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Minoan Air States Plan To Start At Oxford W/F50s  
User currently offlinePe@rson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Independently-owned Greek carrier Minoan Air revealed at World Routes in Abu Dhabi this week that it is poised to launch services from the United Kingdom after announcing its intent to launch commercial passenger operations from London Oxford Airport.

Minoan Air's management team has now reached a tentative deal with London Oxford Airport to base up to three Fokker 50 turboprops at the facility to inaugurate flights to Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Dublin, Edinburgh and Munich from around January 2013, subject to final agreement. More routes are under examination and Minoan Air remains in talks with London Oxford Airport over a second phase of growth.

The new routes will be operated on a mix of daily and twice daily frequencies. "The frequency and departure time for each route will be tailored to the requirement of the business passenger for each specific route."

London Oxford network will be flown under Minoan Air's own brand. In view of its expansion into European markets, the carrier will migrate to Worldticket for reservations and distribution to all major GDS platforms.

Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/...ign=the-hub-world-event-daily-4-EU

Interesting development. Will be good to see what develops. Unsurprisingly, all but one (CPH) of its stated routes are desired from OXF with brief analysis/justification for each: http://www.therouteshop.com/london-oxford-airport/

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinef4f3a From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Mmm

Oxford is in Oxford not London!,!,!,!,

It also is very small don't see much scope for these routes .
Oxford is a very small city , it has been tried before and ended in failure .
With Heathrow just up the road I can't see this as being a contender.


User currently offlinevoodoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

It's only a F-50 so it may work. Long haul connections at DUB and AMS. The Oxford BMW-Mini plant connection at Munich. The bus fare to LHR from Oxford is 24 Pounds return (never mind parking at LHR) so they can tack that on plus
'a bit' and still compete with LHR fares.
Despite the national economy, the Oxford area is still quite well off.
Manx2 seems to be working from Oxford to IOM and Jersey despite BHX competition.

[Edited 2012-10-02 04:43:48]

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

Interesting to see this progressing, I'm staggered that some of these routes haven't been picked up already. I also know they aren't/weren't the only ones looking at OXF-EDI.

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 1):
It also is very small don't see much scope for these routes .
Oxford is a very small city

It's not the size of the city you need to look at, it's the size of the market. Oxford is one of the UK's top tourist destinations and has a large number of leading companies based in the city and wider area.

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 1):
it has been tried before and ended in failure .

Has it? Oxford to Edinburgh was tried, and would have been a huge success - I personally saw the advance bookings on that route, many flights were sold out even before the first service had taken off. That's unheard of in UK domestic aviation.

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 1):
With Heathrow just up the road I can't see this as being a contender.

It's 50 miles and an hour, usually more in traffic. And how many other very small cities/towns that far out have a dedicated coach link every 30 minutes to Heathrow - that says a lot about the propensity to fly in Oxford.


Dan  


User currently offlineGCT64 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
Oxford to Edinburgh was tried, and would have been a huge success - I personally saw the advance bookings on that route, many flights were sold out even before the first service had taken off.
OXF-EDI failed because of the "dodgy" operator not the route. I live on the M40 corridor closer to LHR than OXF but it would be easy to sell me on OXF over LHR with a quick small terminal to transit through and cheap/free car parking.

I've been looking forward to reliable OXF-EDI-OXF for many years ... where do I book?  

Edit ...

Checking the Minoan website: "Ticket sales for these routes will be available both online and from travel agencies by the middle of November 2012." I'll be looking for sales starting.

[Edited 2012-10-03 04:53:54]

User currently offlineMHG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Well, OXF-MUC would be a rather long route for a F50 ...

Although flight times of 2 - 2.5 hrs might still be bearable compared to other similarily sized turboprops and overall travel time to MUC is still likely to be less than shutteling to LHR and flying from there ...


User currently offlinevoodoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting MHG (Reply 5):

Well, OXF-MUC would be a rather long route for a F50 ...

Interestingly, according to the Great Circle router, both CPH and MUC are 629 miles from Oxford-Kidlington.


User currently offlineacelanzarote From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

What is OXF going to do about car parking/terminal/Car hire etc...as its always been mainly GA/Biz I presume these need to be sorted out if passinger numbers are really going to improve?

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 4):
OXF-EDI failed because of the "dodgy" operator not the route.

Exactly.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 4):
Checking the Minoan website: "Ticket sales for these routes will be available both online and from travel agencies by the middle of November 2012." I'll be looking for sales starting.

Hopefully. Three working days later and there is no official announcement, press release, tweet etc... from the airport concerning what is their biggest and most eagerly awaited news ever. I don't doubt that the market is there and that an operation can work, but something isn't right with this. EDI and DUB services were apparently very close, but it wasn't supposed to be Minoan announcing them.


Dan  


User currently offlineIH8BY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

I'll believe it when I see it, I suppose. And then, if I trust it, I'll book it.!

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 7):
What is OXF going to do about car parking/terminal/Car hire etc...as its always been mainly GA/Biz I presume these need to be sorted out if passinger numbers are really going to improve?

Apparently there's an Enterprise car rental place at OXF (you can be in town in 10 minutes), or it's less than 25 minutes to the centre of town by bus (far cheaper and you don't have to park!). Local travellers I assume will get there by taxi or bus. Let's face it - Oxford's never* going to be LHR, so it can probably get away with only a bit more than the capacity it has already.

*though nothing surprises me any more...


User currently offlinePe@rson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Here's ATW's article which contains some new details: http://atwonline.com/airports-routes...al-minoan-air-launch-uk-start-1003

User currently offlineKaiTak747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

EDI, DUB and AMS make sense but I'm not sure about CPH. Who are the target market for this flight?

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 1):
With Heathrow just up the road I can't see this as being a contender.

Many people find LHR a bit of a nightmare to fly through, especially for short haul. Bad traffic, expensive parking, long queues, delays...etc. OXF will work the same way as LCY, it will provide a much easier and quicker experience for passengers.


User currently offlineMHG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 11):
OXF will work the same way as LCY, it will provide a much easier and quicker experience for passengers.

  

I just hope they will significantly improve access by public transport and not limit themselves to passengers with a car ...
There´s a railway line passing along the airport - why not offering a stop as soon as pasenger numbers warrant it ?
(no station needed just a stop !)

[Edited 2012-10-04 13:03:48]

User currently offlineIH8BY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Quoting MHG (Reply 12):
I just hope they will significantly improve access by public transport and not limit themselves to passengers with a car ...
There´s a railway line passing along the airport - why not offering a stop as soon as pasenger numbers warrant it ?
(no station needed just a stop !)

I don't think the numbers involved would be significant enough to merit a stop, given that even the stop at a much larger airport, Durham Tees Valley, is practically unused and few trains stop there any more. Were Kidlington further from Oxford then I think the village on its own could easily sustain a rail link without the airport, but it's just too close to make a decent case for it.

Plenty of buses already go from Oxford to Kidlington (daytime service is every 5 minutes), on bus lanes practically all the way, but only about a quarter of those go as far as the airport. They're generally cleaner and more accessible than the local trains. Arguably all it would take is for more of those services to be extended to the airport and the demand for public transport should be covered.


User currently offlineaffirmative From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Transportation from OXF is generally no problem. Cabs are readily available from Kidlington and Oxford. Buses are a hassle since there are generally no buses between 10am and 15pm but I'm guessing this might change when/if they get more traffic. Parking is a joke. With Eurocopter and CAE/OAA it's full from 7.30-8am and the dedicated parking for pax is about 50 spaces. Would be interesting if they could finally extend the runway as well and add an ILS for RWY 01 too.. I've seen a BBJ land and take off at OXF but it must be quite tight performance wise for a normal 737 with a profitable load.

I'm quite interested how they will handle the extra traffic too.. It is very busy as it is with a lot of training going on all the time.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

Quoting f4f3a (Reply 1):
Oxford is in Oxford not London!,!,!,!,

But it is marketed as London/Oxford.


User currently onlineYVRLTN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4382 times:

Im a little confused as to why Minoan Air would operate these flights. I think it would fare better if launched by Flybe who the public are more aware of and have some backing, maybe using their Loganair subsidiary with Saab's or Dornier's to test the waters before going Q400.

User currently offlineMHG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 16):
Im a little confused as to why Minoan Air would operate these flights. I think it would fare better if launched by Flybe who the public are more aware of and have some backing, maybe using their Loganair subsidiary with Saab's or Dornier's to test the waters before going Q400.

Well, it´s most likely due to FlyBE not being interested.
(probably doesn´t fit into their actual strategy for whatever reason ...)
And on the local airline market there´s simply no one left that would be able (aircraftsize plus financial backing) to start such a "venture" ...

[Edited 2012-10-07 00:48:09]

User currently offlineflycro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

Could Eastern have launched a few routes if there was that much potential

User currently offlineGCT64 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Minoan Air's facebook site has been updated:

"The new London Oxford Airport airline, Minoan Air, will commence commercial flights during the last week of January 2013. Stay tuned for the schedule"

So we should get the initial schedule soon.


User currently offlinePe@rson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3768 times:

To me, it’s highly conspicuous – and peculiar – that nothing has been mentioned on OXF’s website.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3740 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 16):
I think it would fare better if launched by Flybe who the public are more aware of and have some backing, maybe using their Loganair subsidiary with Saab's or Dornier's to test the waters before going Q400.
Quoting MHG (Reply 17):
Well, it´s most likely due to FlyBE not being interested.
(probably doesn´t fit into their actual strategy for whatever reason ...)

FlyBe were apparently very close to launching EDI with LoganAir Saab 340s. My understanding is that this deal was several years in the making, and that Minoan have essentially crashed the party at the last minute.

Quoting flycro (Reply 18):
Could Eastern have launched a few routes if there was that much potential

I think it would be pretty marginal with their aircraft. Neither the Saab 2000 or Jetstream 41 have particularly good performance when it's hot, hence why the planned OXF-PMI charters by Eastern's S2000 were going to be departing first thing in the morning. Even then they were badly weight restricted and ended up being cancelled.

On the topic of weight restriction, good luck getting an F50 to MUC or CPH with a half decent load in summer.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19):
Minoan Air's facebook site has been updated:

Yet still no press release from Oxford, not even a tweet. I don't think they are happy bunnies with this.


Dan  


User currently offlinePe@rson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 21):
Yet still no press release from Oxford, not even a tweet.
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 20):
To me, it’s highly conspicuous – and peculiar – that nothing has been mentioned on OXF’s website.

I emailed OXF a week or so ago to see if they would disclose anything. Unsurprisingly, they did not.


User currently offlineLJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19):
Minoan Air's facebook site has been updated:

"The new London Oxford Airport airline, Minoan Air, will commence commercial flights during the last week of January 2013. Stay tuned for the schedule"

So we should get the initial schedule soon.

I doubt AMS will commence in January as the AMS slot allocation lists doesn't show any slots for Minoan Air for W12


User currently offlineb735 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

Quote:
On the topic of weight restriction, good luck getting an F50 to MUC or CPH with a half decent load in summer.
Quote:
Interestingly, according to the Great Circle router, both CPH and MUC are 629 miles from Oxford-Kidlington.



From their website: http://minoanair.com/en/About

Minoan has the flexibility to promptly respond to any charter requests, within the range of the a/c, which on full payload can fly 930 nautical miles nonstop, destinations that include Warsaw, Zurich, Milan, Algiers, Cairo, Beirut, Kiev and other destinations from Athens.

It appears that these a/c can make the trip without weight restrictions!

B735


25 Post contains images PlymSpotter : No, because that doesn't factor runway distance, which is a limiting factor at Oxford. I have performance charts for the F50, the aircraft will be we
26 Post contains images YVRLTN : Well, speaking for myself, if I have a business meeting or must get to event to attend, I think I would be reluctant booking with these guys too much
27 GCT64 : Still nothing from OXF about these flights ..... meanwhile on the Minoan Facebook page: Malcolm Ross McFadyen: Have you actually told 'London' Oxford
28 GSTBA : I have to agree. Flybe operated by Loganair makes far more sense for the route to EDI from OXF. The SF3 or even a Scot Airways D328 would be perfect
29 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Interesting, but I'm unconvinced. They'd be aware of the plans from reading the online reports, and to me 'several meetings' for an operation like th
30 bjorn14 : A little bit OT but I heard that OXF was going to extend the runway. Any news on that?
31 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Not for now, but I believe they will eventually. They have recently widened the runway and upgraded from being a Cat 2C aerodrome to cat 3C, meaning
32 bjorn14 : I know there is a Lineage 1000 based there but that's a far cry (weight-wise) from a loaded E190.
33 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Unless they want to utilise the upper extent of their range then the E-Jets, especially the 170 and 190, aren't practically limited from OXF in passe
34 GCT64 : I think that is a very fair assessment. The OXF website covers every little detail of the Manx flights (last updated on 17 Oct with a detailed news i
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