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Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA  
User currently offlineSkyTeamTriStar From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 390 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13448 times:

Having a pet die while traveling aboard airlines these days is just one of life's horrible situation to have to go through. But, UA is having troubles mount up and bad things for UA just keep coming.

DISCLAIMER: This could happen to any airline. PERIOD.

Comment....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...-_n_1903661.html?utm_hp_ref=travel

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13367 times:

You're right; it's a tragic outcome, but unfortunately it does happen. One has to take the huffington post with a grain of salt, however. They posted that there's been an increase in pet deaths onboard aircraft in recent years, but did not back that up with the fact that more pets are traveling by air these days.

Also, they posted that UA did, indeed, refund them their pet fee as well as pay for the necropsy. In that respect, it would appear that UA acted appropriately (minus the incident with the customer service agent - and I wonder if that was more sensationalism from an upset customer or if it really happened).



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12971 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 1):
They posted that there's been an increase in pet deaths onboard aircraft in recent years, but did not back that up with the fact that more pets are traveling by air these days.

It may not be so much that there's an actual increase, but that they're actually being reported to the DOT, now.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12933 times:

That's why I'll never have my pet travel in the belly of an aircraft! RIP  


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12652 times:

Anyone putting their dog on a jet has to realize they're rolling the dice with their dog's life. I'd never put my dog on an airplane. Back on the ramp, I went out of my way to take very good care of people's pets, but I was just one person. Most ramp agents either don't care or they don't think. I can't tell you how many times I saw pet carriers out in the sun, behind tugs, or next to exhaust pipes. Once an agent even opened a cage to pet a dog and we spent 20 minutes chasing it around the ramp.

Unfortunately, this isn't news.



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User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12618 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):
Once an agent even opened a cage to pet a dog and we spent 20 minutes chasing it around the ramp.

That's why we finally started using nylon tie wraps to keep the door from being opened, enroute........too many nosy cargo and ramp agents. There used to be a pack of dogs running around ORD, from getting loose from their kennels over the years.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12554 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 6):
There used to be a pack of dogs running around ORD, from getting loose from their kennels over the years.

I believe it. I always felt bad for the people who'd try to give me big tips to watch after their dog, it's like dude, I'm going to look after your dog for free, and there's no way I can guarantee anything for the next 15 people who come into contact with it. Keep your money!

Fortunately I never saw any animals harmed, but like I said there were many, many sketchy situations that would absolutely dissuade me from putting my pet on a plane. Just drive, even if it's 2500 miles.



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User currently offlineidlewildchild From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11609 times:

Easy to say 'death happens' when it's not your dog. Obviously a 2 year old arriving dead after being completely fine from a cross country flight means something was terribly wrong with wherever the dog was placed for the flight. No doubt she'll sue, and rightly so, and United will quietly settle out of court to end the case, forcing her to sign a waiver of responsibility for United. It's not rocket science. Healthy dog arrives at airport for flight, healthy dog is turned over to United for transportation, dog arrives dead. United is liable, period. Let's stop protecting the obvoius here folks. I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11305 times:

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.

Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11259 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):

Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)

DL does indeed take pets. From May 15th until Sept 15th, most every year, there's a suspension on pets checked as baggage and they have to be shipped as cargo (depending on the temps).



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):
Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)

DAL does between certain dates in the warm months. I believe JetBlue does not take pets any time except in the cabin.



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User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11144 times:

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
Easy to say 'death happens' when it's not your dog.

It's not easy, it sucks.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.

I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

To those who actually do the research, knowingly spin the wheel, and end up losing a pet, obviously you have my sincere sympathy because that absolutely sucks, but nobody should be surprised.



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User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10717 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

If they do, there's no case here.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

I am interested in the real risks. Are there actual stress, pressure variation, or other risks for dogs?

Or is this all about cargo handlers placing the dogs in locations where they'll suffocate, breathe dangerous fumes, or get exposed to extreme temperatures?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10514 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):

DAL does between certain dates in the warm months.

DL accepts pets ALL year, subject to temperature limitations. As stated, between May 15th and Sept 15th they are only accepted as cargo and NOT checked baggage.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

Why stop there.......why not go for 100%? I can assure you that the airlines don't have an acceptable number of pets that can die while transported before they worry about it. I used to and the agents that have followed me since do the best we can with pets, EVERYDAY. Were not out there just to "kill" them as someone said. WE had a zero tolerance policy. It would be my best guess that most animals that die during transport, had some sort of health problem that was not revealed and the stress (yes, there IS stress) of transportation did them in, not some agent "killing" them.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):
Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

I know we had paperwork, but I forget what it was apart from the little tag we were supposed to give to the pax that said "I'm on board!" It's been a few years, but yeah you're probably right.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 14):
Or is this all about cargo handlers placing the dogs in locations where they'll suffocate, breathe dangerous fumes, or get exposed to extreme temperatures?

It's both. Obviously, even if a dog is completely cared for and put exactly where he's supposed to be, it's still a new and stressful experience. Even a healthy dog could panic, have a heart attack, whatever. A pet could also injure himself trying to escape or actually escaping from his cage. Also, the risks you mentioned about agents themselves are a worry.

Personally, I took the best care of pets that I could, being a dog owner myself. I'd visit with them in the bag room, make sure they had water, put them under the wing in the shade, etc. It should be known that many CSRs and ramp agents are caring, thoughtful people. There are enough that aren't, however, that I wouldn't put my dog on a plane, in addition to the other reasons listed above which have nothing to do with individual people.



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User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

We had our two cats shipped from Chicago to Southern California in 1990, after deciding that a 40 hour drive would be too much for them.

We moved in mid August and UA would not take pets if it was 90 (I think) or more. So for a couple weeks they could not leave from ORD. After the temps got lower at ORD, they could not arrive at ONT all the way into October. Then my mom got creative and decided temperatures would be lower at LAX, where they would arrive at about midnight. The cats then made the 70 mile car trip to their new home but got there safely.

UA had a long list of do's and dont's. So I think they put a lot of effort into safe transport. Of course airline employees workload has been increased in the meantime so these days it may be hard for the airline workers to track the pets properly.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineSkyTeamTriStar From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
DL does indeed take pets. From May 15th until Sept 15th, most every year, there's a suspension on pets checked as baggage and they have to be shipped as cargo (depending on the temps).
Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
DAL does between certain dates in the warm months. I believe JetBlue does not take pets any time except in the cabin.

I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9239 times:

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 18):
I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....

I understood that when DL put new crew rest areas on the 767s, it affected the ventilation in the bulk bin, raising the temps to unacceptable levels for animals in the bin. Therefore, they can no longer board live animals on 767s in the bulk bin.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):

Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

Not as far as I can remember and I worked with pets with an airline for 33 years. Now, if a customer wanted to declare a higher value than would be normal (depending on weight......$.50 per pound or $50.00 minimum, whichever is greater) they can, but if THERE is a claim that the airline accepts, whichever value is on the airbill when shipped is the value that the claim (if honored) will be paid at.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8236 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 18):
I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....

Is the rear bin/bulk bin heated and pressurized? I know on all the narrow body jets only the front bin is suitable for animals.



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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

Didn't we JUST have this debate a month ago in CivAv?

UA: Responsible For Dogs Death? (by usflyguy Aug 18 2012 in Civil Aviation)



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
I know on all the narrow body jets only the front bin is suitable for animals.

On the 757 and 737, it's the rear bin that's heated and pressurized.......on the DC-9, etc., it's in the front......the CRJ200/700 & 900 is in the rear. Can't speak for Airbus products.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6279 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):

Is the rear bin/bulk bin heated and pressurized?

On the 767 and 777, I believe it is. 747, too......I'm guessing that on the A330s, it's the same.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

I would disagree that the airline did all that it could, although I would concur that they do no more or less than other airlines

I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
On the 757 and 737, it's the rear bin that's heated and pressurized

Pets travel in both, forward and aft pit on both aircraft types. Pets cannot fly on the magic carpet nor the telescoping system on both sUA and sCO.

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
Can't speak for Airbus products.

Same as above.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 24):
I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.

PetSafe has that all covered. No worries. In order to work PetSafe, one would need to be specially trained to do this task.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 mayor : On DL, even if they CAN be loaded in front on the 737 and 757, they're only loaded in the rear. On DL they shouldn't BE sitting on the ramp for that
26 AirframeAS : I'm talking about UA, in which is what this thread is about. Not DL.
27 mayor : The general thread, yes...........but this is what was asked and answered ABOUT DL: I could answer the question, including UA and CO, but since I'm n
28 copter808 : I'm sure the success rate is far above 99%, although maybe not as high as 99.99%. As others have said, most airline employees take good care of the a
29 loalq : I had to move my frenchie from Switzerland to Singapore once and LH was one of the few (if not the only) that would fly him on the belly of the airpla
30 AR385 : Way back when...In 1989 I was on an AA 767-200ER flying DFW-MAD and we left the gate and started taxiing towards the runway. Ten minutes into the taxi
31 AF1624 : What shocks me most is not the death of the animal per say. Travelling in a plane's baggage hold, basically, along with other animals barking and whin
32 art : From the OP's link: "We understand that the loss of a beloved pet is difficult and express our condolences to Ms. Rizer and her family for their loss,
33 Post contains images PanHAM : United breaks guitars, they kill dogs, what's next? At least united is lucky that she is a model and not a country singer./ song writer... OK, [Edited
34 afterburner : Is the dog's owner really famous? I've never heard of her.
35 Aesma : Some companies don't even care about the cabin temperature !
36 SkyTeamTriStar : I've not heard of her, either. But, I do know one thing. If the TODAY Show has a segment about this whole episode, then she is famous enough. All kid
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