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AA Cancellations Continue - Part II  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14016 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Considering the first thread reached more than 300 posts (and at this stage it makes life of users with low speed internet connections very hard), and considering the subject still retain interest with over 30 posts last 24 hours, we are opening a new thread for discussions to continue

Link to the previous one:

AA Cancellations Continue (by NWADTWE16 Sep 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)



Please continue to enjoy the website,

Felipe
Forum Moderator


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13972 times:

So what seems to be the main issue this time which is propagating the issues? I was away from A.net for about 10 days and my connection speed doesn't let me load the other thread well.

It seems to be that the issues haven't gotten much better.

Anyone have news sources talking about the issue?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13889 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
It seems to be that the issues haven't gotten much better.

They've improved slightly, these past couple of days have averaged at about 60%+ on time which is significantly better than what it was a week ago. And we're no closer to knowing precisely what the root cause is, the narratives provided by the various factions on the other thread are unchanged ... probably because they all have a grain of truth in them (or so my lay-observer eyes read the competing posts)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13628 times:

With the issues with the seats not staying bolted now being reported by the mainstream media....is this actually going to strengthen APA's position that all these write ups are in the interest of safety and that the feds are watching? You would think it is.

User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13612 times:

The irony here is that if AA goes under, who is ever going to hire a AA pilot from "the last days"?

HR person: "Oh I see here that you were a pilot at AA when they went chapter 7, who is your buddy who got this past the autodelete function? We here at reasonable airlines taxi at normal speeds and write up MX issues when noticed, not 5 minutes after leaving the gate. So please, leave now and maybe if you move fast enough security will get a little workout trying to keep up to make sure you don't take any stationary on your way out!"

Its clear that working for AA isn't THAT bad, after all when all those awesome high paying jobs in the middle east, asia, and other parts... AA still has pilots working for them. WN hasn't stolen all the 737 pilots with their top of the industry pay. Heck someone here did a comparison and found that many people could make more at WN in a couple years than sticking with thier decade plus at thier current airline.

I'll tell you the exact instant when I knew AA pilots were the anchor that was going to drag AA to the bottom of the sea. The day when AA asked them to approve work rules for flights over 12hrs and the Pilots told AA to pound sand. Thats right, AA wanted more pilots to do more work and the pilots union came back and said "nah, we are just fine where we are. you don't pay us enough so we might strike at any time, but we don't need to work more or have more pilots flying"

Since then been plenty of comedy with the various bits about how they don't get paid enough to make ends meet, which is usualy right around the same time that AA is asking them to raise the minimum hours from the industry low, or some study showing the horrid AA pilot productivity.

I just feel bad for all the other AA employees and shareholders who have gotten the shaft due to AA pilots refusing to agree to the same basic work rules as other airline pilots. For refusing to work with the management to be flexible and grow so that AA might employ more pilots flying to more places instead of fewer to less. For working harder to put AA out of business than they do to keep AA in.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5242 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13102 times:

XT6Wagon:

The interesting thing is that I know some AA pilots who work very hard every month to pick up an extra trip, because the vast majority of lines don't have enough hours.

I can't remember if it was prior to the concessions or 2003 or 9/11, but a typical 757/767 domestic line had 72 to 75 hours. After the concessions, it was down to between 65 to 68 hours. This may have been management's way of trying to reduce the number of furloughs.

Needless to say, a lot of pilots started picking up extra trips, in order to blunt the effects of the wage rate cuts.

So, if APA were to agree to increasing minimum hours, it would make pilots in the middle of the seniority list and higher happy, because they would earn more. But for those near the bottom, it could very well increase the risk of getting furloughed, especially if the U.S. economy slips into another recession.

By the way, the pilots tied the extra long flying to a new contract. They were willing to fly more than 12 hours, if they had a new collective bargaining agreement. But, as long as the pilots were working under the old agreement, then no extra long flying.

Of course, this just shows how airlines should be removed from the RLA (or federal mediators should be far more willing to declare an impasse). Contract negotiations shouldn't drag on for five years after the end of a contract with no right to self help.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12825 times:

AA ended Monday with 19 cancellations (does not include the precancels from the trimmed schedule) - and mere 57% ontime arrivals rate.

So far at 10am central have 14 cancels today.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12798 times:
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How much of this improvement in completion factors is due to the new month re-starting the monthly hourly limit for flight crews?. Supposedly AA has 10% less pilots active this year than this time last year so I am assuming that around the 25th or 26th of each month a lot of pilots start hitting their monthly hourly limits? I remember Northwest used to have some of these issues near the end of each month during the busy summer flying season and would have to cancel some flights because of shortage of crews?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11469 times:

I have flown 103,356 miles on AA since January 1st of this year and have never had issues, until now. Starting to wonder whether I should start taking my business elsewhere...I love AA and out of the 103,356 miles I've flown this year I have had 0 cancelled flights and can count on one hand the number of times I've been significantly delayed.

However, over the past couple of weeks, every single one of my flights is delayed quite significantly...I would hate to have to start flying another airline after all these years of being loyal to AA...but am really starting to think about it now.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11308 times:

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 8):
I have flown 103,356 miles on AA since January 1st of this year and have never had issues, until now. Starting to wonder whether I should start taking my business elsewhere...I love AA and out of the 103,356 miles I've flown this year I have had 0 cancelled flights and can count on one hand the number of times I've been significantly delayed.

However, over the past couple of weeks, every single one of my flights is delayed quite significantly...I would hate to have to start flying another airline after all these years of being loyal to AA...but am really starting to think about it now.

I don't think you're alone and if I was in management at AA, you'd be my greatest nightmare - losing a loyal customer who's traveled over 100k miles only 10 months into the year. I'm sure others are contemplating their moves right now to other carries as we speak... as Delta and UA are grinning ear-to-ear right now and eagerly awaiting those moves   


User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
The irony here is that if AA goes under, who is ever going to hire a AA pilot from "the last days"?

Didn't keep anyone from hiring exEA pilots.....many work at AA today :-/

N737AA


User currently offlinepanpan From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

Quoting N737AA (Reply 10):
Didn't keep anyone from hiring exEA pilots.....many work at AA today :-/

How close is American to being in the same kind of situation that turned Eastern's ch11 into a ch7? I don't know enough about either circumstance to know.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10718 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
The irony here is that if AA goes under, who is ever going to hire a AA pilot from "the last days"?

...pretty much anybody.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
HR person: "Oh I see here that you were a pilot at AA when they went chapter 7, who is your buddy who got this past the autodelete function? We here at reasonable airlines taxi at normal speeds and write up MX issues when noticed, not 5 minutes after leaving the gate. So please, leave now and maybe if you move fast enough security will get a little workout trying to keep up to make sure you don't take any stationary on your way out!"

AA pilots are being extra cautious because they're under increased scrutiny from the FAA and now that there's no contract, the company won't do anything in their defense if they're found to have even a minor violation. I highly doubt this scenario will play out.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10719 times:
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Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 8):
Starting to wonder whether I should start taking my business elsewhere...

My employer is thinking the same thing. Despite our contract, embargo on all AA flights unless it is a code-share operated by another carrier.

Not to send a message or anything, AA isn't our primary carrier and I don't believe anyone is under any illusion it'll even be noticed (other than our AA rep perhaps), it's only intended to try and keep employees from getting caught in this mess.

[Edited 2012-10-02 14:17:37]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10582 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
The irony here is that if AA goes under, who is ever going to hire a AA pilot from "the last days"?

Well my company hired quite a few ex-Eastern pilots from "the last days," and I know tons more at (or retired from) other carriers, in the FAA, and other respectable, responsible jobs.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
HR person: "Oh I see here that you were a pilot at AA when they went chapter 7, who is your buddy who got this past the autodelete function? We here at reasonable airlines taxi at normal speeds and write up MX issues when noticed, not 5 minutes after leaving the gate. So please, leave now and maybe if you move fast enough security will get a little workout trying to keep up to make sure you don't take any stationary on your way out!"

No so much.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
Its clear that working for AA isn't THAT bad, after all when all those awesome high paying jobs in the middle east, asia, and other parts... AA still has pilots working for them.

Not everyone is thrilled with the prospect of moving their family to those places or is willing to spordically commute from Africa or Asia to see their families. If that was my flying career option, I wouldn't fly.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
WN hasn't stolen all the 737 pilots with their top of the industry pay.

Southwest doesn't hire everyone who applies. Not everyone wants to work at Southwest. Not everyone wants to fly a 737 their entire career. Not everyone wants to start over. Or commute. Or whatever. Southwest gets great candidates, but they don't get everyone.


User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10322 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 14):
Well my company hired quite a few ex-Eastern pilots from "the last days," and I know tons more at (or retired from) other carriers, in the FAA, and other respectable, responsible jobs.

Well I think we all know how much credibility to give XT6wagon, the post you quoted simply being the icing on the cake.


User currently offlinegenybustrvlr From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8949 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 13):
My employer is thinking the same thing. Despite our contract, embargo on all AA flights unless it is a code-share operated by another carrier.

We have an AA ban too as of last week. AA is not our contract carrier (UA, Delta, US) but I know we send a fair amount of business its way through out of policy requests for direct flights or time preferences. Point is, Corporate travel has two priorities, manage costs and, probably more important, get employes where they need to go seamlessly.

I'd bet that AAs last minute, high fare business sales have plunged just as fast as it's on time performance.

The last thing any corporate travel manager wants is a bunch of angry, delayed travelers sending nasty e-mails and buying walk-up fares on another airline when AA $%^&s the traveler.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8620 times:

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 8):
I love AA and out of the 103,356 miles I've flown this year I have had 0 cancelled flights and can count on one hand the number of times I've been significantly delayed.

Where have you flown into/out of?

EVERY AA flight I take is delayed (and I'm not just talking the past 2 weeks, but the past 4 years!). I fly:

MIA-NYC-MIA
MIA-MSY-MIA
MIA-LAX-MIA
MIA-ORD-MIA
MIA-NAS-MIA


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8551 times:
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I find the whole AA situation quite sad.

Itst one thing to go bankrupt or belly up.

But AA's seems a long drawn out torturous affair. CAncellations, infighting made public, loose seats,....

like watching a company slowly implode....

I truly wish the company well.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 18):
I find the whole AA situation quite sad.

Itst one thing to go bankrupt or belly up.

But AA's seems a long drawn out torturous affair. CAncellations, infighting made public, loose seats,....

Hmm this explains a lot.

RUMOR ALERT from Tempe:

US is holding back on its merger of AA because of this. Anyone got anything to support this? I heard this from people walking around Mill and from an FA on top of T-4 last week.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8220 times:

My parents were recently delayed 22+ hours on AA992 coming to the US. They are now sitting in MIA on AA991 going home. They just announced a dent on the wing and that they might need to take the airplane out of service.

I wonder how much money AA is losing per day with this turtle operation in progress. My favorite airline, 9 year ExecPlat. Doesn't seem to have an end insight!


User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8124 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
US is holding back on its merger of AA because of this.

Would you blame them if this is true? It's just like buying anything else. (assuming US would be the acquiring party) Who would want to buy substandard merchandise?


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8014 times:

Quoting N737AA (Reply 10):
Didn't keep anyone from hiring exEA pilots.....many work at AA today :-/

Legal stikes are one thing, and illegal work actions that drive the company you work for out of operations is a whole different thing. No one believes the union line that the Pilots are the victims in the whole delay/cancelation nightmare. Perhaps they are not alone in misbehaving, but there is clear evidence that pilots are not doing their jobs. Not all, but enough that literally overnight AA became unable to operate to even a minimal acceptable standard.

Wouldn't that make *YOU* keep looking in the resume pile if you knew that a person was a member of a group that would rather put tens of thousands out of work, than find common ground for a workable contract? One who instead of moving on and finding a new job when no longer satisfied with the current job, would rather burn the company to the ground? I know I would. Maybe when the 1500hr rule hits hard on the regionals and the bottom of the resume pile is reached... but certainly not for someone asking $100K+ a year and control of one of the companies best planes.


User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7850 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):

I am beginning to wonder at what point US would be better off waiting for a liquidation. . .all you would need is for a bank to pull the plug. . . .and it would happen. . . On a serious note, I think liquidation for AA is more likely now than it was even 6 months ago. Thats pretty sad. . . I feel bad for everyone over there.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 17):
Where have you flown into/out of?

EVERY AA flight I take is delayed (and I'm not just talking the past 2 weeks, but the past 4 years!). I fly:

MIA-NYC-MIA
MIA-MSY-MIA
MIA-LAX-MIA
MIA-ORD-MIA
MIA-NAS-MIA

I think the bigger question is where have you been flying? I have averaged a trip on AA every 3-4 weeks for the last years and would say that on average my flights have been on-time about 80-85% of the time, even including during this recent slowdown.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
RUMOR ALERT from Tempe:

US is holding back on its merger of AA because of this. Anyone got anything to support this? I heard this from people walking around Mill and from an FA on top of T-4 last week.

Doubt if highly. Parker wants a merger, and a little labor unhappiness or operational chaos has never slowed him down until now with any of the other airlines he's run.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7895 times:

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 23):
I am beginning to wonder at what point US would be better off waiting for a liquidation. . .all you would need is for a bank to pull the plug. . . .and it would happen. . . On a serious note, I think liquidation for AA is more likely now than it was even 6 months ago. Thats pretty sad. . . I feel bad for everyone over there.

And, which bank would that be? The one providing DIP financing? SMH.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 23):
I am beginning to wonder at what point US would be better off waiting for a liquidation. . .all you would need is for a bank to pull the plug. . . .and it would happen. . . On a serious note, I think liquidation for AA is more likely now than it was even 6 months ago. Thats pretty sad. . . I feel bad for everyone over there.

It came off as a surprise but I think some people really kinda saw it coming. Someone definitely didn't do something right. I agree, If US or anyone else wants their assets, I guess see if the banks will pull the plug first, then they can all vulcher in and eat up the scraps.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineRedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 754 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

My flight from Chicago to Phoenix was delayed a couple days ago. They were having issues because our flight crew was delayed inbound from DFW. They ended up delaying us about an hour and 15 mins. You can tell there was an overall lack of communication and I felt bad because the CSA's have been getting the short end of the stick having to deal with upset passengers.

American ended up giving me and my spouse $250 in travel vouchers after it was all said and done. At least AA is making up for it by giving out vouchers for those travelers if they contact AA for compensation. It's a nice gesture in my book.


- Mason



Northwest Airlines. Now you're flying smart! (RIP 1926-2009)
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

For better or worse, the general public thinks of striking pilots much the same way as striking professional athletes; people who have it pretty good, (and definitely better than most people who buy tickets which pay their salaries), holding the public hostage to screw even more out of the ticket buying public.

The company is most often viewed as more sympathetic since they own the company, they pay the salaries and the expenses and take the losses while the employee makes their money regardless of how the company does, right up until they are fired, laid off, quit or the company goes under.

The APA, (much like the currently striking NHL players), may actually have some valid points but they really suck at presenting a sympathetic viewpoint. Most of the travelling public cringes at the idea of having their hard earned, (and hard to come by), vacation bucks flushed down the crapper because some rich guy wants to screw over another rich guy, which only really screws around the poor schmucks in the back.

If the APA is looking for support from the public, screwing with their travel time and money is a lousy way to do it. They have to make their case to the Walmart crowd, not the country club set.

On the other hand, maybe the APA doesn't care about what the passengers lose by their actions. Management sure isn't getting hurt by work slowdowns.

Less than 60% on time average? Really? Who do you think is really being hurt by this?

You want respect? First respect the people most vulnerable to job action. Show respect for the people who ultimately pay your salary and are left screwed by 'work to rule'. They would be the people in the back of the plane, or as I've heard them referred to by many 'professional' pilots I know, "self loading cargo".

Respect, like loyalty, has to be earned and maintained.

Maybe it's just a PR problem. Maybe every point the APA is making is totally legit and every action is justified. If so, I'd work on that pronto because I'll bet real cash money that the vast majority of the public, including the flying public, doesn't think so.



What the...?
User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 28):

Nice post!

N737AA


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12565 posts, RR: 25
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7345 times:

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 23):
I am beginning to wonder at what point US would be better off waiting for a liquidation. . .all you would need is for a bank to pull the plug. . . .and it would happen

Despite AA going into BK with cash on hand and getting DIP (debtor in possession) financing, AA is insolvent. AA owes a heck of a lot more than its assets are worth, otherwise we probably would have seen liquidation a long time ago.

The theory is that the creditors will get more back if a new AA emerges with the current creditors as shareholders, and that new AA becomes more valuable after a few years.

It seems the pilots are banking on the idea that when push comes to shove it's easier to replace a layer or two of managers than it is to replace thousands of pilots.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
Wouldn't that make *YOU* keep looking in the resume pile if you knew that a person was a member of a group that would rather put tens of thousands out of work, than find common ground for a workable contract?

So if you saw AA on someone's resume, you'd just assume they were guilty? Why stop there? Some airlines have scabs, would you give them preferential hiring since they tried to help a hurting airline? You clearly are lacking in knowledge about pilot hiring.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineEricAY05 From Finland, joined Sep 2010, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7018 times:

Could someone please very briefly summon what is going on? I'm planning to buy tickets to an AA flight in November, but am hesitating because of what has been posted. I flew AA LAX-DFW-MCO last week and had some problems with the latter flight. First the plane left late because of a "leaking door" (ac had to be pressurised to check whether the problem had been fixed) and later it took 1,5 hours for the baggage to arrive at the carousel for one reason or another.

I don't have a problems with delays like this, but if they are fake problems created by the workers, I would very much like to avoid the airline in the future.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6993 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 24):

I think the bigger question is where have you been flying?

I clearly wrote where I've been flying in the post that you quoted! LOL


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 635 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

Did my four segments as usual this week on AA and had no delays, no cancellations, and no crawling taxi speeds. Maybe the guidance from APA, the threat of litigation, and the reengagement of negotiations have begun to right the ship?

User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6946 times:

68 mainline cancellations so far today. Most of them 757s. Are these cancelled by AA as a result of 757 inspection on seats or by the slowdown operation?

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8821 posts, RR: 5
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6931 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 35):
68 mainline cancellations so far today.

More flights are canceled for today and tomorrow. Certain flights that are affected include:
MIA-CCS
CCS-MIA
MIA-LIM
LIM-MIA
MIA-LPB-VVI
LPB-VVI-MIA
MIA-PAP
MIA-POS
POS-MIA
MIA-SJU
SJU-MIA
MIA-SSA
SSA-MIA


User currently offlineTexL1649 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

If US does buy (most of) AA in liquidation, it will be fitting that the pilots will literally get nothing. Sure, many will get re-hired, but nada otherwise.

Hope that the APA isn't counting on that 1% a month cut much longer from those thousands of members.


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 35):
68 mainline cancellations so far today. Most of them 757s. Are these cancelled by AA as a result of 757 inspection on seats or by the slowdown operation?

This morning, AA ordered an additional inspection of the 48 B757s with the Weber seats prior to their next revenue flight. Only certain AA maintenance stations have been authorized to perform this additional inspection so many planes must be ferried to/from these stations to have the inspections completed. Hence, many B757 cancelations today. Logic suggests there will be some more tomorrow as well.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 364 posts, RR: 12
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6807 times:

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 37):
If US does buy (most of) AA in liquidation, it will be fitting that the pilots will literally get nothing. Sure, many will get re-hired, but nada otherwise.

Hope that the APA isn't counting on that 1% a month cut much longer from those thousands of members.

That might be the way you hope it is, but I don't think that will be the likely scenario. It is a very complicated situation and I would suggest you keep an open mind.


User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 38):
This morning, AA ordered an additional inspection of the 48 B757s with the Weber seats prior to their next revenue flight. Only certain AA maintenance stations have been authorized to perform this additional inspection so many planes must be ferried to/from these stations to have the inspections completed. Hence, many B757 cancelations today. Logic suggests there will be some more tomorrow as well.

Thanks AAR90!


User currently offlineQANTASvJet From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2012, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6680 times:

'American Airlines' is such an amazing brand name - I wonder who will buy it when there is nothing else left?

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2310 posts, RR: 3
Reply 42, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6638 times:

My flight from LAX to DFW on an AA 767 was cancelled Sunday. It appears they loaded another flight on an MD80 into the schedule as it was a 99XX number....I was a little worried about my connection in DFW being tight, luckily I was able to get stanby on and earlier flight that was 2.5 hours before my scheduled flight so it ended up being ok. I knew when I saw an 800 number call my phone at 4am in the morning it was going to be AA  

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 43, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 22):
Perhaps they are not alone in misbehaving, but there is clear evidence that pilots are not doing their jobs.

Any issue, no matter how small, is written up and inspected prior to departure. That means the pilots are doing their job too well, and AA management is fuming because they know there's no legal action they can take to stop it.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 31):
So if you saw AA on someone's resume, you'd just assume they were guilty? Why stop there? Some airlines have scabs, would you give them preferential hiring since they tried to help a hurting airline? You clearly are lacking in knowledge about pilot hiring.

   XT6Wagon has repeatedly proved that he is very ignorant when it comes to the realities of being a pilot in this day and age.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 44, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6354 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 33):
I clearly wrote where I've been flying in the post that you quoted! LOL

I was being sarcastic.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 34):
Maybe the guidance from APA, the threat of litigation, and the reengagement of negotiations have begun to right the ship?

Let's hope.


User currently offlineclrd4t8koff From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 27):
My flight from Chicago to Phoenix was delayed a couple days ago. They were having issues because our flight crew was delayed inbound from DFW. They ended up delaying us about an hour and 15 mins. You can tell there was an overall lack of communication and I felt bad because the CSA's have been getting the short end of the stick having to deal with upset passengers.

American ended up giving me and my spouse $250 in travel vouchers after it was all said and done. At least AA is making up for it by giving out vouchers for those travelers if they contact AA for compensation. It's a nice gesture in my book.

Wait, let me get this straight - you were delayed 1 hour 15 mins and you were given $250 in travel vouchers? Something's being left out or AA wants to go out of business quicker than any of it's enemies want it too.....   


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 46, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

AA announced it will trim its November schedule by further 1 percent to build aircraft and crew availability.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

"American Airlines said it will cut back on passenger capacity until mid-November, extending reductions from September and October as it cancelled hundreds of flights, citing aircraft maintenance issues and pilots reporting sick."

source: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1349994591.html

Did AA really comment about pilot sick leave usage again, or is Airwise beating an misinformed horse?


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 48, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

It's been a week at least since we got an update, so how are things going these days? Same miserable on-time numbers?

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 49, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 47):
Did AA really comment about pilot sick leave usage again, or is Airwise beating an misinformed horse?

Not that I can find. The actual AA statement I can find - quoted on the websites of both of AA's hometown papers - says absolutely nothing about pilot sick calls. In fact, I can't find any specific mention of the pilots at all.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 48):
It's been a week at least since we got an update, so how are things going these days? Same miserable on-time numbers?

Not where it should be, but dramatically improved from where it was three weeks ago.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 50, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Well yesterday the non-advanced scheduling cancellation count was mere 3. On-time arrivals however were still in the toilet at 67%.

Today as of 10 Central, cancel count is 4.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

So... apologies for asking the same thing again and again by different people. Do I dare book on AA? How bad is the situation? Flying in a couple of weeks, domestic US, between major AA cities that have several flights per day, and I have OW status.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 52, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Cancellations are down, but ontime reliability is still poor.

I guess as long as talks continue with the pilots and there is no bad news things will run relatively calm for the moment.

But my crystal ball cannot forecast what might happen in a few weeks.

Personally I would give myself plenty of time if flying AA incase if things go wrong. If for some reason you have to be someplace at a specific time, I would not rely on AA at this time however.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 53, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 51):
So... apologies for asking the same thing again and again by different people. Do I dare book on AA? How bad is the situation? Flying in a couple of weeks, domestic US, between major AA cities that have several flights per day, and I have OW status.

Regardless of the doom and gloom you might read on here, things are dramatically improved. AA is now essentially back to where they were in terms of on-time reliability pre-slowdown. Doesn't mean their numbers are flawless, and they are still generally underperforming Delta and United, but they are now back to nearly satisfactory levels (high 70s/low 80s). In short - they definitely still need to improve, but performance in the last week (especially net of weather) has not been drastically bad like during September.

In other - more positive - news, a global brand consultancy conducted a survey and concluded, quite positively for AA, that its recent troubles have not too dramatically hurt its standing with customers - particularly critically-important frequent flyers - and that, perhaps most critically, the recent issues have not severely damaged travelers' perception of AA's safety, or persuaded many people to substantially change their buying patterns. We shall see if the next few months' worth of operational and financial performance bear that out.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3800 posts, RR: 12
Reply 54, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4384 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

About a week ago, I flew MIA-MCO then MCO-JFK. Both flights were 757s. The MIA-MCO flight was delayed because of a MX issue with the airplane, they had to find another 757 so we were delayed for over an hour. I had a doubt that I would make it to my connecting flight, but upon deplaning in MCO, I went straight to the gate of my connecting flight and I could still get on it because it was delayed 15 min or so. Fortunately the AA terminal in MCO being small, it didn't take me long to get from one gate to the other. I arrived safely in JFK and so did my luggage. That is to say, when a trip starts badly, it can always end nicely.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 55, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 53):
not too dramatically hurt its standing with customers - particularly critically-important frequent flyers

LOL.

I guess you consider 1/4 customers considering taking their business somewhere else as being good ?

Frankly that is devastating.

For each potential customer AA losses, so goes a few hundred in $$ it could have earned.

And I know one such customer. An EXP that has no intention setting foot an AA plane at the moment. His travel needs can very easily be accommodated by competing airlines. And with him goes thousands in $$$ to someone else.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 56, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
I guess you consider 1/4 customers considering taking their business somewhere else as being good

Do you have a source for this figure?


It's just, like 3/3, I often think such talk from most frequent flyers is just that, talk. They will threaten to write to everyone from their Congressman to Mother Theresa, get a few SWUs thrown at them, and then happily continue flashing their 1K/EXP card



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 57, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
I guess you consider 1/4 customers considering taking their business somewhere else as being good ?

  

"Devastating." LOL is right. I don't know why I'd expect anything else.

Let's see what portion of customers AA actually loses long-term. Just like oh-so-many other operational challenges that every airline has faced from time to time - and some other carriers besides AA are still currently facing now - things blow over.

[Edited 2012-10-17 09:36:49]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25436 posts, RR: 49
Reply 58, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 56):
Do you have a source for this figure?

In the reply 53 link.

Despite that, only one-third are worried about the safety of American flights. And nearly three quarters of the survey respondents said American’s troubles have not prompted them to consider moving their business to another airline.

Quoting commavia (Reply 57):
"Devastating." LOL is right. I don't know why I'd expect anything else.

Imagine of 1/4 of Marriott customers. Or 1/4 of Apple customers, or 1/4 of any brand were considering defecting.

Even if you only lose a fraction of those, its could easily be millions upon millions in lost revenue opportunity.

Not a pretty situation to be in.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 59, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58):
Quoting commavia (Reply 57):
"Devastating." LOL is right. I don't know why I'd expect anything else.

Imagine of 1/4 of Marriott customers. Or 1/4 of Apple customers, or 1/4 of any brand were considering defecting.

That's a lot of customers. The bottom line on any company, especially someone that's floundering around like AA, is going to be drastically affected..



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
And I know one such customer. An EXP that has no intention setting foot an AA plane at the moment. His travel needs can very easily be accommodated by competing airlines. And with him goes thousands in $$$ to someone else.

One EXP who spends thousands a year?

My partner just spent thousands on a RTW, oneworld itinerary ticketed by AA, which included transatlantic/transpac segments on Iberia, BA, and JAL, all JV revenue for AA. He spent thousands on that itinerary alone. Through all the alleged turmoil, he's done four of these RTW's this year.

AA is holding on to the customers that matter, hence the uptick in their international, revenue premium.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 61, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58):
Imagine of 1/4 of Marriott customers. Or 1/4 of Apple customers, or 1/4 of any brand were considering defecting.

I'm sure if you generically asked people in a survey if they were thinking of switching brands on one product or another, many if not most companys' customers would have at least 1/4 fitting into that group. What % of United or Delta customers "think" of switching to a competitor if the fare is $5 cheaper? The key is who actually switches. AMR says the revenue hit will definitely show in October and Q4 - and of course it will - but the other half of this survey, that you are of course ignoring, is the overarching conclusion that the vast majority of people are willing to stick with AA (in spite of the delays and media hysteria) and think AA's planes are safe.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 60):
One EXP who spends thousands a year?

Have you been on FT lately? There are numerous top-tier United FFs on there who aren't thinking about switching, but have already switched. It will be interesting to see what actually happens over the next few months ...


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 62, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3835 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 53):
In other - more positive - news, a global brand consultancy conducted a survey and concluded, quite positively for AA, that its recent troubles have not too dramatically hurt its standing with customers - particularly critically-important frequent flyers - and that, perhaps most critically, the recent issues have not severely damaged travelers' perception of AA's safety, or persuaded many people to substantially change their buying patterns.

What a bizarre survey (as described in that link). The sample was "passengers of American and other airlines?" I wonder what percentage had experienced problems with American and how they answered. Otherwise you're interviewing people who flew United and Delta and asking them about their perception of American? Makes zero sense.

Even with this strange sampling approach, note what the survey did find:

* Half think American cares more about its shareholders than its customers.

* 42.5 percent think American has lost its way; more say it hasn’t.

* 28 percent would consider moving their business to another airline.

And this sentence, which seriously makes me doubt that this DaMN blog is unbiased about AA:

"Only one-third are worried about the safety of American flights."

Jesus Christ, that's a big deal. I'd imagine the response for most people flying other airlines is close to zero.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 63, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 62):
And this sentence, which seriously makes me doubt that this DaMN blog is unbiased about AA:

"Only one-third are worried about the safety of American flights."

Jesus Christ, that's a big deal. I'd imagine the response for most people flying other airlines is close to zero.

But again - context is important - and in this case we - or at least I - don't have it.

What is that compared to? Was that just people saying in general that "I care about the safety of the plane I'm on"? If you asked passengers of "Delta and other airlines" or "United and other airlines," how many would say that they are concerned about safety? I'm guessing that depending on the wording, probably plenty - in general. This being the election season, we clearly see more than ever how critical the wording of a question is to getting a particular answer. Without knowing how the question was actually asked, it's impossible to know what the answer represents.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 64, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 63):
Without knowing how the question was actually asked, it's impossible to know what the answer represents.

And we can be fairly certain how you will interpret it.

The survey results are pretty dismal as presented. I question the validity of such a nonsense survey to begin with, but you're the one who trumpeted the results as proof positive that AA's brand was intact. (The delusional columnist seems to agree, so you're not the only one.)

[Edited 2012-10-17 10:38:31]

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 65, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 64):
The survey results are pretty dismal as presented. I question the validity of such a nonsense survey to begin with, but you're the one who trumpeted the results as proof positive that AA's brand was intact. (The delusional columnist seems to agree, so you're not the only one.)

I disagree that they're dismal - as presented or as interpreted by me or anyone else. How "dismal" would an identical survey at Delta, United or USAirways look? But nonetheless - your point is fair: validity is questionable both ways - good and bad.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 65):
I disagree that they're dismal - as presented or as interpreted by me or anyone else. How "dismal" would an identical survey at Delta, United or USAirways look? But nonetheless - your point is fair: validity is questionable both ways - good and bad.

Probably the main point is that the survey as intended is not very meaningful or useful, and as such, it doesn't make much sense to waste any time trying to interpret it.

Now--a slight rib--as it is my cause célèbre du jour. You obviously care enough about the importance of good writing. Why do you insist on not putting a space between US and Airways?


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 5
Reply 67, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 61):
Have you been on FT lately? There are numerous top-tier United FFs on there who aren't thinking about switching, but have already switched. It will be interesting to see what actually happens over the next few months ...

And, with good reason. AA enticed many of the United 1K's with an EXP match and SWU's. What they found when they got to AA is that AA's meal service in premium cabins is better and that AA treats EXP's better than United treats 1K's. So why not stick around?

Plus, the future for premium travelers on AA is going to get much better, with an industry-leading business cabin in the pipeline and a greater emphasis companywide on the experience of the premium passenger. We will get our first glimpse of the new premium onboard experience in Dec.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 68, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 62):
"Only one-third are worried about the safety of American flights."

Again, that's a lot of pax. The larger the plane, the more people you're gonna have worried (given that number)



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 69, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58):
Despite that, only one-third are worried about the safety of American flights. And nearly three quarters of the survey respondents said American’s troubles have not prompted them to consider moving their business to another airline.

Sorry, I completely missed that! I got caught up in the spin and saw the positive, not even noticing the implicit negative in the figures.

Quoting commavia (Reply 61):
I'm sure if you generically asked people in a survey if they were thinking of switching brands on one product or another, many if not most companys' customers would have at least 1/4 fitting into that group

That's true. If you talk to a lot of first generation iPhone users most (myself included) will be able to rant about its poor quality and prone to break easily. However, if you look what phone those first gen iPhoners have now (myself included) I can practically guarantee you it is an iPhone.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 67):
AA enticed many of the United 1K's with an EXP match and SWU's.

Right, "many". Bearing in mind NONE of us have the faintest clue what proportion of 1Ks have defected I am going to stab in the dark and say it is probably under a quarter - that is, the figure which is either hotrocious or really great depending on how you interpret this survey. The same with UA - I'm sure they've ruffled a few feathers but the bulk of their business has stayed loyal.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinebaldheadeddork From United States of America, joined May 2011, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 28):
The APA, (much like the currently striking NHL players), may actually have some valid points but they really suck at presenting a sympathetic viewpoint. Most of the travelling public cringes at the idea of having their hard earned, (and hard to come by), vacation bucks flushed down the crapper because some rich guy wants to screw over another rich guy, which only really screws around the poor schmucks in the back.

I know this seems like a small point, but it's not. The NHL players are not on strike. They have been locked out by the team owners to force the union to accept a paycut even though the contract is not up for renegotiation.

And the idea of APA pilots as "one rich guy" is even more ridiculously uninformed. The assistant night manager at McDonald's makes more than a typical FO, and even when you make Captain it still takes years to get the big money at the top of the seniority list.

Want to try again?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 71, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting baldheadeddork (Reply 70):
The assistant night manager at McDonald's makes more than a typical FO

How much does a "typical" first officer at AA make? I believe a 5 year narrowbody f/o is at $95, with a 64 hour guarantee. That's about $73,000 per year, which to a lot of folks looks pretty darn good. Keep in mind, too, that every AA captain - half of pilots or so - is topped out and many first officers are too.

How senior is the least senior AA pilot? I know AA's first year rates are very low, but they aren't exactly hiring gobs of pilots off the street.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 72, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3322 times:

Quoting baldheadeddork (Reply 70):
The assistant night manager at McDonald's makes more than a typical FO,

I remember many years ago when American Eagle was hiring in ICT, and the local McDonalds at the airport was offering a higher hourly rate than Eagle was paying for ticket counter agents.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 73, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting baldheadeddork (Reply 70):
Want to try again?


Nope...I did a pretty good job of making my point clearly the first time. Interpretation problems are on the reader.

[Edited 2012-10-18 07:00:22]


What the...?
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 74, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 71):
How senior is the least senior AA pilot?

On Nov.01, the most junior pilot will have 11.5 years seniority with AA.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 75, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 74):
On Nov.01, the most junior pilot will have 11.5 years seniority with AA.

Thanks, AAR90. If my math is correct, that means that no AA pilot makes less than $83,000 (those who get bumped to the 319 will make less than that).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 76, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 52):
Personally I would give myself plenty of time if flying AA incase if things go wrong. If for some reason you have to be someplace at a specific time, I would not rely on AA at this time however.

That's a good rule of thumb with ANY airline in the USA these days. If I have to be somewhere and the only way to get there is to fly, I take a flight one (or even two) days before the meeting / family event / etc. I also use Amtrak overnight trains quite a bit more these days than I did 5 years ago.

Quoting commavia (Reply 53):
Regardless of the doom and gloom you might read on here, things are dramatically improved. AA is now essentially back to where they were in terms of on-time reliability pre-slowdown.

Which is ... not so good.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 54):
The MIA-MCO flight was delayed because of a MX issue with the airplane, they had to find another 757 so we were delayed for over an hour.

Ah, the typical AA 757 "experience" once again.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 77, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3102 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 71):
How much does a "typical" first officer at AA make? I believe a 5 year narrowbody f/o is at $95, with a 64 hour guarantee. That's about $73,000 per year, which to a lot of folks looks pretty darn good. Keep in mind, too, that every AA captain - half of pilots or so - is topped out and many first officers are too.

With 1,685 on furlough, I doubt AA has hired a pilot (whom is flying/being paid) in the last 7 years. So it looks like $86/hour will be their minimum pay when the A319s come in house per:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/american.html

What is telling: Most junior captain hired: Mar 1992 (MD80/LGA)

So there are 20 year seniority FOs (non-voluntary).

Quoting N62NA (Reply 76):
If I have to be somewhere and the only way to get there is to fly, I take a flight one (or even two) days before the meeting / family event / etc.

If I did that, there would be weeks I never saw my kids. I'll fly out in the morning for a lunch meeting (flying east). If that isn't possible/dependable, I'll fly another airlne.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12565 posts, RR: 25
Reply 78, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 58):
Even if you only lose a fraction of those, its could easily be millions upon millions in lost revenue opportunity.

Not a pretty situation to be in.

Being in BK is already a situation that's not pretty to be in.

It's never particularly clear what customer base you'll have once you emerge from BK.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 79, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 77):
What is telling: Most junior captain hired: Mar 1992 (MD80/LGA)

So there are 20 year seniority FOs (non-voluntary).

You data is probably old.

On Nov.01, the most junior CA (ex-TW) has an Oct.2000 seniority date.
Original date-of-hire with TW was Dec.1988.

On Nov.01, the most junior CA (non-TW) has a Mar.1998 seniority date.
Any non-TW pilot with an earlier date is not a Captain by choice.

Lots of reasons not to upgrade.
On Nov.01, the most senior FO has an Oct.1984 seniority date.... his choice.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 80, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 77):
If I did that, there would be weeks I never saw my kids. I'll fly out in the morning for a lunch meeting (flying east). If that isn't possible/dependable, I'll fly another airlne.

Your choice. Ever fly to NYC?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 81, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2917 times:
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Quoting AAR90 (Reply 79):
You data is probably old.

Fair enough, hence why I gave a link. So instead of 1992 it is Mar 1998. So a FO must have 14 years of seniority to be a captain.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 74):
On Nov.01, the most junior pilot will have 11.5 years seniority with AA.

Is that the Oct 2000 ex- TW with a 1988 hire date?

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 79):
Lots of reasons not to upgrade.

Agreed. That senior FO will have his choice of flights. No one will out bid him. But that pilot only has a few more years to fly. I wonder why he isn't bidding Captain?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 82, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 81):
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 74):
On Nov.01, the most junior pilot will have 11.5 years seniority with AA.

Is that the Oct 2000 ex- TW with a 1988 hire date?

No. Looks like an original hire date in Feb. 2000.

As of Nov. 01, 2012... Total Active Pilots = 7,648
3,599 Captains + 4,049 First Officers
898 pilots listed with Recall Rights.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23029 posts, RR: 20
Reply 83, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 80):
Your choice. Ever fly to NYC?

What percentage of flights to NYC do not arrive within 4 hours of their scheduled arrival? How about 12 hours? How about 24 hours?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 84, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
What percentage of flights to NYC do not arrive within 4 hours of their scheduled arrival?

50%

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
How about 12 hours?

10%

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
How about 24 hours?

5%


* Numbers based on just my own experience, flying AA MIA to NYC (EWR, LGA and JFK) over the past 5 years.  


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 85, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2480 times:
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Quoting N62NA (Reply 80):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 77):
If I did that, there would be weeks I never saw my kids. I'll fly out in the morning for a lunch meeting (flying east). If that isn't possible/dependable, I'll fly another airline.

Your choice. Ever fly to NYC?

Yes. I find the B6 redeye to JFK has been 100% dependable. I'm in the city having breakfast before anyone else is awake besides a few garbage trucks. I miss zero time. Oh, I'm beat at the end of the workday, but its worth it to spend time with family. Now flights out of JFK... I missed a flight despite arriving at JFK 3 hours before the flight on AA! Hence why I try to fly B6.

Before this mess, I *never* missed a meeting. I made the choice to spend more of my Sunday with my children and I am thankful I did so.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 82):

As of Nov. 01, 2012... Total Active Pilots = 7,648
3,599 Captains + 4,049 First Officers
898 pilots listed with Recall Rights.

Thank you.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 76):
I also use Amtrak overnight trains quite a bit more these days than I did 5 years ago.

I've had friends delayed far worse on Amtrak than I've ever heard of with airlines.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 76):
That's a good rule of thumb with ANY airline in the USA these days.

Oh, I arrive early at the airport. I'm not silly...

Lightsaber

Quoting N62NA (Reply 84):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
What percentage of flights to NYC do not arrive within 4 hours of their scheduled arrival?

50%

WHAT?!? Ok, I admit the majority of my flights to JFK have been B6 redeyes where ZERO have been late. I simply do not believe your number. What horrid airline do you fly?

B6 has not one flight that is that poor:
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...lightRatingByCarrier.do?airline=b6

Even AA is doing better than that:
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...tRatingByCarrier.do?airlineCode=AA


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 86, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 85):

WHAT?!? Ok, I admit the majority of my flights to JFK have been B6 redeyes where ZERO have been late. I simply do not believe your number. What horrid airline do you fly?

Hint: It's in the title of this topic.  


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