QatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1618 posts, RR: 7 Posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 19485 times:
Quote:
Frustrated by endless delays to its Boeing 787 delivery schedule, Qatar Airways is understood to have initiated discussions with Airbus about a major A330 deal.
Qatar Airways has 30 787s on order, and had been expecting to introduce its first five this year, with deliveries slated to continue through 2013 and 2014. But with its 787 deliveries in limbo and Qatar facing a potential capacity shortage, Flightglobal has learnt that talks have begun with Airbus for up to 24 A330s. The airline is seeking deliveries from mid-2013.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6747 posts, RR: 65 Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 18878 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1): is the A330 program starting to slow down?
Not likely. They've already sold 60 or so this year and there is a substantial backlog. But some older orders are probably more 'fluid' than others (there are lots of A330Fs ordered but not placed, for example, and who knows what'll happen to quite a few A330s on order for various Chinese airlines) so slots in 2013 may not be so hard to create. And if Airbus ever had an incentive to free up slots, this is it!
Chiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 929 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 18729 times:
Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): I dont think it will be done; I wonder what this technical issue is with B.
I for my part think that Boeing will smooth this out and Qatar will take the frames.
When can Airbus deliver any A330s anyway? Not for a couple of year I would imagine.
migair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17585 times:
I think they are working to have a plan B for the more than possibles delays on A350 and more B787. And at the same time sending a message to Boeing about the B787 delays, lately they are doing a lot of noise about it and specially using this magazine, it looks like the official magazine of Qatar Airways... heheeheh
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26949 posts, RR: 83 Reply 10, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17044 times:
As I understand it, the issue with the 787 is the integration of the OnAir Internet system with the THALES IFE system. QR is a GEnx customer, so there may be issues with the fan shaft issue. Both of those are outside of Boeing's control, however, so AAB should be threatening OnAir and THALES with a Panasonic order or GE with a Trent order.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10883 posts, RR: 100 Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16422 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 2): And if Airbus ever had an incentive to free up slots, this is it!
It is good PR, but only a fraction of a year's production.
Quoting Chiad (Reply 4): I for my part think that Boeing will smooth this out and Qatar will take the frames.
I think QR will take the 787 frames, but they want to expand faster than Boeing could accommodate.
Quoting g500 (Reply 9): if he does order more A330s and it backfires on him down the road, it could be costly.
How would it be costly? With the new-DOH international airport, QR will finally have room for fast expansion. If Airbus is able to create slot availability, then why shouldn't QR expand with a type they are already familiar with? Most of QR's routes do not require more range than the A333 provides. Save the 787s for Australia, the Americas, and a few other routes.
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 987 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15841 times:
Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): But with its 787 deliveries in limbo and Qatar facing a potential capacity shortage
Potential capacity shortage? Like seriously?
What are they going to do in the low travel season. Sale sale sale....global sale every month?
Flew BKK-DOH-CPH and CDG-DOH-BKK back in MAY, not even half full on any of the flights. DOH-CPH was 1/4 full, the 330-200 was so empty. CDG-DOH on A340-600 was 1/3.
Flew BKK-DOH-LHR v.v last month...same case on all 4 flights.
With the never ending Euro crisis and global recession, Airlines should be proud to if they can just fill the A330s, not to mention the whale jet A380!!!
Don't be annoyed knowing the passengers around you are non-revs and op-upgraders, be grateful for them. Life is beautifu
astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9257 posts, RR: 96 Reply 14, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15648 times:
Quoting g500 (Reply 9): but if he does order more A330s and it backfires on him down the road, it could be costly.
In what way could you see ordering more A330's as a stop-gap "backfiring"?
It must be about as known an entity as it is possible to have, as an existing operator..
As QF002 says, it also provides a mechanism to leverage any deviations in the A350 programme
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26949 posts, RR: 83 Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15578 times:
Quoting astuteman (Reply 14): As QF002 says, it also provides a mechanism to leverage any deviations in the A350 programme.
If he's looking at A330-300s, then to me he's hedging against delays of the A350-900, not the 787-8.
mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3016 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15530 times:
Quoting astuteman (Reply 14): In what way could you see ordering more A330's as a stop-gap "backfiring"?
Can an A330 be operated for the same cost as a 787?
astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9257 posts, RR: 96 Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15358 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 16): Can an A330 be operated for the same cost as a 787?
Can EK operate a 777 for the same cost as an A350-1000?
Answer in both cases is obviously "unlikely"
But if it gets him capacity he otherwise wouldn't get, it may well work out on an NPV basis.
It's not like he doesn't know the plane.
I don't deny this might just be hot air. He does have previous. But I won't fall off my chair if it goes ahead. like some appear to be setting up for..
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26949 posts, RR: 83 Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15105 times:
I don't expect QR to issue a replacement order, since if they cancel the 787 contract, they're going to leave a lot of money on the table in lost deposits and progress payments.
And GE should have new engines ready for QR to get them their planes this year, so if they wait for the A330...
Not saying they won't order A330s, but I am saying I don't see such an order coming at the expense of the 787 order.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14784 times:
Quoting nethkt (Reply 13): Flew BKK-DOH-CPH and CDG-DOH-BKK back in MAY, not even half full on any of the flights. DOH-CPH was 1/4 full, the 330-200 was so empty. CDG-DOH on A340-600 was 1/3.
Flew BKK-DOH-LHR v.v last month...same case on all 4 flights.
How much of it is due to people wanting to avoid the airport there when they have better alternative?
I think the new airport will allow QR to finally compete for customer on a level playing field, which they can't today.
garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2343 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14687 times:
I bet there are a few top level folks at Boeing telling AAB in their heads to "Go on, do it, plenty other operators would love to get their ships earlier than expected, and we'll be rid of your childish outbursts too."
arpdesign.wordpress.com
25 Stitch: I like to believe Boeing (and Airbus) are better than that. This is hardly the first time AAB has theatened to cancel a Boeing order in favor of Airb
26 babybus: Could it be that rumours are circulating that the 787 isn't performing up to spec? QR have a fleet of tried and tested 330s. Ordering more is not a ga
27 Stitch: Except the rumors - will, statements from operators, actually - are that the 787 is performing better than spec...
28 DocLightning: That's exactly what he's probably doing. "Pay up or you lose our business." At this point, QR would be idiotic to walk away from the 787. They're goi
29 astuteman: A nitpick, but I understood the statements from operators to be more accurately "better than expected"..... Either way, it's the last reason to buy A
30 Stitch: Well Boeing hasn't delayed delivery indefinitely and QR won't take the planes due to the GEnx mid-fan issue and QR has a separate contract with GE fo
31 lightsaber: QR has GE on their A330s. While possible they would switch to RR (better hot/high), I consider that unlikely. I consider the 787 order cancellation '
32 Blueshamu330s: Lightsaber, I'm aware of what QR has hanging from its 330s. I was speculating that it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility that AAB would teac
33 DocLightning: If there is no delivery date still, then, by definition, delivery is indefinitely delayed. At this point, BOEING has not given a delivery date and as
34 Stitch: I expect Boeing has indeed given them a delivery date, QR just doesn't want to take delivery until they have GEnx engines attached that are not susce
35 YULWinterSkies: Not sure what Boeing could offer them as compensation, besides less money asked for the 787s. QR wants immediate growth, and cheaper 787s won't help
36 mozart: Is there really space at DOH on tarmacs and runways to accomodate 24 more A330s? I know people are betting on the new aiport, but that is already ten
37 flybyguy: It is unlikely that Airbus can accommodate a new set of deliveries for wide-bodies within 9 months. Furthermore, the customers like QR have highly cus
38 Asiaflyer: Airbus said they were looking to cut A330 production target soon, if the dispute about emissions between Europe and China was not resolved. Hence thes
39 scouseflyer: Except that they've already got some A330s so the design work will of already been done. I've got a completly diferant theory in that QR has a cash p
40 scbriml: You might have a point if QR didn't already operate 29 A330s. [Edited 2012-10-03 01:15:16]
41 QatarA340: QR's A330s are starting to get dated. So, new ones will most likely not get the same interior.
42 scbriml: The -200s maybe, but the last batch of the -300s were only delivered in 2008.
43 3rdGen: No, this is quite far wide of the mark. Airlines don't pay for their new planes in cash they either lease them from a third party, which in all likel
44 EPA001: Those are still pretty new. Anyway, regarding the topic we will have to wait and see how AAB will play his cards in this "game". I guess it is a matt
45 mariner: They can try. But Airbus has been awake to that game for years (as I'm sure Boeing is) and has said - many times - that they won't be used just to dr
46 skipness1E: I like the way people talk of low loads as if it was important. Qatar Airways is a political vanity project, like the World Cup. Profits are an ideal,
47 JerseyFlyer: Consistent with their not taking A380s until the new wing fittings are in place.
48 3rdGen: I would disagree, QR are very strict on costs and quality. They are not running an airline just for fun or to serve the country like Saudia or Gulf A
49 Stitch: Except Boeing does own GE Aviation and doesn't manufacture GEnx engines, so what, exactly, is Boeing supposed to do to secure revised GEnx engines? I
50 3rdGen: I completely agree with you, a man can't build an airline to the status that QR know enjoys if he didn't understand this. Thats why in all likelihood
51 Stitch: From Akbar Al Baker himself: Reuters article on AAB's statement CBS Market Watch article on AAB's statement Saj Ahmad is tweeting that the EIS of the
52 3rdGen: Gulp..I stand corrected, from what I heard the issue was due to THALES. I never took AAB as a man that wouldn't understand what was going on. Maybe I
53 Stitch: I believe part of the issue is also with the THALES IFE - specifically how the OnAir Internet service connects to it. Akbar Al Baker has also stated
54 Stitch: As a follow-up, Akbar Al Baker is now quoted in The Doha Press as noting that they are preparing to take delivery of their first 787-8, which will the
56 Stitch: Please read what I meant, not what I type. Five years on, I still can't type worth a darn on this Apple Al keyboard. [Edited 2012-10-03 12:20:40]
57 zkokq: Boeing must be getting annoyed with all these airline execs. GEnx is hardly Boeing fault and neither is their IFE system they picked.
58 scbriml: But, if you've just paid something like $150milion for a new plane, you'd expect it to be 100% when it's delivered, no? Who is responsible for the in
59 art: The customers make their own contracts with engine manufacturers, don't they? If so, providing Boeing's installation of the engine concerned is corre
60 scbriml: Absolutely. However, the issue seems to be the integration between the IFE and OnAir. If Boeing is doing the installation and integration work, then
61 art: Thanks. I did not see AAB saying anything about GE's performance in the linked articles. Why not? If he feels free to slam Airbus and Boeing publicly
62 Stitch: Well evidently the installation has not yet started (the plane needs to be flown to CHS to have it installed), so it might be THALES and OnAir are st
63 zkokq: The product is yet to be certified on the 787.
65 zkokq: Or the company who produces it for QR. Boeing dont design IFE as far as I know?
66 Stitch: Thales is one of the original IFE partners with Boeing, so it could be a case where the Thales IFE system is certified, but the OnAir add-on is not.
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