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PIA To Suspend AMS, MAN And CPH?  
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10272 times:

Amsterdam and Manchester will be suspended from the end of October. Turkish airlines will through a codeshare agreement with PIA, offer connections from the suspended cities. Paris is also due for closure early 2013.

According to the article,, CPH and CDG is their worst performing destination. From what I hear, CPH will be served until PIA decides to how it will serve OSL. A new route structure for OSL will be presented around Christmas, leaving OSL to be likely connected as a one stop to Toronto.

PIA admits that their Oslo are performing exceptionally with the highest average yield within all it's network.
As mentioned earlier, PIA has also done several attempts to link Houston via OSL, but the local oil and gas industry have not been to enthusiastic about their plans. Wonder why ......  



[Edited 2012-10-02 10:51:04]

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10187 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
Amsterdam and Manchester will be suspended from the end of October.

Do you have a source?

In 2006, outside of the Middle-East, MAN was PK's best performing route. Granted, many things have changed since then, but I would be surprised if MAN was the first to go. For starters, why would PK order additional 77Ws if they were going to withdraw?


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12518 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

So, how would they propose to fly to the US if MAN were cut; could they serve the US via OSL?

User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3318 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10077 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
PIA admits that their Oslo are performing exceptionally with the highest average yield within all it's network.

can you put a bit more flesh on these bones?



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineTK1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10026 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
Turkish airlines will through a codeshare agreement with PIA

So the previously proposed joint venture will continue only in the form of a codeshare agreement?



"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9998 times:

Here is the link presenting the closure of MAN and AMS.

Quote:
LAHORE - For, what aviation analysts term, implementation of an agreement between the Pakistan International Airlines and the Turk Hava Yollari, the PIA is going to cease its Manchester and Amsterdam operation from October 26 without prior notice to passengers who had made reservations, sources said on Friday.According to the THY-PIA deal, the national airline is bound to operate direct flights only to London, Toronto, Oslo, Paris and Copenhagen
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-ne...manchester-amsterdam-ops-from-26th


User currently offlineBlueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9977 times:

Well, if TK are to take all the traffic flow from Pakistan to MAN, they'll be putting A333s on the route daily.

I just don't see how TK can take on the massive passenger numbers Pakistan enjoy on their services.

As has already been mentioned, what is going to happen to the USA services if MAN is being dropped?

I just simply can not see it happening, and PK have already officially denied this rumour.

http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opti...tent&task=view&id=210001&Itemid=38


Rgds

[Edited 2012-10-02 10:25:28]


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9947 times:
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Rumour denied via a PIA press release on this link !

http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opti...ntent&task=view&id=210001&Itemid=2

[Edited 2012-10-02 10:26:58]

User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9912 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Man I hope this isn't true! Their 313 is one of the very few exotic carriers we get at AMS. They are a joy to fly on too!

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3680 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9903 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
As mentioned earlier, PIA has also done several attempts to link Houston via OSL, but the local oil and gas industry have not been to enthusiastic about their plans. Wonder why ......

As interesting as PK wanting to restart IAH, I highly doubt it. Their best bet is to go for the codeshare with TK as TK is about to start IST-IAH services 01Apr13.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9846 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 3):
can you put a bit more flesh on these bones?

Well, it's been presented serveral times in the local press here along with some articles in Pakistanian medias.
It's also been presented by some of the Pakistanian airliners members in other threads regarding PIA.
Copenhagen used to have simmalar perfomance untill Gulf, Emirates, Turkish and Qatar entered the market. From what I hear, Gulf Air have taken most of it. According to the Pakistani Embassy in Norway, the Pakistani community also enjoys the highest level of average income and educational level that of any other oversea settlements of Pakistanis. A privilege for PIA who have enjoyed a very pleasant yield and high fares from OSL ever since they started the service.

I have also had the pleasure to be involved in a process of linking Oslo to Houston through a direct service where PIA where did it last attempt in 2011. I still have the pleasure to enjoy some first line information of what is going on @ OSL  

The problem with OSL and CPH is that they are to small to operate individually. OSL have a higher number of native pakistanians than Denmark and PIA have therefore been operating some flights direct to OSL as a third aditional weekly service. However the 777-200/300 are in general too big for a direct service to OSL and a combination with another destination would be the key for a future sustainable service.


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9776 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 7):
Rumour denied via a PIA press release on this link !

http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?opti...ask=view&id=210001&Itemid=2[Edited 2012-10-02 10:26:58]

Thanks, however the suspention of CPH is nothing new and is the very reason reason why several new suggestions have been presented for OSL during the last two years. To be honest, I'm more supprised of why they keep BCN to their network.


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9732 times:

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 9):
As interesting as PK wanting to restart IAH, I highly doubt it. Their best bet is to go for the codeshare with TK as TK is about to start IST-IAH services 01Apr13.

I do agree, but what suprised me was the depth of their attempt. They confronted many potential costumers directly through an agent, but the response where very modest to say at least.

[Edited 2012-10-02 11:00:04]

User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3318 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 10):

Thanks,interesting times.

[Edited 2012-10-03 05:14:06]


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
According to the article,, CPH and CDG is their worst performing destination.

What article are you referring to? In the link you provided later in the thread there is a comment about them being loss-inflicting.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
PIA admits that their Oslo are performing exceptionally with the highest average yield within all it's network.

Where in the article did you find this?

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 10):
The problem with OSL and CPH is that they are to small to operate individually.

I suppose that's why they have been operating as tag-on destinations.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 10):
Copenhagen used to have simmalar perfomance untill Gulf, Emirates, Turkish and Qatar entered the market. From what I hear, Gulf Air have taken most of it.

Isn't it evident that EK will join QR at serving OSL sooner or later and then expose PIA to the same competition as they have experience in CPH?



Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 14):
What article are you referring to? In the link you provided later in the thread there is a comment about them being loss-inflicting.


Confront one of PIA's representatives and they will provide you with the information. They told us 
They are openly seeking new ways of serving OSL because of the great impact the Gulf carriers have had on their CPH operations. Look at some of the fares (also business) offered through PIA to Asia from CPH, and you will find it too cheap to even dear to consider a trip!

The one refered to in this thread:

Quote:
The PIA could have temporarily suspended its loss-inflicting routes like Copenhagen, Paris, Barcelona
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-ne...manchester-amsterdam-ops-from-26th

Its also refered to in Norwegian aviation media:

Quote:
I følge talsmannen for PIA skal den svært så lite lukrative ruten som i dag går til København ha blitt vurdert å legges ned også fra samme dato. Selskapet har allikevel valgt å holde den oppe en stund til framover. Men ruten til Danmark er et rent tapsprosjekt og selskapet vil ta en ny vurdering etter jul.
http://www.hangar.no/pia-kutter-stort-i-europa-kobenhavn-star-i-fare/

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 14):
Where in the article did you find this?


Read the whole tread as your question has already been answered.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 14):
I suppose that's why they have been operating as tag-on destinations.

Correct, but OSL as a profitable destination will not be a money maker unless it's combined with the right kind of destination. Serving OSL directly would probably resulting in reduced capacity and a less attractive product (if it ever could be said about PIA). About 60% of the traffic with PIA to/from Scandinavia is bound to/from OSL.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 14):
Isn't it evident that EK will join QR at serving OSL sooner or later and then expose PIA to the same competition as they have experience in CPH?


It's tempting to agree with you, but as usual I do not think you have studied the numbers and the market potential. Norway have twice as many Pakistanis as Denmark (39.000 NO - 21.000DK).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistanis_in_norway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistanis_in_Denmark
Almost 10% of the medical students in Oslo are of Pakistani heritage. The figure is significant as Pakistani Norwegians only constitute 3.67% of Oslo's population. The proportion of Pakistani Norwegians, born and raised in Norway, in higher education at university level is higher than the Norwegian national average. Amongst Pakistani Norwegians born and raised in Pakistan the share is 17%, the same as the average for Norwegian immigrants in general.
According to the Pakistani Embassy in Norway, the Pakistani community also enjoys the highest level of average income and educational level that of any other oversea settlements of Pakistanis. A privilege for PIA who have enjoyed a very pleasant yield and high fares from OSL ever since they started the service.
It's easily also reflected when you look into the numbers of their business bookings as the waste majority of seats are booked to/from Oslo. Qatar have done several attempt to dig into this lucrative market from OSL with low fares and focus on product, but PIA is surprisingly hardy affected. They local passengers seems very loyal although there have been some previous complains about their high fares and lack of competition from Oslo.
Emirates will definitely have an impact on PIA's operations to/from OSL, but the market are twice as big from OSL with a significant more yield bringing load so It could work, even with more gulf carriers present.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5845 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
PIA has also done several attempts to link Houston via OSL, but the local oil and gas industry have not been to enthusiastic about their plans. Wonder why .

There is nothing to wonder, who would fly PIA on the route? the clueless?


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

They did actually invite the largest companies to discuss a Houston service. But the response was not very enthusiastic to say at least. A representative visited several companies. I have also some difficulties to See why they even would have considered that link. To this date, it all seems to be an ever increasing wierd attempt!
I think it was in April or may last year it happend.


User currently offlinetayaramecanici From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

In the month of August, i checked the pax loads on PIA & EK, on the internal dep screens at BHX on the days i worked, Approx 15 in a 4x4 shift.
EK eve flt departs approx 90min after PIA. Both operate the B777.

PIA: Averaged 200/flt
EK: Averaged 350/flt

Considering it was school holidays and the month of ramzan, i was expecting PIA to do better.



''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Why expect PIA to do better ?

PIA are, essentially point to point, not alligned to many online reservations portals.

EK, however, are essentially, point to point, and all stops Africa, middle east, far east and Oceana.

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 16):
There is nothing to wonder, who would fly PIA on the route? the clueless?

According to this thread and article, the ide of a Houston service with PIA is nothing new.

PIA To Go Pakistan-Houston Nonstop '06

PIA To Go Pakistan-Houston Nonstop '06 (by Drerx7 Feb 22 2005 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3680 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 17):
They did actually invite the largest companies to discuss a Houston service. But the response was not very enthusiastic to say at least. A representative visited several companies. I have also some difficulties to See why they even would have considered that link. To this date, it all seems to be an ever increasing wierd attempt!

IAH-OSL makes some sense, but IAH-BGO makes better sense to capture oil traffic. I think PK wants to take a page from SQ since their IAH-DME-SIN route has reasonably done well with the hopes of getting 5th freedom to do IAH-OSL. Yet, I would say that a rather weak frequent flyer program, minimal network reach, and lack of alliance partners are contributing factors for the lack of enthusiasm among those companies that would do IAH-OSL.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 20):

According to this thread and article, the ide of a Houston service with PIA is nothing new.

PIA To Go Pakistan-Houston Nonstop '06

PK had an odd schedule when they did serve IAH. They used a combination of KHI / ISB / LHE-MAN-IAH. It was a treat when their 777s with regional tails added a splash of color to the usual suspects at IAH.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

Bergen - Houston? OSL and SVG have almost identical annual ammount of pax to Houston with Bergen serving far less.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5845 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

PIA only operated original flag tailed 777-200 and later regional tail 747-200 to IAH, never regional tailed 777s AFAIK.

User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3680 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3570 times:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 22):
Bergen - Houston? OSL and SVG

Oops! Not BGO, I meant SVG.

Quoting 777way (Reply 23):

I remember a tail similar to this one at IAH. I don't remember date nor registration.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Posch - VAP




The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5845 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

The above 777 was delivered in March 2007 and PK suspended IAH in winter 2006, it was the only 772 to wear regional tail, the 77W with these tails came much later, AFAIK regional tailed 777s never saw Houston.

747-200M reg BAT had similar tail as the 777 pic, infact PK had changed aircraft to 747M on the route after a year of service, maybe you saw that, the other was a blue floral design on BAK.

[Edited 2012-10-06 10:29:06]

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