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Delta: Stellar Q3 2012 Results  
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1213 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13860 times:
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The 8K Delta filed with the SEC today includes some indications of a phenomenal 3rd quarter.
For the full 8K which summarizes September results but more importantly gives some strong hints of what the Q3 2012 numbers will reflect are available for download at:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=71481&p=irol-sec

Guidance September Quarter 2012:
Operating margin 10 - 11%
Cargo and other revenue $1.2 billion
Fuel price per gallon, adjusted $3.15
Profit sharing expense $175 million
Non-operating expense $260 million
Capital expenditures $400 – 450 million
Interestingly also they expect a mark to mark adjustment on fuel hedges of about PLUS $450mm which basically wipes ot the MINUS $500mm mark to mark adjustment for Q2 2012.
That is really a strong indication of how volatile the fuel environment has been in the last 6 months.
More Interestingly they are already ascribing some of the current month Sept cost of fuel as benefiting from Delta's new fuel supply program, short-speak for the start up of the Trainer refinery.

Can't overlook a September completion factor of 99.8% and on time index of 89.4%.
The entire Delta team seems to be working very seriously without a lot of fanfare on getting the job done.
Maybe a new motto is in order as tag on to Delta Climbing: If you have to positively absolutely get there, and also get there on time, Fly Delta Jets! (credit to fedex for the inspiration)


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedeltadc9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13749 times:

Thanks for that, does anyone remember when Delta was year after year the only really profitable airline? I am starting to wonder if those days have returned with the refinery, the conservative approach to fleet managment, the service qualtiy improvments and other good signs like miles that don't expire.

I am actually thinking about getting back into Delta's common stock.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8777 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13690 times:

Remember, Delta is a couple years further along in the merger process than UA is. Of course, industry consolidation will result in big profits for carriers and higher costs to consumers. This is what we would expect. Delta ought to be making real money now, and they are.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13037 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Remember, Delta is a couple years further along in the merger process than UA is.

This is true, but it is indeed notable how well DL pulled the merger off and the decisions they've been making lately. Not saying UA is screwing up royally, I think DL just played their cards excellently.

I remember reading posts on this board from 2005 about how much DL sucked, and they really did. I'm so glad they turned their game around 



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12952 times:

Great news for DL and all the thousands of former NWA employees who are now helping to make this merged carrier into a great one!

User currently offlinemah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12779 times:

Had a really great experience flying Delta recently. I think their first class fares as of late are very reasonable and the F.A's provided excellent service. A tip of the hat to all at Delta.

-mah584jr


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12268 times:

Quoting deltadc9 (Reply 1):
Thanks for that, does anyone remember when Delta was year after year the only really profitable airline? I am starting to wonder if those days have returned with the refinery, the conservative approach to fleet managment, the service qualtiy improvments and other good signs like miles that don't expire.

Yes, I do......most of the years that I worked at DL, in fact.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12223 times:

Of course your financials will shine when you have some of the lowest labor costs in the industry. I mean come on...who else provides their employees health plans with the lowest deductible available being $1,150 for individual coverage?

Delta people are giving their company their best and the results are shown in the 99.8% completion factor and 89.4% on-time index. Now if only their company would reward them fairly...but I won't hold my breath.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12189 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
Now if only their company would reward them fairly...but I won't hold my breath.

Ever heard of profit sharing??



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12192 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
who else provides their employees health plans with the lowest deductible available being $1,150 for individual coverage?

Just curious, what is the portion that you pay monthly for that type of coverage?



"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12187 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
Now if only their company would reward them fairly...but I won't hold my breath.

2 words: profit sharing  

Most the DL employees I know (not just pilots) are pretty pleased with DL



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12171 times:

I like a lot of the things Delta is doing lately (as a passenger), but I'm pretty leary of them financially since reading of their smoke and mirrors approach of padding their financials by having wildly inflated estimates of returns on pension assumptions. I hope it doesn't come back to bite them - or that the information is misleading.

User currently offlineericaasen From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12099 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
Of course your financials will shine when you have some of the lowest labor costs in the industry. I mean come on...who else provides their employees health plans with the lowest deductible available being $1,150 for individual coverage?

Of which you only actually have to pay $650. Since the $500 you get every year in the HRA can be used to help pay your deductible. If you don't use all of your $500 it's rolled over to the next year so you'd have to only pay $150 in year two, and $0 in year three and beyond. Which isn't that bad if you ask me.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11738 times:

Quoting ericaasen (Reply 12):
Of which you only actually have to pay $650. Since the $500 you get every year in the HRA can be used to help pay your deductible. If you don't use all of your $500 it's rolled over to the next year so you'd have to only pay $150 in year two, and $0 in year three and beyond. Which isn't that bad if you ask me.

Still a $650 out of your pocket...and the annual max is $3,000. That "$500" will be reduced in 2014.

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
Just curious, what is the portion that you pay monthly for that type of coverage?

For an active employee it's $86, for a retiree it's around $790.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
2 words: profit sharing  

Which in 2013 is being reduced by 33%!!!!!! From 15% of profits to 10% of profits.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11734 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 11):
I hope it doesn't come back to bite them - or that the information is misleading.

I think it's the latter......if it's the article I'm thinking about, it was only brought to light by ONE blogger and there was so much other misleading info in what he said, that his credibility was severely strained, in my opinion.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11587 times:

Airlines are going to post great Q3 numbers. Nothing happened to slow them down. It will be interesting again to see all the results.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
2 words: profit sharing

Which won't go to the employees who really need it (DCI). Without them, Delta doesn't have a profitable airline.

I'm sorry, but to me DL's profit sharing system is a sham in the current airline business model. It's a fine idea if everyone that helped with the profit shared in it. Morally I couldn't have a system that rewards only a percentage of the contributors.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11543 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
Which won't go to the employees who really need it (DCI). Without them, Delta doesn't have a profitable airline.

Delta is Delta. There are a lot of things that allow Delta to be responsible (like airports) but different payroll



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11455 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):

I'm sorry, but to me DL's profit sharing system is a sham in the current airline business model. It's a fine idea if everyone that helped with the profit shared in it. Morally I couldn't have a system that rewards only a percentage of the contributors.

Then the companies that those people actually work for, the contractors, are the ones that should be sharing THEIR profits with their employees. I suppose, in your eyes, the DL employees have done nothing to earn that profit sharing.....that it's ALL the DCI carriers that are turning the profits? That DL should pay some of its profits to people that don't even, legally, work for them?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11324 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
Which won't go to the employees who really need it (DCI). Without them, Delta doesn't have a profitable airline.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Delta and the DCI carrier sign a contract and the DCI carrier provides Delta a service. This contract has a margin for profit for the DCI carrier. You want profit sharing...you should get it from your DCI carrier. It's like saying the workers of a utility company should get profit sharing from all the companies that use electricity...because without power they couldn't make a profit.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11250 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Which in 2013 is being reduced by 33%!!!!!! From 15% of profits to 10% of profits.

That's only on the first $1B or whatever it is. It'st still whatever the rate is now after the threshold. And just to be clear, this is what the employees wanted. They wanted more pay in their pocket and less of it being gambled on what Delta may or may not make during the year. Delta above and below wing employees (plus F/As), come next year will be the highest paid of all majors minus WN. Please tell the whole story.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
I'm sorry, but to me DL's profit sharing system is a sham in the current airline business model. It's a fine idea if everyone that helped with the profit shared in it. Morally I couldn't have a system that rewards only a percentage of the contributors.

Ev has had their own profit sharing plan for years...nothing to do with DL. They have their own bottom line.

Just an example...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinegaystudpilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11236 times:

RE: Financial performance

1) How is DL doing with "Win New York"? How is winning measured?

2) How is DL doing with "Monetize First Class"?


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11147 times:

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 20):
1) How is DL doing with "Win New York"? How is winning measured?

"Winning In NYC" Basically being the premiere NYC airline (as far as I know)

According to all statements made since the slot swap and quoting Ed Bastian; LGA is doing "swimmingly well".
-Corporate contracts are up.
-FF base has grown quite a few percentage points. In the last investor presentation given a couple weeks ago, they've seen concrete evidence that corporate traffic (premium traffic in general) is deflecting from AA. Or is at least giving DL business they didn't have before.
-The D/C connector bridge is on track
-The US Airways club on C was recently reopened as a fully renovated SkyClub. Currently building out the second club on D and will measure about 10,000 sq.ft.; one of the largest in the system.
-Delta Shuttle is all DCI. Costs on the routes have gone down quite a bit due to the lower costs of CP/S5 and the E-Jets
-JFK T4 is exactly on schedule and will be open and ready for business next year.

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 20):


2) How is DL doing with "Monetize First Class"?

First Class up sells are the name of the game. If they can get someone to pay for it they will. That's something ongoing.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10964 times:

The profit sharing check however big or small someone may think it is is better then 0$. And a 0$ profit sharing check is exactly what majority of employees get in this industry. DL needs to ring out every dollar worth of profit while it can before another disaster man made our natural occurs, not saying it will happen but it could. I see the reactions when DL announces billion + profit for the quarter and the questions come out why this or that more for the employees. But the simple truth of the reality is that it can't happen like that, if DL prices it's self to high it will lose customers and money to the carriers that have lower labor costs and BK here we come again. It's not like this money will go to bonuses and profit sharing for the stock holders and the owners of the company. DL still has 12B$ of debt to pay off, it needs hundreds of millions every year on plane investments to keep the interiors modern and attractive for passengers to fly on so they don't go to the competition, and DL will still need tens of billions of dollars to replace hundreds and hundreds of airplanes coming up on retirement in the next decade. I have read the pension article Major is taking about and how ever misleading it is and factually wrong there is still the fact that the pension is still billions of dollars underfunded, how many billions I don't know but if it's 5, 10, 15, or 20+ billions like the article claims is still a substantial amount of money. So before you start saying DL should give more money to this and that look at where it needs to go on top of employee salaries.

User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9702 times:

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
Just curious, what is the portion that you pay monthly for that type of coverage?
Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
For an active employee it's $86, for a retiree it's around $790.

Family coverage will be $247. The OOA option has higher premiums for both.

Both deductibles and coinsurance max will see significant increases for the plan OOer is discussing.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
That's only on the first $1B or whatever it is. It'st still whatever the rate is now after the threshold. And just to be clear, this is what the employees wanted. They wanted more pay in their pocket and less of it being gambled on what Delta may or may not make during the year.

I wasn't asked, but would've voted for it. I prefer my $$ in my hands now, as opposed to waiting on something that may or may not occur, and a distribution formula that changes annually.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
Ev has had their own profit sharing plan for years

I'm curious about their plan. Any info you can provide?



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9457 times:

Quoting deltadc9 (Reply 1):
I am actually thinking about getting back into Delta's common stock.

Delta is doing well, but I would be leery of their huge pension plan deficit. It's over $11 billion.

http://www.pionline.com/article/20120725/DAILYREG/120729923

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Still a $650 out of your pocket...and the annual max is $3,000. That "$500" will be reduced in 2014.

  I work for a large defense contractor and have a $500 deductible. We should get SPEEA in here to organize the place.  

David


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9462 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
Delta above and below wing employees (plus F/As), come next year will be the highest paid of all majors minus WN. Please tell the whole story.

Really?

Continental, Southwest, Alaska, and Hawaiian all still have a better benefits package.


It can also be argued that United flight attendants also have a better overall package. Much better health insurance options including an HMO option free of charge for the entire family (on premium alone that's almost $4,000 per year in savings), higher profit sharing now that Delta has reduced theirs, night pay which Delta doesn't have, higher purser pay, and substantially better work rules for crewmembers.

It's kind of like someone bragging about making $15 per hour with 0 benefits when everyone else is making $14 per hours with medical and retirement. Make sense?


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8856 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Still a $650 out of your pocket...and the annual max is $3,000

Ugh. I work for a well regarded tech company and have it worse than that. Things aren't like they used to be.

Quoting mayor (Reply 14):
I think it's the latter......if it's the article I'm thinking about, it was only brought to light by ONE blogger and there was so much other misleading info in what he said, that his credibility was severely strained, in my opinion.

I hope that's true. I'm not that astute with those sorts of financials.


User currently onlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1160 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8900 times:
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Quoting OOer (Reply 13):

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
Just curious, what is the portion that you pay monthly for that type of coverage?

For an active employee it's $86, for a retiree it's around $790.
Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
Of course your financials will shine when you have some of the lowest labor costs in the industry. I mean come on...who else provides their employees health plans with the lowest deductible available being $1,150 for individual coverage?

I am a retired Northwest Airlines employee. Delta pays my pension.
However, I get my medical insurance through my wife's former employer. There is NO monthly premium and an annual benefit deduction of $500 for each of us. No strings attached. Beats Delta hands down. If I had taken Northwest's medical insurance for retirees it would have be $275 a month with prescription medications for each of us. I doubt if Delta is still honoring that.   



Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 27):
If I had taken Northwest's medical insurance for retirees it would have be $275 a month with prescription medications for each of us. I doubt if Delta is still honoring that.   

That was a contractual provision and since the CBA is no longer i effect that is also gone. The premium for retirees is now $790 per month...a 287% increase.


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Which in 2013 is being reduced by 33%!!!!!! From 15% of profits to 10% of profits.

That's not accurate and you know it. You need to tell the whole story to retain credibility.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
Which won't go to the employees who really need it (DCI). Without them, Delta doesn't have a profitable airline.

That's something to take up with YOUR DCI company...you have your own profit margins.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 23):
I wasn't asked, but would've voted for it. I prefer my $$ in my hands now, as opposed to waiting on something that may or may not occur, and a distribution formula that changes annually.

If you work for Delta you had the opportunity to make your voice heard. However, it worked out well for you as well as I, too, would rather have cash in hand each month than the gamble that we would or wouldn't make a payout!

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 26):
Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Still a $650 out of your pocket...and the annual max is $3,000

I'm pretty pleased with my ins. I had a high deductible this year, but even still, with my surgery, I knew EXACTLY my total out-of-pocket (and could budget for it) and I have the option to "trade down or up" each year; not a one size fits all!

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 23):
Both deductibles and coinsurance max will see significant increases for the plan OOer is discussing.

Why are we discussing "assumed" numbers for 2014 when we're only now getting ready for 2013 open enrollment?

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 22):
So before you start saying DL should give more money to this and that look at where it needs to go on top of employee salaries.

Thank you PIE! DL is a business; not a charity--for pax or employees. There are MANY "customers" and "share holders" per se with dogs in this fight. I could welcome more $ in my monthly check; I know few who'd disagree. However, if that dime an hour more could affect fleet modernization, or lower premiums, or debt relief, I'm paying more than the value of that dime!
OOer: are you a DL emp? You seem to have some "info" but it also seems quite skewed; and frankly doesn't move the Company forward. It carries some of the harsh overtones of the people who think DL (or, I'd guess any company that doesn't do what you want) is horrible and a bad place to work.

Delta owes me a safe place to work, a living wage and professional development. I owe Delta safe, professional performance, timeliness and loyalty. It's a two way street.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8648 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
That's not accurate and you know it. You need to tell the whole story to retain credibility.

This is the whole story. The planned reduction in profit sharing first surfaced during ALPA negotiations. Pilots received an immediate 4% raise followed by an 8% raise on Jan 1st. To offset part of that cost the profit sharing was trimmed and other employees were given a lame reason for it plus a raise substantially smaller than what ALPA received.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
I'm pretty pleased with my ins. I had a high deductible this year, but even still, with my surgery, I knew EXACTLY my total out-of-pocket (and could budget for it) and I have the option to "trade down or up" each year; not a one size fits all!

My example used the plan with the "lowest" deductible. If you want to trade up to one of the plans with a $3,000 deductible then be my guest.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
Thank you PIE! DL is a business; not a charity--for pax or employees.

You mean the same employees that BOUGHT Delta a 767, and the same employees who are making 40% less today than they were 15 years ago (adjusted for inflation)?


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8669 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Remember, Delta is a couple years further along in the merger process than UA is.

This is true, but it is indeed notable how well DL pulled the merger off and the decisions they've been making lately.

Even though I'm definitely not one of the DL fanboys, I do not feel DL gets the credit they deserve on ANet for how well the merger has gone.

DL was able to merge a non-union airline with a heavily unionized carrier with only minimal drama. The two airlines had only one aircraft type in common, the 757, but they were able to successfully re deploy aircraft around the merged system to make the best use of their capabilities (777s in DTW, MD-90s in MSP, Airbii in SLC, etc).

DL and NW truly are one airline now, at a time when pre-merger CO employees still identify themselves as such on aircraft public address systems, and US and HP seniority lists have yet to be combined.

I think that even five years from now, UA/CO will not be as completely integrated as DL is, and I shudder to think what a disaster US will be, especially if it goes from US+HP to US+HP+AA. This will enable DL to provide much better returns to their employees and shareholders than UA/CO and US/HP or US/HP/AA.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8146 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
Why are we discussing "assumed" numbers for 2014 when we're only now getting ready for 2013 open enrollment?

The insurance numbers I posted are not "assumed." They're the 2013 rates.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8777 posts, RR: 3
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8020 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 31):
DL and NW truly are one airline now, at a time when pre-merger CO employees still identify themselves as such on aircraft public address systems, and US and HP seniority lists have yet to be combined.

DL has done the merger well. Nobody doubts it. It took 10 years really since the dance began. Even if UA and CO do it 50% less well, it will still be a fully integrated, highly profitable company. I am just suggesting it is unfair to contrast them at this point. If anything, UA and CO's efficiency gains from network rebalancing will be even greater than Delta's.

HP and US.. sigh... yes they have 2 crew groups, but they have far fewer fleets than the above 2 airlines, so overall they are as efficient as any carrier.

So yeah, good going, Delta. Looking good, honestly.


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 32):
Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
Why are we discussing "assumed" numbers for 2014 when we're only now getting ready for 2013 open enrollment?

The insurance numbers I posted are not "assumed." They're the 2013 rates.

I wasn't quoting you...

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):
Still a $650 out of your pocket...and the annual max is $3,000. That "$500" will be reduced in 2014.

This was my ref.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1213 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7599 times:
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175million in estimated profit sharing to employees generated just this one most recent quarter is not exactly chopped liver.
If the old compensation model was recognizeably not the most efficient, the profit sharing payouts from Delta are at a level where they should get the attention of employees.

When you look over the quarterly revenue estimates it is quite obvious that DCI is shrinking about 10% per year whereas mainline is staying even. Pretty much all of the overall reduction in Delta RPM's is coming from the Connection side.. With the 50 seaters drawdown over the next 4-6 years DCI will probably only end up only represent about 8% of overall RPM's compared to barely over 12% today. In fact I was surprised to realize that DCI RPM expressed as a percentage of overall RPM was already that low, I was still under the mistaken impression it was upwards of 15%.



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 35):
175million in estimated profit sharing to employees generated just this one most recent quarter is not exactly chopped liver.

Divide that by about 60,000 employees and you get a much smaller number. Then, take into consideration that that number is given out based on your earnings with the company.

So...

For example a 3rd year first officer on the DC9 will take home twice as much as a flight attendant that's been around for 40 years, lost her pension, and bought Delta a 767. That number becomes "triple" the amount (or more) of a ramper that's also been around for decades and also saw his pension vanish and contributed to buying Delta a 767.

A 3rd year flight attendant will take home 1/4 what a 3rd year first officer will in profit sharing...just to put it in comparison.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

OOer...ugh. Seems u are not happy with DL..time to look for something else maybe?? In case you haven't noticed most corporations have downgraded their healthcare insurance. Yeah it sucks but as we say...get the f@*k over it dude. It's a new world  

I for one am very happy to see these results. Still a long way to go! Congrats to all DL employees for a job well done


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8978 posts, RR: 39
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Quoting Coronado (Thread starter):
That is really a strong indication of how volatile the fuel environment has been in the last 6 months.

That's how hedging works. Sometimes you win, sometimes the bank wins. If you are doing it right in the end it's a wash.

The point of this whole exercise is to deal with price volatility, not to starting making money on the side.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16909 posts, RR: 51
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 31):
CO employees still identify themselves as such on aircraft public address systems,

What flight were you on?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 37):
In case you haven't noticed most corporations have downgraded their healthcare insurance. Yeah it sucks but as we say...get the f@*k over it dude. It's a new world

I don't know of any profitable airline that has made their employees health benefits worse (in the US) in the past 6-7 years...except Delta who got rid of their PPO option in 2008 and now only has high deductible plans. Those high deductible plans are getting worse in 2013 at a time when the employees made it possible for Delta to be the most profitable US airline.

Even AA's employees bankruptcy health insurance is better than what Delta employees get. Now that's sad...


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 40):
I don't know of any profitable airline that has made their employees health benefits worse (in the US) in the past 6-7 years...except Delta who got rid of their PPO option in 2008 and now only has high deductible plans. Those high deductible plans are getting worse in 2013 at a time when the employees made it possible for Delta to be the most profitable US airline.

Broaden your horizon to something outside airlines. Highly successful, profitable companies that people lust for jobs with do not typically have better insurance than you are describing. Companies that haven't been bankrupt, lost money for more than a quarter and who hold no debt.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 40):
Those high deductible plans are getting worse in 2013 at a time when the employees made it possible for Delta to be the most profitable US airline.

Would you not say that managements plans and follow thru on that plan has made Delta profitable just as much as the employees An example woud be the oilrefinery or the LGA/DCA swap


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 40):
Those high deductible plans are getting worse in 2013 at a time when the employees made it possible for Delta to be the most profitable US airline.

Would you not say that managements plans and follow thru on that plan has made Delta profitable just as much as the employees An example woud be the oil refinery or the LGA/DCA swap


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6347 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 36):
For example a 3rd year first officer on the DC9 will take home twice as much as a flight attendant that's been around for 40 years, lost her pension, and bought Delta a 767. That number becomes "triple" the amount (or more) of a ramper that's also been around for decades and also saw his pension vanish and contributed to buying Delta a 767.

Um, not trying to be harsh, but pilots are higher paid for a reason. You don't think that 3rd year first officers on the DC9 should make less than a F/A that has been around for 40 years, do you?

I'd try and be more positive. Not sure if you work for DL or not, but I'd gladly work for them as a pilot even with half the pay. They're a good company with responsible management, good employees, and a proud history. I think DL employees should look around at the state of the other US majors and consider themselves lucky. They have a job, getting profit sharing, and their company isn't dive bombing. The 2nd paragraph is my personal opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about the first paragraph. I don't use the word "socialism" all the time to describe Democrats, but giving equal profit sharing is pretty much socialism IMO



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6335 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 37):
In case you haven't noticed most corporations have downgraded their healthcare insurance. Yeah it sucks but as we say...get the f@*k over it dude. It's a new world

So, since everyone's insurance benefits are going in the wrong direction, it's okay that DL's do as well? That's quite a rationalization...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6262 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 25):
Really?

Continental, Southwest, Alaska, and Hawaiian all still have a better benefits package.

Please re-read what I said.

BTW, quantify HOW their full package is better...

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 45):
So, since everyone's insurance benefits are going in the wrong direction, it's okay that DL's do as well? That's quite a rationalization...

I dont think thats what anyone's saying. It's just economic reality. Some, however, are still stuck in the pre 9/11 age.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1175 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 45):
So, since everyone's insurance benefits are going in the wrong direction, it's okay that DL's do as well? That's quite a rationalization...

It's not rationalization, it's reality. Delta has more than 10 Billion in debt. They have a pension fund that is only 40.4% funded. How do you expect them to pay all of this debt off if they keep giving away the store to the employees. If you think it's hard for you now, just wait until this Country decides to pay off the 14.5 trillion dollar debt it has. The days of writing checks with money you don't have are over.It's called fiscal responsibility. Home owners are doing it, Corporations are doing it. Now it's time our Government did it.


User currently offlineairtechy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

My guess is that the vast majority of Delta people will be very happy with the profit sharing.....and well they should be as they were one of the major contributors to Delta's quarterly success.

The recent financial results from Delta show that it has great management considering the travel environment and the challenges that it presents. What's interesting to me is that they have managed to upgrade all or most of their longhaul fleet, pay down a substantial portion of the long term debt, acquire older aircraft that still represent great value, address the fuel expense by buying a refinery, and still provide great compensation and benefits to their employees.

Once the long term debt is paid down further, I'm sure that the interest gained there will allow for greater compensation. In the meantime everyone has a job and the customers are happy. I'm sure other airlines and their employees wish they were in as good a position for the future.  


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6032 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 47):
. How do you expect them to pay all of this debt off if they keep giving away the store to the employees. If you think it's hard for you now, just wait until this Country decides to pay off the 14.5 trillion dollar debt it has. The days of writing checks with money you don't have are over.It's called fiscal responsibility.

Hey, maybe they should funnel those net profits into debt service instead of profit sharing. *That* would be fiscally responsible. Just a thought...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 49):
Hey, maybe they should funnel those net profits into debt service instead of profit sharing. *That* would be fiscally responsible. Just a thought...

They're doing that already unless I'm not understanding what you mean by debt service. DL has paid down close to $4B in debt in about 4 years.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 42):
Would you not say that managements plans and follow thru on that plan has made Delta profitable just as much as the employees An example woud be the oilrefinery or the LGA/DCA swap

I would say that success wouldn't have been possible without the hard work of the employees, and without a good business plan created by airline leaders.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 46):
Please re-read what I said.

BTW, quantify HOW their full package is better...

Higher hourly wages, vacation, sick time, benefits, work rules etc...


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 49):
Hey, maybe they should funnel those net profits into debt service instead of profit sharing. *That* would be fiscally responsible. Just a thought...

Keeping the employees happy makes the airline run wayyyyyy more smoothly. Pay some now (make the employees happy) and save later (with good, productive labor)

BTW: DL has been paying down a lot of debt, as noted.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5809 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 50):
They're doing that already unless I'm not what you mean by debt service. DL has paid down close to $4B in debt in about 4 years.

And if DL paid down more debt instead of profit sharing, you would have people like OOer complaining even more that DL is not giving employees their fair share. But then again, people like that usually aren't satisfied until their company is out of business, sort of like Eastern. Even if money is being put to good use, like profit sharing or paying down debt.

Have you mentioned how DL employees pay far less for their nonrev benefits vs their counterparts at UA for example? there's no service charge like UA which can amount to hundreds of dollars per round trip. Of course, that would paint DL in a positive light and we can't have none of that...

If you think other airlines are so much better, you are more than free to ask for a job with them.

Strong financial performance is good for everyone in the company, and if the past 10 years have shown us anything, it's that making money in the airline business is not an easy task. If DL was consistently making such good money during the next few years, sure, it makes sense to ask for more money or to tie bonuses to financial performance. But to base demands on a couple of good quarters would be unrealistic and a recipe for future disaster.

If DL employees had it so bad, the probably would have voted in a Union, but the fact that both Customer Service and FA groups voted them out speaks volumes about what most employees think of their relationship with the company.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5696 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 51):
Higher hourly wages, vacation, sick time, benefits, work rules etc...

I get what you're saying. I was asking for NUMBERS.

BTW, like I said come January, DL will only trail WN on most to all payscales so I don't know where hourly wages come in. I can't speak about vacation, sick time, etc. Unlike some, I try not to make things up as I go along...

Quoting SR117 (Reply 53):

I've been down this road before. There's only two members that I don't feed. I broke my own rule...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 54):
I've been down this road before. There's only two members that I don't feed. I broke my own rule...

Sorry for not clearing things up above, but I agree with your points, I just happened to quote your post as a starting point   however I was mostly talking against the ever so adversarial and negative attitude that some other people have towards DL management and everything that happens. I'm not saying it's perfect, however nowadays no company is 100% perfect. I think that such adversarial paths only lead to ruin for both sides and I'm quite glad that the more level headed attitudes that have prevailed at DL have led to good results for the company and employees.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting SR117 (Reply 55):
Sorry for not clearing things up above, but I agree with your points, I just happened to quote your post as a starting point however I was mostly talking against the ever so adversarial and negative attitude that some other people have towards DL management and everything that happens. I'm not saying it's perfect, however nowadays no company is 100% perfect. I think that such adversarial paths only lead to ruin for both sides and I'm quite glad that the more level headed attitudes that have prevailed at DL have led to good results for the company and employees.

I went on a little rant, sorry LOL. I totally agree with what you said in your post 100%. What I meant by I had been down this road before was that i've been having this same conversation with the same poster quite a few times expecting a different outcome (insanity, I know) which is why I usually don't say anything at all or pretend that the posts arent there.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 54):
BTW, like I said come January, DL will only trail WN on most to all payscales so I don't know where hourly wages come in. I can't speak about vacation, sick time, etc. Unlike some, I try not to make things up as I go along...

Again, incorrect. Come January Delta will still trail Continental ($52.53 max & $57.53 after 70 hours a month), WN (which you admit), Alaska ($46.48 tfp...roughly $53.45 per hour), and Hawaiian ($50.30 right now, going to $51.81 in March of 2013).


User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
Which won't go to the employees who really need it (DCI). Without them, Delta doesn't have a profitable airline.

lol. what a joke. smh

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):

Then the companies that those people actually work for, the contractors, are the ones that should be sharing THEIR profits with their employees. I suppose, in your eyes, the DL employees have done nothing to earn that profit sharing.....that it's ALL the DCI carriers that are turning the profits? That DL should pay some of its profits to people that don't even, legally, work for them?

                 

Quoting OOer (Reply 18):

I couldn't disagree with you more. Delta and the DCI carrier sign a contract and the DCI carrier provides Delta a service. This contract has a margin for profit for the DCI carrier. You want profit sharing...you should get it from your DCI carrier. It's like saying the workers of a utility company should get profit sharing from all the companies that use electricity...because without power they couldn't make a profit.

                 

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 22):
And a 0$ profit sharing check is exactly what majority of employees get in this industry.

err...like who? I can't think of any major airline that doesn't do profit sharing.......

Quoting OOer (Reply 25):

Continental, Southwest, Alaska, and Hawaiian all still have a better benefits package.

United has a better package in MX also.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
That's not accurate and you know it.

It is....its just not adding that little part of the pay raise to go with it   

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 46):
BTW, quantify HOW their full package is better...

Well for the United numbers....(and this is per info that Delta put out)
Heath care is 3 % less(UAL is 20% to DAL is 23%)
Vacation 3 weeks (UAL top out 7 years, DAL is 4)
They do have scope plus furlow protection for SFO. Its the IBT though....wouldn't put my life on it.
I believe they get 2 less holidays (but ill trade 2 holidays for 3 weeks of vacation)
ummm during the time Delta did the comparison they made 200 more a month after union dues.
Also I believe they got an extra week of sick time. Ie they could get 2 weeks in a year vs only being able to get a week of PPT at Delta. (though at Delta you can *hold* a week and have 2 weeks of PPT....assuming you don't use any PPT the year before)

With the last pay raise(s) plus the big one with the profit sharing change Delta will make more....but they do have a contract change coming up, so its safe to assume they will get close.

Also a little fuzzy on how there pension works. I think they get the same % into a 401K but also get something from the government. If they get both then they would have a better pension also.
This was from a comparison they do for TechOps. (plus doing a little digging in the UAL contract.)

oh and FX and UPS makes much more per hour than a Delta AMT. I think its close to $20. (but also do a lot less work...so im not complaining) And i just want to note, im not jumping into this pissing match. This is all by memory so it may be off a hair(but its not by much if it is). all I'm doing is posting info because FlyASA asked for it.



yep.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20375 posts, RR: 59
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Quoting Coronado (Thread starter):
Can't overlook a September completion factor of 99.8% and on time index of 89.4%.

Wow!

I'll be flying DL SFO-DTW next month and I am excited about it. DL seems to have managed to put together a good product, good service, and financial performance. Say what you will about Mr. Anderson, but he seems to be earning his pay.

I get the sense that a lot of people in Detroit are glad to see NW replaced by DL. I just hope DL keeps up the good work.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 51):

I'm starting to wonder what your beef with DL is. Is it that they are non-unionised or something else?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 50):
They're doing that already unless I'm not understanding what you mean by debt service. DL has paid down close to $4B in debt in about 4 years.

I'm well aware that they've been paying it down. I'm glad to see it. Obviously, the more progress the better.

The poster I quoted said a company needs to be "fiscally responsible," and therefore can't give employees the store (their term). I just took it to the next logical step by suggesting that maybe part of that "responsibility" means not doing profit sharing, and instead using that money to further pay down the company's debt. And, no, that's not something I'd be into.

That said, OOer is a lightning rod on this board, but he/she does have a valid point; while an increase in employee costs may not affect one's base rate of pay, it does impact their total compensation. The math each employee needs to work out is whether or not these types of increases-or other changes-offset the latest hourly increases, or even negate them. (Full disclosure: I no longer participate in a DL medical plan.)

FWIW, there are also lots of things the company should be looking at-and I'm thinking at the station level while writing this- to be more "fiscally responsible." Some are tea-in-the-ocean examples, but put together would add up and have an impact.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

While looking at Yahoo finance on DL ticker I saw a news link from the wall street journal saying KE and DL looking at a closer cooperation. I know they already have a ATI so the only logical thing left would be a JV across the Pacific. I could not read the full article since I don't subscribe to the paper. If this comes to fruition DL margins and wider reach of sales from the Asian point of sales should increase and that should be another boost to the bottom line. Does anybody know how their JV with Virgin Australia is doing?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 58):
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 22):And a 0$ profit sharing check is exactly what majority of employees get in this industry.err...like who? I can't think of any major airline that doesn't do profit sharing.......

i stand corrected, on these boards i've always heard of DL profit sharing and nothing much else. I went and looked at US, B6, UA, AS last quoter earnings statements and saw that they do have profit sharing.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 60):
I'm starting to wonder what your beef with DL is. Is it that they are non-unionised or something else?

It's no beef at all. If you read above I actually praise DL for doing some good things...

My problem is when people come on the board and post claims about how well they treat their employees. They don't, it's that simple. It's mostly smoke and mirrors, but they're able to get away with it because so many DL employees (especially down in ALT) think that they're the best paid (they're not) and they're just so lucky to work for DL. A perfect example is FlyASAGuy2005. How many times has he said just on this board that outside of WN, DL employees are the best paid? Right...with no facts or figures. I had to personally start looking up other airlines and prove him wrong, but just wait...because this is the same line DL management sold their employees. So he (and thousand others) just take their word for it.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 64, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 63):
It's no beef at all. If you read above I actually praise DL for doing some good things...

Yes you do praise DL but very rarely.
You do appear to have a chip on your shoulder regarding DL. Did they treat you bad at one time?


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 65, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 39):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 31):
CO employees still identify themselves as such on aircraft public address systems,

What flight were you on?

I'm not going to say, because I do not want the employees to get in trouble. This is a public forum, and it would be unfair for me to make a comment that could lead to possible disciplinary action being given to employees who provided outstanding service to their guests.

For the same reason, when an airline employee ignores his/her employer's policies to give me "above and beyond" service, I do not mention this if I write a trip report. I do, however, get the employee's name, and write a letter praising the employee to his / her employer's HR department. Obviously, in my letter, I don't say the employee "violated the rules to help me out"; I instead say the employee "provided wonderful service, and tried extra hard to make sure I had an enjoyable flight".

It was a flight within the last couple of months, on an ex-CO aircraft and route.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 64):
Yes you do praise DL but very rarely.
You do appear to have a chip on your shoulder regarding DL. Did they treat you bad at one time?

I give merit where it's due. Delta leaders get credit for developing a strategy to make Delta a profitable corporation and even a top tier airline in North America. As far as employee treatment...still have a long way to go.


User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

DL is running one helluva an airline right now. It's a machine; from the website to the airport ops to the flights, it works like a machine.

User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 68, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 63):
It's mostly smoke and mirrors, but they're able to get away with it because so many DL employees (especially down in ALT) think that they're the best paid (they're not) and they're just so lucky to work for DL.

I can't speak on behalf of each and every Delta employee, but to make such a sweeping generalization that "so many" DL employees think they're the best paid and reference exactly one person who has supposedly made such a statement is reaching to say the least.

The VAST MAJORITY of my coworkers realize that we aren't the absolute best paid and are under no impression that we were. We are, however, in the top tier and are grateful that we're moving in the right direction finally.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 69, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 63):
My problem is when people come on the board and post claims about how well they treat their employees. They don't, it's that simple.

Oh brother, so your opinion is now fact? I know tons of DL employees (I lived in Delta-town, it was ridiculous) including my dad as a pilot! They couldn't be happier with DL right now. Your statement is nothing short of dishonest. That's your opinion and NOT a fact!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSurprise From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

I remember when we were still in bankruptcy, I was at the Velvet Rope Tour and Ed Bastian spoke, He said that we would no longer be the highest paid airline because he never again wanted to stand before Delta employees and have to tell them their pay was going to be cut. He said we would be paid on industry average and our profit sharing would be on top of that to offset being the highest paid. His words had a profound effect on me because I had to stand up in briefings and talk about pay cuts. Every now and then I remind people about bankruptcy, how instead of talking about profit sharing and pay raises like we are now, we were talking about pay cuts and voluntary (in most cases) furloughs.

In my years with Delta we have never put together a run like we are enjoying now, and yes, it's because of the hard work of all the employees. Those employees are the ones that are making the perfomance happen. The top leaders at Delta are still Delta employees, I think that is sometimes forgotten here, and they are doing their part as well.

I don't know if we have the best insurance in the industry. I know I would like it to be better but I also know that a lot of my friends in other industries are envious of it. I'd love to have that extra week of vacation but not at the cost of the sucess we are enjoying. We still have work to do to get to the undisputed top and that's where I want to be. That translates into security to me and in this day and age that's what it's all about.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4566 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 68):
We are, however, in the top tier and are grateful that we're moving in the right direction finally.

Thank you for proving my point. Most Delta employee groups (except Pilots and Dispatchers) aren't even in the top 3 nationwide. Most are somewhere in the middle.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 69):
Oh brother, so your opinion is now fact? I know tons of DL employees (I lived in Delta-town, it was ridiculous) including my dad as a pilot! They couldn't be happier with DL right now. Your statement is nothing short of dishonest. That's your opinion and NOT a fact!

Of course pilots are happy. Their % in pay increases are nearly double what other employee groups got and have the highest 401(k) contribution in the industry. 13% in their 401(k) without putting a dime in there...meanwhile other employees get 2%, and a match up to 5%. Not to mention a health plan ONLY available to pilots.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Quoting Surprise (Reply 70):
I remember when we were still in bankruptcy, I was at the Velvet Rope Tour and Ed Bastian spoke, He said that we would no longer be the highest paid airline because he never again wanted to stand before Delta employees and have to tell them their pay was going to be cut. He said we would be paid on industry average and our profit sharing would be on top of that to offset being the highest paid. His words had a profound effect on me because I had to stand up in briefings and talk about pay cuts. Every now and then I remind people about bankruptcy, how instead of talking about profit sharing and pay raises like we are now, we were talking about pay cuts and voluntary (in most cases) furloughs.

In my years with Delta we have never put together a run like we are enjoying now, and yes, it's because of the hard work of all the employees. Those employees are the ones that are making the perfomance happen. The top leaders at Delta are still Delta employees, I think that is sometimes forgotten here, and they are doing their part as well.

I don't know if we have the best insurance in the industry. I know I would like it to be better but I also know that a lot of my friends in other industries are envious of it. I'd love to have that extra week of vacation but not at the cost of the sucess we are enjoying. We still have work to do to get to the undisputed top and that's where I want to be. That translates into security to me and in this day and age that's what it's all about.

Delta is making over a billion a year. The cost to provide GOOD health insurance is a small fraction of that profit. It's about choices, and Delta leaders made the choice to decrease health insurance benefits and increase premiums and keep the extra $$$ for profits.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 74, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 30):
You mean the same employees that BOUGHT Delta a 767, and the same employees who are making 40% less today than they were 15 years ago (adjusted for inflation)?

Since that was in '82, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of those people aren't even there, anymore.

Quoting OOer (Reply 28):
The premium for retirees is now $790 per month...a 287% increase.

Actually, the retiree's portion is about half of that.......the rest is paid by the company.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 29):
OOer: are you a DL emp? You seem to have some "info" but it also seems quite skewed; and frankly doesn't move the Company forward. It carries some of the harsh overtones of the people who think DL (or, I'd guess any company that doesn't do what you want) is horrible and a bad place to work.

They get their info (if you can call it that) from the AFA and IAM bulletin boards at work.

Quoting OOer (Reply 36):
That number becomes "triple" the amount (or more) of a ramper that's also been around for decades and also saw his pension vanish and contributed to buying Delta a 767.

Nobody was forced to buy the company the 767. It was strictly voluntary. The mindset of us that donated to that cause, then, was vastly different from your particular attitude, today. I daresay that someone like you wouldn't even think about donating to such a thing, today.

Quoting OOer (Reply 13):

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
Just curious, what is the portion that you pay monthly for that type of coverage?

For an active employee it's $86, for a retiree it's around $790.

As I stated, before......not hardly.......the retiree's portion is about half of that.

Quoting OOer (Reply 66):

I give merit where it's due. Delta leaders get credit for developing a strategy to make Delta a profitable corporation and even a top tier airline in North America. As far as employee treatment...still have a long way to go.

You've had a chip on your shoulder about DL, for as long as I've been on here and that was before the DL/NW merger. Now, when things are going well, you're grabbing at straws to keep up your opinion of them and to spread it on here, as though it's the gospel truth.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 75, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
They get their info (if you can call it that) from the AFA and IAM bulletin boards at work.

Uh, those have been gone for a long time now...

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
As I stated, before......not hardly.......the retiree's portion is about half of that.

For those retiring in 2013, the rates OOer posted are pretty accurate, depending on which plan one picks.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinen126dl From United States of America, joined May 2010, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4371 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):
The D/C connector bridge is on track

Is this what is being built near the WN gates?



DH8 E145 E175 CR2/7/9 A319/20/21 A332/3 D95 M83/88/90 712 737/8 752/3 763/4 77L
User currently offlineairtechy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4420 times:

Quoting Surprise (Reply 70):
I remember when we were still in bankruptcy, I was at the Velvet Rope Tour and Ed Bastian spoke, He said that we would no longer be the highest paid airline because he never again wanted to stand before Delta employees and have to tell them their pay was going to be cut. He said we would be paid on industry average and our profit sharing would be on top of that to offset being the highest paid. His words had a profound effect on me because I had to stand up in briefings and talk about pay cuts. Every now and then I remind people about bankruptcy, how instead of talking about profit sharing and pay raises like we are now, we were talking about pay cuts and voluntary (in most cases) furloughs.

In my years with Delta we have never put together a run like we are enjoying now, and yes, it's because of the hard work of all the employees. Those employees are the ones that are making the perfomance happen. The top leaders at Delta are still Delta employees, I think that is sometimes forgotten here, and they are doing their part as well.

I don't know if we have the best insurance in the industry. I know I would like it to be better but I also know that a lot of my friends in other industries are envious of it. I'd love to have that extra week of vacation but not at the cost of the sucess we are enjoying. We still have work to do to get to the undisputed top and that's where I want to be. That translates into security to me and in this day and age that's what it's all about.

Thanks...very well said and I couldn't agree more. It's obvious that Delta has a lot of employees pulling for the company regardless of whether they enjoy the max pay and benefits or not. That alone speaks volumes as to how well the management is performing. And this attitude..unfortunately..can never be direct shown on a financial statement.

Ones work happiness does not always translate to who is making the most money. I'll take stability and work environment to max pay any day.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 78, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
You've had a chip on your shoulder about DL, for as long as I've been on here and that was before the DL/NW merger. Now, when things are going well, you're grabbing at straws to keep up your opinion of them and to spread it on here, as though it's the gospel truth.

Could not agree more. I asked him if Delta had treatewd him badly, but he didn't answer


User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 79, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 71):
Thank you for proving my point. Most Delta employee groups (except Pilots and Dispatchers) aren't even in the top 3 nationwide. Most are somewhere in the middle.

Based solely on hourly pay, effective January 1, 2013, Delta ACS employees will be paid more than anyone other than LUV. That much is fact and irrefutable. Now, how Delta ACS employees rank when the entire compensation package is calculated, i honestly don't know as i've never seen numbers like those published. If you have such numbers to back up your claims i'd be happy to hear them.


User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Previous NW employee, current DL employee. Am I 100% happy with everything at work? No, but I'm much happier at DL than I was at NW. I really wish I had the medical plan that I had in 1989, but I bet most of us do. For those things I wish were changed, I work for in a positive manner to affect change. No galley grousing, no harunphs in the aisle.

I've never worked for a CONSISTENTLY profitable carrier in my career. I rather enjoy it.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4008 times:



Continental Ramp personnel top out at just under $21 per hour after 5 years seniority (currently in negotiations). Delta is at what? After how long?

[Edited 2012-10-04 13:54:34]

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
Since that was in '82, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of those people aren't even there, anymore.

On the seniority list today there are over 4,000 f/a's with a hire date of 1982 or earlier. Take away 1,400 or so from the NW side...and that's still over 2,500 that were hired in 1982 or earlier.

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
Actually, the retiree's portion is about half of that.......the rest is paid by the company.

You again are incorrect. Take a look at the open enrollment for 2013 (which I have sitting right in front of me) and you will see that the Gold HRA has a premium of $790 per month. Delta doesn't provide any $$$ for retirees medical plans.

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
They get their info (if you can call it that) from the AFA and IAM bulletin boards at work.

Really? Prove my numbers otherwise...i'll wait...

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
Nobody was forced to buy the company the 767. It was strictly voluntary. The mindset of us that donated to that cause, then, was vastly different from your particular attitude, today. I daresay that someone like you wouldn't even think about donating to such a thing, today.

It was voluntary, but it showed the loyalty employees had to their company. It would be nice if that company would repay their employees now that the company is quite profitable. In regards to the 2nd part of your statement, you just made yourself look like a fool...and I don't even need to address such an accusation.

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
As I stated, before......not hardly.......the retiree's portion is about half of that.

As I stated...you're wrong. Delta pays $0 when it comes to retirees health insurance. But since you know everything I doubt it would do any good to even take a screenshot of the 2013 employee benefits package.

Quoting mayor (Reply 74):
You've had a chip on your shoulder about DL, for as long as I've been on here and that was before the DL/NW merger. Now, when things are going well, you're grabbing at straws to keep up your opinion of them and to spread it on here, as though it's the gospel truth.

So says the individual who thinks DL is the shining light in heaven and thou art our savior. (
Quoting lucky777 (Reply 79):
Based solely on hourly pay, effective January 1, 2013, Delta ACS employees will be paid more than anyone other than LUV. That much is fact and irrefutable.
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 82, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Quoting n126dl (Reply 76):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):
The D/C connector bridge is on track

Is this what is being built near the WN gates?

WN gates? FlyASA is referring to the connector bridge being built between terminals C and D at LGA. Delta moved into terminal C March 25 and is the process of connecting them. WN's gates at LGA are in terminal B....nowhere near terminals C and D.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 83, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):
Continental Ramp personnel top out at just under $21 per hour after 5 years seniority (currently in negotiations). Delta is at what? After how long?

As of the moment top out on the ramp at Delta is $22.06 before differential. Effective 01/01/2013 the rate of pay goes up an additional 5%. I believe top out takes either 9 1/2 or 10 years.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 84, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):
Continental Ramp personnel top out at just under $21 per hour after 5 years seniority (currently in negotiations).
Quoting lucky777 (Reply 83):
As of the moment top out on the ramp at Delta is $22.06 before differential. Effective 01/01/2013 the rate of pay goes up an additional 5%. I believe top out takes either 9 1/2 or 10 years.


DL scale is 10.5 years.

The CO (UA/CO) employee will be at top out for several years waiting for the DL person to catch up.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 85, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):
In regards to the 2nd part of your statement, you just made yourself look like a fool...and I don't even need to address such an accusation.

He doesn't look like a fool to me! If ANYone looks like the fool..... You don't NEED to address it, but why not do it anyway? We could all use a good laugh.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 86, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):

It was voluntary, but it showed the loyalty employees had to their company. It would be nice if that company would repay their employees now that the company is quite profitable. In regards to the 2nd part of your statement, you just made yourself look like a fool...and I don't even need to address such an accusation.

Only because you can't refute it.......the company repaid the employees, many times over, after the "Spirit" was bought.

I'm basing what I thought you might or might not do based on what I've seen of your opinion of the company, no more. That alone is enough for my opinion to carry some weight. I was working for this company when you were still in grade school, no doubt and most of us, from back then have no reason to question how the company treats us.

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):
As I stated...you're wrong. Delta pays $0 when it comes to retirees health insurance. But since you know everything I doubt it would do any good to even take a screenshot of the 2013 employee benefits package.

At least twice, the last two open enrollments, I've questioned the company on what they put up as the premiums and was told that what was published was not entirely the responsibility of the retirees.....part of it was the company's.......this was for those that were currently in retirement..........I don't have what is currently offered to ones to retire......that isn't released to us.

Quoting OOer (Reply 81):
So says the individual who thinks DL is the shining light in heaven and thou art our savior. (

Maybe so, but DL has never given me a reason to be disloyal or question their motives. All your statements smack of someone that has been treated badly by DL, well real or otherwise.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 86):
At least twice, the last two open enrollments, I've questioned the company on what they put up as the premiums and was told that what was published was not entirely the responsibility of the retirees.....part of it was the company's.......this was for those that were currently in retirement..........I don't have what is currently offered to ones to retire......that isn't released to us.

Well they lied to you. Delta hasn't paid a dime in retiree health insurance since bankruptcy.

Quoting mayor (Reply 86):
Maybe so, but DL has never given me a reason to be disloyal or question their motives. All your statements smack of someone that has been treated badly by DL, well real or otherwise.

Personally, the gripes I have are very minimal compared to others who have really gotten the shaft. I come in, do my job, get the occasional compliment letter. I meet the expectations Delta has of me, and even exceed them on many occasions. The problem is that Delta (even now that profits are raking in) is not sharing in that success. That's the problem I have.

Quoting mayor (Reply 86):
I'm basing what I thought you might or might not do based on what I've seen of your opinion of the company, no more. That alone is enough for my opinion to carry some weight. I was working for this company when you were still in grade school, no doubt and most of us, from back then have no reason to question how the company treats us.

Well you're wrong. We haven't had the chance to buy Delta a plane but I personally have participated since day 1 in the Delta care fund and the Delta scholarship fund. The contribution amount to those 2 funds for me is over $1,000.

Quoting mayor (Reply 86):
Only because you can't refute it.......the company repaid the employees, many times over, after the "Spirit" was bought.

Really? How?

Quoting mayor (Reply 86):
Maybe so, but DL has never given me a reason to be disloyal or question their motives.

That's easy for you to say. You get to sit at home and collect your pension check every month. Something a VAST majority of Delta employees won't be able to do...ever.


User currently offlinen126dl From United States of America, joined May 2010, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3578 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 82):

WN gates? FlyASA is referring to the connector bridge being built between terminals C and D at LGA. Delta moved into terminal C March 25 and is the process of connecting them. WN's gates at LGA are in terminal B....nowhere near terminals C and D.

My apologies for making a retarded post. I assumed he was talking about ATL - I had that location stuck in my head from another reply on the thread. Makes sense now that it's LGA. I was wondering how a midpoint expansion had turned into a connector.



DH8 E145 E175 CR2/7/9 A319/20/21 A332/3 D95 M83/88/90 712 737/8 752/3 763/4 77L
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 89, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 87):
Well you're wrong. We haven't had the chance to buy Delta a plane but I personally have participated since day 1 in the Delta care fund and the Delta scholarship fund. The contribution amount to those 2 funds for me is over $1,000.

Well, good for you......I have, too........but your contribution to these funds (as are mine) do not benefit the company directly, as buying the plane would be......I still have my doubts that you or others might want to buy the company a plane, nowadays.

Quoting OOer (Reply 87):
Really? How?

I don't give a shit whether you believe me or not and I'm not going to go thru a litany of examples of how they've helped the employees since then.......if you want to know, YOU find it...........I know what I know and I don't have to validate my credibility to you or anyone else.

Quoting OOer (Reply 87):
That's easy for you to say. You get to sit at home and collect your pension check every month. Something a VAST majority of Delta employees won't be able to do...ever.

So, the pension I earned, over the 33 years I worked for the company, somehow I DIDN'T earn? Please, enlighten me. My statement holds true BEFORE I retired, also. Should I give up my pension, just so that they might get one? Does that make sense? I've got a better idea......why don't you give up your job with DL so someone that gives a damn can work your position? Something like that might actually accomplish something.
 
Quoting OOer (Reply 87):
Well they lied to you. Delta hasn't paid a dime in retiree health insurance since bankruptcy.

Well, if they DID lie to me, I owe them a large chunk of change because, in all reality, I DID only pay about half of what you're saying.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 90, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 58):
Well for the United numbers....(and this is per info that Delta put out)
Heath care is 3 % less(UAL is 20% to DAL is 23%)
Vacation 3 weeks (UAL top out 7 years, DAL is 4)
They do have scope plus furlow protection for SFO. Its the IBT though....wouldn't put my life on it.
I believe they get 2 less holidays (but ill trade 2 holidays for 3 weeks of vacation)
ummm during the time Delta did the comparison they made 200 more a month after union dues.
Also I believe they got an extra week of sick time. Ie they could get 2 weeks in a year vs only being able to get a week of PPT at Delta. (though at Delta you can *hold* a week and have 2 weeks of PPT....assuming you don't use any PPT the year before)

With the last pay raise(s) plus the big one with the profit sharing change Delta will make more....but they do have a contract change coming up, so its safe to assume they will get close.

Also a little fuzzy on how there pension works. I think they get the same % into a 401K but also get something from the government. If they get both then they would have a better pension also.
This was from a comparison they do for TechOps. (plus doing a little digging in the UAL contract.)

oh and FX and UPS makes much more per hour than a Delta AMT. I think its close to $20. (but also do a lot less work...so im not complaining) And i just want to note, im not jumping into this pissing match. This is all by memory so it may be off a hair(but its not by much if it is). all I'm doing is posting info because FlyASA asked for it.

Thank you.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 79):
Based solely on hourly pay, effective January 1, 2013, Delta ACS employees will be paid more than anyone other than LUV. That much is fact and irrefutable. Now, how Delta ACS employees rank when the entire compensation package is calculated, i honestly don't know as i've never seen numbers like those published. If you have such numbers to back up your claims i'd be happy to hear them.

Thank you.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 90):
Thank you.

I really don't know what employee groups Deltal1011man was comparing. Most hourly UA employees have access to an HMO for little or no-cost (the employee is responsible for the difference between the HMO & PPO option, which is typically a negative amount). Some employee groups do not have 401K matches and some have access to a meager IAM pension plan; some groups traded profit sharing rights for higher wages, etc.

And not only do UPS AMT earn nearly $20/more per hour than their DL counterparts, they also receive no-cost industry-leading health & retirement benefits.



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 92, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

Edit

Edit


Edit

[Edited 2012-10-04 22:12:43]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 36):
A 3rd year flight attendant will take home 1/4 what a 3rd year first officer will in profit sharing...just to put it in comparison.

  

The fundamental problem with basing a profit-sharing payout on an employee's salary this is that certain employee groups are already behind in terms of wages considering how much it takes to live these days. When you use one's base salary to determine how much one gets in profit sharing, you're basically saying that you deserve more because you make more money. That's how the rich get richer. For the sake of redistribution, you could subtract the share of one's salary out of all employees from 1 and then multiply by the total payout to give more money to lower income workers. For example, a ramper makes $25k and a pilot makes $75k for a total employee salary pool of $100k. For $1,000 in profit sharing, the ramper would get $750 (1-($25k/$100k)) while the pilot would get $250. I think that's fairer as it gives people who are scraping by a better chunk of change to add to the little they make, although part-time employees should probably get a multiple of their average hours worked per week in the previous year out of 40 (many in the airlines pick up additional hours or give some away so they can work a second job).

Giving raises instead of profit sharing is a good option, but using the reverse multiple formula would result in better redistribution of income. The current system ensures those at the top get the most, an approach that keeps money out of the hands of those that need it most.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

So, the pension I earned, over the 33 years I worked for the company, somehow I DIDN'T earn? Please, enlighten me. My statement holds true BEFORE I retired, also. Should I give up my pension, just so that they might get one? Does that make sense? I've got a better idea......why don't you give up your job with DL so someone that gives a damn can work your position? Something like that might actually accomplish something.

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):

           

Mayor...I don't know what this guys deal is. Delta is a very good airline to work for. I think the non union votes prove that. For some reason OOer is not happy with his job. OOer...seriously I do respect some of the things u feel, however DL is a good company that gives good benefits to its employees. You talk about DL health insurance not comparing to other corporations..well it's prob not the best but it's still ok. Let's talk about the flight benefits DL gives to its employees...some of the best wouldn't u agree? If not the best? Name another airline that has better flight bennies for its employees?


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 95, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
I still have my doubts that you or others might want to buy the company a plane, nowadays.

I honestly have my doubts that they would ask...

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
Should I give up my pension, just so that they might get one?

Has someone suggested that?

I think looking at the differences in 401k matches amongst various workgroups is a much more telling issue.

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
Well, if they DID lie to me, I owe them a large chunk of change because, in all reality, I DID only pay about half of what you're saying.

We've discussed this before. For those that might not be aware of what we're referring to, you retired when a different program existed. I have no doubt that you are paying what you claim. There also no doubt that the #'s OOer posted for those retiring now are also accurate. If anyone is interested, the numbers he/she's citing are readily available on the company's website.

Lastly: With all due respect, not sure who you spoke with, but "1800MYDL" is probably the last place to seek consistently accurate info; it's like the Wikipedia of the benefits world.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 93):
When you use one's base salary to determine how much one gets in profit sharing, you're basically saying that you deserve more because you make more money.

Excellent ideas. Sometime ago, I suggested dividing the pool into equal amounts across the board, and was met with howls of protest. IMO, everyone (and group) has an equal role in the success of this company, and profit sharing should reflect that.

Quoting toobz (Reply 94):
however DL is a good company that gives good benefits to its employees. You talk about DL health insurance not comparing to other corporations..well it's prob not the best but it's still ok. Let's talk about the flight benefits DL gives to its employees...some of the best wouldn't u agree?

Flight benefits and medical insurance are too much of an apples and oranges comparison to be valid in the context of this current discussion, though I guess I could mention that passes are the *only* benefit available to a large segment of the workforce...

[Edited 2012-10-05 05:24:59]


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
I don't give a shit whether you believe me or not and I'm not going to go thru a litany of examples of how they've helped the employees since then.......if you want to know, YOU find it...........I know what I know and I don't have to validate my credibility to you or anyone else.

Sounds like I hit soft spot. But I guess we should just believe you.

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
So, the pension I earned, over the 33 years I worked for the company, somehow I DIDN'T earn? Please, enlighten me. My statement holds true BEFORE I retired, also. Should I give up my pension, just so that they might get one? Does that make sense? I've got a better idea......why don't you give up your job with DL so someone that gives a damn can work your position? Something like that might actually accomplish something.

The job you did to earn your pension is the same job someone in your same position is doing today at Delta WITHOUT a pension, actually...some could argue that back in the day the job was actually easier. So the benefits from Delta you're earning are much different than those of someone in your same position today doing the same exact thing. It's like a student turning in a project and getting an "A" and another student turning in that same project and getting a "C". Do you think either student earned their grade more than the other? Do you not think that each student is now going to have a different opinion of the teacher?

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 90):
Quoting lucky777 (Reply 79):
Based solely on hourly pay, effective January 1, 2013, Delta ACS employees will be paid more than anyone other than LUV. That much is fact and irrefutable. Now, how Delta ACS employees rank when the entire compensation package is calculated, i honestly don't know as i've never seen numbers like those published. If you have such numbers to back up your claims i'd be happy to hear them.

Thank you.

Hmmm???? I just had to look up 1 other airline to find that's not true. Continental. They top out at almost $21 per hour (base pay...they have shift differentials etc as well) after 5 years, where it takes Delta about 11 years to get to $22 per hour. In order to equal out the compensation difference an employee would have to work for over 20 years at those levels...not to mention a Continental ramper would still have an active pension. Something the Delta ramper can only dream about.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 91):
And not only do UPS AMT earn nearly $20/more per hour than their DL counterparts, they also receive no-cost industry-leading health & retirement benefits.

Shhhhh....we can't let facts get in the way.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 93):
The fundamental problem with basing a profit-sharing payout on an employee's salary this is that certain employee groups are already behind in terms of wages considering how much it takes to live these days. When you use one's base salary to determine how much one gets in profit sharing, you're basically saying that you deserve more because you make more money. That's how the rich get richer.

Bingo!


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 97, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3138 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 94):
For some reason OOer is not happy with his job.

Someone pointing out disparities, or things they'd like to work to change =/= unhappy with their job.

On the contrary; speaking up/out shows that someone is still engaged enough to care.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 98, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 96):
Hmmm???? I just had to look up 1 other airline to find that's not true. Continental. They top out at almost $21 per hour (base pay...they have shift differentials etc as well) after 5 years, where it takes Delta about 11 years to get to $22 per hour

While it's not my job to remind you of a question you asked i guess i must. You asked about topped out base pay and the length of time it takes to reach said pay. My answer was and stll is "true"...i said it took 9 1/2 -10 years for Delta ACS empoyees to top out (it's actually 10 1/2 as i found out from another a.net member) and that Delta frontline agents indeed do top out higher than does a Continental agent.

Last i checked $22.06 is more than "almost $21"....not sure what "almost' is since i've never seen that on one of my paychecks but i digress.

Your astute analysis was, however, able to figure out that 5 years to top out is far shorter than 10 1/2 so i applaud you.

As for your comment about it taking "over 20 years" for a Delta employee to recoup the lost money from it taking 10 1/2 years to top out versus only 5 at Continental, well, i'll leave that one for the calculus wizards because i haven't a clue myself.

As for the pension comment....i never insinuated nor mentioned pensions, and up until i showed you that a Delta agent does indeed top out at a higher rate than a Continental employee, you didn't seem to care either.


User currently offlineSurprise From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 95):
Sometime ago, I suggested dividing the pool into equal amounts across the board, and was met with howls of protest. IMO, everyone (and group) has an equal role in the success of this company, and profit sharing should reflect that.

I think that actually has merit but I'm not sure how it would work. Different work groups work differnt hours weekly, monthly and yearly so then it becomes a question of the time you have put in for the sucess of the company. I'm sure there is a way that could be accounted for but then you're back to a formula dividing the pie which is what you have now. But it is interesting.

I'm going back now to the comments about the third year first officer on a DC9 taking home more than a flight attendant. Please correct me if I'm wrong but don't the pilots have there own profit sharing formula negotiated in their contract?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 100, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 95):
Lastly: With all due respect, not sure who you spoke with, but "1800MYDL" is probably the last place to seek consistently accurate info; it's like the Wikipedia of the benefits world.

With all due respect, I got my e-mails, directly from Rob Kight.......that good enough?

Quoting OOer (Reply 96):
some could argue that back in the day the job was actually easier.

The only ones that use that argument are the ones that never worked "back in the day". Anyway, thanks for your lack of respect......I'm used to it by now.


Ever stood in an open de-icing bucket for an hour or more at a time, in sub-freezing temps, in chilling winds? I have and many others, have, too. Ever stood in a combination of snow and slush, loading or unloading bags or cargo? Ever worked outside, AT ALL since you've been with the company? If not, don't infer that the job is harder now than it was, then. There is NO way that's possible.
 




 



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 101, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

This discussion has veered well away from the topic and since a few of you continue to insist on hijacking threads about Delta OFF TOPIC, this thread is NOW LOCKED! If this behavior continues from the handful of participants, they risk having their accounts suspended.

User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 102, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 98):
As for the pension comment....i never insinuated nor mentioned pensions, and up until i showed you that a Delta agent does indeed top out at a higher rate than a Continental employee, you didn't seem to care either.

This discussion basically started with the discussion of health benefits and other benefits. Any reasonable and intelligent individual places weight on the value of benefits received as well as hourly rate. Claiming to be the best paid because your hourly rate is $1 higher than someone else is a grave mistake.

Quoting Surprise (Reply 99):
I think that actually has merit but I'm not sure how it would work. Different work groups work differnt hours weekly, monthly and yearly so then it becomes a question of the time you have put in for the sucess of the company. I'm sure there is a way that could be accounted for but then you're back to a formula dividing the pie which is what you have now. But it is interesting.

I think you could have a formula divided by into 3 components.

1. Yearly earnings (the sole component currently used)
2. Longevity
3. Number of hours worked (crewmembers would have theirs multiplied by 2 because 85 hours is a full month)

That I think would be a fair system.

Quoting mayor (Reply 100):
The only ones that use that argument are the ones that never worked "back in the day". Anyway, thanks for your lack of respect......I'm used to it by now.

Actually many that have been around for 20-30-40-50 years say the same. Today in in-flight you work a 767 with 7 flight attendants (8 if you meet a high load factor criteria), back in the day that same 767 was staffed regularly with 10 or 11 flight attendants. Also consider the load factor 20 years ago was roughly 15% lower than it is today. So now tell me things weren't easier back then...


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