QatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10 Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21588 times:
Frustrated by endless delays to its Boeing 787 delivery schedule, Qatar Airways is understood to have initiated discussions with Airbus about a major A330 deal.
Qatar Airways has 30 787s on order, and had been expecting to introduce its first five this year, with deliveries slated to continue through 2013 and 2014. But with its 787 deliveries in limbo and Qatar facing a potential capacity shortage, Flightglobal has learnt that talks have begun with Airbus for up to 24 A330s. The airline is seeking deliveries from mid-2013.
PM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20981 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1): is the A330 program starting to slow down?
Not likely. They've already sold 60 or so this year and there is a substantial backlog. But some older orders are probably more 'fluid' than others (there are lots of A330Fs ordered but not placed, for example, and who knows what'll happen to quite a few A330s on order for various Chinese airlines) so slots in 2013 may not be so hard to create. And if Airbus ever had an incentive to free up slots, this is it!
migair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1924 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 19688 times:
I think they are working to have a plan B for the more than possibles delays on A350 and more B787. And at the same time sending a message to Boeing about the B787 delays, lately they are doing a lot of noise about it and specially using this magazine, it looks like the official magazine of Qatar Airways... heheeheh
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19147 times:
As I understand it, the issue with the 787 is the integration of the OnAir Internet system with the THALES IFE system. QR is a GEnx customer, so there may be issues with the fan shaft issue. Both of those are outside of Boeing's control, however, so AAB should be threatening OnAir and THALES with a Panasonic order or GE with a Trent order.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18525 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 2): And if Airbus ever had an incentive to free up slots, this is it!
It is good PR, but only a fraction of a year's production.
Quoting Chiad (Reply 4): I for my part think that Boeing will smooth this out and Qatar will take the frames.
I think QR will take the 787 frames, but they want to expand faster than Boeing could accommodate.
Quoting g500 (Reply 9): if he does order more A330s and it backfires on him down the road, it could be costly.
How would it be costly? With the new-DOH international airport, QR will finally have room for fast expansion. If Airbus is able to create slot availability, then why shouldn't QR expand with a type they are already familiar with? Most of QR's routes do not require more range than the A333 provides. Save the 787s for Australia, the Americas, and a few other routes.
Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17944 times:
Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): But with its 787 deliveries in limbo and Qatar facing a potential capacity shortage
Potential capacity shortage? Like seriously?
What are they going to do in the low travel season. Sale sale sale....global sale every month?
Flew BKK-DOH-CPH and CDG-DOH-BKK back in MAY, not even half full on any of the flights. DOH-CPH was 1/4 full, the 330-200 was so empty. CDG-DOH on A340-600 was 1/3.
Flew BKK-DOH-LHR v.v last month...same case on all 4 flights.
With the never ending Euro crisis and global recession, Airlines should be proud to if they can just fill the A330s, not to mention the whale jet A380!!!
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16887 times:
Quoting nethkt (Reply 13): Flew BKK-DOH-CPH and CDG-DOH-BKK back in MAY, not even half full on any of the flights. DOH-CPH was 1/4 full, the 330-200 was so empty. CDG-DOH on A340-600 was 1/3.
Flew BKK-DOH-LHR v.v last month...same case on all 4 flights.
How much of it is due to people wanting to avoid the airport there when they have better alternative?
I think the new airport will allow QR to finally compete for customer on a level playing field, which they can't today.
garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2719 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16790 times:
I bet there are a few top level folks at Boeing telling AAB in their heads to "Go on, do it, plenty other operators would love to get their ships earlier than expected, and we'll be rid of your childish outbursts too."
: I like to believe Boeing (and Airbus) are better than that. This is hardly the first time AAB has theatened to cancel a Boeing order in favor of Airb
: Could it be that rumours are circulating that the 787 isn't performing up to spec? QR have a fleet of tried and tested 330s. Ordering more is not a ga
: Except the rumors - will, statements from operators, actually - are that the 787 is performing better than spec...
: That's exactly what he's probably doing. "Pay up or you lose our business." At this point, QR would be idiotic to walk away from the 787. They're goi
: A nitpick, but I understood the statements from operators to be more accurately "better than expected"..... Either way, it's the last reason to buy A
: Well Boeing hasn't delayed delivery indefinitely and QR won't take the planes due to the GEnx mid-fan issue and QR has a separate contract with GE fo
: QR has GE on their A330s. While possible they would switch to RR (better hot/high), I consider that unlikely. I consider the 787 order cancellation '
: Lightsaber, I'm aware of what QR has hanging from its 330s. I was speculating that it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility that AAB would teac
: If there is no delivery date still, then, by definition, delivery is indefinitely delayed. At this point, BOEING has not given a delivery date and as
: I expect Boeing has indeed given them a delivery date, QR just doesn't want to take delivery until they have GEnx engines attached that are not susce
: Not sure what Boeing could offer them as compensation, besides less money asked for the 787s. QR wants immediate growth, and cheaper 787s won't help
: Is there really space at DOH on tarmacs and runways to accomodate 24 more A330s? I know people are betting on the new aiport, but that is already ten
: It is unlikely that Airbus can accommodate a new set of deliveries for wide-bodies within 9 months. Furthermore, the customers like QR have highly cus
: Airbus said they were looking to cut A330 production target soon, if the dispute about emissions between Europe and China was not resolved. Hence thes
: Except that they've already got some A330s so the design work will of already been done. I've got a completly diferant theory in that QR has a cash p
: You might have a point if QR didn't already operate 29 A330s. [Edited 2012-10-03 01:15:16]
: QR's A330s are starting to get dated. So, new ones will most likely not get the same interior.
: The -200s maybe, but the last batch of the -300s were only delivered in 2008.
: No, this is quite far wide of the mark. Airlines don't pay for their new planes in cash they either lease them from a third party, which in all likel
: Those are still pretty new. Anyway, regarding the topic we will have to wait and see how AAB will play his cards in this "game". I guess it is a matt
: They can try. But Airbus has been awake to that game for years (as I'm sure Boeing is) and has said - many times - that they won't be used just to dr
: I like the way people talk of low loads as if it was important. Qatar Airways is a political vanity project, like the World Cup. Profits are an ideal,
: Consistent with their not taking A380s until the new wing fittings are in place.
: I would disagree, QR are very strict on costs and quality. They are not running an airline just for fun or to serve the country like Saudia or Gulf A
: Except Boeing does own GE Aviation and doesn't manufacture GEnx engines, so what, exactly, is Boeing supposed to do to secure revised GEnx engines? I
: I completely agree with you, a man can't build an airline to the status that QR know enjoys if he didn't understand this. Thats why in all likelihood
: From Akbar Al Baker himself: Reuters article on AAB's statement CBS Market Watch article on AAB's statement Saj Ahmad is tweeting that the EIS of the
: Gulp..I stand corrected, from what I heard the issue was due to THALES. I never took AAB as a man that wouldn't understand what was going on. Maybe I
: I believe part of the issue is also with the THALES IFE - specifically how the OnAir Internet service connects to it. Akbar Al Baker has also stated
: As a follow-up, Akbar Al Baker is now quoted in The Doha Press as noting that they are preparing to take delivery of their first 787-8, which will the