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Iberia Cuts LAX For Winter  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6256 times:

Suppose no surprise, but according to GDS, Iberia will suspend its LAX service effective January until March.

IB had been planning to operate 3x weekly during the winter. Last flight is January 4th.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1720 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6133 times:

Sounds like Alitalia.
They have same problems and make LAX summer only.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

Yes there are parallels between IB and AZ at LAX.

Both historically have served the market during various periods going back the 1980s.

IB returned this time to LAX in April 2011 under the guise of the oneworld (AA-BA-IB) JV, however I'm not sure this lived up the hype that was promised.

Yes IB loads like AZ in the summer are strong - but the clientele is mostly European tourist. Not premium business crowd, and these guys both see their traffic plunge in the winter. Obviously things were not looking so hot this winter and IB decided to pull LAX at this late stage.

I think this goes back to the larger issue that its hard to make the West Coast work from non prime European cities. The long stage lengths combined with passenger type and revenue mix make it a challenge. Also I think things like Southern California not having much social or business links to Spain does not help. While yes we have millions of Spanish speakers here like MIA or NYC, virtually none are looking to go to Madrid, but instead they all have their cultural and business ties to Latin America instead.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

It's really not all that surprising. A combination of factors makes this cancellation a no brainer:

-At high level, slow winter travel period.
-US-Spain traffic being primarily leisure-oriented...can't really see much O&D between SoCal and Spain??
-Not to mention, Spain is in terrible economic shape
-Long-haul ops on a high-CASM Airbus A340-300 is not really sustainable in this fuel price context.
-low-frequency at 3x a week not appealing to premium traffic.
-IBERIA is also in poor shape; IAG/Willie Walsh is really trying to clean up the messes and restructure the long-haul network.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

Does IB have orders for A340 replacments....more efficient twins, like A330, B777, B787? Is the cost of the A340's part of the problem with LAX profitability?


Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5318 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 4):

Does IB have orders for A340 replacments....more efficient twins, like A330, B777, B787? Is the cost of the A340's part of the problem with LAX profitability?

Not sure about the replacements, but they do have 8 Airbus A330-300HGWs on order. 1 delivered in 2012, 4 in 2013 and 3 in 2014.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

Well, let's hope it won't end up like IAD. Does anyone know if the A330s that are coming can make MAD-LAX?


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
It's really not all that surprising. A combination of factors makes this cancellation a no brainer:

-At high level, slow winter travel period.
-US-Spain traffic being primarily leisure-oriented...can't really see much O&D between SoCal and Spain??

Indeed, IB will redeploy the a/c from the MAD-LAX route to the MAD-SCL route. IB will increase frequency on the MAD-SCL route to 9x weekly.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Not sure about A330-300HGW.

MAD-LAX is about 5,845 miles without headwind effects.

Airbus says the HGW can do 5,950 miles.

Add in a higher density configuration which IB utilizes, enroute winds, and warm temps in Madrid, its likely going to be too far without payload restrictions.

Ideally something like the 787 is probably better suited, but at the end of the day the market is still going to be a seasonal and heavily leisure one which does not change help the revenue side of the equation.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

However, the market might not be that leisure because Iberia never uses high density 343 ( 24J + 265Y) on the LAX route. The standard 343 ( 36J + 218 Y) or 346 are flown there.


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

I have just checked Iberia's website and it seems that they have extended the period of inactivity: no flights between November and March.


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1720 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

Interesting to see how people like AZ and IB struggle at LAX compared to AF, BA, LH let say.

Seems the big difference is that not only do the successful have big home markets with good demand (including premium customers) to California, but they also have huge networks that make wide variety of beyond connections possible.

Otherhand AZ & IB are stuck flying mostly the summer tourist with minimal beyond connection to attract transit.

Also what cultural or business links does Los Angeles have with Spain ?? Maybe 300 years ago, but not today. Spain is not even in the top-25 of export trade partner for California, and even what it does trade is mostly low value things such as agricultural products and food stuff.


User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

BA, AF or LH are consolidated in LAX. Air Europa have problems flying to JFK or MIA and Iberia is doing pretty well there, with up to three daily flights. Same with ORD, they fly daily all year round and there are not significant cultural ties between Spain and Chicago, and leisure market is smaller. I think that if they were daily or 5/6 flights a week to LAX, they would have less problems, but now Iberia is short of airplanes and with financial problems and Spain itself isn't in good shape.


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

The problem isn't the plane, if IB operated new 787s the route would still be marginal, as the yields aren't very good.


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 11):
Interesting to see how people like AZ and IB struggle at LAX compared to AF, BA, LH let say.

Exactly, BA and LH are carrying a much higher concentration of premium, higher-yielding traffic to the U.K. and Germany from LA than IB and AZ to Spain and Italy. Indeed, you also have a much more vast network ex LHR, FRA, MUC etc. provided by these carriers rather than from MAD and FCO which are much smaller and limited by less-than-daily frequencies.

Quoting MFC (Reply 12):
Air Europa have problems flying to JFK or MIA and Iberia is doing pretty well there, with up to three daily flights. Same with ORD, they fly daily all year round and there are not significant cultural ties between Spain and Chicago, and leisure market is smaller.

JFK, MIA and ORD benefit from the joint-revenue sharing agreements between BA-IB-AA. AirEuropa doesn't hold that same advantage. The three airports are also well-primed, thanks to geographic location, to capture connecting traffic from all points across the US. Same goes for DFW. LAX, on the other hand, cannot draw from too many surrounding areas.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26137 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

You can't compare LAX with success IB might have at ORD or MIA.

ORD is a much larger and central Oneworld hub. AA has over 400 daily departures at ORD, and the hub can connect you to virtually all of North America. MIA on the other hand is the gateway to Latin America, and has its own strong ethnic and business links to Spain.

LAX on the other hand is a relatively remote and far destination in the corner of the US with minimal beyond connection opportunities.
Yes you can always find summer tourist on either side of the Atlantic, however when the season ends, the lack of strong business ties, and lack of network connectivity makes things unsustainable similar to how Alitalia suffers here.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 14):
JFK, MIA and ORD benefit from the joint-revenue sharing agreements between BA-IB-AA.

LAX also benefits from that agreement. Iberia has been flying with success to JFK, MIA and ORD well before joint-revenue agreement was signed.

Anyway, I agree with you all, JFK, MIA and ORD are different than LAX.



So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
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