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Firm: GOL To Purchase 60 737MAX  
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

I couldn't find this posted anywhere else.

http://seattletimes.com/html/boeinga...space/2019316423_gol737maxxml.html

Brazilian low-cost airline Gol on Monday announced a firm order for 60 of Boeing’s forthcoming 737 MAX jets featuring new fuel-efficient engines.

The order brings Boeing’s order tally for the MAX to 724. The company has said it aims to have 1,000 orders booked by year-end.

[Edited 2012-10-01 16:29:40]

[Edited 2012-10-01 16:30:05]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

Hope it includes some MAX-7 orders to launch that subtype.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6404 times:
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There was a thread, but it appears to have been deleted.

Boeing Press Release on the order - http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2431

This is an important order for Boeing in South America as Airbus has 75 A320neo orders in the region across a number of different carriers.


User currently offlineoksman From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
There was a thread, but it appears to have been deleted.

I saw that one, why was it deleted?

What about the 787? Any news on the speculated order to star long haul routes?


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6153 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 1):
Hope it includes some MAX-7 orders to launch that subtype.

  

Hopefully a 50/10 split, but I'll guess it'll be an all MAX 8 order.


User currently offlinejuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1169 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Awww they deleted my thread.

Good news for Boeing and Gol keep the orders comming.

Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5840 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 1):
Hope it includes some MAX-7 orders to launch that subtype.

GOL needs short field operations and with the weights on the MAX going up, the -7 might be needed for Rio and similar airports that have very short runways.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Wow, Latin America is proving to be a great place for Boeing. First the massive AM MAX order and now Gol's. Congrats to both Gol and Boeing!

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
GOL needs short field operations and with the weights on the MAX going up, the -7 might be needed for Rio and similar airports that have very short runways.

Yes CGH in Sao Paulo and SDU in Rio.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinevoar From Canada, joined Jul 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5163 times:

Even more important than the Short-field operations capability is the maximum wingspan at CGH. It cannot be bigger than the 737-800 or it won't fit in the gates there. Currently there is only about 3m distance between parked aircraft.

User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

I wonder when COPA will order the MAX. I thought we would see their order sooner given the long flights they make to deep South America.


avi8
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

First delivery in 2018
  

That is a very very long time to wait.


User currently offlinebrindabella From Australia, joined Apr 2010, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 1):
Hope it includes some MAX-7 orders to launch that subtype.

Really? 724 orders and not even one -7 yet?

Bill



Billy
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4389 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
the -7 might be needed for Rio and similar airports that have very short runways.

Interesting... But wouldn't it just make sense for GOL to keep their current 73Gs for those few airports? Leasing costs of the -7MAX will be higher due to expected poor resale.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 10):
First delivery in 2018

Appropriate for the MAX. Kudos to Boeing for such a long lead order. I'm sure there is flexibility for GOL.

Quoting brindabella (Reply 11):
724 orders and not even one -7 yet?

Every time Boeing has improved the engines on the 737, the prefered sub-type has grown. Why would leasing companies risk taking a poor resale version? The 73G and A319 resale values were already taking a hit as airlines shifted to the A320/738. There simply is not enough cost difference per flight to justify a smaller type.

With the JT8Ds, the 732 was the preferred length
With the CFM-3s, the 733 was the preferred length, not the 735 (732 length)
With the CFM-7s, the 738 is the dominant type, with the 736s being scrapped due to such low demand and reduced resale of the 73Gs.

With WN (and thus FL) going to the 738, where is the resale market for the -7MAX? I do not see it. If I were a bank VP or leasing VP, I wouldn't approve a loan on a 737-7MAX without a substantial down payment *and* an aggressive depreciation schedule. For that is the only way to make money on the type. Otherwise, the leasing and financing companies should stick with the far more liquid 738MAX/739MAX.

This shift to a longer length has happened every engine change on the 737. Why fight it? If GOL needs a smaller plane, the airline is large enough now to order a dedicated sub fleet. I doubt they will, but the current 73Gs can fill that role if the field is too short.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineodwyerpw From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Stretch the 7Max to be a true 149pax plane at 32" pitch - y class.

I guess you only do this if you think you will loose potential 7MAX sales to another competitors aircraft, rather than to the 8MAX.



Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3927 times:
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Quoting brindabella (Reply 11):
Really? 724 orders and not even one -7 yet?

With trip costs effectively the same, you're leaving money on the table flying a 737-7 instead of a 737-8.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
Quoting brindabella (Reply 11):
Really? 724 orders and not even one -7 yet?

With trip costs effectively the same, you're leaving money on the table flying a 737-7 instead of a 737-8.

The trip costs are close, but there is a difference. The marginal cost of the extra seats is low, but certainly not zero.

The biggest difference in favor of the -7 is that the 737-7 can takeoff from runways that a 737-8 can't or would be so weight restricted that the 737-7 has better economics.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3801 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Their problem is 2012, not 2018.

They shall use the funds to improve their product and try to launch a better "long haul" 738 product to tap markets in which there's real demand such as United States, Canada and the Caribbean.
This order will not help them today.

That's my 2c



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineglideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 10):

First delivery in 2018
  

That is a very very long time to wait.

" Good things come to those who wait ".   



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 9):
I wonder when COPA will order the MAX. I thought we would see their order sooner given the long flights they make to deep South America.

As soon as the MAX is starting to be delivered, any CM NG aircraft already in order or option will be a MAX.quote=Roseflyer,reply=15]The biggest difference in favor of the -7 is that the 737-7 can takeoff from runways that a 737-8 can't or would be so weight restricted that the 737-7 has better economics.[/quote]And the B737-600 can take off from even shorter runways fully loaded than both B737-700 and -800.

Should G3 financial status be of some concern for Boeing or G3 itself?
60 B737MAX isn't a couple of aircraft.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2875 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
They shall use the funds to improve their product and try to launch a better "long haul" 738 product to tap markets in which there's real demand such as United States, Canada and the Caribbean.

Suppose they set up an international hub in Northern Brazil (Manaus). The longer range 737-800 would only be able to reach Southern Florida (MIA, FLL, MCO). The rest of the U.S (LAX, IAH, JFK) would not reachable with a 737 MAX. That might be why some people were expecting a 787 order

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
This order will not help them today

agree. at least It will give their stock price a good jolt upwards


User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting brindabella (Reply 11):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 1):
Hope it includes some MAX-7 orders to launch that subtype.

Really? 724 orders and not even one -7 yet?

No launch customer fot the MAX-7 yet. It will not enter service until 2019 though, after the -8 and -9.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
With WN (and thus FL) going to the 738, where is the resale market for the -7MAX? I do not see it. If I were a bank VP or leasing VP, I wouldn't approve a loan on a 737-7MAX without a substantial down payment *and* an aggressive depreciation schedule. For that is the only way to make money on the type.

I would agree with your point if we were in say 2017 (5 years from now) but it's early days yet. Once a large/marquis customer has ordered the -7, leasing companies will be more willing to finance -7 orders. Of course.....Boeing still needs the initial -7 order to kickstart the subtype.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinevatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
With the JT8Ds, the 732 was the preferred length
With the CFM-3s, the 733 was the preferred length, not the 735 (732 length)
With the CFM-7s, the 738 is the dominant type, with the 736s being scrapped due to such low demand and reduced resale of the 73Gs.

With the preferred length increasing, could we some day see a MAX-10? How much farther can the 737 platform be stretched before significant structural changes are required that would make a clean-sheet design more cost-effective?



Visited VA,NC,PA,SC,FL,GA,OH,AL,TX,TN,CO,CA,UT,NV,NM,IN,KY,MD,MO,CT,MA,NH,ME.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2126 times:
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Quoting yyz717 (Reply 20):
Once a large/marquis customer has ordered the -7, leasing companies will be more willing to finance -7 orders. Of course.....Boeing still needs the initial -7 order to kickstart the subtype.

To a degree. That didn't save 736 resale values. The reality is that the cost difference, per flight between a 738MAX and 73GMAX is too little to justify the smaller type. But hey, I hope to be proven wrong!    For a liquid -7 resale market, there must be 20 airlines flying the type. I do not see that happening. Thus, my opinion on why leasing companies will avoid the type.

For example, Lyon air switched from the 739ER to the 738 due to its superior resale value impacting their operating costs. Now that the 739ER is doing better, I expect them to switch back (if they haven't already).

Quoting vatveng (Reply 21):
With the preferred length increasing, could we some day see a MAX-10? How much farther can the 737 platform be stretched before significant structural changes are required that would make a clean-sheet design more cost-effective?

The issue is takeoff performance. I speculate that the 737-9 is shorter than the A321 for that reason. The plane must be designed around tail strikes and that limits runway performance. There might be a small stretch of the -9, but not enough that I would concern myself. I expect the -9 to *eventually* outsell the -8MAX. But when? Eventually is a long time frame.   


I'm more concerned on when we see a TATL range high MTOW 738MAX.   

Quoting g500 (Reply 19):
The rest of the U.S (LAX, IAH, JFK) would not reachable with a 737 MAX.

I'm hearing rumors of a 3900nm+ range 738MAX. That might help a bit.   


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1975 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
I'm hearing rumors of a 3900nm+ range 738MAX. That might help a bit.

well then Northern Brazil to Texas and California will be within reach of the MAX


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