ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2 Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2089 times:
Did a search on here (and google) and could not find an answer on this:
I understand Sunwing Travel is now the parent of the Vacation Express and does US to Mexico/Caribbean flying from CVG,ATL and BNA.
My 2 questions: how do they crew those flights with only two crew bases in YYZ and YUL. Are trips built like YYZ MBJ CVG CUN YYZ all in one day?? (from what I understand WG does not do overnight layovers) If that is the case, how so they keep it legal with Transport Canada SOR duty maximums ? Finally...why do you think that WG is the only airline taking advantage of the seventh freedom privileges (ability of US or Canadian carrier to fly international, stand alone segments from each respective country etc WG ATL-MBJ) outlined inthe open skies agreement. One would think that UA/AC would be all over this.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1688 times:
Quoting B727FA (Reply 1): I saw their crew walking through CVG the other day. I think they'd have to do some "trips" and not just turns.
Thanks for the casual observation. Maybe they do build parings now with RONs to support the US flying. A former coworker/ friend of mine interviewed with WG several months ago and was told all parings/trips/IDs were scheduled as turns to control costs.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 23244 posts, RR: 23 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1612 times:
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter): .why do you think that WG is the only airline taking advantage of the seventh freedom privileges (ability of US or Canadian carrier to fly international, stand alone segments from each respective country etc WG ATL-MBJ) outlined inthe open skies agreement. One would think that UA/AC would be all over this.
I believe the 7th freedom rights you refer to only apply to charter services, not scheduled flights which only permit 5th freedom rights. And, if memory correct, what you refer to as 7th freedom really isn't, since they have to be part of an operation that involves the airline's home country, either before or after the sector between the U.S. and the 3rd country. If it was 7th freedom they could base aircraft in the U.S. and fly stand-alone services without having to serve Canada on the preceding or following flights. As I read the bilateral, that's not permitted for charters, and as mentioned, for scheduled services only 5th freedom rights exist.
outoftheice From Canada, joined Mar 2011, 6 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1406 times:
In the summer Sunwing operates with crew bases in YYZ, YUL and YVR. This winter will see Sunwing operating crew bases in YYZ, YUL, YVR, YYC, YOW and YQB. The US flying this summer was scheduled using crews from both the YYZ and YUL bases. The pairings had the crews departing their home base and operating a sector down to Mexico or the Caribbean and then operating a sector north into the US. The crews would then over-night in the US before doing the reverse the next day to return to their home base.
In regards to the general way pairings are built at Sunwing there are actually quite a large number of multi-day pairings that involve lay-overs for the crews. In the winter season Sunwing operates out of 33 Canadian gate-ways to 48 destinations down south. These flights are all operated out of only 6 bases. As a result, the pattern used for the US flying repeats itself with crew leaving their base to fly south and then returning to Canada for a lay-over in one of the 27 Canadian cities that are not home to a crew base. With a large number of pairings in the winter, this pattern tends to repeat itself several times so that it will be 4 or 5 days before a crew finally returns to their base and finishes their pairing.
As for why more operators do not take advantage of these rights, I believe it is simply because the packaged holiday operators in the US usually just block seats on the US majors instead of operating charter flights and the major Canadian packaged holiday operators already have their own airlines associated with their operations.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1299 times:
Thank you for your responses. Perhaps the 'turn only' flying had something to do with the season (she interviewed in the spring IIRC) and the base. I appreciate the in depth insight to WG's operations Outoftheice. Viscount724 brings up interesting points about the 5th and 7th freedom rights in the bilateral. .
When I cited UA and AC taking advantage of 7th freedom rights (assuming they can), I was asking if there were city pairs where AC's or UA's costs and product would be more appropriate for connecting markets. For example, could the failed IAD-MAD expedition with EI worked if they had used AC (same alliance).
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9354 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1198 times:
BNA is seasonal and has already concluded....Word has it they will not be back next year. We flew BNA - CUN this summer. After missing the scheduled departure we were stuck at the airport for close to 14 hours before they finally cancelled the flight. Now working in aviation maintenance for close to 16 years things happen and planes break and cant always be fixed in minutes. I guess as a whole they did the best they could. We were given trip vouches that we just cashed in for or annual December Cancun trip. We booked airfare only through Vacation Express and got the same USAirways flight we always take for close to 50% off.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"