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APA Agrees To Restart Negotiations  
User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

APA has agreed at their board meeting today to restart negotiations with AA. They expect to meet sometime this week. After backing off last week due to AA threatening to sue and due to another letter reinforcing their intention to further impose 1113 conditions, the APA did not want to further inflame the situation and decided to hold off releasing the strike ballot results due tomorrow or Thursday. They feel there is no need to further ratchet up the rhetoric. They will wait and see how serious AA is during the negotiations. As Joe Friday would have said, just the facts, ma'am.

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7735 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

Quoting aluminumtubing (Thread starter):
As Joe Friday would have said, just the facts, ma'am.

Just to be snippy, did AA state that they were willing to restart negotiations?  
Just kidding, we are all pulling for a resolution that will allow normal service and get AA out of chpt.11, personally, the battle I was interested in waging was against any merger with US, but I digress.

Best wishes to all who sit at the table, I suggest a hit of some Peace Pipes with the real stuff before sitting down, calms the nerves  


User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10141 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 1):
we are all pulling for a resolution

Thanks, so am I. I am once again, hoping common sense and maturity will prevail. But the last time I held my breathe, I just passed out!


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8379 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

Quoting aluminumtubing (Thread starter):
They feel there is no need to further ratchet up the rhetoric.

A little late now, isn't it? They piss off an entire customer base and smear AA's reputation (along with their own) and now they're playing it conservatively?



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
A little late now, isn't it? They piss off an entire customer base and smear AA's reputation (along with their own) and now they're playing it conservatively?

Well, as I have stated on other threads, there is enough blame to go around on both sides. YES, BOTH SIDES. You do not appear to be open to the fact that there is more than meets the eye here.

AA came to APA over a week ago asking to restart negotiations. APA was planning to when AA ratcheted up the heat with the two letters. APA was not going to meet with AA continuing to apply pressure. APA has decided to not further ratchet up the rhetoric so hopefully things can cool down a bit and maybe, just maybe negotiations can be productive. I kind of think that is a good thing.

If you see my comments on other threads, I think you will find I am fairly realistic on what is happening.

If you think it is all one sided and that the APA and the pilots are terrible, well, I can't change your mind.

[Edited 2012-10-02 17:05:15]

User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9861 times:

I'm pulling for you all, aluminumtubing. Our TA vote concludes on Monday and many of us have looked to your side for guidance. Good luck to you!

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7823 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9604 times:

I hope it sticks this time. APA and AA management are like Israel and Palestine. Its too late to point fingers at just one side. They have both suffered for bad leadership and being out of touch with reality. Both groups seem to have tried to build a bridge to the 1990's.

I just hope the two can get through their hatred for each other for the sake of the flyer.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9363 times:

Out overnight and this morning, looks like the slowdown is having its intended (by some) effect: company appears to be beginning to back down. Now the critical question becomes if AMR will be willing to move sufficiently towards the APA's position to both (a) get at least 50%+1 to vote yes, and (b) not give away so much that the company's entire "standalone" business plan can't win out with the UCC over the merger/Parker alternative. (Of course, some believe (b) is already an inevitable given - we'll see.)

In other news, Tom Horton is "optimistic" and hopes to "put this chapter behind" everyone. For the sake of all involved, let's hope.


User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9348 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
not give away so much that the company's entire "standalone" business plan can't win out with the UCC over the merger/Parker alternative

While I don't share the view most of my fellow employees do regarding US being a savior, the business side of me has grave concerns regarding our "stand alone plan" as well. Personally I would much prefer to go it alone. I just don't believe long term it will be viable. Just more of the same. I would not invest any hard currency long term in a plan that has AA going it alone , that is for sure.


User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9308 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
company appears to be beginning to back down.

Laura Einspanier, American Airlines vice president of employee relations, informed pilots Tuesday night that the air carrier would hold off on implementing some unpopular changes to the pilots’ terms of employment.

In a letter to AA pilots, said the company was putting off the implementation of the changes “to help foster a constructive environment for us all.

Between that and the APA holding off releasing the strike vote today, it shows just maybe both sides aren't as untrainable as we all thought.

I know some might be curious which way I voted on the strike issue. I will only say that I waited until the last minute to vote, and that my vote was entirely unemotionally based. That alone could get me kicked out of the union and off this website. But, I digress.....  


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9263 times:

Here's what I am hoping for:

- Higher total salaries for all pilots
- Higher productivity for all pilots
- Higher trip efficiency for all pilots
- Safety minded changes
- Rough parity with DL and UA in pilot pay and productivity

I think this is definitely achievable very quickly.


User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9264 times:

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 10):
Here's what I am hoping for:

- Higher total salaries for all pilots
- Higher productivity for all pilots
- Higher trip efficiency for all pilots
- Safety minded changes
- Rough parity with DL and UA in pilot pay and productivity

I think this is definitely achievable very quickly.

AMEN!!!


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9208 times:

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 11):
Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 10):
Here's what I am hoping for:
- Higher total salaries for all pilots
- Higher productivity for all pilots
- Higher trip efficiency for all pilots
- Safety minded changes
- Rough parity with DL and UA in pilot pay and productivity

I think this is definitely achievable very quickly.

AMEN!!!


I have been reading about the events involving AA over the past few weeks with a great deal of interest (plus my partner and I are scheduled to fly AA over the holiday and we chose AA specifically so we could try out the business class of AA's magnificent 777s). I've read all sorts of accusations and speculations and the like, what I haven't read is the specific contract terms that the parties can't agree to. As we all watch the negotiations begin again, perhaps now is a good time to learn what is at stake.

So here's my questions:

What were the major terms of the AA pilot contract before it was abrogated by the Court?
What does AA want in a new contract?
What do the Pilots want in a new contract?
What, if anything, has US promised the pilots?
What's the difference between DL, UA and AA pilot pay and productivity?


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9209 times:

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 8):
the business side of me has grave concerns regarding our "stand alone plan" as well. Personally I would much prefer to go it alone. I just don't believe long term it will be viable.

Personally, I think AA's considerable financial (RASM growth, etc.) and operational improvements (on-time, etc.) pre-slowdown do, to some extent, vindicate that AMR would be capable of succeeding as a standalone entity without a merger, or at least without a USAirways merger. I know there are some - including some AA employees - who actually would prefer JetBlue if a merger were to take place.

Nonetheless, I do agree that the critical mass a USAirways merger would bring - on the East Coast in CLT, PHL and DCA - would be quite valuable to a new, combined entity. And speaking purely of employee relations, I also recognize that many AA employees would rather have a new CEO at the helm and are completely done with dealing with current AA management.

I guess the bottom line for me is that while I don't necessarily disagree with those that say an USAirways merger would strengthen AA and enhance the combined entity's value, I also don't necessarily disagree with those that say a standalone AA, with the right costs, union contracts and fleet, could also achieve substantially strength, growth and value creation.

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 8):
Just more of the same.

From the management perspective, perhaps, but from the operational and product perspective, AA is in for some dramatic changes in the next couple of years - and I think many of them are in the right direction.

The AA "standalone" plan - both those portions of it that exist only in PowerPoint form as of today and the portions that are already tangibly rolling out - appears to envision turning over the vast majority of the fleet, significantly upgrading the ground and onboard hard product, enhancing the cabin experience, major investments in technology, etc., not to mention international network growth. At least from the perspective of customers, it at least appears that the next few years are not going to be "more of the same."

[Edited 2012-10-03 06:22:54]

User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9183 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Personally, I think AA's considerable financial (RASM growth, etc.) and operational improvements (on-time, etc.) pre-slowdown do, to some extent, vindicate that AMR would be capable of succeeding as a standalone entity without a merger, or at least without a USAirways merger. I know there are some - including some AA employees - who actually would prefer JetBlue if a merger were to take place.

Short term, I can agree. Long term, as a serious investor, I just do not believe AA can go it alone. I personally think JetBlue would more than likely be a better option. Horton has my number, but I am sure it's not on his speed dial.


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9160 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Personally, I think AA's considerable financial (RASM growth, etc.) and operational improvements (on-time, etc.) pre-slowdown do, to some extent, vindicate that AMR would be capable of succeeding as a standalone entity without a merger, or at least without a USAirways merger. I know there are some - including some AA employees - who actually would prefer JetBlue if a merger were to take place.

Correct. AA has been excellent up to mid-September. And it has been beating the pants off UA in the customer service department. I do think the merger will happen either way. I just hope it'll be after AA exits bk because the alternative will not be pretty for AA's employees or customers. I suspect Dougie will lead the combined airline one way or another, so that outcome won't change either.

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
From the management perspective, perhaps, but from the operational and product perspective, AA is in for some dramatic changes in the next couple of years - and I think many of them are in the right direction.

So true. The new planes, premium cabins, and MCE alone will dramatically change the flying experience for customers. If AA can not just keep customer service levels, but raise them, they CAN be unstoppable (since their principal competitors have essentially given up on the concept of customer service excellence).


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9127 times:

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 15):
I do think the merger will happen either way. I just hope it'll be after AA exits bk because the alternative will not be pretty for AA's employees or customers. I suspect Dougie will lead the combined airline one way or another, so that outcome won't change either.

I tend to agree.

My concern about Parker revolves around the potential degradation to the product/service, and AAdvantage, both of which are already either excellent and/or soon to improve. Nonetheless, I agree that a merger is inevitable - either in or outside bankruptcy - and I think Parker will probably end up running the company either way. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I am just, like many other people, cautious.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 15):
So true. The new planes, premium cabins, and MCE alone will dramatically change the flying experience for customers. If AA can not just keep customer service levels, but raise them, they CAN be unstoppable

Agreed. AA with the right fleet, costs and union contracts, plus what will be among the best hard/soft product combinations in the U.S. industry, will be quite a competitor if they can get their house in order - with or without a merger.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4070 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9087 times:

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 9):
I know some might be curious which way I voted on the strike issue. I will only say that I waited until the last minute to vote, and that my vote was entirely unemotionally based.

This strike vote makes no sense. It is not even posturing, just a total waste of time.



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User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7823 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

Will the pensions convert to 401k?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13552 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9013 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 12):
What were the major terms of the AA pilot contract before it was abrogated by the Court?
What does AA want in a new contract?
What do the Pilots want in a new contract?
What, if anything, has US promised the pilots?
What's the difference between DL, UA and AA pilot pay and productivity?

I second this question. What exactly are the differences between what the APA wants and what AMR offered?
What are the differences, besides the above, in scope clause?
What are the various unions willing to off to bring an 88 to 100 seater 'in house.' I believe the sticking point there might be ground handing at out stations.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3878 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8942 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
I also recognize that many AA employees would rather have a new CEO at the helm and are completely done with dealing with current AA management.
Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
I also don't necessarily disagree with those that say a standalone AA, with the right costs, union contracts and fleet, could also achieve substantially strength, growth and value creation.

I'd like to see what AA could do with new leadership as a stand alone entity. The message from Arpey and his cohorts is stale--AA needs some new blood to reimagine the company, or at least develop some sort of vision that they can sell the employees on. IMHO, a merger w US Airways is an Arpey or an Arpey-acolyte move--managing, not leading, and just trying to hold on to what they have.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8897 times:

First, has anyone considered the possiblity that the UCC pushed AA to send the letter threatening litigation? If the operational issues were to continue, the creditors see their chances seeing AA make good on their debts fading away.

In a bankruptcy, both labor and management are pretty much working for the creditors, since they have so much say in the final reorganization.

Again, I would like to here from some AA pilots, like aluminumtubing, as to why Doug Parker represents the best option for AA's future.

In my opinion, Parker is just another manager who got his start in the Crandall culture at AA. That culture doesn't turn out the managerial and executive talent the way that companies like GE and McDonald's do.

What would be wrong with trying to hire someone away from Southwest to be AA/AMR's next CEO? Granted, there may be restrictive covenants in the employment agreements of senior executives at Southwest, but those can be overcome. About 20 years ago, Chrysler hired away a senior executive from GM to become CEO.

Considering that Southwest management has a long history or getting along with unionized employees, as well as a sterling reputation for customer service, hiring someone from Southwest who wants a challenge is a no brainer.

There are plenty of potential candidates for senior positions at AA, both inside and outside the industry, who never worked a day for Bob Crandall.

APA, APFA, and TWU need to pool their voting power together and find some creditors/future shareholders who also believe that AA needs to replace Horton & Co.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4154 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8793 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 21):
In my opinion, Parker is just another manager who got his start in the Crandall culture at AA. That culture doesn't turn out the managerial and executive talent the way that companies like GE and McDonald's do.

That is completely anecdotal. While oft brought up, it's only to refer to AArpey and Horton. Maybe those two just happened to be crappy management material. It's not necessarily because of Crandall's influence. I'm sure there were plenty of competent AA employees who were hired and worked under Crandall. If not, the airline wouldn't still be running.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 21):
What would be wrong with trying to hire someone away from Southwest to be AA/AMR's next CEO? Granted, there may be restrictive covenants in the employment agreements of senior executives at Southwest, but those can be overcome. About 20 years ago, Chrysler hired away a senior executive from GM to become CEO.

Just because another company is good at what they do doesn't mean someone from there will be a good fit in another completely different system. AA and Southwest are about as far apart in their way of doing things as any two domestic airlines. And AA is not about to go the LCC route.


User currently offlineaaexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8724 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 22):
Just because another company is good at what they do doesn't mean someone from there will be a good fit in another completely different system. AA and Southwest are about as far apart in their way of doing things as any two domestic airlines. And AA is not about to go the LCC route.

Bingo. A much better option would be to opt for a CEO from an entirely different industry.


User currently offlinealuminumtubing From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 17):
This strike vote makes no sense. It is not even posturing, just a total waste of time.

I will pass that info off to the leadership of APA asap, as they may not be aware of that. Thank you.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
Will the pensions convert to 401k?

The A plan will be frozen versus terminated and the benefits earned will be paid as an annuity. The B plan will be terminated and we have the option of having the funds rolled over into an IRA or 401K. Future contributions, I am estimating at14%, will be put into the 401K. That is in addition to the full amount we will be able to contribute per law.

[Edited 2012-10-03 10:16:58]

25 aaexecplat : So if you earned 200k gross, you could stick roughly $45k annually into your 401(k) with AA's contribution on top of yours?
26 XFSUgimpLB41X : alluminumtubing- do you guys have any over 12 flights, and if so, is it 2 captains and 2 FOs like DL or 1 CA and 3 FOs like UA?
27 catdaddy63 : For 2012, the IRS limits 401K contributions to $17000, or $22500 if the individual is age 50 or older.
28 aluminumtubing : The standard limit for this year, is of course $17000 plus catch up of $5500 for being over 50. But the limit with company contributions included is
29 XFSUgimpLB41X : Blargh! That's another place where you guys are far from the top. Don't forget that with these negotiations to try to bring you "down" to the level o
30 RyanairGuru : Excuse my ignorance, but what's an FB and FC?
31 aluminumtubing : They are affectionately called FB -Food Boy and FC - Food Critic. They are the two relief FO's.
32 aluminumtubing : Here is a link from a DFW radio talk show program today. AA spokesman and APA spokesman were invited. AA no showed, but APA did show up. Well presente
33 LAXdude1023 : Aluminumtubing, what would you say the largest sticking points in the negotiations are? What is it that AA doesnt want to give in on and what is it th
34 aluminumtubing : It was to a certain extent, but most of the points weren't far off. AA's speaking points are somewhat a bashfest as well. The host invited both sides
35 commavia : The key, I think, is what the APA is defining as "industry standard" as related to scope. Would, for example, the APA accept something similar to the
36 incitatus : By industry standard he meant pick the best bits of every single contract out there and piece them together.
37 aluminumtubing : You bring up an excellent point regarding scope as it relates to Delta. I am going to give MY opinion on this. If the pilots want Delta's pay and con
38 aluminumtubing : If I may be direct..... All your posts are so one sided and do not appear to come from a sincere informed viewpoint. I really don't know where you co
39 aaexecplat : So to state the obvious...this is a huge benefit. The company contribution alone can equal more than the Annual US Median Wage. Do you pilots conside
40 commavia : Yes. Well, as I said, I think it's clear AA has been less than forthcoming in their willingness to negotiate. That is pretty clear. The question now
41 norcal : At this point, Delta scope would be an improvement over the LBFO and the term sheet. I'd even say that the pay rates should be less then Delta right
42 Post contains images Darksnowynight : I would think that's certainly possible. But given the level of escalationary risk, it would have been a foolhardy or desperate thing to do. Maybe. T
43 Post contains images aluminumtubing : Yes, it is a good benefit. I hope it wasn't me people hear whining? We were getting contributions into our A fund and 11% of salary put into our B fu
44 aluminumtubing : That sentiment has been common with just about 95% of all the regional jumpseaters I have had. They don't want us to pull the rug out from under them
45 commavia : But, for APA members, the current Delta scope would be a huge downgrade, strategically, from the previous AA scope provision - that was the point I w
46 aluminumtubing : True, but the language was "quite vague".
47 JoeCanuck : Because negotiating in public is idiotic. The situation is heated enough as it is without both sides continuing to stir the pot with moronic public a
48 Joeljack : The past few years my dad has been flying OMA-TPA every other week and likes to book in advance. He was splitting his trips between F9 and AA the pas
49 aaexecplat : I think that sounds very fair. Wouldn't that be of very little value since most of you would butt up to your 1000 hour annual flight hour limit?
50 aluminumtubing : I couldn't agree more!
51 aluminumtubing : For anyone interested in the latest on the negotiations between APA and AA, below is a copy of the latest email blast from the APA negotiating committ
52 TWA85 : This great news to hear!
53 lightsaber : What are the differences? I keep hearing complaints, but what specifically do they want on the final paper? Something materially superior to what DL
54 aluminumtubing : The guidance is a industry standard contract, which by definition should be fair for both sides. If the pilots were asking to have a contract package
55 ckfred : I know a retired business professor who has seen some studies that suggest that the first employer and its culture has a greater effect on the manage
56 Revelation : Trying desperately to avoid taking this off-topic, but it's not clear if we'd put AA in the "regularly successful" column or not, and Lou Gerstner's
57 ckfred : A little off topic, but I was on a couple of AA flights the last two weeks. In both instances, the pilots stayed in the cockpits while the passengers
58 lightsaber : Agreed. My point is without a fair moderator, it will just be one sided kwap that AMR should not participate in a debate. No argument, but how much c
59 aluminumtubing : Once again, posted below is an update from the APA negotiating committee that came out this morning for anyone interested..... -----------------------
60 par13del : A couple question if anyone knows the specifics. Usually one get's a certain number of sick days per year, is this a requirement to re-instate the day
61 aluminumtubing : I believe so, but ONLY for an injury on duty, not for regular sick usage. The issue is not specific to location, but input to ensure a safe clean env
62 gegarrenton : Thx for update! Hopefully this all gets hammered out before too long.
63 ckfred : I understand the language regarding the A319, but I didn't think AA was going to take any 737-700s, either NG or MAX. Is this just in case AA becomes
64 Post contains links commavia : The APA sure seems to be quite confident of its negotiating position. Will be interesting to see how this works out ...
65 aluminumtubing : No specific orders on the -700's. Only makes sense to include like type aircraft so AA has the flexibility and the pay rates to go with possible futu
66 commavia : That sounds like a good thing. Fair. Yep - to be expected. It will be very interesting to see what the APA demands, versus what the company is willin
67 pu : Thats a very interesting option. Who is meant to be interested in buying the pilots' claim? Private equity, eg Texas Pacific Partners? Hedge Funds? I
68 aluminumtubing : That statement is all we know regarding the equity stake. I had heard rumblings of that, but as of now, there is no other information available. If I
69 RyanairGuru : Does this mean that the S80 and 738 are currently in the same pay group? If so I find that slightly surprising given that the S80 is smaller and the
70 aluminumtubing : They will be in the same "group". Currently, we don't have groups, just pay rates based on a formula which consists of speed, weight, etc. Currently,
71 Acey559 : This was most surprising to me. What was APA given to offset not being able to call management out on their salary? Also, does the compensation inclu
72 aluminumtubing : I don't fully understand all that this piece entails.
73 Revelation : Some of these details seem to me to give some credence to Carty's claim in the recent thread where he said he retired in part because he was unhappy
74 aluminumtubing : Carry didn't "retire" . He was forced out. I also disagree with his assessment. It relates to the pension hit. That loss puts us is a creditor positi
75 pu : ...and given management's fabulous and thorough erasure of shareholder value, the pilots' position as creditors makes a helluva argument that they ar
76 Revelation : It's interesting then how the pilots are looking into how to cash out that position:
77 pu : Because owning a piece of a company run by this management has already proven a catastrophic investment once, any pilot would only be rational to pre
78 Post contains links catdaddy63 : Looks like the current round of talks might be coming to a positive end. http://www.kvue.com/news/176098131.html
79 aluminumtubing : The article states an 11% contribution of salary to the 401k. In actuality, it is 14%. We are hearing conflicting information, but the "Official" cha
80 AAR90 : 11% is an accurate number. 14% was the company's offer for replacing BOTH retirement plans (A-fund & B-fund) with a single 401k plan. There has b
81 aluminumtubing : You are absolutely correct. My error. Thanks.
82 aluminumtubing : Once again, here is the latest email blast from the APA negotiating team for those interested on the latest... Fellow pilots, This update will be some
83 BD338 : thanks for posting that info. A great insight for an industry outsider on the massive complexities involved. Of course the management group are toyin
84 commavia : How sad. It appears the two sides have moved far closer, but not close enough - the minimum of what APA is willing to accept ("industry standard," as
85 RyanairGuru : At first I was about to disagree vehemently with you, but then I went and re-read the letter. I can now see where you're coming from. It appears to s
86 LAXintl : Seems like the concept is for AA-DL-UA to have very similar contracts. Anyhow, if APA pulls this off kudos to them for looking down the barrel of the
87 Pu : Roger Staubach was at his best in the 1970s....a few directors with tight business discipline and the ability to reject ingrained management mindset
88 ckfred : It seems to me that AMR management and APA leadership are close enough that someone should say, "Let's split the remaining differences 50-50 and be d
89 RyanairGuru : I'm not in any way saying that Parker is the next Gordon Bethune, but seeing the improvement at US over the last couple of years (both financially and
90 gegarrenton : I would have to violently disagree with that. I get stuck on US from time to time because of my locale, and it is still as an excruciatingly painful
91 RyanairGuru : In which case we will have to agree to disagree. Back in the 2002-05 timeframe we used to fly them quite a bit MAN-PHL-xxx. Back then it was a terrib
92 gegarrenton : Certainly, I respect your veiwpoint on it. I have flow US since they took over Piedmont, I live in Virginia Beach, fly out of ORF. I have not seen an
93 aluminumtubing : Latest email from the negotiating committee on November 4 below...... Over the past four days, we have finalized contract language to the point that t
94 commavia : Given the context of the APA's exercise in expectation management with its members earlier in the week, I find three things particularly notable abou
95 aluminumtubing : [quote=commavia,reply=94]First is the reference to an "industry pay-parity adjustment," which would indicate to me - perhaps incorrectly - that the AP
96 Post contains links commavia : Fascinating item posted this evening on the excellent Dallas Morning News airline blog - a letter purportedly from an AA pilot paints a fascinating, d
97 BarryH : This, to all but 5% of AA's existing pilots. Kind of makes the below a minor issue; especially with a couple of seats and pounds of differnce between
98 neveragain : Fascinating! (x2!)
99 Post contains images lightsaber : It looks like that is happening: I'm curious on the terms... (max number, MTOW, etc.) Except AMR is in bankruptcy. Generally to pull out, costs must
100 BDL757 : I know this has been touched on a little but can any clarify how much the codesharing will be allowed? Both domestically and internationally as well.
101 crAAzy : Just curious as to any provisions for profit sharing with the new contract. Anyone have any info?
102 Post contains links and images LAXintl : AA and APA have reached an AIP. Apparently the company agreed to APA's comprehensive counter-proposal. Next steps is to have the agreement drafted, th
103 aluminumtubing : Yes, we have a TA. It looked like things were going down hill and this afternoon the APA board voted 13-2 to send APA's last best final offer to AA. A
104 davidCA : Congratulations! I hope it's a deal that the pilots are able to ratify and that keeps AA competitive.
105 flyfree727 : I," too" anxiously await to hear the details!! congrats on reaching a deal!! AA ORD
106 LAXintl : Voting began on Friday with results due December 7th.
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