd love to see a before and after picture of this aircraft. They just put up all these pictures on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/islandairhawaii


25 Post contains images Canflight : Here is the 'after'. Does anyone have the 'before'
26 wedgetail737 : Does this mean the beginning of the end of the Dash 8 service as we know it for Island Air? Nice, refreshing paint job!
27 Post contains images Canflight : Yes, they are removing the Dash 8s over the next 6 to 8 months and going to a full ATR fleet. I am not as familiar with these aircraft so it would be
28 Post contains links daviation : Just out of curiosity, I flew in July on Island Air's Dash-8 out of JHM. It was a pretty fancy takeoff! Engines fully revved, brakes set until engines
29 T prop : The ATR cannot perform like the Dash 8 when it comes to short runways, they will have to take a weight penalty, so they won't be leaving JHM with a f
30 usxguy : What do you mean? Island Air barely has a 55% load factor using 37 seat Dash 8s, so basicly doubling capacity may not do too much. Mokulele reported
31 usxguy : Actually I guess I should reword my last post. I just noticed these are the old A models. American Eagle took weight restrictions almost anytime these
32 Canflight : I wonder how they will work this out. The next aircraft is a ATR 42 so I think it can handle the shorter runway in West Maui JHM Does anyone know if t
33 T prop : Yes. Mahalo Air used to do it.
34 T prop : Which one is the A model? The one in the picture is a -212 with PW127 engines. There are earlier models (202) that have PW124's, you sure it's not th
35 Canflight : What happened to Mahalo Air? Why did they go under?
36 Post contains links and images usxguy : Yes... American Eagle/Miami had 2 types; one with 4 blades and one with 6 blades. The 6 blades are the more 'advanced' ATR-72s that didn't have any of
37 LimaFoxTango : Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this what ATR markets as the -200 and -500? I didn't know the -212's took that much of a weight penalty. That would c
38 Post contains links Viscount724 : Like most airlines that go bust, they ran out of cash. HNL newspaper article re their shutdown. http://archives.starbulletin.com/97/09/03/business/st
39 azjubilee : USXguy - my point is that once the Hawaiian t-prop operation starts, there will be a draw towards HAL for many passengers taking them away from Island
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