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AA Up To 30 Rows Of Seats On 757 Not Secured  
User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 23986 times:

First story on the news on Channel 4 news in Dallas is that there have been seats have been coming loose on the 757s. It has happened on a few flights and up to 30 rows were not secured on one plane.

Here is a video.
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/video?clipId...opVideoCatNo=237008&autoStart=true

Maintenance for AA says it could be from outsourcing. Something doesn't seem right here...

[Edited 2012-10-01 16:08:59]


Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 23977 times:

Just saw this on News12 Long Island.

Things just keep getting worse for AA....I know it's not a big thing per say, but I guarantee those passengers from the flight are wondering about AA's overall mainentance. Honestly I know I am.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 23925 times:

The TWU blamed a contractor. American says its a problem with a type of seat, and not whether Union AA workers or outsourced non union workers installed them. If management is correct, then the Union was no better at spotting a design defect in the seat than was the contractor.

User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 23453 times:

There could be several issues here. The fasteners are faulty, flawed or not up to specifications. They are being under/over toured, causing failures. Those in stalling the seats are not following proper instructions or they are flawed. You have workers installing the seats not doing their jobs perhaps as paid cheap. Poor supervision of installation workers.

User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 23427 times:

Quoting milesrich (Reply 2):
If management is correct, then the Union was no better at spotting a design defect in the seat than was the contractor.

I was gonna say....even if it was the contractors' fault, the mechanics should have noticed it.


User currently offlinefoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 748 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22969 times:

Sounds like the Unions tactics are going to start hurting people.......

Andrew



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22850 times:

What do you expect when you have a bunch of people who are NOT FAA certified to do maintenance work...do maintenance work?

There is no reason maintenance work on an airplane registered in the US not to have the maintenance done in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnH_GRPocsU


User currently offlinedaviation From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22827 times:

Where is Flighty to scold us all for saying such destructive things?!?!

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 22710 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
There is no reason maintenance work on an airplane registered in the US not to have the maintenance done in the US.

There are good points to be made about outsourced m/x, but this is not one of them. There is plenty of high quality m/x done overseas (and plenty of lousy maintenance done in the States, like the elevator rigging job on the ZV bird that crashed in CLT).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22575 times:

The union seems to forget they caused the crAAsh of Flight 191 at O'Hare. I love hearing all this crAAp about out sourced work.

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22553 times:

Are we sure this isn't sabotage by rogue employees who think they are helping the union? When you have thousands of disgruntled employees, there are bound to be a few misguided ones.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineaerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4683 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 22390 times:

Sabotage shouldn't be ruled out. How long does this go on before safety is compromised and criminal actions occur?


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22011 times:

Interestingly, the new 757 seats are a customized version of the Weber 5751 designed by Weber for AA. Strangely, the new config 738s, which use the same model of seat, are not affected. Perhaps the tracks on the 738 are different than those on the 752.

Also, DL's Weber 5751s are not affected.

[Edited 2012-10-01 19:42:08]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7968 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22006 times:

Quoting CO777DAL (Thread starter):
Maintenance for AA says it could be from outsourcing. Something doesn't seem right here...

I've been hearing a lot of discrepancies with AA's maintenance staff. What's going on here? Is there monetary issues going on or something in this department?



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 21486 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):

Interestingly, the new 757 seats are a customized version of the Weber 5751 designed by Weber for AA. Strangely, the new config 738s, which use the same model of seat, are not affected. Perhaps the tracks on the 738 are different than those on the 752.

This is what I'm curious to know... are the affected aircraft ones that have been reconfigured with the new seats and/or were these aircraft recently reconfigured with MCE? The two incidents reported in the news involved rows that would have been affected by MCE. That could be the reason why this is suddenly popping up. I would wager it has far more to do with that than any kind of sabotage. Remember, AA mechanics put their family members on these airplanes every single day so it is highly, highly unlikely that they are compromising the safety of the a/c.

Who is doing the work on MCE? AA maintenance, or TIMCO?



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 21471 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 10):
The union seems to forget they caused the crAAsh of Flight 191 at O'Hare. I love hearing all this crAAp about out sourced work.

So by your faulty logic when a plane crashes due to pilot error and the pilot is in a union, it's the unions fault?... The union doesn't fly airplanes or turn wrenches..


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21221 times:
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Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):

And Pray Tell?? Just How would the mechanics have noticed this problem without a cabin Service Check Looking for that problem?? It's pretty Obvious You're Not a MECHANIC. Even at United where we outsource a LOT. If a vendor does something Shady or incorrectly as they do once in a great while , unless the problem is brought to light on a later inspection we would have NO WAY of knowing as none of us can See the outsourced work package to know WHAT the Vendors were working on. It's not OUR problem until it's reported where we have 2 choices, FIX it?? Or, route he airplane BACK to the vendor to rework what they screwed up in the first place.. And? That's not up TO the mechanic but senior management. The best We as mechanics can do is Drop a Dime to he FAA. But in even THAT a Mechanic could lose his Job so it's a crap shoot either way.


User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 20980 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 10):

The union seems to forget they caused the crAAsh of Flight 191 at O'Hare. I love hearing all this crAAp about out sourced work.

No, that was caused by the management who told maintenance personnel to use faulty procedures.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 20704 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 17):
And Pray Tell?? Just How would the mechanics have noticed this problem without a cabin Service Check Looking for that problem?? It's pretty Obvious You're Not a MECHANIC. Even at United where we outsource a LOT. If a vendor does something Shady or incorrectly as they do once in a great while , unless the problem is brought to light on a later inspection we would have NO WAY of knowing as none of us can See the outsourced work package to know WHAT the Vendors were working on. It's not OUR problem until it's reported where we have 2 choices, FIX it?? Or, route he airplane BACK to the vendor to rework what they screwed up in the first place.. And? That's not up TO the mechanic but senior management. The best We as mechanics can do is Drop a Dime to he FAA. But in even THAT a Mechanic could lose his Job so it's a crap shoot either way.

Agreed..When I worked for NWA we used to get a/c from Dalfort in Dallas and I forget the name of the other place we did it in Dothan Ala. We would have so many write ups coming out of those places we would have to spend days working all the bugs out of them, sometimes weeks. But if the pilots didn't write it up we wouldn't find it until something happened much like the AA seat deal. But to be fair not all outsourcing equals bad maintenance. I have found the Asian and a lot of European MRO work to be quite good. Actually the MRO's in the US have the worst that I have seen in quality.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinedanielkandi From Denmark, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20513 times:

couldn't be bothered to read all of this, so sry if mentioned before... I just love how Fox always try to sensationalize "small" problems. I know it's unsafe, but still. And also interesting that they don't know their models at all... In the video "AA responds to seat problems" the 4m 30s video, a 737 with winglets is shown when they mention "it was on a plane like the model you see here bla bla.... Always so illinformed.


Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20436 times:
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Dang, what is it that y'all don't understand about aircraft maintenance? I am a line mech. who flies all over to fix out of service aircraft, my mother and father fly, my friends fly, YOU fly. There is not a conspiracy here. The statements some of y'all are making is that mechanics are criminals/murderers. Stop it already. You are stepping on my toes and my fellow mechanics toes.

Unions do not control our dedication to our craft. Never, ever. If it got bad enough I and all of us would just quit and go work somewhere else. I don't work for AA but if I did I would do my job exactly as specified by the maintenance manual and company procedures.

I have also worked at MROs. They do try to do things as cheap as possible, BUT they (the two I worked at) would never compromise the airworthiness of the aircraft or the safety of the folks flying on that aircraft.

As I said in another post, I've been in aircraft maintenance for 32 years. I have never seen a shortcut taken that would sacrifice safety.

This is NOT a situation of sabotage.


User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20438 times:

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 20):
couldn't be bothered to read all of this, so sry if mentioned before... I just love how Fox always try to sensationalize "small" problems. I know it's unsafe, but still. And also interesting that they don't know their models at all... In the video "AA responds to seat problems" the 4m 30s video, a 737 with winglets is shown when they mention "it was on a plane like the model you see here bla bla.... Always so illinformed.

It's not just FOX all the news networks pretty much get it wrong..Kind of amazes me that they most of them do not have have a real expert on staff that know a/c and aviation since aviation can be so newsworthy especially in an incident or accident. Cracks me up when I will pick on FOX for now they go to Jon Scott who has a private pilots license as their expert. But to be fair they all do it.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7968 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20416 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 18):
No, that was caused by the management who told maintenance personnel to use faulty procedures.

How do you tell them to intentionally use procedures that don't work?

And what's your source?



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 672 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19138 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
What do you expect when you have a bunch of people who are NOT FAA certified to do maintenance work...do maintenance work?

...Yes, there are other aviation authorities besides the FAA, you know...

Quoting T prop (Reply 16):
So by your faulty logic when a plane crashes due to pilot error

AA 191 was due to pilot error... You learn something new every day! (Are you getting confused with the A300?)



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19513 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 24):
AA 191 was due to pilot error... You learn something new every day! (Are you getting confused with the A300?)

He is talking about your logic. If AA191 which indeed crashed because of incorrect maintenance procedures was fault of the union where those maintenance personnel belonged to, are also crashes caused by pilot error fault of pilots union?



"A rational army would run away"
25 Post contains links and images timaay419 : Ouch! Uploaded with ImageShack.us
26 Revo1059 : Uhh, I'm pretty sure an engine falling off started that chain of events Maintenance blames the contractor, of course because if you are not in the un
27 windy95 : It is not the seat it is the installer. There is no design defect. No one else has problems with this seat. These 757's probably all have one thing i
28 TrnsWrld : I hope your joking man!! AA191 crashed due to pilot error? really? Im not even going to get into the details about that crash. Very sad that an aviat
29 charlienorth : The procedure they used was based on AA and FAA approved procedures.
30 pvjin : If you look more closely you can see that he just misunderstood earlier post and did not mean that AA191 would really have been caused by pilot error
31 Post contains images charlienorth : As a tech for a competing airline I would have no problem flying on an AA jet.
32 tonytifao : Really? All of a sudden seats become unsecured???? hummm. multiple flights within a week? There have been multiple 757s (at least 20 prior to june) an
33 falstaff : That very well could be true. You may have people who installed the seats correctly but the fastener is not up to par. I have seen faulty tools and p
34 soon7x7 : If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...it's probably some disgrunteled employees...Stranger things have happened. Did anyone check Ahmadineja
35 falstaff : It could be, but I doubt it is organized or sanctioned by the union or any large group of employees. When you have labor action you want to show how
36 XFSUgimpLB41X : I'm sure they can find a way to blame this on the pilots, too.
37 Post contains images PHX787 : The Cameraman or AA? Now that is quite outrageous. I think it's a number of things....which people refuse to acknowledge themselves when they know th
38 norcal : If it was somehow caught by a pilot before the flight and written up everyone here would be screaming bloody murder because the flight was "delayed f
39 soon7x7 : Outsourcing itself may contribute to angst among employees/management. Has before...
40 Post contains links flyhossd : How? Has this been conclusively tied to any AA union member? AFAIK, it hasn't. Thank you, pvjin. He said "faulty." There is a difference. AA (and oth
41 norcal : Ok, but if it turns out the seats were installed incorrectly by outsourced maintenance how is that the fault of AA maintenance? I know it's A-net so
42 26point2 : Don't know who's at fault any more than the next guy but the timing of the loose-seat debacle certainly seems curious...no?
43 HAWK21M : Find it tough to believe that 30 seats were wrongly fitted or not locked in the track.This would have shown up immedietly on a check. Looks more like
44 deltadc9 : As if we need ANOTHER reason not to fly AA? This sounds like sabotage to me. Anything else seems a little far fetched.
45 Post contains images AA94 : ... another enlightened quote from spiritair97 ... You can't even rely on major news outlets for accurate aviation reporting, because all of them are
46 United727 : If I remember correctly, as far as the pilots are concerned for 191, it's been proved that they followed procedures "by the book" as far as how they
47 N737AA : Plenty of non-certified mechanics working at American Airlines, there is no FAR that requires it. The FAR's do require certain persons to be certifie
48 flyhossd : Yes, I've read the report, but in order to keep things straightforward, I generalized - perhaps too much so. As I recall, the FAA discovered other ai
49 Post contains links AA94 : AA has just announced the cause of the seat disconnect as a "faulty saddle clamp," and noted that these clamps are found on 47 757s currently flying.
50 ripcordd : I can tell you that it is not Sabotage by AA employees once again AA employees put their very own familes on those planes. I think the FAA will come
51 ikramerica : True, but a loose seat isn't exactly the most dangerous thing in the world. It's more likely to either be a nuisance or cause a cancelation, both of
52 aluminumtubing : This is just sensationalism by the media. Real surprise there. Just another beat up on AA story to sell ads. I am sure as well, that as soon as the FA
53 Cubsrule : This is an excellent point and why I think the "outsourced" versus "in house" maintenance distinction doesn't really have any place in this discussio
54 TrnsWrld : I have never hesitated taking myself and family on American Airlines aircraft and I will continue to use them if air travel is required. I wouldnt hes
55 norcal : Faulty saddle clamp from company PR department, I hope everyone who accused the TWU of sabotage offers an apology
56 aluminumtubing : The issue is not so much the outsourcing of maintenance in general. I have had a number of Fed's in the jumpseat who all agree that the big problem i
57 Cubsrule : Does West Virginia count as such a country? The last crash I'm aware of that was caused by outsourced m/x involved m/x done at HTS.
58 ripcordd : I betcha the faulty saddle clamp dosnt make the news and there are prob other airlines that have these faulty sadle clamps in use which will never mak
59 aluminumtubing : I didn't say all the problems are overseas. In fact, I don't think shipping maintenance to Lufthansa Technik would be a problem. There are obviously
60 santi319 : AA is the unsafest airline of the Americas...
61 ripcordd : And what are your facts to back this up? If your going to spout this s---t out back it up with facts
62 aluminumtubing : Would you be willing to provide an articulate explanation as to how you reached that conclusion? Inquiring minds want to know.
63 1337Delta764 : Interestingly, the new article states that it is unknown whether the seats are Weber 4000 or 5000 series. I presume the Weber 4000 series seats are th
64 AA94 : I am eagerly awaiting a response as to how you arrived at that conclusion ....
65 MD11Engineer : You are talking BS. In such a case the certifying staff has to ignore management orders and refuse to do the work illegally. After it is they whom ar
66 Post contains images lightsaber : I've been following this thread and am happy to see a root cause was found. Thankfully, due to computer records, they could know which seats had the
67 wjcandee : What are all these posts about "Fox News getting it wrong"? Hello?! Anybody home? I have NEVER seen as whiny, bitchy, complainy or just-plain-ignorant
68 ikramerica : Sounds plausible, or it was installed incorrectly due to AA's faulty procedure, and it causes the part to fail?
69 Post contains images AA94 : The wording of the statement specifically says "...saddle clamp improperly installed on the foot..." which leads me to believe that the part was (a)
70 ltbewr : In my earlier post, I questioned if there were faulty 'fasteners' or improper procedures of installation. This leads to further questions. Where were
71 ripcordd : santi319 sounds like you have a personel grudge against AA did they not hire you and you had to get a job with NK? cause this post here today and this
72 Post contains images T prop : Relax everyone, it's just some 13 year old kid trolling... santi319
73 spiritair97 : Nice. Before taking shots at me for my statement, I meant that the people who do the inspections of the aircraft should have noticed it if it was som
74 santi319 : Double post please delete[Edited 2012-10-02 21:34:46]
75 Post contains images santi319 : No, actually I have the best friends and family over at AA, that is why I never applied for a job for them, I know too much lol. And I am very very h
76 strfyr51 : they were reconfiguring the aircraft to ADD seats in Y class and got the seat track spacing wrong. Thats when they should have used the Foot extension
77 windy95 : Yes it does matter. If you do not know how it is done then perhaps then they should refrain from making guesses as to what went wrong. Faulty hardwar
78 N737AA : This is true, if I told my crew to do something that was not per the manual they would certainly question me and they would not do it plain and simpl
79 Post contains links 1337Delta764 : FYI, in this article: http://blog.apex.aero/cabin-interior...lamp-is-cause-of-757-seat-problem/ It states that the fastening system of the new seats a
80 737tdi : I wonder which airlines still allow this ? I understand the reasoning, who needs a A&P to overhaul seats, brakes, overhead bins, galleys? Also I
81 1337Delta764 : BTW, according to the current rumor, 20 rows of the old Weber seats were reconfigured on the affected aircraft.
82 strfyr51 : Nobody in management would be dumb enough to tell a mechanic to KNOWINGLY do slipshod work. (not anymore!) I have seen BAD overhauls where the airpla
83 crapper1 : I'm hoping it isn't workers screwing with the aircraft. It does seem like a simple thing to do that would be easy to find loose seats and will put the
84 1337Delta764 : FYI, reading further into the article that I posted, it looks like the affected seats are the OLD Weber seats after being reconfigured to MCE. Perhaps
85 RyanairGuru : Geez, chill out! That article wasn't even supposed to be serious, it was a [supposedly] humorous op-ed piece inserted on a weekend (aka a slow news d
86 HAWK21M : It looks to simple to be a faulty part........
87 n901wa : Some info for 1337Delta764, The Delta EC mods were done in house. with maybe the aircraft in Heavy Checks, being done when the seat were reinstalled,
88 danielkandi : It would actually make a great CSI New York episode. One disgruntled worker, a bit racist tired of seeing foreigners take over his good ol' american
89 kgaiflyer : Just curious. AA484 flying SAN-DFW lifted off late yesterday afternoon and then diverted to ABQ before arriving in DFW late. But the flight is listed
90 AA777 : Sabotage? Come on.
91 N737AA : AA484 SAN-DFW pushed back 1 min early, was "OFF" 8 mins later than plan, and diverted to ABQ due to Medical Emergency....yes it was an MD80. N737AA
92 kgaiflyer : Yet in the last three weeks, that one flight has departed late -- including 4 hrs 30 mins late Oct 2nd -- 14 different times. That's unreal.
93 JAAlbert : I labored through all the posts above and didn't see a one of you discussing the "coking" of the fasteners as contributing to the problem. "Coking" (a
94 737tdi : Actually I think this problem is being misunderstood and misreported. It is not a problem with coke/debris on the fasteners but this gunk is in the s
95 billreid : As much as I agree from a safety perspective. I do not agree from a value perspective. At present an AA seat priced at $400 is about equal to a $20 s
96 JAAlbert : Ah! Very interesting and enlightening. So to the extent that gunk build up is responsible, then somebody it seems didn't clean the tracks?
97 Post contains images 737tdi : It's a ongoing joke with us when we are replacing seats. "Hey, I got some peanut butter for my sandwich". It was even worse when we used to serve rai
98 HAWK21M : Why does Tech services not issue a call out to inspect the seat attachments a few hrs post installation.
99 MD11Engineer : What about miscommunication / bad handover during shift change? It seems to have become a trend to hire as few certifying people as possible (as few
100 Post contains images 737tdi : MD11/Engineer, Jan, if I may call you by your name? My name is Karl. I know exactly what you are speaking of when it comes to signing for other peopl
101 MD11Engineer : It is like lubing: A very important job, but one which doesn´t need much skills, just dilligence, and where you are likely to get yourself dirty. So
102 737tdi : Wow!!! See that's something that does not happen here. A mechanic gets an airplane and all of its faults whether its a lube or a MEC/HMU change???? W
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