flaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 253 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5636 times:
The other day, I was making a connection in MDW on my way to SLC and I had a 3 hour layover where I did a fair amount of plane watching. I must have seen at least 75 WN planes take off and land and every single plane was a NG version. Does WN only fly this variant of 737 in and out of MDW because of the short runways? Do they need a higher performing 737 than the -300 or the -500 for MDW? Does anyone have any insight on this?
fghtngsiouxatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5586 times:
Short answer: no.
Are you basing your theory on all the 737s you saw having winglets? Most WN 733s now have winglets. Any WN 737 you see at MDW without winglets will be leaving the fleet sooner than later.
Easiest way to tell a WN 737 NG from a classic is the NG's have their flap canoes painted red, the classics do not. Also you can tell a classic by the retractable landing light under the wing.
flaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 253 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5556 times:
Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2): Are you basing your theory on all the 737s you saw having winglets?
No, I definately know how to spot a NG version. I am a very seasoned traveller who knows aircraft types very well. Also, most of the NG's have the WiFi "bubble" on top as well. Not to be picky, but the flap canoes are actually orange, not red.
737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5445 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 3): No, I definately know how to spot a NG version. I am a very seasoned traveller who knows aircraft types very well. Also, most of the NG's have the WiFi "bubble" on top as well. Not to be picky, but the flap canoes are actually orange, not red.
Well, No, they are red. At least what WN calls red. As far as the WiFi "bubble" (its a radome), only about 33% of the fleet has been converted. So can you really spot a NG?? The easiest way is to watch the anti-collision lights, are they synchronized? If not it's a 300/500. Look at the landing lights, are they all four together or are there landing lights outboard.
Not to be picky: (your words), they really are red. I have repainted several parts of this airplane. I'll relax now MR. seasoned traveler, no problems. I'm a seasoned WN mech. so there ya go. Take this as you will.
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5338 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 3): No, I definately know how to spot a NG version. I am a very seasoned traveller who knows aircraft types very well. Also, most of the NG's have the WiFi "bubble" on top as well. Not to be picky, but the flap canoes are actually orange, not red.
Ooh, shouldn'ta got snobby with your response.
Anyhow, while I'm glad you saw 75+ NG's at MDW the other day, I just flew on a -300 in from OKC. So nope, either you're not as good as you think you are, or WN just happened to have a "NG Only" party the day you were there.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1499 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5398 times:
MDW is not completely serviced by 737NGs but it has fewer 737 classics than I think people realize. For the weekday schedule this October, there are 231 WN flights out of MDW. There are 11 733, no 735, 204 73G/73W, and 16 73H flights. The 11 733 flights are to DTW, IND, and STL. So it definitely isn't rare to spot only 73Gs at MDW.
spiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5224 times:
Another easy way to tell a -300 from a -700 is the tails and the front end angle. To me, the tail on the -700 looks HUGE. Also, the front of the plane seems to have a bit of a downward angle, almost a CRJ-7/900 but not as severe, while the tail on the -300 looks smaller and the aircraft has more of an upward slope similar to a CRJ-200, but again not as severe. Also, I don't know if it's TRUE, but to me the winglets on the -300s look a bit shorter than the -700s.
flaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 253 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5092 times:
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5): Ooh, shouldn'ta got snobby with your response.
Anyhow, while I'm glad you saw 75+ NG's at MDW the other day, I just flew on a -300 in from OKC. So nope, either you're not as good as you think you are, or WN just happened to have a "NG Only" party the day you were there.
OK, everyone just calm down!! No need to get all airliners.net on me!! The main point of my question was that since MDW has short runways, does WN need a higher performing aircraft such as the NG compared to the classic -300 and -500. I guess the answer is no but over 90% of the flights are NG. When the classics fly in/out of MDW, are they mostly using full power takeoffs? BTW, another good way to tell the NG's from the rest are the size and shape of the engines and pylons. The NG engines do not have that "flattened" look that the -300's have.
Alnicocunife From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5091 times:
Easy way to tell them apart is to look at the the end. The APU exhaust area on the NG's has two holes (one for exhaust one for compartment air). The classics only have one hole. Exhaust only.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21237 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5055 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 9): does WN need a higher performing aircraft such as the NG compared to the classic -300 and -500.
Do they need the -700? Not usually - the biggest exception being when the runways are contaminated, when the 73G and the 733 perform quite a bit differently.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5026 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 9): BTW, another good way to tell the NG's from the rest are the size and shape of the engines and pylons. The NG engines do not have that "flattened" look that the -300's have.
Wow, they sure jumped all over you!
I use the cross section of the engine pylons as an easy way to tell, with the classics being rectangular, and the NGs being more of a semi-circle. Useful for when you can't see the flap canoes or apu....
spiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
I don't know why everybody here jumps all over each other when they think it is a stupid question. Granted, the question could have been worded better, but it is a legitimate question.
As for the runways, 6500 feet is plenty of runway for all of WN's 737s. Up until recently I thought MDW was mostly Classics!
n471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4690 times:
I too spent sometime at MDW this past week and noticed that not all gates will be handling the 800"s-----I could see that some gates had the tarmac marks for 800's and some did not---I would have thought that for flexibility WN would want all gates "800-worthy"
SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2009 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4359 times:
MDW is basically a HUB for WN, although they call it something different. Odds are you will see multiple 737 types out of there. I was last there in December 2010, and flew in on N637SW, and flew out on N917WN.
The Flap Canoe's are Red except for the ones behind the engine, they are black
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5338 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3828 times:
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 9): OK, everyone just calm down!! No need to get all airliners.net on me!!
LOL, if you don't want people to go a.net on you, then don't be snobbish when they answer your questions.... hint: it deters people from answering your future questions. Social skillz there, learn from my mistakes.
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8): Another easy way to tell a -300 from a -700 is the tails and the front end angle. To me, the tail on the -700 looks HUGE.
Indeed, the NG tail was heightened to give the vertical and rudder more authority in the event of single-engine operation, as the engines are now (well, depending on which box the customer ticks) possibly more powerful, particularly in the case of the -900. More powerful engine = larger yaw forces induced when one goes out = need for more vertical surface area and rudder to counteract those forces.
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8): Also, the front of the plane seems to have a bit of a downward angle, almost a CRJ-7/900 but not as severe, while the tail on the -300 looks smaller and the aircraft has more of an upward slope similar to a CRJ-200, but again not as severe.
The downward angle of the stubbier NG's is due to the stretching of the main gear. The nose gear was also stretched (thank goodness.... it's SO HARD to duck under the belly of a classic), but not as much.
For the MAX, the nose gear is going to be lengthened to the point that it doesn't even fit in the gear well; I'm wondering if this will give it a tail-dragger appearance. I kinda hope it does for the novelty, but I know that would wear off in about ten minutes, and then we'd just call the plane UGLY.
spiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3786 times:
The 737MAX does sound like it is going to being sickeningly ugly. The winglets are apready horrible and if they stretch the gear like you say, it is going to be downright horrible. The 737-700 is the best looking aircraft in the world and they are ruining it.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14324 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3746 times:
Quoting jaydub (Reply 7): So, is the MDW operation made up mostly of B73G's? Yes.
Is it "B73G-only"? Hardly.
It does seem that -300s are somewhat kept away from MDW, making up 25% of the fleet but about 7% of MDW departures, likely due to runway and range restrictions. With -800s it's the opposite, with about 7% of MDW departures despite making up only 4% of the fleet, which makes perfect sense considering that MDW is one of the bigger destinations and would need more seats.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3746 times:
The runways aren't THAT short. I rode an ATA 738 fully loaded from MDW nonstop to GDL. In their heyday they used to run 753s through there.
The runway length really comes into play during weather events...some fog will shut down MDW before it shuts ORD, same with snow.
fghtngsiouxatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1763 times:
I work at MDW ramp side, and 17 737 classic's per day seems a bit low, and I could have sworn I saw a 735 or two in the past couple days, too; but if that's coming from WN operations, I probably shouldn't second guess it.
I watch WN 737's take off at MDW day after day, and they all seem the same: normal. The only difference is the 738s sometimes use a bit more runway.
Keep in mind TZ used to send in 757-300s every day without a problem (except the time one hit the fence over by 22L. Woops!). 737 classics have no issue taking off out of MDW.
737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 18): Indeed, the NG tail was heightened to give the vertical and rudder more authority in the event of single-engine operation, as the engines are now (well, depending on which box the customer ticks) possibly more powerful, particularly in the case of the -900. More powerful engine = larger yaw forces induced when one goes out = need for more vertical surface area and rudder to counteract those forces.
I could be wrong here but I believe the max. output of the CFM56-7B is 27'000 lbs. of thrust (i.e. CFM56-7B27). This is what is currently run on our 800's and believe is the same as the 900. Our 700's are CFM56-7B24s with the classics running CFM56-3s at 20,000 lbs.. So yes you definitely need a larger rudder. Sorry about the off topic.
25 ouboy79: OKC-MDW is normally a 735 and took it a couple times last month. So who knows. They might have upped it to a -300 or -700.
26 wjcandee: WN started flying 737s into MDW in 1985. I remember the first flight. I was in law school then in Chicago. WN was flying almost-exclusively 737-200s a
27 spiritair97: Another thing that I just remembered; wasn't it mentioned somehwere in another thread about s big FI announcment, that the takeoff run for the MAX at
28 grain: 11,000 feet seems a little long even if it is at MTOW
29 spiritair97: I completely agree but, then again, there are certain performance kits they can have installed so I guess WN. probably will. BTW, here's a thread abo
30 Cubsrule: Even assuming the 11,000 foot number is true, why would it follow that the Max would stay away from MDW? The 753 needs a lot more than 6,200 feet und
31 N766UA: Considering that, based on jaydub's post, better than 9 out of 10 flights are NG's, I'd say it's probably pretty likely nearly all of the 737s you sa
32 wjcandee: There aren't a lot of flights on WN that would have any reason to go out of Chicago at MTOW, so the premise is wrong.
33 N766UA: 11,000 feet keeps it out of the vast majority of airports in the US, not just MDW. That number's gotta be wrong considering a 739 can do DCA-SEA off
34 spiritair97: Alright, obviously I worded that in a way that was misleading. Let's try it this way; if the 11,000ft is actually true, it will keep some routes out
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