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2013 SNA Slot Allocation; AS/DL/F9 Reduce, WN Adds  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7806 times:

The County is out with air carrier capacity and slot allocations for the 2013 calendar year.

Unlike most years where activities have been pretty stable, 2013 sees quite a few changes.

Highlights.
o Alaska is temporarily (up to 3 years) returning 4 slots (2 were not used anyhow)
o Delta is permanently returning 3 slots.
o In addition Delta affiliate Compass did not utilize its 3 allocated 2012 slots, so those were vacated. Skywest will instead utilize 3 slots on behalf of Delta but under commuter exemptions.
o Frontier is permanently returning 1 slot by April 2013. (but in reality published schedule change shows it ends January 7th)
o Interjet was allocated 4 slots as a new entrant. Will temporarily return 2 to the pool until it builds is schedule
o Westjet makes permanent its previous temporary return of a single slot. Retains 2 slots.
o Southwest keeps growing – allocated its 54th slot – up 5 from 2012 allocation.

In summary each is allotted following to utilize:

Air Carrier:
Alaska – 10
American – 12
Delta – 8
Fedex – 0.7
Frontier – 3.3
Interjet – 2
Southwest – 54
United – 20
UPS – 0.6
US Airways - 6
WestJet - 2

Commuter:
Mesa – 1 (for US Airways)
Skywest – 3 (for Delta)


Besides slots the County also allocates aircraft capacity at the airport in order to remain below maximum allowed enplanements. This years capacity allocation calls for air carriers to offer 12,208,004 seats.

Lastly, as parking space is also limited at SNA, the County allocated RON parking spots. This year with the expanded terminal open, overnight allocations total 27.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

I'd still like to see AS or QX start SNA-SJC service. AA and B6 have dropped SJC-SNA/LGB recently and I think WN could use some competition. I know AS dropped OAK-SNA, but given their new focus on SJC it seams that may be a good addition to AS's network. I believe QX was awarded SNA slots last time, but declined them, and AS is giving slots back so it's not looking hopeful though.

User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Southwest keeps growing – allocated its 54th slot – up 5 from 2012 allocation.

Just to confirm: Does this mean WN had 49 in 2012 and will have 54 in 2013?

Other questions: Are these new WN slots available for international travel or just domestic? And does WN currently use all of their awarded slots?


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
American – 12

Weren't there rumors that AA would go down from 12 flights a day at SNA to eight (5 DFW/3 ORD) and close the Admirals Club at SNA? This should stop those rumors.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Delta is permanently returning 3 slots.

I guess that means SNA-LAS (which some say was used solely for slot-squatting) is a goner. Where are the other DL mainline reductions coming from - ATL, MSP, SLC, or a mix?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

Yes Horizon was on the waiting list, but declined when they came to the top.
But ultimately AS has continued to shrink its footprint at LA airports over the years, so I guess this move is par for the course.


Regarding SWA, they actually use more slots then they hold. The County has let them "loan" vacant slot positions. They picked up one that way during June also.
At the end of the day it seems SWA is committed to taking any available slot and making use of it. Good for them.


For AA, airlines can and do change schedules all the time. Just in the case of AS, DL and F9 they opted to do so far ahead here.
Nothing stops AA from changing things at SNA as it works it way through the BK process. Anyhow AA is much smaller at SNA today then it ever was. Only a few years back they had almost 30 departures.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7149 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Weren't there rumors that AA would go down from 12 flights a day at SNA to eight (5 DFW/3 ORD) and close the Admirals Club at SNA? This should stop those rumors.

Yeah - that seemed highly implausible, considering that from what I've heard AA does quite well on the DFW-SNA route with lots of high-yielding traffic in particular moving over DFW heading east.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Anyhow AA is much smaller at SNA today then it ever was. Only a few years back they had almost 30 departures.

Yes. No more MD80s to LAS/SFO/SJC/RNO and then ERJs to SFO/SJC. Frankly a smart move, as AA never had a shot of making money in those markets. A daily 737 to MIA might work, though.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6861 times:

southwest seems to be doing at SNA what jetblue is doing at LGB. Gobble up any slots when possible.

Will be interesting to see where Delta makes the cuts. They could upsize pretty easily on a few flights and not really change the number of seats if they wanted to. Delta has a pretty sizeable operation to consider in LGB also from SLC so that could just be too many seats in too close an area and they want to try to increase yields?


User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

It appears that in April 2013 (4/8/13, to be exact) WN is using all 54 of their slots:

DEN: 4x WN
HOU: 1x WN
LAS: 1x FL, 8x WN
MDW: 1x WN
MEX: 1x FL
OAK: 8x WN
PHX: 7x WN
SFO: 1x FL, 6x WN
SJC: 8x WN
SJD: 1x FL
SMF: 7x WN

Do you think the county will loan them more? Or will they have to wait for other airlines to give up slots before expanding?


User currently offlinemcmax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6680 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
Yeah - that seemed highly implausible, considering that from what I've heard AA does quite well on the DFW-SNA route with lots of high-yielding traffic in particular moving over DFW heading east.

FWIW, the AAngels in the Admiral's Club at SNA have always said they have not heard of any rumors of closing SNA's Admirals Club, and (as I've heard repeated often elsewhere) that SNA has the highest proportion of ExPlats/Plats/Gold outside of an AA hub. Whether that is true or not, and whether the AAngels have access to that information or not--I don't know. But, I'm hoping there's some semblance of truth to it as it gives me hope that my home airport will contain to keep its Admiral's Club.



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 6):
Delta has a pretty sizeable operation to consider in LGB also from SLC so that could just be too many seats in too close an area and they want to try to increase yields?

Honestly, I expect that DL's LGB-SLC service is a not-so-subtle message to B6 that DL will defend the hub at SLC.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
At the end of the day it seems SWA is committed to taking any available slot and making use of it. Good for them.

I'm surprise we haven't heard any whining about how it's so unfair that Southwest has been able to increase its slot portfolio at SNA.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Weren't there rumors that AA would go down from 12 flights a day at SNA to eight (5 DFW/3 ORD) and close the Admirals Club at SNA? This should stop those rumors.

I don't think those rumors are entirely out-of-line. In the end, if AA intends to operate a cornerstone hub at LAX, the SNA service becomes increasingly marginalized. AA has historically had a strong customer base at SNA thanks to the AirCal acquisition 25 years ago, but the gradual dismantling of that operation makes loyalty to the AA brand & product less valuable. If AA can't get you to the Bay Area, Phoenix, or Vegas then they're a lot less useful to many passengers.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
I don't think those rumors are entirely out-of-line.

I think they are - at least about AA dramatically reducing their SNA schedule (although I personally think the SNA AC is safe, too).

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
In the end, if AA intends to operate a cornerstone hub at LAX, the SNA service becomes increasingly marginalized.

Not at all. SNA and LAX are not the same market. They may share some overlaps in demand, but they are two distinct customer sets, and SNA alone attracts a very large amount of high-yielding business traffic from the many wealthy residents and large corporations with a presence in OC.

The proximity of SNA to LAX is, in this case, irrelevant. If it were, AA wouldn't have maintained their 9-10 daily DFW-SNA flights alongside their 18-20 daily DFW-LAX flights for this long. Obviously there's a market at SNA.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
AA has historically had a strong customer base at SNA thanks to the AirCal acquisition 25 years ago, but the gradual dismantling of that operation makes loyalty to the AA brand & product less valuable.

AA's historically strong presence at SNA has essentially nothing to do with AirCal 25 years ago. AA's franchise at SNA consisted for most of the 1990s of flights to DFW and ORD. It then also included flights to SFO and SJC for a relatively short period of less than 10 years in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and to RNO and LAS for an even shorter period.

The core of AA's presence at SNA has - for decades - been DFW and ORD, and that is the way it will remain. The "dismantling" of AA's network from SNA to the ex-Reno Air destinations in the last 10-12 years didn't seem to harm the "value" of the AA brand at SNA based on the still-very-strong schedule AA has to DFW and ORD. It just meant that AA was no longer a viable competitor in the intra-west O&D market.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
If AA can't get you to the Bay Area, Phoenix, or Vegas then they're a lot less useful to many passengers.

  

Because every passenger - especially every high-yielding business passenger - flying in and out of SNA are going to "the Bay Area, Phoenix or Vegas?" Please.

AA has long had a very strong franchise in SNA - with or without nonstops to SFO, SJC, RNO or LAS - based on the very large volume of high-yielding local customers moving to the eastern half of the U.S., to say nothing of international connections, for which DFW and ORD are perfectly-located hubs.

There's more to the SNA air market than "the Bay Area, Phoenix [and] Vegas."


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6540 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 6):
southwest seems to be doing at SNA what jetblue is doing at LGB. Gobble up any slots when possible.

Yes Southwest has done very well at SNA, and broader California imo.

SWA has been the #1 carrier in the state in enplanments and #1 in at all California airports it serves besides LAX and SFO where it still has good sized operations.

The SWA model suits California extremely well, and imo they successfully replaced the much loved local PSA and AirCal franchises in peoples hearts and minds.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 7):
Do you think the county will loan them more? Or will they have to wait for other airlines to give up slots before expanding?

The County holds a few slots back unallocated. The last two years they tended to loan them out during the back half of the year around June. So yes its quite possible SWA will be able to use a few more for the summer.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
I'm surprise we haven't heard any whining about how it's so unfair that Southwest has been able to increase its slot portfolio at SNA.

Ha ha. Yes I suppose some don't like it, however all SWA is doing is standing in line with its hands open as others carriers vacate slots or pass on the opportunity to grow themselves.

All 100% legit. No reason why other airlines cant up their game at SNA if they so desire.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 9):
if AA intends to operate a cornerstone hub at LAX, the SNA service becomes increasingly marginalized.

  

AA has marginalized all its LA basin service to focus on LAX. Gone competely is BUR. ONT is down to mere 3 flights for the winter. Looking back even further gone is LGB also.

SNA mere 3 years ago from AA was sitting at 29 departures at SNA.

From Summer 2009 schedule:
AUS - 1x 738
ORD - 4x 757
DFW - 10x 738
SFO - 5x ERD
SJC - 6x ERD, 2x M80
STL - 1x M80

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
Because every passenger - especially every high-yielding business passenger - flying in and out of SNA are going to "the Bay Area, Phoenix or Vegas?" Please.

I think his point stands.

The largest O&D markets from SNA are to the Bay Area, Vegas and Phoenix. So a local is more apt to look to get to SFO from SNA than DFW, and a carrier like Southwest will answer the call. Sure AA has a place for those looking to go East, however that is a smaller overall market at the end of the day. Simply put AA is not an option for a huge portion of OC flyers now as its SNA network has continued to shrink.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFedExFlyerPHL From United States of America, joined May 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5993 times:

I'm still waiting on US to add a PHL n/s. I gotta think between the O/D and connections to the NE, Florida and Europe, it should work.

Jeff



ABE ATL AUA AUS BHM BOS BUR BWI CLT DFW EWR HOU IAD JAN JAX LAX LGB MEM MCI MCO MDW MGW MSP MSY ORD PHL PIT SJU SNA STL
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
I think they are - at least about AA dramatically reducing their SNA schedule (although I personally think the SNA AC is safe, too).

Phew, thank God. I was really worried about that one. Now I'll be able to sleep tonight.

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
Not at all. SNA and LAX are not the same market. They may share some overlaps in demand, but they are two distinct customer sets, and SNA alone attracts a very large amount of high-yielding business traffic from the many wealthy residents and large corporations with a presence in OC.

The proximity of SNA to LAX is, in this case, irrelevant. If it were, AA wouldn't have maintained their 9-10 daily DFW-SNA flights alongside their 18-20 daily DFW-LAX flights for this long. Obviously there's a market at SNA.

So your logic here is that SNA must be a different market than LAX because AA has kept 9 flights per day to DFW? That's a logical fallacy known as "begging the question." You write decently well, so I think you know what that means.

In any case, if SNA has a "distinct customer set" and has "very large amount of high-yielding business traffic from the many wealthy residents and large corporations with a presence in the OC," why is DL giving back slots? (Care to quantify instead of generalizing?) And before you say DFW is a more convenient connecting point to Garden City, Kansas than Atlanta, tell me, which "high-yielding" points east are these people from Newport Beach really going to?

I guess the main point you're trying to make (as you do in every post) is that people just like flying AA, unconditionally.


User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5753 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Southwest keeps growing – allocated its 54th slot – up 5 from 2012 allocation.

This was not as large of an increase as it may appear (49 to 54). WN has been operating 47-49 flights for most of 2012. In June when they added the FL flying it increase their total to 53. So in all reality the increase was only one flight. Now maybe this it what the OP was alluding to with the "The County has let them "loan" vacant slot positions". Regaurdless it a pretty impressive number oh flights. Of the 118.6 mainline (includes cargo) flights allocated WN will have 54 or 45% of the daily departures.



WW


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
Because every passenger - especially every high-yielding business passenger - flying in and out of SNA are going to "the Bay Area, Phoenix or Vegas?" Please.

Nice job of failing to understand the difference between "many" (my word) and "every" (your word). The fact remains that it becomes more difficult to retain loyalty among OC business travelers when AA simply doesn't offer service -- connecting or non-stop -- to several of the top destinations from SNA.

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
AA's franchise at SNA consisted for most of the 1990s of flights to DFW and ORD. It then also included flights to SFO and SJC for a relatively short period of less than 10 years in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and to RNO and LAS for an even shorter period.

Ahhh I had forgotten that AA had scaled back at SNA once before.

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
The proximity of SNA to LAX is, in this case, irrelevant. If it were, AA wouldn't have maintained their 9-10 daily DFW-SNA flights alongside their 18-20 daily DFW-LAX flights for this long. Obviously there's a market at SNA.

Proximity to LAX is quite relevant; reducing frequency would indeed marginalize the SNA operation. But AA does have a bit of history in doing just that in stations near its hubs & focus cities.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):

I guess that means SNA-LAS (which some say was used solely for slot-squatting) is a goner. Where are the other DL mainline reductions coming from - ATL, MSP, SLC, or a mix?
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 6):

Will be interesting to see where Delta makes the cuts. They could upsize pretty easily on a few flights and not really change the number of seats if they wanted to. Delta has a pretty sizeable operation to consider in LGB also from SLC so that could just be too many seats in too close an area and they want to try to increase yields?

ATL-SNA is going from 5x 73W to 3x 75X. Also the 1 slots from CVG/DTW/JFK/LAS-SNA.



yep.
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):
ATL-SNA is going from 5x 73W to 3x 75X. Also the 1 slots from CVG/DTW/JFK/LAS-SNA.

Which was essentially the schedule to ATL prior to the 73Ws coming online a few years ago, correct?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Delta is permanently returning 3 slots.

I guess that means SNA-LAS (which some say was used solely for slot-squatting) is a goner.

DL flew SNA-LAS?? I absolutely HATE when people say the "Delta Dartboard" but I think it might actually apply in this case. Weird... that seems like it would be a strong WN route



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5105 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
DL flew SNA-LAS??

ha ha, yes

Delta Commence SNA-LAS Service (by LAXintl Nov 22 2010 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7129 posts, RR: 87
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

I remember using AA on AUS-SNA back in the day. That didn't last very long. WN owns SNA.   

User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

The SkyWest CRJ900's in SNA for DL are operated as commerical, not commuter allocations. Everything 70 seats or less fall into the commuter category and passengers allotments.

User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
Nice job of failing to understand the difference between "many" (my word) and "every" (your word). The fact remains that it becomes more difficult to retain loyalty among OC business travelers when AA simply doesn't offer service -- connecting or non-stop -- to several of the top destinations from SNA.

Even if they did, the costs of the tickets and parking are outrageous. I know several people that used to live in Costa Mesa and would routinely drive to LAX because the fares and parking were a lot less.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 17):

No its a cut. It was 5x 752 then it went 5x 73W. I guess they are just going to flow more over SLC/MSP (both of which could be upgraded more if needed)

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):

Yes. It was for slot sitting.....Its likely the shortest route Delta could do(and maybe make a little money on)



yep.
User currently offlineasteriskceo From United States of America, joined May 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

WN is adding HOU and I expect FL to add ATL as their MEX & SJD "feeders" from SFO & LAS are essentially just repositioning flights considering the loads.

25 LAXintl : Small update. County Board approved the 2013 slot grants. The only two airlines on the waiting list - Horizon and Sun Country both declined award. Cou
26 BoeingGuy : Why doesn't AS start QX service SJC-SNA? Seems like that's a well trafficked route that needs some competition. WN has a monopoly. Seems like it woul
27 LAXintl : I'm not sure how 3 x Q400 flights would do against 9 SWA 737s. AS dropped all its LA basin - Bay Area flights over the years sans SJC-LAX which hangs
28 iowaman : It is interesting how basically every airline is not interested in growth and would rather reduce flights besides WN, who keeps adding at any chance.
29 mariner : Remove Southwest from the equation, and something seems to have changed. Ten years ago, getting slots at SNA was like finding hen's teeth - very diff
30 HPRamper : I think a 319 would do just fine. Maybe just the desire of the others to consolidate at LAX as much as possible. The slew of recent mergers might als
31 BoeingGuy : US did do SNA-PHL for a short time several years ago with an A319.
32 Post contains images TWA772LR : Irvine, Anaheim, Santa Ana, Riverside, Huntington Beach, Lake Arrowhead, Disneyland, etc... Basically anywhere between Huntington Beach to the north,
33 jporterfi : Pardon my ignorance, but how can an airline have 6/10 of a slot? As I understand it, a slot is one takeoff/landing pair per day, correct? Does this m
34 enilria : Frontier fought very hard for that 4th slot. Typical... WN will take all they can get and the ways things are going will own the whole airport.
35 mariner : I don't recall the "battle" being particularly hard but I won't argue the toss. The past is irrelevant. That was then and this is now - and a new CEO
36 iowaman : I believe that is correct. Now that WN is probably in more control of fares than anyone else, maybe yields aren't as good as they use to be? There ha
37 Post contains links and images mariner : That could be. Here's what it was, in 1989: http://articles.latimes.com/1989-03-05/business/fi-151_1_john-wayne "Battle for John Wayne's Golden Slots
38 gustywinds : I found SNA to be expensive the last time I was there. The rental car agent said their charges were higher than other airports. Have the costs increas
39 southwest737500 : US should try CLT-SNA on a A319
40 HPRamper : Yes. The cargo carriers operate modified schedules on the weekends. Some days that means an inbound but no outbound, or vice versa.
41 LAXintl : I believe SY is looking for a local anchor station outside of LAX. They recently applied for the LGB slot lottery but came up empty. Being heavily le
42 enilria : Just to be clear, the F9 DEN schedule (departures) is down 22% for this April over last April. If they maintain profitability by shrinking 22% every
43 mariner : It may be grim to you but - apparently and as in the last Frontier thread - Frontier is headed for it's first full year profit in ten years. It hasn'
44 Post contains links lightsaber : The real estate bubble popped. No longer is it possible to hit the 'home ATM' with an easy loan to finance an extravagant lifestyle. Orange county al
45 enilria : Like having a hub in Denver? Keep in mind that we have been in a "bubble" where the E190s and E145s have been removed from the F9 P/L which is very f
46 Post contains links mariner : I don't see the point in any debate because (a) this isn't a thread about Frontier and (b) and you will always dump on anything Frontier does - or an
47 GentFromAlaska : We should keep in mind that near-by COS has grown significantly in the same timeline which is some of that 39%.
48 travelin man : There are just far fewer airlines today in existence, and "battling" for slots doesn't make sense any more. No more CO, NW, TW, etc etc etc. In terms
49 usflyguy : Significantly? A couple of flights that run a few times a week is significant?
50 GentFromAlaska : You have to compare apples with apples. if you look beyond the seasonal routes and across the across the timeline specified. COS to BLI, LAX, MCO, PH
51 LAXintl : Indeed. The industry landscape has changed, namely the number of players involved and their network focus. In the past everyone wanted a toe in an ai
52 Post contains images Asteriskceo : Apparently they are marketing it as bay service, as well.
53 SANFan : It's that damned San Andreas fault... must have shifted again and nobody noticed! LOL! bb
54 Mainliner : Also with a 757.
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