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Aggressive Approach Go Round In AEP Embraer 190  
User currently offlineogshelly From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 26 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14732 times:

Flew from Mendoza Argentina to Aeroparque in Buenos Aires in Aerolineas Argentinas on an Embraer 190 still smelling like new car, on September 20, 2012 the early flight that takes off at 6 AM number 2401. I noticed that once we flew by the airport in Buenos Aires, the u-turn didn't take much but less than one minute, EAP was still visible, but the approach was as if we were going to land in a carrier, I took some pictures, and once I zoomed, noticed that the runway was busy, and that explained the go around. Why is it that sometimes the approach is so aggressive? traffic? My Dad is a retired military pilot from the Mexican Air Force, so my respects to all aviators. Flew last night back home on UA 52 EZE-IAH.

Here the images before and after:
http://www.airliners.net/uf/11908/phpubbMK9.jpeg
http://www.airliners.net/uf/11908/phpO0qC4S.jpeg
http://www.airliners.net/uf/11908/phpXlIAE6.jpeg
http://www.airliners.net/uf/11908/phpdj6MGb.jpeg

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDrEsteban From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

Look like they were possibly hot and high (4 whites). So the reason for there go around might have been an unstable approach. This would also explain your sense of an 'aggressive' approach, eg. high speed, steep descend angle, banking close to the ground, etc.

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2855 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12377 times:
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Quoting DrEsteban (Reply 1):

What does (4 Whites) mean? Thanks



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineHarmonium From Denmark, joined Feb 2012, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 2):
What does (4 Whites) mean? Thanks
It's a reference to the PAPI lights..

4 white lights = much too high.
3 white/1 red = still too high.
2 white/2 red = spot on!
1 white/3 red = too low now!
4 red lights = way too low.


User currently offlinemats01776 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12292 times:
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The VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator) is showing that the plane was flying higher than a optimal approach angle.

Refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator

/M

[Edited 2012-09-24 02:59:51]

User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10940 times:

Quoting DrEsteban (Reply 1):

Look like they were possibly hot and high (4 whites).

That could have been after the decision/order to go around, however. There's traffic on the runway in the first two shots, so it's possible that the approach had already been discontinued by the time the shot was taken where you can see the PAPI, so the crew could already have stopped descending/started climbing, accounting for the 4 whites. However it also looks high in the first pic so it's equally possible that this was just a bodged approach. If so, kudos to the crew for doing the right thing.

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 4):

The VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator) is showing that the plane was flying higher than a optimal approach angle.

You'd generally call the equipment in the picture a PAPI, not a VASI. "VASI" generally means This.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlinevgnatl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9855 times:

Quoting Harmonium (Reply 3):
4 white lights = much too high.
3 white/1 red = still too high.
2 white/2 red = spot on!
1 white/3 red = too low now!
4 red lights = way too low.

Heard an old recording from an air traffic controller turned stand up comic once, who added a 5th category:

4 green lights = grass is shining through the lights and you are WAY WAY too low.



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7436 times:

Not only was it super high, if you could see the PAPI that clearly from a passenger seat, it was probably way off the center line.

They might also have been doing a circle to land instruction. You don't see that very much at busy airports, but it does happen. I once was in a UAX LAX-ONT flight at 11p that did a circle to land. We basically leveled the wings right at the point of flare. Fun approach.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 7):

Not only was it super high, if you could see the PAPI that clearly from a passenger seat, it was probably way off the center line.

I think it's quite evident from the angle to the runway that the crew had already abandoned the approach by the time that picture was taken.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5553 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting Harmonium (Reply 3):
4 white lights = much too high.
3 white/1 red = still too high.
2 white/2 red = spot on!
1 white/3 red = too low now!
4 red lights = way too low.

White over white, you're outta sight.

Red over red, you're dead.

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 4):
The VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator) is showing that the plane was flying higher than a optimal approach angle.

It's actually a PAPI  

PAPI is always:

[light] [light] [light] [light]

VASI is usually:

[light] [light]

[light] [light]



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinemats01776 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2252 times:
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Quoting bueb0g (Reply 5):
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):

  
Thank you, gentlemen, I humbly stand corrected.   

Now that I think about it, I don't remember ever seeing a live PAPI when I was a student pilot back in the late 70s...
They were all VASIs at BED and ORH if my memory serves....

I am curious when the PAPIs began replacing VASIs.

Anyhow, where I live, Papi refers to a certain beloved designated hitter with the local major-league baseball team.

/M


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
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Landing and taking off many many times at AEP I can say that agressive approaches and takeoffs are not rare. Once on an AEP-MDZ AR 727-200 flight it seemed that just as we left the ground the plane banked towars the River. I´m sure safety was never compromised but the impression of the wing tip being too close to the asphalt was scary.

I have a few similar stories.



MGGS
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5553 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 10):
I am curious when the PAPIs began replacing VASIs.

VASIs are still very much common at airports with non-precision approaches (hence VASI for "visual" and PAPI for "precision").

Other than that, I've only been flying since 1999 (and on this Earth only since 1986).... so can't help ya there  



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
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