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Siemens Boycott Ryanair Due To Safety Concerns  
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 16569 times:

The Norwegian press are really giving Ryanair a bad time at the moment. Whether or not this is justified is a matter of opinion suppose. Anyway here is the next one (article from NRK in Norwegian): http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.8338991

Apparently Siemens has ordered its 380,000 staff not to fly Ryanair for business trips. It has also called on Ryanair to improve safety for its passengers.

Siemens' press chief said to Swedish broadcaster SVT, "The Siemens management in Germany has decided to boycott Ryanair for a while in order to put pressure on the airline to implement measures to improve safety for our staff".

The article also cites certain incidents that have lead to these safety concerns:

- Three Ryanair planes had to perform emergency landings in Valencia due to low fuel.
- Three people were injured during an emergency landing in Palma.

Also, there have been a number of publised incidents at Rygge, including a high-speed landing due to faulty flap settings.

We all know that Ryanair cut costs where they can but when it comes to safety, do you really think they are putting people at risk?

[Edited 2012-09-28 01:21:21]


Next Flights: LHR-LBA (319-SK), MAN-ARN (736-SK), ARN-LHR (763-BA), LHR-CPH (CR9-SK), CPH-LHR (320-SK), LHR-IAH (744-BA)
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 16548 times:

Has Ryanair released an official statement yet?

User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 16529 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
Siemens' press chief said to Swedish broadcaster SVT, "The Siemens management in Germany has decided to boycott Ryanair for a while in order to put pressure on the airline to implement measures to improve safety for our staff".

Well if they went to the trouble of putting out a press release, then there is obviously another agenda here that isn't clear.
Why didn't they just make an internal policy change through their corporate travel dept. Lots of companies have policies of which carriers to use or not to use, but they don't release press statements about it.


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 16414 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 2):
Well if they went to the trouble of putting out a press release, then there is obviously another agenda here that isn't clear.
Why didn't they just make an internal policy change through their corporate travel dept. Lots of companies have policies of which carriers to use or not to use, but they don't release press statements about it.

I think they are trying to make a point as it is a question of safety and not just a matter of corporate policy.

The article says that Steven McNamara at Ryanair (information chief) says he is unaware of the boycott.



Next Flights: LHR-LBA (319-SK), MAN-ARN (736-SK), ARN-LHR (763-BA), LHR-CPH (CR9-SK), CPH-LHR (320-SK), LHR-IAH (744-BA)
User currently onlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7945 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 16311 times:

I hate Ryanair - boarding pass policy (£50!!) and open seating and general bad ju ju - but they are one of the safest airlines in the world. Loads of aircraft in the airspace over Spain that day declared emergencies, Ryanair had three cos they're the biggest airline in Europe. How many did SAS have? Oh, they only have a couple of flights a day to the whole Iberian peninsula?

When FR had a double birdstrike / double flameout near Rome Ciampiano, the pilot pulled off a deadstick landing as good as Sully or Burkill - and yet FR's chief pilot chastised him (as well as congratulating him and brandishing, apparently, a large cheque as thanks) because the aeroplane, landing gear shorn off and skidding on it's belly, stopped 20ft to one side of the centreline and not right on it. That is the standard Ryanair expect their pilots to operate at, and the fact that they do more flying than any other airline in Europe without an accident (and just the one birdstrike-induced hull-loss, which was without injury to humans) shows how safe they are.

If Siemens had the safety of their employees at heart, they would have been banned from flying Air France even before the AF447 crash. There is something else at work here.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3913 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 16253 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 2):
Well if they went to the trouble of putting out a press release, then there is obviously another agenda here that isn't clear.
Why didn't they just make an internal policy change through their corporate travel dept. Lots of companies have policies of which carriers to use or not to use, but they don't release press statements about it.

Where does the article say that Siemens put out a press release? My understanding is that the press got wind of the story and contacted a Siemens press officer who responded to the inquiry. Nothing sinister behind this.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 16045 times:
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This was one of the top stories on Norwegian broadcaster NRK's morning news this morning, repeated every half hour. They usually don't report tabloid stories, so there must be something more than just a rumour.


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15543 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
If Siemens had the safety of their employees at heart, they would have been banned from flying Air France even before the AF447 crash. There is something else at work here.

I agree. The FR experience is awful for all sorts of reasons, but there is no empirical evidence of which I am aware that FR is unsafe (or less safe than European legacies).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15413 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):

If Siemens had the safety of their employees at heart, they would have been banned from flying Air France even before the AF447 crash. There is something else at work here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Siemens has an "airport solutions" department which sells their products for building efficient hubs. None of it fits with Ryanair's operating model so perhaps they see Ryanair as a threat to their business plan, at least in Europe. I'm just speculating of course but I'm pretty sure this has absolutely nothing to do with Ryanair's safety record and safety practices.


User currently offlinedergay From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13358 times:

Why the anti Ryanair drift? Does anybody know (or care about) the other three aircraft that declared a Mayday for low fuel on that fateful day in Valencia? Can anybody name the airlines involved and state whether they appeared in the media or not? Seemingly the other Irish airlin - Aer Lingus (Air Fungus) has four FAs injured - including one with a broken leg on a recent flight, but it wasn't highlighted by anybody - MOL must be doing something good to p*ss off the media and get so mush publicity!


Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21420 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13103 times:

Were they "emergency landings" or diversions? Low fuel diversions during weather are common.

I supposed AA is unsafe because on a flight back from NRT we had to divert to DEN for fuel reasons even though we had just crossed into Texas? AUS, IAH, DFW were all closed, and we didn't have enough fuel to circle for 2 hours. EMERGENCY! Not...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 13057 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
We all know that Ryanair cut costs where they can but when it comes to safety, do you really think they are putting people at risk?

I'd argue the opposite...because they're so successful at cutting costs (and basing all their branding around that), they *know* that they're more exposed to safety allegations than almost any other carrier. As a direct result, they're *more* safety conscious. If BA has an accident, we assume they did everything right because they're BA and the statistics just went against them (until proven otherwise). If Ryanair has an accident the entire EU will climb down their throats, regardless of the facts of the matter.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
I think they are trying to make a point as it is a question of safety and not just a matter of corporate policy.

But it's not a question of safety...the data is very very clear on that. Siemens knows that too...it's is just a matter of corporate policy but, since Siemens doesn't want to say that, they're couching it as a safety question in order to cover their own rears.

Tom.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12301 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
Has Ryanair released an official statement yet?

Siemens did not release a press statement, in fact that in the article it is stated that the PR department did not know about this situation. This maybe someone's attempt to besmirch FR for their own personal agenda and not Siemens.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinegreenwichsud From United States of America, joined May 2008, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12209 times:

Perhaps Siemens is competing for major business from mother hen Lufthansa.

User currently offlinelhrnue From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12095 times:

Maybe not the answer, but an observation.
When I was with Siemens, the internal travel booking system was in favour of Lufthansa flights. Cheaper flights for the same route listed on open flight search web pages have not been listed on the internal system. Even Swiss was not always available, even when cheaper. And we always wondered why. What the reason was I don't know, but I have the following speculation:
While each single flight is paid by an individual cost centre, an annual e.g. Lufthansa discount based on the total number of flights is paid to central department. So there could be a target to get as many LH flights as possible instead of other airlines.

In this case abut the safety warning with Ryanair my theory falls over, because ther is no reason to make this public, just chnage the internal booking system.


For the records, this is pure speculations and I did not have any insight.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11424 times:

Does Siemens manufacturer anything that goes into the Aerospace industry? This would be more interesting if they did. I wonder if they are trying to get its employees to favor using the train?

User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11067 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 15):
Does Siemens manufacturer anything that goes into the Aerospace industry? This would be more interesting if they did. I wonder if they are trying to get its employees to favor using the train?

Baggage belt carousels and systems is all I know, but they're a massive company, so I'm sure they have their fingers in other systems as well.


User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11047 times:

Is there besides this tabloid article any proof that Siemens really does this and also for this particular reason?

Quoting those 3 diversions and a turbulence victim isnt Siemens, but the / journalist on a bashing mission I guess.
Makes me wonder if the 'journalist' who wrote the article has been a 'stupid' passenger with Ryanair and had to pay for his forgotten boardingpass?  



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10981 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
I hate Ryanair - boarding pass policy (£50!!) and open seating and general bad ju ju - but they are one of the safest airlines in the world. Loads of aircraft in the airspace over Spain that day declared emergencies, Ryanair had three cos they're the biggest airline in Europe. How many did SAS have? Oh, they only have a couple of flights a day to the whole Iberian peninsula?

When FR had a double birdstrike / double flameout near Rome Ciampiano, the pilot pulled off a deadstick landing as good as Sully or Burkill - and yet FR's chief pilot chastised him (as well as congratulating him and brandishing, apparently, a large cheque as thanks) because the aeroplane, landing gear shorn off and skidding on it's belly, stopped 20ft to one side of the centreline and not right on it. That is the standard Ryanair expect their pilots to operate at, and the fact that they do more flying than any other airline in Europe without an accident (and just the one birdstrike-induced hull-loss, which was without injury to humans) shows how safe they are.

If Siemens had the safety of their employees at heart, they would have been banned from flying Air France even before the AF447 crash. There is something else at work here

As much as I don't enjoy flying Ryanair there is a fair point here cedarjet. If you think that in 27 years of flying and with the number of flights per year Ryanair has only had a couple of incidents and no fatalities, something that not all major airlines can say.


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1216 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10827 times:

Few people, if any, enjoy flying Ryanair. We know that, O'Leary knows that. However, very many people cannot resist the offer of bargain basement prices for air travel across or to the continent. O'Leary knows this better than most, and is offering a product that caters wonderfully for that market. In the process the airline has become a viable alternative to the regulars on quite a few routes. But us business travelers hate FR with a passion, and quite often for good reasons. Thus one could, perhaps, nurture thoughts about where in a corporation a rumour such as this could have spawned. But I'm not buying it, for the simple reason it's almost unheard of that one major Europe based corporation issues public statements that are derogatory to other big corporations. It's poor corporate comms that's bound to backfire on you. For that reason alone I think this whole story is a hoax.


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10663 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 15):
Does Siemens manufacturer anything that goes into the Aerospace industry? This would be more interesting if they did.

Aerospace uses a lot of large assembly lines...it's basically impossible to do that without Siemens' equipment or that of their direct competitors.

Tom.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10241 times:
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Who knows whether it was really Siemens' decision to begin with? My employer's corporate travel policy has a list of several airlines that we are not allowed to fly on, along with a blanket ban on all airlines from specific countries. Our travel department merely enforces the list, however, but it is written by our insurance carrier.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
I agree. The FR experience is awful for all sorts of reasons, but there is no empirical evidence of which I am aware that FR is unsafe (or less safe than European legacies).

Perceived risk is as important as actual risk.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9387 times:

As a safety engineering consultant, I would like to think that Siemens Corporate will distance themselves from this article very quickly as it could be very damaging. Siemens supply some ultra reliable equipment to Blue Chip companies based on factual reliability/safety data. I think most will find that Ryanair is one of the most reliable and safest airlines in Europe (if not the world) based on the number of flights and PAX per flight.
I use them all them time as simply a flying bus service. Yes, sometimes they can be annoying from a customer service point of view, but you can't fault their business model.
Lots of posts/news lately are having a go, when actually the underlying cause of recent incidents may not have been the fault of the pilot or indeed the airline, as the 3 recent Spanish events have proved after investigation by the authorities.
Perhaps the Siemens ban on Ryanair is more of a politically move than one based on safety standards. If it is the latter, then Siemens will have even more explaining to do regarding the safety stats they used, and they ones they flog theor own safety products to their own customers??
I think that it is frustrating that FR are getting yet another pasting for no real reason other than they provide a reasonably priced, but reliable and safe service.
BTW, I would use someone else if they could be as efficient as FR but more friendly. Alas my regular commute from EMA to ALC/MJV leaves little choice  


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12887 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9171 times:

Perhaps too, it is just to complicated to use them, that employees make it clear they don't like to use them as too many pax are 'trash', due to their many individual charges, if the flight is overbooked or canceled they can't transfer to other airlines.

User currently offlinegrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 449 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

Quoting ARFFdude (Reply 16):
Quoting United787 (Reply 15):
Does Siemens manufacturer anything that goes into the Aerospace industry? This would be more interesting if they did. I wonder if they are trying to get its employees to favor using the train?

Baggage belt carousels and systems is all I know, but they're a massive company, so I'm sure they have their fingers in other systems as well.

From what I've been told in the past Siemens did the new baggage system in Terminal 2 in DUB


25 lhrnue : As well as Beijing T3 Incheon Munich T2 Frankfurt Madrid T2 Sydney Paris and the list goes on and on.
26 Post contains images KL911 : I do. I am sitting at 36000 feet enjoying the view across Europe for a few Euros..
27 AngMoh : I don't think Siemens staff ordinarily flies Ryanair for the simple reason that bookings must be made through corporate travel while Ryanair bookings
28 SKAirbus : [quote=asctty,reply=22]As a safety engineering consultant, I would like to think that Siemens Corporate will distance themselves from this article ver
29 Post contains images KL911 : Why is that? FR has one of the best if not THE best ontime record in Europe, and just 1 cancellation in 15000 flights. I thought those are the most i
30 Blueshamu330s : The last company I flew for specifically barred us from flying Ryanair after there were a couple of incidents where crew members missed their rostere
31 rfields5421 : Ryanair cuts corners on 'safety' just like every other airline in the world. They are no better or no worse than any other airline. I'm sure if they
32 tdscanuck : I'd argue that they're quite a bit better than most airlines. Tom.
33 musapapaya : One thing I would like other memebrs to inform me is, Ryanair's pilots dont seem to walkround the plane in their turnrounds. All airlines I fly regul
34 flyingalex : I'm sure the boycott is real, but I'm also convinced it has nothing to do with safety or the recent press coverage of Ryanair. I worked for Siemens a
35 tdscanuck : It depends on the Ops Spec, but for several airlines the walkaround is only required by the flight crew on their first flight of the day. Given the h
36 SKAirbus : The way Ryanair pilots seem to slam their aircraft into the runway each time, I'd think a walkaround would be necessary! They don't do smooth!
37 KC135TopBoom : Siemens builts/installs a lot of equipment at airports, not just baggage carousels. At DFW the designed, built, and installed the entire SMGCS system
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