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AA Cancellations Continue  
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 28477 times:

Handling alot more AA cancellations today and for the next three days..just wondering how everyone has been dealt with by AA? In 50% of the situations AA rebooked on something that was almost 24 hours off from the original flight. They are offering refunds when asked.

327 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 28355 times:

This is what is bothering me. We return from BOS to ORD on AA on 10/14. A friend of mine is a pilot, so he checked loads. Our flight and every flight after ours is oversold by 5 to 7 seats. But, the inbound flight from ORD is less than half full. Assuming that AA is still suffering through crew and maintenance issues, that seems like a candidate for cancellation.

My wife has to be at work the next day, and our son has to be back in school. Staying in Boston overnight is not an option.


User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 28155 times:

I can tell you that already packed flights have been cancelled so im not sure there is really any method to the madness at this point..it is a fluid situation for sure so keep proactive to AA.com and best of luck

User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 28136 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 1):

I would call RES and politely ask to be put on a different carrier. You may want to wait until closer to your departure date to see how things at AA are going. If they are offering refunds they most likely will also be willing to route you on a different airline. I know lately I've had a lot of ppl on us who came from AA.


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1983 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 28040 times:

So for those of us not aware, why is AA cancelling so many flights? Have Hawaii flights been affected?


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4224 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 27970 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4):

Discussion underway here:

Lots Of AA Cancellations Today 9/17 (by ozark1 Sep 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Run an operation held together by only a few threads and then unilaterally screw your employees... well, that's what happens!



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 27438 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4):
So for those of us not aware, why is AA cancelling so many flights? Have Hawaii flights been affected?

So far only the MD83 and 737 flights have been affected, so no threat to Hawaii flights....yet.

N737AA


User currently onlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 899 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 27351 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
Run an operation held together by only a few threads and then unilaterally screw your employees... well, that's what happens!

Or .... have your pilots and mechanists take things into their own hands and screw the passengers .... well that's what happens.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27179 times:

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 3):
I would call RES and politely ask to be put on a different carrier. You may want to wait until closer to your departure date to see how things at AA are going. If they are offering refunds they most likely will also be willing to route you on a different airline. I know lately I've had a lot of ppl on us who came from AA.

But, I have gold status at AA. If I get booke to another carrier, then I'm paying for checked bags, slumming it through through the main security checkpoint, sitting in the back of the plane, etc.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1204 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 26922 times:
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Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):

Sounding a bit entitled, arent' we? Take you chances with AA then and don't slum through security checkpoint and sit in the front of the AA plane if it in fact operates. Jeez. As crews runs out of legal hours expect even more last minute cancellations between now and the end of the month. I was struck at the decline in overall pilot count from this time last year. Not much room there for scheduling disruptions.



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1568 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 26809 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
But, I have gold status at AA. If I get booke to another carrier, then I'm paying for checked bags, slumming it through through the main security checkpoint, sitting in the back of the plane, etc.

I had sympathy for your situation all the way up until this point. Apparently your bag fees, and "slumming" it through airport security is more important then your wife getting back to work and your kid going back to school!

Good Luck!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 26708 times:

I see that 4 of 5 flight from ORD to HPN today were delayed laat night, probably relaed to crew problems.

User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 26568 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 11):

That's Chautauqua and believe me, they have their own set of problems independent of AA.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 26388 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 1):
My wife has to be at work the next day, and our son has to be back in school. Staying in Boston overnight is not an option.

Hate to sound rude, but that's why you never plan to be back last second with the airlines. Even when they are at their highest on-time rates, best labor relations, etc, something can always happen...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23223 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 26295 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Hate to sound rude, but that's why you never plan to be back last second with the airlines.

He's obviously not planning it "last second," as there are multiple flights after his.

An airline where things are so bad that I have to leave a day or more of buffer is not an airline I'd like to fly.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 26179 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
But, I have gold status at AA. If I get booke to another carrier, then I'm paying for checked bags, slumming it through through the main security checkpoint, sitting in the back of the plane, etc.

Reminds me of the story of an American lady who, when told her that her TATL flight was cancelled due to the Icelandic Volcanic eruptions, queried whether that applied to her because she was travelling business class.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 26161 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
An airline where things are so bad that I have to leave a day or more of buffer is not an airline I'd like to fly.

If you absolutely positively have to be there, you should be leaving a day of buffer on ANY airline.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23223 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 26075 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
If you absolutely positively have to be there, you should be leaving a day of buffer on ANY airline.

On BOS-CHI, a route with some 30 daily flights on 4 carriers? Maybe in the winter, but other than that, give me a break.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinegegarrenton From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 26019 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 15):
Reminds me of the story of an American lady who, when told her that her TATL flight was cancelled due to the Icelandic Volcanic eruptions, queried whether that applied to her because she was travelling business class.

lol.


User currently offlinevictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25856 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
I would call RES and politely ask to be put on a different carrier. You may want to wait until closer to your departure date to see how things at AA are going. If they are offering refunds they most likely will also be willing to route you on a different airline. I know lately I've had a lot of ppl on us who came from AA.

Just try getting through to reservations! One of my co workers here has been on hold for 2 hours.

I have been loyal to American Airlines as my work takes me frequently to Latin America. However, I think it is time to change. Do they honestly expect consumers to stay with them while they continue to play their games?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25801 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
If you absolutely positively have to be there, you should be leaving a day of buffer on ANY airline.

On BOS-CHI, a route with some 30 daily flights on 4 carriers? Maybe in the winter, but other than that, give me a break.

What if you have a bomb threat or something stupid that shuts down the airport for hours? I mean to each's own, and I hope ckfred made it back yesterday, but I'd still give at least a day of buffer. Blame whoever, but at the end of the day, you still have to tell your boss why YOU weren't back in time, and I'm sure the first thing out of his/her mouth was "shoulda came back a day earlier"



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23223 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25758 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Blame whoever, but at the end of the day, you still have to tell your boss why YOU weren't back in time, and I'm sure the first thing out of his/her mouth was "shoulda came back a day earlier"

I guess my bosses are different than yours, because I've never worked for a boss for whom "the airport was shut down for a bomb threat" was not an acceptable excuse. YMMV.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 588 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25714 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting N737AA (Reply 6):
So far only the MD83 and 737 flights have been affected, so no threat to Hawaii flights....yet.

FWIW, I flew through ORD and DFW last week, on MD80s and 737s, and all my flights were on time departures and arrivals. Even had the new Boeing Sky Interior yesterday out of DFW.


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4224 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25711 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):

I guess my bosses are different than yours, because I've never worked for a boss for whom "the airport was shut down for a bomb threat" was not an acceptable excuse. YMMV.

No kidding... how ignorant would a boss have to be to not be understanding that crap happens from time to time?



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 25638 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 1):
We return from BOS to ORD on AA on 10/14.

Pssst. There's a wonderful option available to you: Amtrak. Their train "The Lake Shore Limited" leaves Boston around noon and gets you to Chicago around 9:30 the next morning. You can book 2 roomettes, enjoy great hot meals at no charge and be 100% relaxed leading up to the trip and during the trip.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider it.


25 TVNWZ : It is a very rare occurance for me to have any trouble same day flying. And I do it weekly. In the last two years I have been late only three times,
26 Post contains images BHMNONREV : I'm booked on AA on 10/11 IAH-MIA-STT and return on the 15th. Does Amtrak offer a Hover-Craft option?
27 XFSUgimpLB41X : Anyone notice how most of the cancellations have been cancelled the day prior, even though the press release AA put out blamed pilots on last minute w
28 aluminumtubing : Most all cancelations are being coded OP ADM versus MECH or OP CREW. Just maybe everything coming out of Centerport is not as it seems. Makes you go
29 DocLightning : Do you know how much that will cost? He might as well by F-class tickets on another airline and fly his whole family that way.
30 Cubsrule : Or its on time performance, which I expect is abysmal?
31 Post contains images par13del : Maybe the creditors and management for AA hang out with the NFL owners and they all believe that their product is inelastic, fans are gonna watch wha
32 cosyr : and he should feel entitled. With elite status, he is the reason pilots have a job. I feel for the pilots, they have had a decade of bad leadership,
33 Post contains images par13del : Often said, how exactly does one do this? AA actually went public with Chpt.11, and the laws allow them to tell their employees exactly how much they
34 N62NA : No, they don't, nor do they go Miami to Los Angeles because if they did, I would cancel my upcoming AA flight MIA-LAX and go Amtrak. Probably around
35 xdlx : Part of the problem is very simple..... just like the last 10 years. The managment reuqested, and was granted the ability to throw the previous labor
36 windy95 : Do you blame them? Over a decade of no pay raises and now they are being asked to give more. Layoffs and more cuts equals an employee who will not do
37 KBJCpilot : My company always uses AA when we fly to ORD and DFW. We have a great corporate discount and have seemed to be pretty happy with their product. Our in
38 victrola : There are probably thousands of companies like yours who will soon be making similar decisions. That is a lot of money.
39 RyanairGuru : It is a lot of money - but I think at the same time it is not too big of an issue. 6 months we had practically daily threads about how corporates and
40 aluminumtubing : Apparently there are a couple of Senators, Marco Rubio (R) Florida and John Cornyn (R) Texas that have been tweeting their extreme displeasure of AA w
41 commavia : And apparently said Senators simply asked the pilots point blank what was causing the delays and the pilots of course said it had nothing to do with
42 aluminumtubing : True, but he also mentioned both pilots were ex military officers, proud Americans and defenders of the Constitution, etc. His words, not mine. Perso
43 spiritair97 : I think that sounds more like planning to get the most out of your trip as you can. I did this recently on a MYR-CLT-LGA trip the day before I went b
44 Post contains images commavia : So? What on earth difference does that make? It doesn't matter if the Captain was Captain America. There are still pilots intentionally causing a slo
45 dirtyfrankd : I'm Exec Plat on AA and received an e-mail from Suzanne Rabin a few days ago, here it is: Dear __________________, At American, we always do our best
46 aluminumtubing : These issues are usually quickly taken care of, or in most cases are placardable by the flight crews taking a couple of minutes without the need for
47 XFSUgimpLB41X : And yet most of the flight cancellations are being done by admin at least the day prior. Goodness gracious me... Which one of these is not like the o
48 dirtyfrankd : I just want to understand the logic behind filing increased maintenance reports other than just making life harder on management. Is there anything to
49 aluminumtubing : Just out. AA has requested we restart negotiations. APA is convening a board meeting on Wednesday to decide how to proceed. The want to make sure AA i
50 NWADTWE16 : This is exactly what happenned with NWA pilots and also the Mechanics in 98'-99'..im sure its happened with others..seems like what a work group does
51 commavia : Well obviously. "The system" - including crew scheduling, maintenance manning, spare parts, facilities utilization, and on and on - is optimized for
52 idlewildchild : And I'm confused. If the delays are happening at the time of departure because pilots are doing a work to rule, how does reducing the schedule 2% cha
53 Post contains images gegarrenton : Thanks for the heads up.
54 N62NA : You are directing your ire at the Senators, yes? Aluminumtubing was just quoting the Senators.
55 aluminumtubing : Some people seem to have a hard time believing that the APA is not the brunt of the problem here. Just look at the last few days worth of cancelations
56 N62NA : They were last year in the late Fall season when they dropped the daily 777 on MIA-LAX-MIA for just that reason. If they are STILL short on 777 pilot
57 DeltaMD90 : The US military is pretty strict on you getting back when you're supposed to. Maybe bomb threat is a little much but something like weather, or even
58 aluminumtubing : Yes, it is unbelievable. Even my dog is more trainable and he ain't too bright.
59 commavia : The context of another poster's post, in response to an earlier post of mine, was clearly that these two pilots were veterans, and therefore that bol
60 XFSUgimpLB41X : What you call minor, or trivial mx items cannot be over looked. I'm not sure how AA's procedures deal with non safety of flight items- knowing overal
61 aluminumtubing : I honestly think they are pre-canceling flights due to a very real pilot shortage more so than maintenance issues. I define inappropriate as doing so
62 commavia : Nobody is suggesting that any maintenance issue should be "overlooked." However, several weeks ago, it appeared that such issues were routinely defer
63 aluminumtubing : Most cabin write ups that I receive from the flight attendants that don't come from deplaning passengers, come from boarding passengers. Boarding pas
64 XFSUgimpLB41X : That's because they were being overlooked when legally they should have been taken care of right when it was discovered. We do it to be nice and for
65 commavia : The company - and the pilot - were legally required to "take care of" these minor maintenance issues immediately upon discovery? Does this mean the c
66 XFSUgimpLB41X : Yep, happens all the time. It's for the convenience of the customer and reliability of the operation.
67 TUSAA : What do you think is gonna happen when they start outsourcing all line and RON maintenance at the smaller stations such as PHX,SAN,SEA where alot of
68 commavia : So I guess the question then becomes: how do Delta, United and USAirways address this, seeing as all three of those airlines have also outsourced gro
69 XFSUgimpLB41X : DL realized they cut too many and now have mainline mx staff at quite a few "outstations."
70 TUSAA : Those airlines didn't try to outsource 30 stations and replace thousands of employees in a 30 day period like AA is doing. AA is trying to get this a
71 blueflyer : Something in this letter doesn't make sense. If pilots are indeed writing up more items at the last minute to cause a maintenance delay, I'm not sure
72 aluminumtubing : An update on AA requesting that APA re-engage in negotiations. No real surprise there. AA actually made the request over the weekend, but APA leadersh
73 ckfred : I would completely agree with you in winter. ORD has a habit of going into ground stops with 6-hour delays, even with only a few inches of snow. By t
74 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : That must be due to mx write ups at the time of departure.
75 Mir : If you have to be in CHI on Tuesday morning, you should not be leaving on Monday afternoon/evening. Monday morning will probably give you enough buff
76 SHUPirate1 : Let me ask this...this December, I have an engagement in Las Vegas that requires me to be tied down until 5:00 PM (at the Convention Center) on Decemb
77 Mir : Schedule appropriately so that you don't have events on consecutive days that you absolutely have to be at. There's nothing wrong with trying to fly
78 XFSUgimpLB41X : Really? Reliability is far higher than that (at least in the DL system). If you're nonrevving, yes. I positive space routinely for company operations
79 norcal : Exactly after a certain point of volunteering for OT or getting junior manned into your days off you just get tired. I remember during my regional da
80 N737AA : The mechanics are not involved in this mess other than cleaning it up and they are doing a fine job doing that. Yes, the system is a mess now with cr
81 aluminumtubing : All I will say is hmmmmmmmm.
82 gegarrenton : Bwhahahahahaha. Right. The same DL that has not been able to get me from DTW to ORD in a 36 hour period with 8 scheduled flights a day? Any other air
83 AAexecplat : I don't even know what to say anymore...I am all in favor of pilots getting paid well, all in favor of safe operations, and pilots having appropriate
84 Post contains images RyanairGuru : I am going to rank this as one of the best posts I have ever read on ANet. Ever. I agree 100% with what you say - in fact I'd go so far as to say tha
85 AAR90 : By following two simple rules: 1. If you are not having fun, you are doing something wrong. 2. Life is too short to worry about things you don't cont
86 Post contains links TWA85 : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...-ready-resume-talks-013034366.html Has the AA pilot's voice finally been heard?
87 aluminumtubing : I didn't say ex military pilots are perfect. I said I would take their integrity over that of a suit anytime. The odds are definitely in their favor.
88 aluminumtubing : Significant cancellations again today based on mechanicals. The pilots can write things up, but maintenance takes them out of service. AND, they only
89 ROSWELL41 : Good post. I hope both sides reach a consensual agreement. It appears that AMR management is being punitive with the pilots and using the abrogration
90 aluminumtubing : Thank you.
91 AAR90 : Just pointing out the obvious. Odds are statistical averages. Individuals are unique. Just because those being cited are ex-military does not make th
92 aluminumtubing : Ok.
93 AAR90 : An exceptional well-thought out post, AAexecplat. Only one very minor correction.... The terms being imposed are not "the most stringent terms possibl
94 ckfred : My father used to fly to TWF from ORD, connecting at SLC from either AA or UA to RW. He routinely took a 6pm departure out of ORD, getting into SLC a
95 ckfred : AA is doing proactive cancelations, so that they have sufficient resources to deal with getting mechanical and crew scheduling issues resolved. Fight
96 aluminumtubing : No, that is incorrect. Supposedly at some point Eagle pilots will be given the opportunity to flow over at a given ratio. But right now, we still hav
97 readytotaxi : I got a surprise today, just after 10:45 had AA87 over head dumping fuel, LHR-ORD. Did several laps of the Ockham beacon and then headed back to LHR.
98 Post contains links gegarrenton : AA87 Return To Heathrow (by PA727 Sep 25 2012 in Civil Aviation)#last
99 aluminumtubing : As a side note, I have noticed that many SA flights out of DFW the last several days have been significantly delayed before the outbound crews arrived
100 Post contains images readytotaxi : Thanks for the link.
101 N62NA : How far we have fallen that this is the state of the airline industry in the USA.
102 Mir : People want cheap fares. You simply can't cut costs down and expect to run as reliable an operation. The airlines have to run fuller planes, which me
103 DeltaMD90 : Not to mention weather. Or the fact that even perfectly maintained planes break. The airlines are doing pretty well in their on-time rates I do belie
104 quiet1 : I'm glad to read that little dialogue as I think it's not widely known how maintenance reporting is handled. I always thought the captain, by FAR or
105 par13del : FAA and company regulations also require the Captains approval of the deferred items, in every airline there are pilots who simply want to fly, maint
106 Cubsrule : Who are these "people?" Most business travelers - I'm certainly in this group - would gladly pay a couple of hundred dollars more for scheduling cert
107 DashTrash : Anything that can be deferred is on the MEL. Inop reading light is a good example of something that IS in there. I see the confusion. It appears the
108 Revelation : A few comments on your excellent post. Right, but this is no surprise. Management / big business has taken away the union's ability to openly strike a
109 aluminumtubing : The fist statement is 50/50. The second is spot on.
110 Post contains images commavia : Well let's hope - beyond hope, perhaps - that this extremely toxic negative situation can be turned into a positive. A new negotiation that produced
111 ckfred : What needs to happen is that the Railway Labor Act is amended, so airlines are no longer subject to it. It made sense in the days of regulation, when
112 flyhossd : Hmmm... I find it interesting that the majority on this board are more than willing to accept AA's word without proof - yet NOT accept the pilots at
113 HPRamper : Completely agree with you. It makes no sense whatsoever in these days.
114 justplanenutz : Not sure I agree with you there. Had this been done in conjunction with deregulation, then yes. The industry was much more fragmented then. However,
115 justplanenutz : Heck, you can make a better case for repealing the RLA for railroads than airlines! Since WW2, railroad employment has fallen from 1.5 million to 225,
116 AAexecplat : That's all riveting stuff, but it doesn't explain why cancellations and delays have skyrocketed since the pilot contracts were abrogated...
117 HPRamper : 4 major carriers, whose networks are/will be so massive and comprehensive that almost every market sees or will see service by all of them at the loc
118 flyfree727 : Because their pissed! DUH Just like AA was pissed when they voted NO and decided to spank them with the 1113. AA ORD[Edited 2012-09-26 19:09:17]
119 commavia : And ... we're there. Simple, eloquent, accurate. There is so much baggage on both sides - and in both cases for some legitimate reasons - that both s
120 justplanenutz : The argument would be that the system could not easily absorb the loss of capacity from one of the "massive networks" and that that would be disruptiv
121 AAexecplat : My question was of rhetorical nature...the point I was trying to counter was that the pilots were not engaging in some form of self help...
122 ckfred : But, going back to my ORD-SLC route, if UA goes out, there is AA (non-stop or via DFW), DL (non-stop or via MSP), US (via PHX) or WN out of MDW (non-
123 Mir : The general travelling public. First of all, while I'm sure you feel that way now, I have my doubts that when push came to shove, that would actually
124 justplanenutz : I am not a labor lawyer, so I won't hold myself out as one. I have however been involved in the RLA process before. My view is that Taft-Hartley is a
125 flyhossd : Actually, it might. The pilot staffing at AA hasn't remained static. Post bankruptcy, the company has continued to allow pilot attrition due to retir
126 justplanenutz : But hasn't AA reduced capacity along the way as well?
127 HPRamper : The market would not be able to absorb the loss of capacity but it wouldn't need to. It would adjust to demand - meaning coach prices would skyrocket
128 flyhossd : Good point. It's my understanding that the pilot staffing shortfall has exceeded the schedule or capacity reductions. How many pilots does AA have on
129 LAXdude1023 : At AA management and the APA are turning into Israel and Palestine. Eventually they have both wronged each other to the point that its pointless to bl
130 par13del : How does AA bring them back, are they under contract or some obligation to report to work, what would be their compensation, the same as when they we
131 AAexecplat : You are delusional if you think that business travel would not be impacted if fares skyrocketed. I am pretty sure my employer would tell me to get us
132 LAXdude1023 : Some will, some wont. I work with a company that (at least 8-10 times a week) spends $1200 per person to fly from Dallas to Cedar Rapids. I work with
133 B727FA : Keep in mind with flights being CX'd: if there is flight on the SAME CALENDAR DAY as your original flight; even an EARLIER flight, you will ONLY be bo
134 aluminumtubing : Remember, I am just the messenger and currently I am unarmed. Apparently after the "letter" from Denise Lynn and another letter from her underling ind
135 N62NA : It seems to me (at least looking at the MIA airport flights) that the number of horrendously delayed flights and cancelled flights have dropped off qu
136 xdlx : I really do not understand something. What did DP offered that the AA guys liked so much. Are the AA guys going to the top of the seniority in a AA/US
137 aluminumtubing : I can only speak for the AA pilots. We are just desperate for a change in leadership. Once Crandall left, no one here feels that any of the top leade
138 B757forever : Or much sooner if the alledged promises are not fulfilled...
139 davidCA : APA's President has apparently written to his members to tell them to knock it off (although he admits to nothing). Will this make a difference or wil
140 AAR90 : Correction please. You are repeating the APA public relations talking points. Nobody can "speak for the AA pilots"... especially APA. The AA pilot gr
141 ckfred : The pilots I know who fly for AA were madder than hops at Clinton (even though most of them had voted for Bob Dole in 1996), because they lost their
142 B377 : And yet if you read Crandall's letter in response to one of your fellow pilots questions located in another A-net file, you will find that the reason
143 futureualpilot : The problem is if labor gives an inch, management takes a mile, stuffs their pockets with money and calls labor the problem because they could only g
144 silentbob : I could not agree more. Stop looking at the next quarter and build the company for the long term.
145 blueflyer : Guys in the business know that businesses will adapt. Some will continue on flying as if nothing had happened because it is essential to generating s
146 aluminumtubing : He is doing what the lawyers are telling him to do. Let me clarify. I am saying what the guys I know and fly with are saying. Otherwise, I can't say
147 Post contains links justplanenutz : Are you sure the pilots were mad about Clinton intervening in the FA strike? Far be in from me to suggest something at AA didn't make somebody mad, b
148 HPRamper : US is running fine. Tell me what Parker should be doing right now, instead of pursuing this deal. And if it has anything to do with union squabbles,
149 Post contains links justplanenutz : Agreed. An entrepreneurial pilot group would serve AA/APA well right now. You can talk about WN's current wage leadership all you want, but you can't
150 AAexecplat : Exactly. The essential business travel will be happening, but any non-essential business travel for stuff like training, corporate meetings, periodic
151 incitatus : Do you really believe this? Really...??? If at this particular moment in time your wages and benefits were not on the chopping block, would you be as
152 N737AA : Amen!!!! But thats what all Wall Street cares about so thats not likely to change. N737AA
153 ckfred : There are people on Wall Street who do understand that regular earnings growth (say 5% to 7% annually) is better than trying to do something that dou
154 commavia : I disagree with that premise. There is nothing wrong with having finance-savvy people in the airline business. In an industry as challenged at value
155 flyhossd : It's accepted as a "fact" on this board that there is a pilot slow-down of some sort going on - but where's the beef? That is, has AA provided any evi
156 commavia : It's being accepted as "fact" because, to use the courtroom analogy, circumstantial evidence may not constitute a "smoking gun," but it is still admi
157 mcg : I figure the honeymoon period on a US/AA merger would be about six months. After that time the s**t storm will start. Merging seniority lists? Yikes,
158 futureualpilot : Southwest's industry leading wages are a result of the rest falling down around them, prior to all of these bankruptcies Suthwest was near the bottom
159 mcg : My wife had an AA flight to DFW yesterday afternoon. Took 40 minutes to taxi from the arrival runway to gate. She described it as a "slow crawl".
160 commavia : ... not to mention of course Southwest's conscious strategy of buying off labor peace using unsustainable fuel hedging gains. Southwest's organic gro
161 TVNWZ : Why not? The pilots agreed to that scheme.
162 justplanenutz : That is certainly the answer I would expect. But as you sit 7th for takeoff behind 6 large RJs with someone else's pretty paint job on them, crewed w
163 flyhossd : Then why isn't AA in court seeking an injunction? Yes, the internet is full of anecdotes about everything. Again, "Where's the beef?" If AA has proof
164 Post contains links justplanenutz : Seems like they are pretty close to it, and I am sure there is some strategy as to how long to wait to do so: "American Airlines threatened to take i
165 Post contains images commavia : Because the burden of proof is much higher in a court of law than in the court of public opinion. I doubt AMR has enough concrete proof of intentiona
166 par13del : Well UA pilots had a portion of UA before and that did not work out so well, as with everything else, just owning shares does not mean you will be a
167 futureualpilot : Agreements were made when times were different. I'd be more open to management suggestions had the pilots been allowed to work with management to fin
168 commavia : Delta has found a "healthy balance," and that healthy balance, apparently much to the chagrin of many Delta and non-Delta mainline pilots in the U.S.
169 futureualpilot : Right, however the overall number of aircraft and seats being outsourced will be reduced. More large RJs, yes, but an overall decline in RJ flying. T
170 commavia : Right ... and as I said, AA is moving in much the same direction. AA has, as of now, open firm orders or near-firm commitments on, by my count, 404 B
171 Post contains images B727FA : Well, semantics aside, APA is STILL the AA pilot's agent and as they are not decertified, they DO speak for the pilots. If there is a disconnect betw
172 commavia : No, not sort of. I was never speaking about the overall allowable fleet size of DCI in totality. I was speaking specifically about small RJs versus l
173 Post contains images justplanenutz : So DL, the folks that invented the RJ and exploited it with the LEAST restrictive SCOPE clause in the industry, has been able to grow the whole busin
174 Post contains images commavia : It is a fascinating dichotomy. It definitely raises questions about who is actually protecting what, and challenges "conventional wisdom" and logical
175 Post contains images par13del : Come on, let's be fair, the APA and pilots are doing enough to warrant our wrath, we don't need to have selective memory and pretend as if DL did not
176 flyhossd : After reading your reply, it's clear that we're addressing two somewhat different issues. I've primarily been addressing the alleged pilot "sick-out"
177 TVNWZ : RJs were not forced anywhere. The union pilots agreed to allow other union pilots, in smaller planes flying for other companies, fly these routes. Un
178 commavia : You are correct. I was never once referring to a "sick-out." I take the APA entirely at its word that that is not happening. Like I said. Again - I d
179 par13del : A question, does airport ground controllers or ATC have some say in this, or at least if the slow taxis start to affect airport operation efficieny,
180 Post contains images aluminumtubing : I was speaking about what I am hearing from my fellow pilots. I have been called a lot of things, but never delusional. . I certainly don't think he
181 Post contains images commavia : Two words: Carl Icahn. "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it." I'm not saying the unions aren't smart to have been doing what they
182 ckfred : This is quite plausible, since APA has done it in the past. My understanding is that pilots were doing this in 1990-91, while they were in contract n
183 26point2 : I can't be bothered to read 182 posts from a load of whiners for the answer.... Is there any truth to the rumor of a one-day AA pilot walk out Nov 1?
184 aluminumtubing : I have not heard ANYTHING to that affect. I hope I didn't say that in a whiny way...
185 AAR90 : If speaking in an official capacity as an APA official, then it is acceptable to claim you are speaking for all AA pilots. That claim may or may not
186 flyfree727 : Why would anyone even bother to address your concerns with a post-starter like that?? AA ORD
187 futureualpilot : Yes, RJs were allowed by scope relief back when pilots received an increase in compensation and a good contract. Then airlines started using Chapter
188 Post contains links commavia : And the fun continues ... The Dallas Morning News' indispensable airline business blog has collected American's on-time statistics for over a month go
189 B727FA : No. AFTER ML growth. Words matter. While your basic statement is true (LRJ gowth is permitted) your factual statement is false...that it's coming at
190 Post contains images futureualpilot : You make a good point and I do agree that RJs are a necessary function of a successful airline. I still defer to CO and their scope, they were a viab
191 Post contains images Revelation : "Striking way" - LOL! In any case, where does this all leave us? We get it that you're unhappy because your travel plans are all fouled up, and your
192 BarryH : I’ve watched in post after post as people arm chair quarterback management (all airlines) and their decisions with what on the surface appears very
193 pu : Management isn't the only party allowed access to bankruptcy court. . Any judgment AMR sought against the union can be dealt with the same way AMR de
194 B377 : And I believe your statement is very factual. Based on the "adult" response of APA to the threatening AA letter to take this to court for a TRO. Here
195 par13del : Pilots alll over admit this but nothing ever happened, so the RJ business grew, airlines within an airline etc. etc. etc. DL's change which some are
196 xdlx : The only fair way to do a AA/US merger is to integrate all three pilot groups under one seniority list. By Seniority ONLY. DP has not been able to do
197 norcal : Here's an explanation from a DALPA email, my understanding is the large RJs growth requires the 717s, though I haven't found the email specifying tha
198 Revelation : Seems like the right thing to do from their side. There is precedent for judges to decide, as mentioned above, work-to-rule is an illegal job action,
199 N62NA : Well, it's D-Day for me. Currently sitting on AA 277 MIA-LAX.... they boarded us around 10am for a 10:45am scheduled departure. Well, it's coming up o
200 Post contains links Revelation : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL277 says you won't be going for another 20 mins or so, best case, and that the flight has been 45 minutes late,
201 XFSUgimpLB41X : No, B-717s have to be delivered for any more jumbo RJs to come. When the jumbo RJs are subsequently delivered, a certain amount of 50 seat RJs must b
202 par13del : I don't understand the correlation, but will attempt to do some searches to get a better handle. Obviously this prevents or makes it more difficult f
203 aluminumtubing : Right now, both sides are playing with fire. As anyone knows, when one plays with fire there is a tendency to get burned. AA can definitely escalate
204 Revelation : 12:09 departure, so about 1.5 hrs late, twice the seven day average. My guess is that we'll all find out in the near term, and it won't be pretty. I
205 aluminumtubing : I donned the tin hat and flak jacket years ago. I always made sure I had enough outside income to support myself independent of the airline industry.
206 Cubsrule : Are all of the UA, US, DL and NW pilots who did not engage in this sort of behavior during their respective bankruptcies fools?
207 mcg : Maybe it's time to simply shut AA down and liquidate.
208 DeltaMD90 : Difference is certain AA pilots seem to drag *** while doing it
209 aluminumtubing : A wee bit short sighted, don't you think. How about before we go making over the top unproductive comments, we agree that both sides show a little ma
210 Post contains images aluminumtubing : To say we don't have a few bad apples would be extremely disingenuous. I have been around bad apples throughout my civilian and military flying, incl
211 flyfree727 : The UCC will eventually have to "wake up." My guess is a change in management would immediately fix AA's "operational" problems. AA employees, as prov
212 aluminumtubing : Sad, but true.
213 davidCA : Thanks for your posts, Aluminumtubing. They're informative, and I admire your ability to see both sides of the issues and to respond as rationally as
214 Cubsrule : I'd agree with that. Surely, though, you'd agree with me that other carriers didn't see the same operational disruptions that AA pilots (among other
215 blueflyer : A change in AMR management is absolutely needed, but in order to restore the confidence of investors, it must be matched by a change in APA managemen
216 aluminumtubing : Unfortunately, I have to be very careful what I say. Over the years, there have very definitely been serious operational issues at other carries, up
217 par13del : Welll one has to consider the environment in terms of the relationship between management and the workforce, UA comes closest to AA and we all know t
218 aluminumtubing : Thanks. Sometimes, I just think about aborting my posts and just going around. But I have had several private messages asking me to continue posting.
219 mcg : Actually, maybe not. Any employer/labor group relationship defined by 'cloud of hate and disdain' is not sustainable. Maybe it's better to just face
220 Post contains images aluminumtubing : Again, a wee bit short sighted, don't you think. I think it much more adult to solve a problem than to run away a coward. Men solve problems, cowards
221 par13del : System would adapt in a few years when new entrants force the new incumbents to lower prices and improve capacity after the massive fall off. As for
222 aluminumtubing : Whether the pilots should have struck or not is a mute point. The NMB was not doing there job and it was all so political, that the parties were neve
223 BarryH : They're wide awake. And I'd presume performing the function they're assigned. Which is to dispassionately participate (not decide in isolation) what'
224 norcal : It means that any pilot on the Delta seniority list at the date of signing (whenever the contract was ratified) will be furlough protected. If the co
225 pu : If this were a matter of choosing suppliers of fungible goods that would be entirely true. However, it is the failure to account for the human factor
226 Cubsrule : Just to be clear, then, do you agree that AA pilots are taking this job action to make a point with management, likely in violation of Section 362?
227 aluminumtubing : Just to be clear, absolutely not. I am not aware of ANY job action. Period. I made a general statement that AA does not know how to treat its employe
228 Cubsrule : All right. Then we are back to my original question: if all that is going on is pilots being more careful because FAA is more diligent when a carrier
229 Post contains images aluminumtubing : Surprisingly, I knew that! I honestly can't tell you for sure. I know they have non-pilot scheduling issues as well as shortages of employees in gene
230 norcal : The difference is that this is the first time a pilot group has had their contract tossed by a judge. Everyone else had negotiated contracts in place
231 aluminumtubing : Precisely! Doing your job to the best of ones ability is not a job action. Anyone who disagrees with that would surely understand why this country is
232 flyfree727 : Thats wonderful for you to say that. Then I guess it shifts all the blame for the operational issues back to them.. I am sure APA/ TWU and the other
233 BarryH : Or, are they just doing what needs to be done? I know quite a few senior airline execs and this "us vs. them" mentality that's being portrayed here i
234 Cubsrule : But is your certificate any more on the line at AA than at another bankrupt carrier? As a matter of contract law, that's correct. As a matter of bank
235 commavia : Thank you for correcting me - my mistake. I was under the impression that some of the growth in large RJs was permitted even before the 717s arrive.
236 aluminumtubing : While I don't associate with airline executives, I have had friends that are or were senior executives of major corporations. VP's up to and includin
237 aluminumtubing : I appreciate your candor as well. And trust me, I GET it. I am truly sorry this mess is causing you and others grief. I appreciate each and every one
238 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I've been pretty critical of the rebellious AA pilots on this forum, but in my opinion (and I'm sure many others) you prove that you are a profession
239 aluminumtubing : Thank you. I had 4 airline offers and chose AA. I still think I made the right decision and I hope time continues to validate that decision. I will s
240 SHUPirate1 : Here's my question, and this probably cuts to the heart of the matter...why does AMR Corp. (and, for that matter, nearly every other unionized compan
241 B377 : Yet the Pilots LBFO was much better than the ones given to the AFPA and TWU. And your coworker pilots voted it down. The poor gate agents and managem
242 silentbob : Most are, that's why our economy is in the state it's in. Making decisions with long term impact, while being focused on the stock prices over the sh
243 aluminumtubing : I will post this lesson of "reality" on the pilots bulletin board in operations. We had NO idea how this was supposed to work. Thanks for the informa
244 par13del : Why, management are charged with running the company and taking care of the investors portfolio, they have been following the investors guidance. Inv
245 aluminumtubing : They have done a horrific job of taking care of their investors by anyones measurement. They have underperformed their peers at the other airlines by
246 Cubsrule : To me, writing up a coffeepot and taking a 2 hour delay to fix it is not giving 100 percent to passengers. I realize that we do not - and probably wi
247 aluminumtubing : I cannot imagine anyone taking a 2 hour delay to fix a coffee pot. I just don't believe it. First and foremost, most coffee pots do not break. They a
248 par13del : I quite agree, my response to the poster was that restoring confidence of the investors has nothing to do with replacing union leadership, I don't se
249 aluminumtubing : I get that. My point is trying to point out the humor / double standard in all this. If the union were to tell the pilots to fly aggressively safe, i
250 oneskyjet : Aggressively safe does not equal stupidly safe.
251 aluminumtubing : Actually, DeltaMD90 selected that quote of mine. And I couldn't agree more with your statement in general. However, are you privy to exactly what is
252 pu : Who are the investors of AMR at this point and who put them there? Seems to me mgmt failed the old owners, fired them, and replaced them with new own
253 Post contains links commavia : The earliest public statement from AA that I could find merely mentioned sick calls as one of "a number of factors" affecting the delays, along with
254 Post contains images aluminumtubing : If all this wasn't so serious, I would find it quite comical as well. But then again, I have a very twisted sense of humor.
255 Revelation : The reality of their situation is different. They are much easier to replace and the weak economy leaves them not many if any other options. I think
256 Post contains links norcal : Yes because other carriers had contracts in bankruptcy. This is the first time a 1113C motion has been granted against a pilot group. In every other
257 commavia : Powerful stuff. Good points. I guess I already know the answer, but why on earth doesn't the APA say essentially that (perhaps minus the "AMR hates i
258 mcg : How do you explain a 40+ minute taxi from runway to gate at DFW? perhaps not sure about speed limit? Sorry, I don't mean to sound overly negative, bu
259 Post contains links mcg : Does this sound like a viable business?: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/op...tlantic-trip-turns-kafkaesque.html I'm just not sure the problems at
260 PITingres : I think you made some very good points, except for this one. Who is this "AMR" who hates their employees? I'm being serious here; you can work with r
261 Post contains images N62NA : Well, here is a public message to you: Please stick around and keep posting! Yep, all because of an air conditioning vent not working in one of the g
262 B377 : Good start. Now encourage your fellow pilots to follow it. Then after the Courts deny all appeals, after AA comes out of bankruptcy without a contrac
263 aluminumtubing : It's completely beyond me as well. It makes no sense. I have had problems where I couldn't figure out why things took so long. I can refuse and aircr
264 aluminumtubing : Once again, excellent advice. I am on top of it. I just don't know what i/ we would do with out all the excellent advice provided. It's truly amazing
265 N62NA : I don't know if this is just an AA thing or all the airlines do it this way, but if you're going to have an aircraft sitting around for a few hours,
266 aluminumtubing : That is an outstanding question. I have been asking myself that same question for the last several years. Actually though, I know the answer. They ar
267 aluminumtubing : Again, I am truly sorry your flight did not go as planned. This whole AA thing for whatever reason makes me sick to my stomach. And I have a strong s
268 par13del : Ahh no, management did not acquire the company debt, they are put in charge of managing the debt. Management persuaded the BOD that the only way to m
269 Post contains images Revelation : Well, on the good news side of the equation, it seems your crew made up for 40 minutes of the delay while airborne!
270 aluminumtubing : Actually, I have been earning more than that. But I am quite senior. The further you go down the list, the less you make obviously. And FO's certainl
271 mcg : Seems like you handled the delay well and I apologize on behalf of the passenger. The pilots on the flight in question made no PA and simply taxied v
272 ckfred : Yesterday, I called the AAdvantage Gold Desk to inquire about a flight that I have next month, #1689 BOS-ORD. It seems to cancel a lot, often a day ah
273 aluminumtubing : Thanks. I can't comment on the slow taxi, as I obviously wasn't there. Unfortunately, the FAA regulations prohibit us from making PA's while moving.
274 pu : No. Who brought the company into debt if not management? Who, exactly? I believe creditors are the only ones effectively "in the game" and I don't co
275 crAAzy : Of course they are. This should come as no surprise to the pilots and it should come as no surprise to any of the union groups that the further they
276 aluminumtubing : All true. I am not that worried about the vindictive part too much. Yes, they can do what they want. For now. There will be a consensual agreement so
277 Cubsrule : The trouble is that this nonsense has already done damage to passenger perceptions and will do more damage every day it wears on. Of all companies, A
278 par13del : I think we all know the answer to that one, the other labour groups have not had the power of flight crew and as such have been broken a long time ag
279 aluminumtubing : I am not referring to what is supposedly happening now. That is in my humble opinion AA running a very poor airline. I am talking about some point in
280 SHUPirate1 : Aluminumtubing, just wanted to ask my question again. Wasn't sure if you saw it the first time, after I posted at 1:30 AM local.
281 aluminumtubing : I am sorry I failed to respond. I did see your post and was distracted by another. Having one bargaining unit is impossible with groups so diverse as
282 SHUPirate1 : Point taken, and I understand on that point, but why does the TWU bargain on behalf of seven separate unions, when they are all basically bargaining a
283 aluminumtubing : You have a good point. That has been a bone of contention for some time. I know the mechanics for example have wanted to split off for some time for
284 commavia : A question many TWU members regularly ask. Incorrect. It benefits AA enormously, particularly in the case of the mechanics, because AA is able to pla
285 aluminumtubing : I knew someone could provide a better answer regarding the TWU!
286 YYZAMS : I didn't book on AA for my holiday because of this, even though it was cheaper. I am in support of the pilots, however, in the end I only have a limit
287 Cubsrule : I don't think there's anything "supposed" about the operational issues that are happening now. They have even made it in to the mainstream media; I h
288 ckfred : When I talk to union workers outside of the airline industry, it's definitely like the Three Muskateers---all for one and one for all. You don't see
289 aluminumtubing : I can't disagree the operation is not doing well to say the least. Where we disagree, is whether the pilots are to blame or whether AA is mismanaging
290 Cubsrule : Who is to blame doesn't make a lick of difference to me when I go to book a flight. It saddens me equally whether it's a job action, mismanagement or
291 Post contains images N62NA : I appreciate the response very much! And I also appreciate that response very much as well. Yes they did! And apparently with some pretty strong head
292 aluminumtubing : We are going to have to agree to agree. It saddens me more than you can ever know. I have given almost 30 years to this company. I and my family have
293 Post contains images Cubsrule :
294 mcg : What do you think the solution is? I just don't see a solution that makes the pilots happy and is economically viable for the company. Thus the 'rub'
295 Post contains images aluminumtubing : It's called maturity and compromise. I know, good luck with that.
296 Post contains images lightsaber : What is a viable middle ground? AMR must return to profit. I would be fine with the idea that employees would be paid less with a bonus at the year e
297 tonytifao : Big question here... AA must be losing a lot of money with these operational issues.... how much extra money is AA losing a day? Is there an end insig
298 DocLightning : If I might return to the actual original topic: are the delays letting up?
299 tonytifao : Exactly! Are there talks going on? Are people willing to work together? Is AA, whoever is to blame, realize their passengers and their reputation are
300 JAAlbert : AA's flight 1520 LAX to MIA - the flagship 777 service has been repeatedly "delayed" today. It was supposed to depart at 10:40 a.m.. As of this post,
301 us330 : AluminumTubing, just curious if you think that the pilots would be acting this way if new management had come in (not the mere replacing of Arpey by a
302 tonytifao : This is where AA is annoying. 1520 is delayed but the continuing flight, MIA GRU is still ontime! Lots of courtesy to their pax
303 n471wn : anyone who books on American during this slow-down deserves what they get . This is not going to go away.....just heard that Delta is honoring America
304 LAXintl : The weekend was not as bad for cancels, but ontime performance was weak. Saturday - 30 cancels - 62% ontime arrivals Sunday - 23 cancels - 55% OT Mon
305 audidudi : AA 1520 now looks to have been cancelled today as it no longer shows on FlightAware. Update from FlightAware now shows it took off at 2.57 PDT.[Edited
306 SCL767 : Yesterday, AA957 MIA-SCL was delayed for 9 hours and the flight departed MIA at 08:45AM! SCL pax are starting to avoid booking flights on AA due to t
307 LAXintl : 1520 is airborne - ETA MIA 2232. Equipment is now planned to continue on 995 MIA-GRU at 2345.
308 audidudi : AA 907 is now showing a 3 hours departure delay from MIA-GRU. AA 1520 departed LAX at 2.57 PDT for MIA, thus running about 4 hours late.[Edited 2012-1
309 audidudi : I hope that DL gets to keep some of AA's status customers permanently. As others have said, why would you book on AA at all during this slow-down, un
310 DocLightning : Do we know how that compares to the other majors? Why wouldn't they show the inevitable 4h delay?
311 aluminumtubing : I am not sure exactly what "acting this way" means. If it is a job action, as I have mentioned earlier, I don't believe the pilots are doing anything
312 us330 : I think the problem that American's pilots now face is that even if this statement is true, the pilots need to do a better PR job because the public
313 oneskyjet : Are you seriously still maintaining the fantasy that there is no pilot job action? Gimme a break: the numbers speak for themselves since mid Septembe
314 aluminumtubing : On the one hand, I couldn't agree more. On the other hand however, I am not really sure what the APA can do. The bottom line, is many people think th
315 Post contains images aluminumtubing : I think I have covered all this in my previous threads. So, no need to rehash. I speak from my heart and my viewpoint is just that, my viewpoint. I d
316 RyanairGuru : Just as I deserve sitting for 2 hours yesterday on a plane with - at best - dismal air conditioning in 95 degrees at MIA due to a maintenance right u
317 commavia : This battle of the wills has to end eventually - one side or the other has to cave. The pilots (and potentially to a lesser extent mechanics) are obvi
318 aluminumtubing : True statement. Excellent post as well.
319 LAXintl : Sure. Here are Sunday numbers for OALs. B6 - 1 cancel - 85% OT DL - 2 cancel - 87% OT UA - 8 cancel - 79% OT US - 3 cancel - 92% OT WN - 3 cancel - 8
320 RyanairGuru : I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me about what happened to AA1004 from MIA to RDU today. It was 90 minutes late and a friend on the flight to
321 LAXintl : 1004 was coded as a maintenance delay.
322 FlyASAGuy2005 : Sounds like standard fair although the agents may have went "above" a bit". The $50 credit is automatic for delays of 3 hours or more. Anything under
323 aluminumtubing : The maintenance delay may very well have caused the crew to go illegal.
324 RyanairGuru : Thanks guys. That makes more sense to me! I'd suggest that the person I got this didn't just make it up and was repeating what they'd heard from some
325 Tx2fl : To put things into perspective.. For the week of September 20th - 26th, Delta's completion factor averaged 100%; less than 1 per day for the week. Th
326 Post contains links LipeGIG : As this becomes too long, we are archiving this thread. We opened a new one so discussions can continue AA Cancellations Continue - Part II (by LipeGI
327 XT6Wagon : The irony here is that if AA goes under, who is ever going to hire a AA pilot from "the last days"? HR person: "Oh I see here that you were a pilot at
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