Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Germanwings A319 Almost Crashed December 2010  
User currently offlineUnflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 475 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

In December 2010 the 2 pilots of a Germanwings A319 were almost knocked out by some bad smell / gas in the cockpit when landing in Cologne.

Official preliminary report (only in German) here:

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_030/nn_102..._10_5X018_SmellInCockpit_Köln.pdf

Apparently they were in a really bad condition when landing.

Some media suspect a cover up, since this became public just now after almost 2 years:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...rash-vertuscht-haben-a-858446.html

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9177 times:

Seems as if there was some kind of cover up by the airline - they passed misleading information to the BFU to make the incident seem less serious than it was. But in any case, this was a very serious incident, handled about as good as was possible by the crew. A demonstration of one of the many reasons we have two pilots flying airliners. You could argue that the Captain shouldn't have taken the AP off but in this case it seems like it may have been more difficult for them to set up an autoland.

Nicely done, glad they're OK. Could have been really nasty - Avherald states "paramedics commented both pilots were close to faint.".



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineAirBerlin From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

The timing of the discovery is highly suspect. The fact pilots involved waited to have a revaltion about events in the cockpit on that day points to VC (Pilots Union) attempting to discredit the Germanwings brand before the impeding anoucement of the new LH subsidiary. Gemanwings pilots are paid under the same contracts as maineline LH pilots and this would no longer be the case in the new subsidiary. Just my 2 cents...

User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8705 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

The authorities (the BFU) decided shortly after the incident that it did not require an investigation. The pilot's report submitted to them by the airline on 20DEC2010 speaks of an "air emergency" due to "very strong indisposition" as well as "impairment of the senses". The BFU report goes on to state that further contact with the airline revealed that its technicians had identified the source of the smell/substance as de-icing fluid. A year later (December 2011), the BFU received further information on the incident which led to their ongoing investigation.

Quoting AirBerlin (Reply 2):
The timing of the discovery is highly suspect.

Are you suggesting that the BFU is publishing this preliminary report now to support the VC in some way? The two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAirBerlin From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
A year later (December 2011), the BFU received further information on the incident which led to their ongoing investigation.


I was suggesting the pilots chose to give these statement in December 2011, a year after the actual incedent. This was around time when it became clear that Direct Services would be spun off into a subsidiary.

[Edited 2012-09-28 12:37:37]

User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8705 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6906 times:

Quoting AirBerlin (Reply 4):
I was suggesting the pilots chose to give these statement in December 2011, a year after the actual incedent. This was around time when it became clear that Direct Services would be spun off into a subsidiary.

You are implying that, in 2010 on the day after the incident, the pilots knowingly held back the information that led to the investigation - long before the "Direct4U" plans surfaced. Not to mention that the PF was unfit to fly for six months after the incident... that is some effort to put into a bargaining chip that you don't even know you may need some day.

In other words, please stop with the conspiracy theories. Yours is even wilder than SPIEGEL Online accusing 4U of a cover-up, but they're known for their incompetence in issues related to aviation.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAirBerlin From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

I am not implying that information was withheld but that information more dramatic and hyperbolic that what actually occured was provided in December of 2011.

Direct 4U plans first became clear right around this time as I previously stated. See article:

http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/hande...ird-zum-billigflieger/5961502.html

Germanwings did not cover up any information given in 2010. The pilots themselves chose to give extra information in 2011. The motivation for doing at this specific time seems clear.


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

Quoting AirBerlin (Reply 6):
The pilots themselves chose to give extra information in 2011. The motivation for doing at this specific time seems clear.

Correlation =/= causation...



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8705 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5824 times:

Quoting AirBerlin (Reply 6):
The pilots themselves chose to give extra information in 2011.

Where did you get that information? It is not in the report.

Quoting AirBerlin (Reply 6):
The motivation for doing at this specific time seems clear.

Clear to whom?

You're racing to the conclusion that (one of) the pilots submitted a "more dramatic and hyperbolic" (i.e. exaggerated) account of the incident to the BFU with the intent "to discredit the Germanwings brand". I am wondering which facts are bringing you to that conclusion, because without a factual basis, these comments are a highly disrespectful and insolent conspiracy theory.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

I think the real story is actually that BFU got the first information from CGN fire brigade about smoke in the cockpit and that was soon after revised by the pilot's report that this was "only" a smell.

The source of the smell was detected and somehow BFU did not ask the right questions to the right people in time.

It takes months to investigate and do the reports and it makes sense that about 12 months after BFU was at the stage where the pilots had been questioned again. Now, almost 2 years later, we have a preliminary report dated September 27th, which, by co-incidence, falls right into the time when LH publishes plans about "Direct4U" which is based on GWI.

Happens, but no conspiracy. You can tell a lot about German bureaucrats ("Beamte") but they completely lack this kind of humor.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Turkish Aviation December 2010 posted Tue Nov 30 2010 15:31:21 by TK787
December 2010. End Of Tu-154 In Aeroflot Fleet. posted Fri Aug 22 2008 09:09:08 by SIBILLE
Emergency Landing Of Germanwings A319 In Dublin? posted Tue Jun 17 2008 01:15:35 by N14AZ
No Radiation Found On Germanwings A319 posted Sat Dec 9 2006 21:23:46 by A342
Ryanair Flight Almost Crashed, Aaiu Report posted Wed Dec 6 2006 07:14:24 by AirLittoral
Germanwings A319 D-AKNO New C/s Or "Pimp My Ride" posted Wed May 18 2005 19:47:57 by Vfw614
JAL Almost Crashed Into A Mountain In HK posted Fri May 24 2002 06:25:09 by Jiml1126
CI197 'almost' Crashed Into Building In KHH posted Thu Apr 18 2002 00:21:14 by Jiml1126
CI Almost Crashed On The Same Runway That SIA... posted Sun Aug 5 2001 00:59:36 by Jiml1126
Germanwings 4U A319 At Manching (Bavaria) 7/18?! posted Wed Jul 18 2012 06:49:45 by bobmuc