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Al Baker Blasts Boeings Failure Of 787 Deliveries  
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2168 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21900 times:

From Flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ailure-over-787-deliveries-377099/

Was only a matter of time I guess... Still no firm delivery date.


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21781 times:

To quote a line from the article:

"With no firm delivery date currently in sight, Al Baker says the airline "now has to look at all our options"

They're starting to play hard ball!


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21699 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1):
They're starting to play hard ball!

When is Al Baker NOT playing hardball!?!?!
He's one step this side of Mike O'Leary on the insanity scale...


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21704 times:

Anyone wanna bet it'll be a repeat of the Cargolux 747-8F saga? The Mouthful One will b*tch in the media until he'll get "undisclosed settlement" from Boeing to quiet him down.


All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21456 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
When is Al Baker NOT playing hardball!?!?!
He's one step this side of Mike O'Leary on the insanity scale...

I know that "negotiaing through the media" seems to be how ME airlines do business but it does seem rather bad tempered and I wonder whether it taints future deals that they airlines look for with the suppliers.

Does seem odd that the 787 went to Farnborough painted up in QR colours but it is still not clear when it's going to be delivered


User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21327 times:

What exactly is the delay? Why won't AAB let QR take delivery?

User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21155 times:

well they should have had one yesterday, not sure sure if that happened,

best way to follow the 787 program is keep an eye on http://nyc787.blogspot.hk/ seems to keep most people up to date better then Boeing does!

however they have found a little problem media reports said that there is a second 787 that had a cracked fan mid-shaft. hope this does not effect whats on the line at the moment, or if the problem could get worse!



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12395 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19805 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
When is Al Baker NOT playing hardball!?!?!
He's one step this side of Mike O'Leary on the insanity scale...

I can't really blame AAB here; if I were in his position, I'd be pretty darn annoyed; here we are, about 3-4 weeks before the Winter schedule is due to start and still no delivery. This puts a massive amount of pressure on any airline's planning, because basically, everything else has to be rejigged and schedules have to be reworked. It must be a huge pain for any airline, but particularly a rapidly growing one.


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19629 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 4):
Does seem odd that the 787 went to Farnborough painted up in QR colours but it is still not clear when it's going to be delivered

Not in the context of the 787 programme....remember the original rollout?

I do however wonder what the reciprocal pressure was from AB to get his 787 at Farnborough?....perhaps this has come back to bite Boeing in the bum

Lose the Ryder Cup and then have Al B bark at you in the morning...its going to be a tough day for our American cousins



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1585 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19408 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1):
now has to look at all our options

Qatar Airways i know a great solution it's called A330-300!   



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19287 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
best way to follow the 787 program is keep an eye on http://nyc787.blogspot.hk/

How accurate is this? It shows 26 B-787s delivered and 2 are ready for delivery to QR. I though Boeing has only delivered 19 or 20 B-787s by now.

QRs LN-57, ZA-460, A7-BCA is in "Pre-Flight Prep" and LN-58, ZA-461, A7-BCB is showing "Ready For Delivery".


User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18693 times:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 9):
Qatar Airways i know a great solution it's called A330-300!

Im not sure what the second hand market is like?...

But I highly doubt Airbus would be able to off load to Qatar a load of A330's at short notice in the next year or so, to cover the airlines short-comings of 787's.

While the A330 is considered yesterdays technology, compared to the likes of the 787 and A350 it is still selling strong and has a considerable backlog still.

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 1):
Al Baker says the airline "now has to look at all our options"

Im not sure what other options they have, other than holding tight. Maybe possibly wet leasing aircraft from the likes of Jet Airways or Kingfisher, like Gulf Air did a few years back. Or obtaining some A340-300 from the secondhand market for 2-3 years and just have to absorb the higher operating costs over operating the 787's until they arrive.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5728 posts, RR: 48
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18520 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):

How accurate is this? It shows 26 B-787s delivered and 2 are ready for delivery to QR. I though Boeing has only delivered 19 or 20 B-787s by now.

It's accurate. I know since I put it together. Boeign hasn't delivered 19-20 787s. They're delivering the 26th today (23 of this year).



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 867 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18274 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
How accurate is this? It shows 26 B-787s delivered and 2 are ready for delivery to QR. I though Boeing has only delivered 19 or 20 B-787s by now.

Number delivered is accurate. Expected delivery dates often aren't accurate since they are based on a snapshot of schedules which change constantly (and do so for mature programs as well as for the 787) and tend to move to the right.


User currently onlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 18068 times:

Sounds like cargolux again. Now that there are two 787d ready to go al b starts bitching about it, in attempt to gain financial leverage.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6970 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 17843 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
I can't really blame AAB here; if I were in his position, I'd be pretty darn annoyed;
Quoting shankly (Reply 8):
I do however wonder what the reciprocal pressure was from AB to get his 787 at Farnborough?....perhaps this has come back to bite Boeing in the bum

Reason why Boeing was dam*** if you do dam**** if you don't, they did not want to have the a/c at the air show and they caved, now they are being blasted and being the company that they are, cannot say I told you so. The engine issue may also be a factor, which Boeing as the final integrator is still responsible.
Always best to stick to your guns rather than circumventing, I still don't think they shoud have done a flying demonstration.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30388 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17527 times:
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Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 4):
Does seem odd that the 787 went to Farnborough painted up in QR colours but it is still not clear when it's going to be delivered.

As I understand it, AAB has refused to take delivery of that airframe because the interior needs to be refurbished and there is an issue with the OnAir Internet connectivity to the THALES IFE system.

On the first part, considering AAB was the one who told Boeing to send the plane to Farnborough and then opened it up for the press to run around it and try it out, I find it a bit cheeky to then complain about the plane being in less than perfect condition.

As to the second part, sounds like a vendor problem for a customer-furnished equipment item, so AAB should be raking OnAir and THALES over the coals, not Boeing, unless the issue is with how Boeing installed the systems.


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2350 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13091 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
How accurate is this? It shows 26 B-787s delivered and 2 are ready for delivery to QR. I though Boeing has only delivered 19 or 20 B-787s by now

It is extremely accurate on deliveries, line moves etc. So in that respect it is a very useful site. You can count on those numbers!

I do find it's outlook to future deliveries somewhat optimistic. Each start of the month it is expecting (or hoping) for more deliveries than eventually take place. Perhaps this is a reflection on optimistic scheduling by Boeing. It seems that their days of underpromising and over delivering are well behing us.

Still I find the site very usefull and I check it out on a daily basis. So kudos and many thanks to Uresh NYC777!

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
He's one step this side of Mike O'Leary on the insanity scale...

Beat me too it. You should try workng for the guy (AAB)....not a walk in the park!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 9):
Qatar Airways i know a great solution it's called A330-300!

Flightglobal is talking of Qatar Airways seeking A330 for delivery from 2013:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-deal-in-wake-of-787-delay-377158/

Can this be serious?


User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Quoting art (Reply 19):
Flightglobal is talking of Qatar Airways seeking A330 for delivery from 2013:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-deal-in-wake-of-787-delay-377158/

Can this be serious?

It could be only semi-serious to give Boeing some focus because they're going to have to pay a good price for A330s so soon as there's over 250 in the backlog currently unless there's a second airline involved who'd like to sell there places in the queue?


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 20):
Quoting art (Reply 19):
Flightglobal is talking of Qatar Airways seeking A330 for delivery from 2013:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-deal-in-wake-of-787-delay-377158/

Can this be serious?

It could be only semi-serious to give Boeing some focus because they're going to have to pay a good price for A330s so soon as there's over 250 in the backlog currently unless there's a second airline involved who'd like to sell there places in the queue?

If late delivery of 787 has disrupted winter schedule plans, they are now history. So what's the point of talking to Airbus about A330? If the problem is a shortage of metal, 787's would be delivered before any A330 could be so why bother even thinking of ordering A330? Short of considering cancelling 787's it seems pointless to me.


User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3370 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting art (Reply 21):
If late delivery of 787 has disrupted winter schedule plans, they are now history. So what's the point of talking to Airbus about A330? If the problem is a shortage of metal, 787's would be delivered before any A330 could be so why bother even thinking of ordering A330? Short of considering cancelling 787's it seems pointless to me

Seems similarly pointless to me too unless they want to punish B for spoiling the Winter season.


User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quite how Boeing manage to talk about a new flavour of the 787 - the 10, when they clearly cannot get existing orders out of the door with a backlog of 800 - which will, at this rate, take a decade to clear is beyond me.It is just plain rude to your exisitng customers.

User currently offlinezkokq From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

Quoting parapente (Reply 23):

Most orders will probably be upgraded to the 781. So why not get in the queue.


25 frigatebird : As usual very quick to blame Boeing. I guess you haven't read this: As I understood it, QR ordered 788s to replace their A332 fleet. And how AAB thin
26 scbriml : Maybe that is something that's being considered? Presumably, both have been certified by on the 787 and integrated by Boeing?
27 NYC777 : What you said is pure BS and you know it. Boeing has been ramping up production and delivereiss over the last few months and have a lot of 787s that
28 Post contains images brindabella : Hi NYC777! Don't bite. t's not worth it. Waste of time & effort. Just keep the super web-site going! cheers, Bill
29 NYC777 : Thanks!
30 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here is some additional information about the hold-up: No Boeing 787 delivery until engine fault fixed - Qatar Airways[Edited 2012-10-02 07:40:33]
31 art : Which will take how long? Has the manufacturer already come up with a fix? Edit: In any event, a fault in the engine that has only recently come to l
32 Post contains images brindabella : Ah! - now we see the real target! The hare is running! (Years ago, I had a couple of computer firms. There were some customers who, in retrospect, we
33 Post contains images mffoda : But, They can get A330's in mid-13 (9 months?).. What does that say about the " "quality" of their order-book!" for the A330?
34 sirtoby : I would say nothing in the first place. It just could mean that there are a few delivery positions left between all the deliveries for the high quali
35 mffoda : So, you don't see a problem with the 330's order-book... But you do with the 787's, as does the poster that I directed my comment to?
36 Stitch : The problem isn't with Boeing, it's with GE. As noted up-thread, QR won't take delivery until GE fixes the mid-fan-shaft issue. So Boeing's as much a
37 brindabella : Cut! Cut! Please!!!! The point is, Al Baker is just negotiating through the press. He's not going to buy new A330s - there aren't any. (Or so I since
38 astuteman : Mmmm. I'm sure it's so much a "when, more a "how many" How many 787's should he have had by now? And how many should he have had in say 3 years time?
39 Stitch : I just don't see GE needing 12 months to provide fixed GEnx engines. So QR should be able to get one-third to one-half of their 787s before the first
40 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G'day While the overall quality of the A 330 order book appears solid, there are some less than "solid" customers in there, Kingfisher, Libyan come to
41 par13del : I think we already knew this, AI did the same thing, part of their delay was also related to the engine issue. The engine issue just added an additio
42 Post contains links NYC777 : According to Strategic Aero, Qatar is to receive it's 1st 787 this week (contractual delviery) followed by a delivery ceremony around Oct. 17th. http:
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