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CLT 2015 Expansion Plans  
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Link from the Airport Website:

Depicts terminal, new parallel runway & control tower expansion. Concourses A,B,E to be expanded. The A "annex" will actually be part of the new international concourse where the rental cars are presently located.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/A...nnualReportCouncilPresentation.pdf

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

The area around the E gates is a bottleneck at the moment, and adding gates where they are showing without any ramp improvements is going to make that even worse...turning a bottleneck into a logjam.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22932 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

I think my favorite part is the UA 72S in battleship grey on the cover, along with AC's old colors and a DC-9 in the bowling shoe.

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
The area around the E gates is a bottleneck at the moment, and adding gates where they are showing without any ramp improvements is going to make that even worse...turning a bottleneck into a logjam.

  

Would removing part of E and putting a tunnel underneath solve the problem? They wouldn't need the gate space after the B expansion.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinetoneale From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.

User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):

I'll so frustrated if they take that out


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

Maybe they make another overlook right next to the new 12,000 foot runway, just move it back

I go there 2 times a week at least I love it dearly


User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

How many gates will this bring CLT to?

User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6133 times:

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):
Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.

Wait.... ANOTHER parallel runway?? Me confoosed....



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

Love the AC bird in old colors...

Upon completion of Concourse E and the Concourse A annex, the total number of gates at CLT will be 111. If you look around CLT you'll notice that they added signs saying "E1-E50", in preparation for the addition.


Anyway, the Concourse A annex is the part the interests me the most. They are going to build 4 gates, for WN, DL, and UA. Do they really need more gates? They have unveiled so little information about this part of the project..its kind of weird. How will this be connected to the main terminal? Will it be called Concourse A once the entire expansion project is done? I always thought it would be called Concourse F.

Concourse E needs to be disconnected from the Main Terminal building IMHO..

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):
Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.

They've said they would move the Overlook.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):
Upon completion of Concourse E and the Concourse A annex, the total number of gates at CLT will be 111. If you look around CLT you'll notice that they added signs saying "E1-E50", in preparation for the addition.

I thought the 50 in "E50" was the number of miles from that gate to the end of Concourse B...   


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 9):
I thought the 50 in "E50" was the number of miles from that gate to the end of Concourse B...

This really needs to be addressed. I cannot imagine going from B23 to E50. Whether it be some kind of transit system, who knows..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5904 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):

They really do need the gates, delta is jammed with the 4 they have, they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes, UA aswell AA to they really need the gates


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):
Concourse E needs to be disconnected from the Main Terminal building IMHO..

An underground people mover from where it currently intersects with D might allow for an alternate traffic flow to get around the bottle neck.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
An underground people mover from where it currently intersects with D might allow for an alternate traffic flow to get around the bottle neck.

I don't think a people mover is needed from D-E..the walking distance isn't that far. What I could see is a people mover connected all of the concourses together...something similar to SEA.

Maybe a people mover from B-Atrium-C-D-E, something like that.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
They really do need the gates, delta is jammed with the 4 they have, they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes, UA aswell AA to they really need the gates

Besides you actually wanting the expansion to happen..do they really need the gates?

Think about it, DL currently has 33 flights into CLT. Divide that by 4. Thats 8.25 flights per gate. Easily do-able.

UA has 23 daily flights into CLT and uses 4 gates. Divide that by 4. Thats 5.75 flights per gate. Again, easily do-able.

Unless DL and UA want to undergo an aggressive expansion at CLT, (highly unlikely) I don't know why this expansion is needed. Unless, CLT wants to move B6 over to A to make room for US in D. Or, CLT wants to see new airlines expand at CLT (NK, VX, AS....) and wants to make room for them in A.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1381 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes

And thats another problem. AirTran has 1 gate and SWA said they want 2 minimum. That means DL can't use FL's which makes a bigger problem.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):

AA has 2 gates, they need atleast 3 or 4, after spotting at the airport there is a huge arrival of ERJ145 and 1 CRJ 700 and there is still a ERJ145 and MD82 there trying to launch

I think CLT wants for airlines, I think AS will be the newest airline, I can maybe see NK aswell


User currently offlinebrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

have to love that cost per emplanement statistic

User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5408 times:

I think that super low cost of enplanements is evident all over the facility. From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited. Also, it depends on how their CPE is calculated (what cost centers are included). Have to be comparing apples to apples between airports and how they calculate their CPE. Anyway, hats off to CLT for having such a cheap airport to operate from. Still don't know how it's possible to have a virtually non-existent cost per enplanement. One thing is for sure, as all of these projects come online, there is no way the CPE won't increase quite a bit unless passengers continue to climb at a steep rate. CLT isn't that large of an O&D market, so it will have to come through mainly connect traffic on US. CLT w/US is trying to become the anti-ATL, and has had moderate success thus far.

AAflyguy

[Edited 2012-09-25 07:56:58]

User currently offlineboberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):
From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited.

CLT just finished an improvement project which installed some new signage, carpets, shops have gotten renovated, and the US Airways gate areas got a touch up, I think the major push was to get most of the work done before the DNC, but work is going to continue in E where they are taking out the in-between gate center podiums and installing more seating.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

What timeframe are we looking at for the overlook to go bye-bye?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 18):
Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited.
CLT just finished an improvement project which installed some new signage, carpets, shops have gotten renovated, and the US Airways gate areas got a touch up, I think the major push was to get most of the work done before the DNC, but work is going to continue in E where they are taking out the in-between gate center podiums and installing more seating.

The baggage claim areas were recently renovated which look really nice IMHO. New carpeting has been installed in all areas. Also, CLT seems to be putting more "compass" signs everywhere. I've seen them in the parking garages, and the entrance to D and E, but now they are all over the terminal, including at the entrances to the security check points, and concourse A, B,C. They aren't much, but I believe they look fantastic.

CLT recently opened the Terminal East expansion, which will serve as a model for the rest of the terminal.


Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 15):
AA has 2 gates, they need atleast 3 or 4, after spotting at the airport there is a huge arrival of ERJ145 and 1 CRJ 700 and there is still a ERJ145 and MD82 there trying to launch

I think CLT wants for airlines, I think AS will be the newest airline, I can maybe see NK aswell

You can't tell how many daily flights there are just from spotting! AA currently has 21 flights into CLT, out of two gates. Thats 10.5 flights per gate. Nothing to challenging. Whats more, AA will not receive any new gates at the satellite terminal.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
What timeframe are we looking at for the overlook to go bye-bye?

Probably somewhere in the late 2013 timeframe. CLT officials insist they will move it..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinebrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):

I think that super low cost of enplanements is evident all over the facility. From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited. Also, it depends on how their CPE is calculated (what cost centers are included). Have to be comparing apples to apples between airports and how they calculate their CPE. Anyway, hats off to CLT for having such a cheap airport to operate from. Still don't know how it's possible to have a virtually non-existent cost per enplanement. One thing is for sure, as all of these projects come online, there is no way the CPE won't increase quite a bit unless passengers continue to climb at a steep rate. CLT isn't that large of an O&D market, so it will have to come through mainly connect traffic on US. CLT w/US is trying to become the anti-ATL, and has had moderate success thus far.

This is the United States. A lot of airports look old and tired. But, it's nice for it be done more cheaply. Anyways airport bonds are put forth so airline passengers arent stuck paying for the entire sum. It's a way of creating business. I don't think a passenger says, "I'm not flying through CLT because the carpet was patched up on B Concourse last time." When they see the cheap ticket with US Airways at CLT, they are probably going.

When you review the other airports and their cost per enplanement statistics...I mean...CLT is spartan and clean, nothing earth shattering. It serves the intended purpose. I think the facility is pretty much consistent. D is a little nicer because of the higher ceilings and windows, but the feel is consistent throughout. Many of these other airports have higher enplanement statistics, but where is the money going? For the price that is paid at many airports on that list, you aren't seeing anything aesthetically spectacular. Furthermore, many of these airports have one REALLY REALLY nice area and the rest is garbage.

In any case US AIRWAYS CEO has thanked CLT for managing the airport that way.

[Edited 2012-09-25 09:25:19]

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 22):

Your absolutely right. For the price CLT runs things, the facility looks pretty good. Sure, could it look better? Probably. But most connecting passengers don't give a crap about what the facility looks like as long as it is clean and easy to connect through. Could it be cleaner? Sure...But CLT must be doing fine if they were voted the second best airport in America by T+L.

Now about those bathroom attendants..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineAAflyguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Happy to hear about the recent renovations, and makes sense they would be rushed along in advance of the DNC coming to town. The terminal expansion area pictured above looks great! I simply connected (back in Mar '11) and was in Conc B, C, and E. My experience was that E looked the most modern, by far, of those three. But, sounds like B & C are playing catch-up and looking much better. I think another part was how crowded B & C were..so many people jammed into those areas. And, my point about CPE stands. There are various ways to compute CPE, so CLT may be using one which makes its costs appear to be so much lower than other airports. ATL, for instance, looks to be about $4.00, which is pretty amazing considering how vast that terminal & airfield complex is combined with the extensive renovation & expansion recently completed or underway. It's a smart move by CLT/US to position the airport in a way that offers an alternative to ATL. The airport and community it serves will continue to benefit from the growing hub operation there for decades to come.

25 GoBoeing : If AA and US really did merge, what do you all think would happen with CLT? Personally I think it would shrink a bit (not quite like a MEM or CVG thou
26 CompensateMe : Considering that ATL’s on pace to handle nearly 100M passengers this year, why is that figure surprising? If O’Hare was able to spread its cost a
27 JBirdAV8r : That's really only a small part of the problem. The big deal is when aircraft head to the North Ramp, where Concourse E lies, they have to squeeze pa
28 southwest737500 : It will gain flights, not a lot but
29 tp1040 : Looking at the planned runway configuration, is there room for a future 5th parallel runway? Also, thought they had planned to do away with 5/23.
30 USAirALB : E is the newest out all the concourses, and the only one still not at completion. Is there room? Not currently, but I suppose one could be built west
31 CV880 : The overlay that I saw on a similar site showed a 5th parallel to the east of 36R, which would probably require fill on the south end and some oblite
32 USAirALB : I mean't to the east..if you put a parallel to the west it would be on the terminal! Do you have the site?
33 Post contains links CV880 : http://charlottechamber.com/clientup...tations/Jerry_Orr_%20March2012.pdf Now slightly altered-- the "green" runway will be extended to 12,000' (aroun
34 HPRamper : I don't really see how CLT could gain any more. CLT is basically maxed out for Southeast markets, and it will (would) lose connecting traffic to DFW
35 Post contains links r2rho : Exactly. This was much discussed in the previous thread: CLT To Build New Runway (by USAirALB Aug 27 2012 in Civil Aviation) They are basically takin
36 Cubsrule : If they close 5/23, it seems like expanding D in that direction (basically parallel to C) would make sense and solve the problem. Of course, CLT will
37 airliner371 : I know they plan on (over many years) fixing the airport to an ATL or DEN like format so not sure they would do this.
38 tp1040 : Thanks for the update. I was not aware of the intermodel complex. Hope that works out for CLT.
39 flyguy89 : What traffic would that be?
40 Cubsrule : AA sells tickets on routes like RDU-MSY and CHS-IND. Some southeast-west coast traffic would probably also shift, though CLT versus ORD/DFW is more o
41 flyguy89 : I seriously doubt those type of itineraries make up any significant amount of connecting traffic at ORD and DFW. CLT on the other hand has a lot more
42 Cubsrule : What evidence do you have to support this assertion?
43 Flaps : For me it isn't the appearance of the terminal that makes me avoid CLT. Its the serious overcrowding and the distances that must be traveled through t
44 JBirdAV8r : I'm not sure I agree with your point of view. It takes me about ten minutes to walk from the end of Concourse E to the end of A or B. That doesn't se
45 flyguy89 : The same evidence you probably had for your assertion. According to DOT stats, CLT has larger amounts of connecting traffic than both ORD and DFW, so
46 Cubsrule : Well, my assertion was that AA connects SOME traffic over ORD and DFW that would be better served over CLT, and DoT data bear that out because any am
47 flyguy89 : Right. And if you look at that same data for any airport west of the Appalachians, you'll see that US carries traffic on more itineraries better flow
48 PITrules : There is something odd (or unexplained) about the methodology being used for this expansion. The airport is planning new concourses for domestic and i
49 CV880 : Except that Jerry Orr is very conservative with the $$--He's gotta make sure that He's got enough $$ from the FAA, Bonds, & PFC's before He spend
50 southwest737500 : GRR,OKC,TUL,HNL,BGR,ISP,ZRH,MAN,
51 flyguy89 : All three of which are better served over DFW or ORD along with several other Midwest/Great Plains markets already flown from CLT. Was already tried
52 southwest737500 : Most of the answer have to deal with merger, I don't even think it will happen I hope not
53 southwest737500 : Also HNL could work because it used to be a 767 and it would work well with the A332
54 flyguy89 : Well yes, I thought you were saying those routes would be added if there was a merger. It could, but is it worth it for them to dedicate an A332 on t
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