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Air Wisconsin Contracts  
User currently offlineRiverCityFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

Does anyone have any insight on when the ZW US Airways contracts expire? (And if theres any spectualtion of finding a new home for all the CRJ's once they doe expire.) Being a privately held company, it's pretty hard to get any info from press realeases and such.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineboberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5623 times:
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2015, Along with most of the other Express Carriers

User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

The station manager in TYS told me the company will become strictly a ground handler.... ok, you don't get to be TYS station manager for your privileged insight into management's longterm direction...

Pu


User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

Right, and a lot can change between now and then even if that's the current strategy. I would, though, think they would be approaching a fleet refresh later this decade which would force some kind of strategic review.

User currently offlinesaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5438 times:

I'd bet they continue to fly CRJs until they can't anymore. And that will be beyond 2015. Remember NWA's DC-9s? When an airplane is paid for they really become moneymakers. And the owners of AWAC like earning money. As long as there's profit flying airplanes they'll continue to do so.

I will be shocked if ZW stops flying airplanes after 2015. And I'd be willing to bet they'll still be flying for US after 2015 too.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

I think that's likely, however I also think that an overall demand drop for 50 seat jet flying will likely force both capacity cuts and consolidation of carriers. But I agree that it's doubtful this market will completely evaporate.

[Edited 2012-09-30 10:35:32]

User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

Quoting saab2000 (Reply 4):
I'd bet they continue to fly CRJs until they can't anymore. And that will be beyond 2015. Remember NWA's DC-9s? When an airplane is paid for they really become moneymakers. And the owners of AWAC like earning money. As long as there's profit flying airplanes they'll continue to do so.

There's a huge difference between what NW did with the DC9's and ZW's contract with US. Yeah ZW can make money flying the CRJ based on current rates. But when the contract comes up for bid how cheap will they have to go in order to retain the contract? Their pilot group is fairly senior and more expensive than the pilot group at other carriers. The amount of 50 seat flying is going to shrink because of the price of fuel, regardless of how cheaply a carrier is willing to fly it. Remember that ZW refused to play the game with UA, and really bought their current flying by investing in US. They own their fleet, and there is zero demand for the aircraft. Delta is parking them as fast as they can, so even if ZW wants to trade them off for 76 seat aircraft, who will want them? ZW has their challenges going forward, thats for sure.


User currently offlineN757ST From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting saab2000 (Reply 4):

I'd be shocked if awac is flying airplanes beyond 2015. Airways has said how much they want to reduce 50 seat feed. Let's see what happens next year when awac airplanes start to come off lease......


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

Air Wisconsin Management has said they have been talking to American about flying for them out of Bankruptcy...whether or not this involves an RFP or just a contract to move RJ's from US to AA remains to be seen...if at all.

Quoting saab2000 (Reply 4):

I will be shocked if ZW stops flying airplanes after 2015. And I'd be willing to bet they'll still be flying for US after 2015 too.

Two things make me a bit skeptical about this as much as I hope you are wrong. One...they have too many 50 seaters, and US wants to downsize the 50 seat fleet. Secondly, the Pilot contract is not resolved yet...and while it looks like ALPA is making progress on this regard...the contract could end up forcing Air Wisconsin to be more expensive than other contracts in the industry. Management has said this, but it does seem like they are caving in to some pilot demands in talks though. I don't know what it means long term though.


User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

I wouldn't go to far with that American rumor. They may be "talking" but if US and AA are going to combine and Parker and his boys are running the show its going to be a big NO. Parker wants ZW out at US as fast as possible. Their product is horrible and their employees are rude, an embarassment to the US Airways name and its not even close to what PSA or Chatauqua offer for example with their more professional crews and overall better service. The ZW planes are constantly broken and dirty. Anyone see aircraft 440 lately? 1/2 the paint is off of it! 427 is almost the same way and 438 is getting there. Dont see this with any other Express carriers. Makes me wonder how safe these planes really are? They also have crew scheduling problems which are a daily occurance. No excuse why we should be constantly waiting for a F/A or Captain when the other 2 crew members are there. Unacceptable. They are the most expensive Express carrier for US and we are definatly not getting our moneys worth from them. The sooner they go the better. There is plenty of room in the desert for their 71 CRJ-200's.

User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 9):
I wouldn't go to far with that American rumor. They may be "talking" but if US and AA are going to combine and Parker and his boys are running the show its going to be a big NO. Parker wants ZW out at US as fast as possible. Their product is horrible and their employees are rude, an embarassment to the US Airways name and its not even close to what PSA or Chatauqua offer for example with their more professional crews and overall better service. The ZW planes are constantly broken and dirty. Anyone see aircraft 440 lately? 1/2 the paint is off of it! 427 is almost the same way and 438 is getting there. Dont see this with any other Express carriers. Makes me wonder how safe these planes really are? They also have crew scheduling problems which are a daily occurance. No excuse why we should be constantly waiting for a F/A or Captain when the other 2 crew members are there. Unacceptable. They are the most expensive Express carrier for US and we are definatly not getting our moneys worth from them. The sooner they go the better. There is plenty of room in the desert for their 71 CRJ-200's.

Here you go again with the Air Wisconsin bashing. You are becoming way too predictable with this bashing and you don't know for a fact what Parker and CO is thinking.

The paint is a huge issue...and its why several Air Wisconsin planes have been going to GLH in recent months to get new paint, and several more will, and the vendor they are using is the same one that Delta and United have used. As for the scheduling problems....part of the problem is there is daily Jr. Manning caused by management offering TOWOP, putting them into a short staffing situation. Those issues are not unlike the issues going on over at AA right now. The other problem is that there is no Air Wisconsin crew base in CLT, so when there are issues that arise in CLT, it becomes much more difficult to deal with them. This is the fault of USAirways...who will not give Air Wisconsin space in CLT for a crew room nor allow them sufficient RON's to justify a crew base, nor give them hangar space for a MX.
As for performance....controllable completion has been outstanding the past couple of months...and the goals that US has set for ZW are constantly being met....and they are the best of the regionals at complying with the new fuel policy that US is mandating from the regionals. Do they have their problems? Sure they do. But they do a pretty good job all things considered...and your constant bashing of them makes it that much more difficult for them to do their job. If you truly care about the US brand, the bashing wouldn't be so public on here.


User currently offlineordramper98 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

I for one hope Air Wisconsin does retain and/or gets more flying in the future. Contrary to what crj900lr says, they were the best express partner we had at UA. There was no comparison in the professionalism of the crews, agents, dispatch of ZW as compared to the Mesa's (maybe this is who crj900 works/ worked for) of the world. Skywest has been pretty good as well. ExpressJet has had lots of crew issues, as well as Transtates.

Obviously I don't deal with ZW anymore but Apodino is correct about crj900lr's bias towards them. It's getting old and you sound like such a complainer. Good luck ZW.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1064 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4453 times:
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Air Wisconsin was a great partner to UAL so much so that the B25-B29 Extension at ORD was Built FOR their Personal use. That's how much UAL loved them. Their MANAGEMENT walked away from that relationship and reaped the Wind when UAL did some "Dastardly" stuff to them after buying them and cutting them up for "Chum". ZW's days might very well be coming to an End but ONLY if they keep to their present course. They were once a Premier Regional Airline and could be again if they chose to be.. But !! That would take Management with some "HUEVOS" Cunning and BRAINS, which I seriously doubt any Regional carrier Has in this day and age. Atlantic Coast / Independence Air was the last one I saw and I Hope I'll see another in my lifetime. This "Express and Connection" carrier Mess is what got them INTO this and they'll have to get OUT even if they have to Band together as an industry to do it. Were all the RAA airlines to join forces they could control their OWN destinies and NOT have to take a "Brody" like Com Air is going to have to. If Air Wisconsin flies for Air Wisconsin?
Then NOBODY can sell them short !! I know the Majors got them hooked like "Junkies" but they CAN wean themselves off the Major's "Crack" and again stand Tall on their OWN. Live and Die on their OWN Business plan. All they've done is hurt the Pilot Profession, the Mechanic Profession and dilute the collective Management Intelligentsia. The Managers I see coming to the Majors now?? (United in particular) Do well to recognize an A320 or a 737 2 out of 3 times IF they were looking at the same airplane!! They come in with a lot of 6 Sigma "Bunk" that hasn't a damn thing to do with the Situation we find ourselves in. They come in with "we need Less FTE's" as if we're not talking about "People". and Have NO IDEA what it takes to do a Service check on an airplane, Crew said airplane, Provision and/ or Equip said airplane. It's No Wonder why we have disgruntled Pilots at UA/CO, US/AW or AMR. And I can GUARANTEE We'll have MORE labor Strife than LESS in the future. What Air Wisconsin, Compass, Skywest and others have done they've done to themselves.
It's coming High Time they get themselves off the "sippy cup" and quit whining for MO' MILK!! Hell! the Cow is DEAD!!


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4434 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 12):
and Have NO IDEA what it takes to do a Service check on an airplane, Crew said airplane, Provision and/ or Equip said airplane.

Your diatribes are so tired. ZW would first and foremost be crushed, stomped into oblivion, and sold for pennies on the dollar if they tried to go into branded service.

Also, if no one in management has any idea how to do the things you say, then it's a miracle they keep getting done is it?


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
The other problem is that there is no Air Wisconsin crew base in CLT, so when there are issues that arise in CLT, it becomes much more difficult to deal with them. This is the fault of USAirways...who will not give Air Wisconsin space in CLT for a crew room nor allow them sufficient RON's to justify a crew base, nor give them hangar space for a MX.

Your point about operational reliability at CLT is fair. Without a crew base full of reserves, it surely must be more difficult to restore the operation to normal after delays and other issues. But I hardly think the reason for not having a crew base is due to lack of space for a crew room. If Air Wisconsin were willing to lease operational space from the City of Charlotte and pay the associated rents then I'm sure the City of Charlotte would be happy to provide said space. Likewise, if Air Wisconsin wanted to develop a maintenance facility and construct a hangar, I'm sure the City of Charlotte would be happy to lease them the land.

At the end of the day, how much of this is actually the responsibility of US Airways? After all, they do not have exclusive control over the land and infrastructure of the Charlotte Airport. They are tenants, just like all of the other airlines, concessionaires, and businesses there. An important tenant, of course, but not the overall decision maker. Developing an operationally-reliable schedule with its express affiliates is another matter, and hopefully one that US Airways is working on to avoid ongoing reliability problems associated with crew scheduling at Air Wisconsin.


User currently offlinecv640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 9):
I wouldn't go to far with that American rumor. They may be "talking" but if US and AA are going to combine and Parker and his boys are running the show its going to be a big NO. Parker wants ZW out at US as fast as possible. Their product is horrible and their employees are rude, an embarassment to the US Airways name and its not even close to what PSA or Chatauqua offer for example with their more professional crews and overall better service. The ZW planes are constantly broken and dirty. Anyone see aircraft 440 lately? 1/2 the paint is off of it! 427 is almost the same way and 438 is getting there. Dont see this with any other Express carriers. Makes me wonder how safe these planes really are? They also have crew scheduling problems which are a daily occurance. No excuse why we should be constantly waiting for a F/A or Captain when the other 2 crew members are there. Unacceptable. They are the most expensive Express carrier for US and we are definatly not getting our moneys worth from them. The sooner they go the better. There is plenty of room in the desert for their 71 CRJ-200's.

I rode them a fair amount while commuting and always found them very professional and hard working. Their aircraft did look in need of painting and some cleaning, but everything else was quite fine in my opinion. I would have no problem riding on them again.


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1518 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
nor allow them sufficient RON's to justify a crew base

Your observation is spot on, with the exception of this statement.

An airline does not need RON aircraft to have a crew base. That is an old tried an true bullshit excuse NOT to use hub basing, which induces more hotel expenses at the outstations.


User currently offlinesaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

I believe there has been a major effort to improve reliability and it shows. The past six months have anecdotally seemed much better. The addition of an operational spare airframe has really improved things. I'm seeing far fewer big delays and cancellations than I used to see. Hope it keeps up.


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 16):
An airline does not need RON aircraft to have a crew base.

I'll second that one.

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
who will not give Air Wisconsin space in CLT for a crew room

But doesn't AWAC have a shared crew room in CLT? Is it not sufficient? (I ask because I really don't know)

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 9):
Makes me wonder how safe these planes really are?

I have no problem putting myself and my entire family on a ZW aircraft. And I'm a big wimp.

I was on the hotel van with an AWAC FO who, I think, mentioned that Airways had really cut back on their amount of CLT flying as of late. Is the focus going back up towards DCA and/or PHL?



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2049 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

getting out of the regional flying business is probably a good idea when you consider the cost of new airframes as well as the increasing difficulty of sourcing pilots that is expected.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5175 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 18):
Is the focus going back up towards DCA and/or PHL?

From what I can tell looking at schedules both, but especially DCA.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 16):
An airline does not need RON aircraft to have a crew base

Doesn't one of the USEx partners have a crew base in ORF of all places, PSA maybe?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3819 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
Doesn't one of the USEx partners have a crew base in ORF of all places, PSA maybe?

ZW does. PSA's bases are CLT, DAY and TYS.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 18):

But doesn't AWAC have a shared crew room in CLT? Is it not sufficient? (I ask because I really don't know)

There is a break room on the E concourse that ZW crews do use from time to time...but it is not a crew room in the strictest sense because you would need computers, v files, and all sorts of other things that come with that.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 18):

I was on the hotel van with an AWAC FO who, I think, mentioned that Airways had really cut back on their amount of CLT flying as of late. Is the focus going back up towards DCA and/or PHL?

I was thinking about this myself at work tonight. Given the problems that they have moving planes on and off the ramp due to poor infastructure, combined with seasonal drawdowns, this makes perfect sense, especially since weather issues this time of year aren't nearly as common.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1064 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3579 times:
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Quoting RDH3E (Reply 13):

And How would YOU know?? And Didn't I say the NEW management coming TO the Majors from Regionals ? Maybe you might want to READ the statement first. Air Wisconsin HAD management. But those t managers got them INTO where they are TODAY and the newbies are full of 6 sigma and HAVE no Idea about what they're doing.
THAT's What I said!! . And I AM in management AT an Actual airline and not sitting around with A.Net "armchair" theories about it.
There WAS a time when ZW had their OWN routes and Operated completely autonomous. Why would you say they Can't again?? Maybe You can't see it but I can. and? were they to Not try and fly all over th place like Independence air did? they could Still go back and do it over. The CRJ is NOT the only airplane available, and NO major would want to Crush a regional in this day and age. Nobody at the majors is chasing Market share anymore because they know they can restrict seats from coming Online to keep their fares Yields and ancillary revenues up.
When was the LAST time you saw a fare war??
There's Room for some independents to interline rather than Code share. Maybe they can start a trend BACK to when
all the regionals WERE independent operators.
Maybe Not Skywest , Express jet and Eagle anymore. with +200, and 700+ planes those are REALLY big regionals and might not survive on their own. without a LOT of upheval ...
But returning to their Roots is not going to be pleasant and I would never say that it is.
Delta is canning 50 seat Jet flying , USAir and American are also trying to shed 50 seat Jet flying. United already HAS 70+ jets flying and wants another 200+. Needless to say it's NOT looking good for regionals right now. Or for their employees.
And I'll BET it gets Worse in the Next 2 years..


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):
daily Jr. Manning caused by management offering TOWOP,

What does TOWOP stand for?

Thanks!



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinesaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Time Off Without Pay.


smrtrthnu
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