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Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's  
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 16155 times:

Since the merger we've all noticed the ongoing crossfleeting at all the hubs. I think it's fascinating to note that some of the 757s (mainly PMUA) are on daily super short haul routings such as:

EWR-BOS
IAH-AUS
IAH-MSY
CLE-ORD

These routes are quite possibly the shortest for the 757 with the duration of all these examples being only 30-45 minutes long. IAH-AUS is only 30 minutes on the dot. Are there any other examples of this throughout the UA system? Do these routes print money for them with using the 757 and added capacity?


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 16140 times:

PMUA used to run the 757 on many of these similar routes, like ORD-MSP. Heck I remember when PMUA used to run 757's from ORD-MKE!

It is all about capacity and frequency.
I consider IAH-AUS and MSP-ORD to very similar. Very large business travelers routes that are O&D or connection heavy.

Remember that PMUA had a number of 757's (one of the largest 757 fleets for all domestic service plus a few Hawaii and carribean destinations), so they would show up on a ton of routes.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25372 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 16134 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
CLE-ORD

At one time DC-10s were common on CLE-ORD. In November 1979, 4 of UA's 7 daily CLE-ORD flights were DC-10s (plus 3 732s). NW also had one daily DC-10 (plus 4 727s).


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 16007 times:

UA still regularly operates 757 between DTW & ORD on its sole remaining mainline flight. Currently the 320 is scheduled, but the 757 will return in about two weeks; the flight transitions into the 739 during November.

ORD/DTW was one of the last routes to see DC-10 service; 763 were flown through 2001. Now the route is primarily regional jet.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15807 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
IAH-AUS
IAH-MSY

Also IAH-SAT. Prior to the merger and CO 757s going transatlantic IAH saw CO 757s to MSY/SAT/AUS and MFE. Prior to that the AB3s were on IAH-MSY. IAH-MSY intermittantly has always been 757/753 domain, also of note IAH-MSY was always a common route to get subbed with 762/764 birds - much like IAH-DEN/MCO. Also since the merger there are alot of Houston travellers using AUS and backtracking back to IAH, as there can be some heavy price gouging going on down here...I've thought about making that 1:45-2:00 drive myself to save $300+.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15794 times:

SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind. Probably takes longer to get the passengers on / off the plane (assuming it's full) than the flight itself!

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9652 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15781 times:

Almost any narrowbody route on PMUA could have been a 757. They did not favor the A320 or A319 over the 757 for any shorter domestic routes. Every airplane could do every route over the lower 48 for the most part. The 737s used to be favored for short routes, but those mostly got replaced by Embraer 170s and CRJ-700s. The routes that were left mainline could see any narrowbody type. PMUA was just under 100 757s, so that is a lot of airplanes and for fleet utilization, sometimes it made sense to have them on very short routes.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15739 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 4):

Oh true you are correct. 1x 757 is flying IAH-SAT this saturday.

Interesting to note that IAH-SAT/AUS/MSY get 757s but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15696 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 7):
but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)

Very interesting to note...but then again you have NK/WN/AA/UA all on IAH/HOU - DFW/DAL. WN has flights at peak times every 30 minutes.

I went to college in New Orleans and always loved flying home to Houston on CO 752s and 753s.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19734 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 15582 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 1):

PMUA used to run the 757 on many of these similar routes, like ORD-MSP. Heck I remember when PMUA used to run 757's from ORD-MKE!

Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.

UA uses 757's on LAX-SFO, which is only about 50 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25372 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15520 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW. In November 1979 they had 2 daily 747s and 2 daily DC-10s on the route. Both of the 747s continued to JFK.

[Edited 2012-09-27 15:27:32]

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3077 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15396 times:

NW's OGG-KOA segment on the 753 comes to mind as a short haul. I was going to say SFO-MRY but someone already beat me to it.

Bottom line is the 757 is a very versatile airplane that can do almost anything.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15300 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Are there any other examples of this throughout the UA system? Do these routes print money for them with using the 757 and added capacity?

What added capacity? The ex-UA 757-200s has only 9 more seats than a 737-900, about a 5% difference. In any case, total seat capacity year-over-year on the IAH routes cited is down in all markets for September:

AUS: -12%

MSY: -3%

SAT: -4%


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20647 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 15245 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind.

Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

(While looking this up, I noticed the cheapest seat next week coming in at $731 one-way.  Wow! I remember flying this route on a 732 in the early 70s. The First Class fare was something ridiculously cheap like $11 or something. My sister and I were the only pax up front, LOL.)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15182 times:

PMCO flew 757s (752/753s) between IAH/ AUS/SAT/MSY and even 764 to MSY/MCO at times. I flew on all of them on those routes in the past.

Here are some vids.

SAT CO 757-300 Landing in San Antonio
http://youtu.be/A3TKiQttRg4

SAT CO 757-200 Take-off San Antonio BusinessFirst Cabin
http://youtu.be/9PuxCE5AkQQ

MSY CO 757-300 Landing New Orleans
http://youtu.be/xLWkfIJD1DA

Another amazing thing I notice, is if the weather was good Continental Flight Attendants did Beverage service between IAH and AUS. I had full beverage service with alcohol on a 737-900 flight between IAH/AUS in coach. They really rushed! Coach cabin clapped at the end. I doubt the New UA would do it as I notice we don't get beverage service on any Skywest flight from DAL to IAH in coach and the New UA always says if time permitting on the website, but beverage service was standard on old CO.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 7):
Interesting to note that IAH-SAT/AUS/MSY get 757s but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)

Remember UA has to split Dallas traffic between DFW/DAL. Today there were 16 flights between the 2 airports today. (frequency over plane size) Also in the past for a few years DAL-IAH was the number one route in terms of frequency. CO use to offer 16 flights a day between DAL and IAH alone. (When they had the ERJ-135s 10 ER4/6 ER3). There was a flight every 30 mins for the morning and evening rush at DAL.
Together DAL/DFW was 26 to 28 flights a day from IAH and was number one in frequency in the system for years.



Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15167 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):

UA uses 757's on LAX-SFO, which is only about 50 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down.

757s have been on LAX-SFO for many years. In fact, EWR-BOS, IAH-AUS, and IAH-MSY are all shorter than LAX-SFO.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
I was going to say SFO-MRY but someone already beat me to it.

When does the 757 operate SFO-MRY? I'm only seeing 120s in the schedule.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3077 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15166 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind.

Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

UA hasn't done this for several years now. They no longer fly mainline into MRY. Boeing even used SFO-MRY as an example of the 757's versatility. You know, it does the longer North Atlantic routes, and then this 80 mile route equally well.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15151 times:

Still see UA 757's on ORD GRR sometimes too

-m

  


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20647 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15131 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
UA hasn't done this for several years now.

That's what I thought. It seemed from the OP that this thread was for current 752 short routes in the schedule, not historic routes.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15121 times:

Also back in the past DL use to slip in a 757 on the evening or first flight out on IAH-DFW.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15035 times:

Doesn't UA have a short haul 757 flight to ELI (Eli. Nevada?)


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 12 months 15 hours ago) and read 15029 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
That's what I thought. It seemed from the OP that this thread was for current 752 short routes in the schedule, not historic routes.

Oops! But I could have sworn I saw a 752 in the schedule for that route within the past 12 months.


User currently onlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 14886 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW.

Way back in the day NW operated 747's MSP - ORD.


User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 14622 times:

Many airlines used the 757 on very short routes. I flew one BHM-ATL (DL).


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 14555 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 20):
Doesn't UA have a short haul 757 flight to ELI (Eli. Nevada?)

Ely, NV can barely sustain Great Lakes BE1 service to LAS. A single 757 flight would provide seats for about 75% of ELY's yearly enplanements.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14809 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 24):

No but UA does fly 757s on DEN-JAC which is another "super" short flight.

Also LAX-LAS gets a 757 too, on occasion.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14626 times:

Wish those 757s would be my ride home from DFW to IAH. Doesn't UA fly 75's on SNA-SFO?


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14565 times:

duplicate post

duplicate post

[Edited 2012-09-27 20:50:40]

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14624 times:

EWR-BOS clocks in at 199 miles. Most of the scheduled time is probably waiting to take off in EWR traffic jams  

User currently offlinewidget1580 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 29, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14308 times:

Let's not forget ORD-DSM. I believe it was a daily visitor there for a while, IIRC.


KLM | Journeys of Inspiration
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (1 year 12 months 10 hours ago) and read 14053 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Man if they use the 757 on such short routes I should be able to look at it in GFK pretty soon  (kidding of course).
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19734 posts, RR: 59
Reply 31, posted (1 year 12 months 10 hours ago) and read 13898 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 15):
757s have been on LAX-SFO for many years. In fact, EWR-BOS, IAH-AUS, and IAH-MSY are all shorter than LAX-SFO.

I know they're shorter, but LAX-SFO is about 12% of the 757's max range. It's always struck me as an awful lot of airplane to put on that route. But then again, they have the 757's and they have to use them somewhere.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW. In November 1979 they had 2 daily 747s and 2 daily DC-10s on the route. Both of the 747s continued to JFK.

Yes, but that was in the immediate post-deregulation era when airlines still had enormous planes left over from the frequency restrictions, so, like their 757's, they had to use them somewhere.

In 2004, I flew DTW-MSP on a 753. On the way there, it was empty. I sat in the very front of Y and listened to the engines roar. Lovely. On the way back it was full and I sat in the back. Not lovely. It took 35 minutes to deplane after they'd opened the door. By the time it was over, I was ready to chew nails...


User currently onlineSJCMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 11463 times:

I know this is historic, but I remember flying IND-ORD a few times on a UA 757 back around 2000. The shortest 757 flight I've had semi-lately was JAX-ATL on DL.

User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 5
Reply 33, posted (1 year 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 11203 times:

What about the dozens of widebodies between MIA and FLL in the 70's...25 miles...

User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 28):
EWR-BOS clocks in at 199 miles. Most of the scheduled time is probably waiting to take off in EWR traffic jams  

BOS is no cake walk!!!

This whole thread is kindda funny. We are questioning using a 757 on these short routes. In Japan they use 747's on similar length routes.

So everything is in perspective.

Shortest 747 Route? (by LAX Dec 24 2000 in Civil Aviation)

DatamanA340 From South Korea, joined Dec 2000, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted Thu Dec 28 2000 11:15:37 your local time (11 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

JAL : Narita-Nagoya flt.53/54 about 170 miles.
Haneda-Kanazawa, 221 miles.
KAL : Seoul-Cheju about 270 miles.

Well, some more?


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 10938 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind. Probably takes longer to get the passengers on / off the plane (assuming it's full) than the flight itself!
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

Back in the day, as they say. Many many years ago when they still flew mainline to MRY. It's all of 64 miles or so.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9407 posts, RR: 29
Reply 36, posted (1 year 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 10707 times:

we recently wrote about L10 and AB3 (EA) on YYZ-BUF. I have been, same airline, on a widebody FLL-MIA (not local but coming from somewhere up north). Or MIA-MCO in a D10 National Sunbird.

Or a WA 720 SFO-RNO , Plenty of more examples. Those few short haul flights by larger jets today are nothing to what went on in the 70s and 80s.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (1 year 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 10455 times:

PMCO used the 757-300 IAH-AUS. I have flown SFO-SNA on PMUA 752.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 10239 times:

One short DL 757 flight that I can think of is SLC-BOI in the summer.


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 10106 times:

Quoting United_fan (Reply 37):
PMCO used the 757-300 IAH-AUS.

A few years ago, NW used the 757-300 MSP-MKE pretty regularly. I always figured by the time the main gear was off the ground in MSP, the nose gear was touching down in MKE  



Good goes around!
User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (1 year 12 months ago) and read 10024 times:

Maybe slightly OT but I'm booked on an AA 752 in April next year from MCO to MIA. Book time is an hour but no doubt will be much less.


A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 12 months ago) and read 9696 times:

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 40):
Maybe slightly OT but I'm booked on an AA 752 in April next year from MCO to MIA. Book time is an hour but no doubt will be much less.

That's a quick one   I flew MCO-MIA on AA once on an A300.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

Quoting SJCMSP (Reply 32):
I know this is historic, but I remember flying IND-ORD a few times on a UA 757 back around 2000. The shortest 757 flight I've had semi-lately was JAX-ATL on DL.

Yes. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, UA routinely flew 757-200s and 767-300ERs on ORD-IND. 757s also flew IND-DEN as well.

For their part, NW often flew 757s on IND-DTW and IND-MSP. For many years, the first flight of the morning on IND-MSP was a 753!



Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently onlineSJCMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9075 times:

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 42):

Come to think of it, I recall flying TW 757s IND-STL a couple of times as well during that same time period.

[Edited 2012-09-28 08:45:01]

User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2391 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8851 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.

Even better. Those planes from both MSP and DTW to MKE. About 50 minutes to MSP and about 45 to DTW. The 752/3 only in the past year have become less frequent into MKE. They were the majority of flights to MSP in the PMNW days.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 45, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8542 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
BOS is no cake walk!!!

EWR-BOS has the business traffic to fill up on the 757 and also likely lots of connections via the EWR hub. It's interesting how sometimes the 757 will make an appearance on EWR-BOS during non peak hours such as 10pm on a Saturday night. Amazingly by checking the seat maps the loads aren't that terrible off peak either.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 851 posts, RR: 3
Reply 46, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8304 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
BOS is no cake walk!!!

EWR-BOS has the business traffic to fill up on the 757 and also likely lots of connections via the EWR hub. It's interesting how sometimes the 757 will make an appearance on EWR-BOS during non peak hours such as 10pm on a Saturday night. Amazingly by checking the seat maps the loads aren't that terrible off peak either.

Am I not mistaking that EA flew the A300 on the BOS-LGA shuttle?

Also HP used to fly the 757s PHX-LAS, and LAS-LAX as well.

JD CRP



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlinebrucek From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8150 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
This whole thread is kindda funny. We are questioning using a 757 on these short routes. In Japan they use 747's on similar length routes.

Interesting thread. It's amazing how often the venerable B75 comes up in discussion, has to be almost the most talked about aircraft...

I assume that in comparing the efficiency of a/c that the flight time is relevant, as no doubt the climb/take off performance comparisons are different to cruise and descent, and varying flight times will have different proportionate mixes of those phases of flight. For typical flights as discussed in this thread which are all short, and the 9 seat difference between a B752 and 739, which of those two aircraft are beter from an efficiency perspective over these short routes, and how much are we talkijg about on avaregae (assuming full flights and the current cost of fuel)?

Thanks, Bruce.


User currently offlinelrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

s-UA 757's are domestic configured. These are the airplanes on all these new routes (flight #'s between 201-999)

s-CO flights are those with flight numbers 1-201, and 1000-1999. Any domestic 757 flights on s-CO equipment with these flight #'s are just to keep the aircraft busy between Europe flights, or repositioning them for MX.



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 48):

As of recently the ex-co 757s have been on more domestic routes:

EWR-ORD
IAD-LAX
ORD-LAX
EWR-DEN
EWR-LAX
EWR-SFO
EWR-MIA
EWR-TPA
EWR-MCO

I think the shortest ex-CO route is EWR-ORD



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinelrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7798 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 48):
s-UA 757's are domestic configured. These are the airplanes on all these new routes (flight #'s between 201-999)

s-CO flights are those with flight numbers 1-201, and 1000-1999. Any domestic 757 flights on s-CO equipment with these flight #'s are just to keep the aircraft busy between Europe flights, or repositioning them for MX.

IMHO... the 'bought-and-paid-for' s-UA 757 domestic equipment is the best thing CO got out of the merger.

You would be surprised how many high-yielding pax, who know nothing about planes, think (perhaps correctly) that a 757 is a better pick than a competitor's 737 or A320. Any extra seats sell themselves  

For the short flights, the ~~12% extra fuel burn of the 757 vs. 737-900 is fairly irrelevant even at current fuel prices. Best to use newest/most efficient aircraft (737-900) on schedules with long flights, so most of the airplanes time isn't spent on the ground, it's in the air realizing the fuel savings.



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
User currently offlinelrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 49):

I think the shortest ex-CO route is EWR-ORD

Wow is this new?! The last time I flew this 2 months ago, there was definitely scant ex-CO metal, let alone a CO 752.

What international flying has been cut or shifted to larger aircraft to free up those birds for domestic? I know CO is having a heyday with the UA 763's, but I didn't know of them replacing CO 752 flights, just 762/764/777 flights.



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 52, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 50):
IMHO... the 'bought-and-paid-for' s-UA 757 domestic equipment is the best thing CO got out of the merger.

They are severely underrated. the s-UA 757s have excellent F class seats with 24 of them in the front cabin (ideal for upgrades.) In Economy (in my experience) as long as the flight isn't fully loaded it's actually very easy to get a whole row to yourself. This year alone I had a whole rows on EWR-MIA and LAX-EWR. You don't need F when you have a whole row to yourself and channel 9.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 53, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7604 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 48):
s-CO flights are those with flight numbers 1-201, and 1000-1999.

Minor point, but it's 1-199. UA200/201 operates with a s-UA 777 GUM-HNL-ORD and v.v..


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 54, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7607 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 51):

Wow is this new?! The last time I flew this 2 months ago, there was definitely scant ex-CO metal, let alone a CO 752.

Yeah since the early summer, IIRC. I think they've been flying it since May or June.

Widebody metal is now found on:
IAH-ORD --763
EWR-SFO -- 763
EWR-LAX (most days a 764 is on the route.)
IAH-DEN (sometimes a 763)
IAH-SFO -- 763

And the usual suspects:
IAD-ORD
IAD-LAX
ORD-DEN
DEN-LAX
DEN-SFO
SFO-ORD

And the loss of some:
IAD-SFO
IAD-DEN
ORD-LAX

[Edited 2012-09-28 11:05:22]


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3774 posts, RR: 9
Reply 55, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7565 times:

UA used 757s on CMH-ORD in the early 2000s and still does today on occasion.

And, seeing references to DL, lest we forget the 110 mile CMH-CVG 757 flights.



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 56, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7534 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 54):
Widebody metal is now found on:

Also EWR-IAH...I just booked it this morning.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3280 posts, RR: 5
Reply 57, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5884 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
This whole thread is kindda funny. We are questioning using a 757 on these short routes. In Japan they use 747's on similar length routes.

So everything is in perspective.

Shortest 747 Route? (by LAX Dec 24 2000 in Civil Aviation)

DatamanA340 From South Korea, joined Dec 2000, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted Thu Dec 28 2000 11:15:37 your local time (11 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

JAL : Narita-Nagoya flt.53/54 about 170 miles.
Haneda-Kanazawa, 221 miles.
KAL : Seoul-Cheju about 270 miles.

Well, some more?

PDX-SEA at 129 miles has seen scheduled 747's, DC-10's, DC-8's, 737's, 727's on UA alone. Not to mention the other 29 carriers that have flown the route in the past 40 years with L-1011's, 767's, 757's, DC-9's and various commuter aircraft from Q400's, F28's, F27's, B99's, SWM's, Q200's, EMB-120's, J31's, HS7's, the list goes on......



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 58, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

Quoting lrgt (Reply 51):
What international flying has been cut or shifted to larger aircraft to free up those birds for domestic?

Unless I'm mistaken, none. They seem to be using the fleet more efficiently than CO did, getting in a turn between TATL flights.

I think they may have cut 1 or 2 frames from IAD for the summer (which had done CDG and AMS) but that's it



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1676 posts, RR: 3
Reply 59, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5214 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 15):
757s have been on LAX-SFO for many years.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
I know they're shorter, but LAX-SFO is about 12% of the 757's max range. It's always struck me as an awful lot of airplane to put on that route. But then again, they have the 757's and they have to use them somewhere.

Mx Positioning and utilization flying for the Hawaii-ETOPS fleet is probably the driver here.


User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

I don't know why this is even a topic. A 757? ..Really? .. Years ago I flew 747's and DC-10's on short legs like that. I remember when I flew World Airways years ago they had a DC-10 that went from EWR to BWI then on to OAK or LAX.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 60):

Because super short routes are not typically operated by 757s. They are RJ dominated.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25372 posts, RR: 22
Reply 62, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 60):
I don't know why this is even a topic. A 757? ..Really? .. Years ago I flew 747's and DC-10's on short legs like that. I remember when I flew World Airways years ago they had a DC-10 that went from EWR to BWI then on to OAK or LAX.

At one time in the 1980s they also had a DC-10 that operated from somewhere on the west coast to IAD and then continued the 39 nm to BWI.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 63, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

Not real short,but UA ran 757's on Sunday BUF-ORD last Summer ('11). UA used to run the DC-10 DEN-COS. and ORD-CLE.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 64, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 61):
Because super short routes are not typically operated by 757s. They are RJ dominated.

False. Comparing UA's October 2012 schedules with October 2011 (source OAG data):

Ops on 757 as share of total UA operations (including regional affiliates) at that stage length (2011/2012)
0-250 mi: 0.3%/0.3%
251-500 mi: 2.8%/1.0%
501-750 mi: 2.6%/2.1%
751-1000 mi: 8.2%/6.8%
1001 mi and greater: 13.2%/14.9%

500 mi or less 3.1%/1.3%

(Note shares ARE NOT supposed to add to 100.0%)

Share of all UA 757 operations (2011/2012)
0-250 mi: 1.0%/1.0%
251-500 mi: 11.4%/4.3%
501-750 mi: 7.4%/6.5%
751-1000 mi: 20.0%/16.4%
1001 mi and greater: 60.2%/66.4%

500 mi or less: 12.4%/5.3%

(Shares ARE supposed to add to 100.0%)

Average stage length (miles) (2011/2012): 1,675/1,839

The data show that:

-757s are NOT flying a higher proportion of short-haul routes for UA

-757s are flying on average LONGER segments for UA, reflected in:
-The share of 500 mi or less segments dropping from 12.4% to 5.3%
-The average stage length INCREASING by 9.8%

What Tommy is seeing is new routes being flown by 757s out of HIS home airport, most likely distorted by the fact that the last couple of flights he took from EWR were indeed on 757s. But no need to let facts get in the way of sweeping generalizations and baseless assertions.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 52):
This year alone I had a whole rows on EWR-MIA and LAX-EWR.

Sounds like the right aircraft for the job if you had a whole row to yourself on 2 flights.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 65, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 64):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 52):
This year alone I had a whole rows on EWR-MIA and LAX-EWR.

Sounds like the right aircraft for the job if you had a whole row to yourself on 2 flights.

I wish I did. When i flew that route in April not a spare seat was to be had. At least ch 9 was on.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 66, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 64):
What Tommy is seeing is new routes being flown by 757s out of HIS home airport, most likely distorted by the fact that the last couple of flights he took from EWR were indeed on 757s. But no need to let facts get in the way of sweeping generalizations and baseless assertions.

What sweeping generalizations? I think you have a reading comprehension problem. The point of this thread is to call out what other short routes are operated by 757s. You are very late to the party.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 64):
-757s are NOT flying a higher proportion of short-haul routes for UA

That was never my point.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 64):

Sounds like the right aircraft for the job if you had a whole row to yourself on 2 flights.

What do you suggest? Get cozy in the back of a E145?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 67, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 66):
What sweeping generalizations? I think you have a reading comprehension problem. The point of this thread is to call out what other short routes are operated by 757s. You are very late to the party.

The whole premise of this post is that crossfleeting has resulted in UA 757s flying "super short-haul routes." Implicit in that assertion is that they weren't before. They may be flying routes that they weren't before, but "super short-haul" flying by 757s has actually decreased. (Although who knows what constitutes "super" short-haul? If EWR-BOS is "super short-haul," is MIA-FLL "super super short-haul"?)

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 66):
What do you suggest? Get cozy in the back of a E145?

OK, so the point of this post is you like 757s more than E145s?


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 68, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 67):

Actually the shortest routes on UA 757 before the merger (in very recent years) had to be routes like LAX-SFO, IAD-BOS, ORD-BUF etc. The point of this thread is to show that NEW shorter routes have popped up. Like it or not, they exist.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 67):

OK, so the point of this post is you like 757s more than E145s?

No the point of my post was to point out that you make absolutely no sense.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 69, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 68):

Actually the shortest routes on UA 757 before the merger (in very recent years) had to be routes like LAX-SFO, IAD-BOS, ORD-BUF etc.

Your point being?

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 68):
The point of this thread is to show that NEW shorter routes have popped up. Like it or not, they exist.

While others have disappeared. Liking has nothing to do with it.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 68):
No the point of my post was to point out that you make absolutely no sense.
Quoting stratosphere (Reply 60):
I don't know why this is even a topic.

I'm not the only one questioning the point of your post.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 61):
Because super short routes are not typically operated by 757s. They are RJ dominated.

"Super short routes" between major city pairs have had, and will continue to have, large-capacity jets. The practice isn't new and won't change anytime soon.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 71, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
At one time DC-10s were common on CLE-ORD. In November 1979, 4 of UA's 7 daily CLE-ORD flights were DC-10s (plus 3 732s). NW also had one daily DC-10 (plus 4 727s).

When UA operated a 747-122 from ORD to HNL in the mid 70's, the flight originated in CLE.

NW and UA and AA all operated DC-10's, ORD-DTW, which is about 85 miles shorter than ORD-CLE. I flew the route on a NW DC-10-40 on Friday, May 25, 1979, when deregulation had already started. We took off about 2 hours after the AA 191 disaster.

[Edited 2012-10-04 18:31:23]

[Edited 2012-10-04 18:34:36]

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 72, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 69):

I'm not the only one questioning the point of your post.

I beg the differ. I feel like many have chimed in and are having a lot of fun, unlike yourself.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 70):
"Super short routes" between major city pairs have had, and will continue to have, large-capacity jets. The practice isn't new and won't change anytime soon.

IAH-AUS, EWR-BOS, IAH-MSY, IAH-SAT are new though.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 72):
IAH-AUS, EWR-BOS, IAH-MSY, IAH-SAT are new though.

Pairings such as IAH-MSY have seen 739 & 753 service regularly for years (not to mention up to 15 daily flights, mostly with 733 & M80, through the early 2000s). None of these routes were primarily regional jet, and the transition to 757 seems natural, no?

Quoting milesrich (Reply 71):
NW and UA and AA all operated DC-10's, ORD-DTW, which is about 85 miles shorter than ORD-CLE. I flew the route on a NW DC-10-40 on Friday, May 25, 1979, when deregulation had already started. We took off about 2 hours after the AA 191 disaster.

UA scheduled DC-10 onto ORD/DTW through 2000, and B763 through 2001. Occasionally 763 are still subbed into DTW... there was a stretch not long ago in which a mixture of 2- and 3-cabin 763 subbed for the 757 quite regularly for a few weeks.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 74, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 72):
IAH-AUS, EWR-BOS, IAH-MSY, IAH-SAT are new though.

Nope not new.

I honestly don't understand the hostility on this thread about its purpose. If it doesn't interest you then don't participate. I can appreciate the OP's comments.

What's happening is essentially in this rightsizing of IAH - in most cases a freq is lost and a flight is upgauged. IAH-MIA has a 752 on it now...the last time this route had anything of any substantial size was back in AB3 days.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 75, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 74):
Nope not new.

Yes they are new routes for a PMUA 757.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 75):
Yes they are new routes for a PMUA 757.

Gotcha - I misunderstood.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 77, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 20):
Doesn't UA have a short haul 757 flight to ELI (Eli. Nevada?)

Ely (ELY) and Elko (EKO) were the last two UA cities to not have jet service. As has been posted numerous times in this forum, UA kept three DC-6B's to service these two points from November of 1968 until February 28, 1970 when UA retired the three Six's and entered into a contract with Frontier Airlines to operate a Convair 580 on the route which operated SLC-ELY-EKO-RNO-SFO. (During the time of UA DC-6B service, the flight was also scheduled during some periods to stop in OAK between SFO and RNO, but FL never operated the flight into Oakland as I remember. That arrangement continued until, as I remember, some time in 1979 or 1980, when UA returned to both cities with one B-737-222 flight per day in each direction. The jet service, again, as I remember, did not last more than a year, and it may have been only a few months. At the time, as the CAB and deregulation wound down, there were certain notice requirements that had to be met to drop service. EKO today as EMB-120 service provided by Skywest, under the Delta Connection from SLC, and Great Lakes Airlines serves ELY with one roundtrip a day from Las Vegas with Beechcraft 1900D equipment. Ely is spelled with a "y", not an "i".

Perhaps Zippyjet was joking but I have seen these type of posts before.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2957 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 38):
One short DL 757 flight that I can think of is SLC-BOI in the summer.

DL sometimes runs the 757 on SLC-JAC, pretty short.

Regular 757s on DL flights from ATL to Florida. DAB and JAX come to mind with flight times under an hour from wheels up to wheels down.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 79, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

I have been on a 757 COS-DEN on more than one occasion. That right there is a short flight.

They're using these planes because they have them - in the future, these will be 739 routes.

NS


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