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Why Won't The Peotone Airport Die?  
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 5 days ago) and read 8431 times:

A few days ago, Illinois governor Pat Quinn submitted a draft of the airport plan to the FAA and also requested the state borrow $71 million dollars more for land acquisition after already spending $30 million.

My question is this: Why does this "airport" keep coming up? With the ORD expansion plan and the GYY runway extension underway, as well as other airports in the area capable of handling the traffic (RFD & MKE) why would there even be a need for a "Third Major Chicago Airport"? And why is the state so keen on pushing it forward?


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4996 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days ago) and read 8413 times:

Personally I think if they tried to build a Peotone airport, it'd become another Mirabel.

There is too much money invested in ORD to even think about building another airport out in the middle of nowhere. If you remember ORD was kind of in the middle of nowhere when it was first built.

One thing it is good for: To be used by the Illinois politico's to threaten any requests for expansion at ORD or MDW.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8267 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 1):
One thing it is good for: To be used by the Illinois politico's to threaten any requests for expansion at ORD or MDW.

Not much of a threat, if you ask me. WHAT airline, in their right mind, is going to want to move their operations to Peotone, with possibly already having ops at MDW and ORD or at least ORD? Just makes no sense, especially as far away as it is (40 miles). Is it to be primarly an O&D airport or just for connections, or both?

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Thread starter):
A few days ago, Illinois governor Pat Quinn submitted a draft of the airport plan to the FAA and also requested the state borrow $71 million dollars more for land acquisition after already spending $30 million.

Not a very sound fiscal policy, considering that the state is broke, but then, Quinn IS a Democrat.
 



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4456 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8245 times:

Reminds me of the takeover of SWF by the PANYNJ. Brilliant move.  

User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8216 times:

The thing that bothers me most is I just looked at the plan and they want to build (in their "future plans") a four runway airport that resembles the likes of ATL or LAX. Isn't the area already covered well enough by the existing airports? Why would we ever need something that big?
http://www.southsuburbanairport.com/...erPlan/reports/MP-Report-Plans.htm



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinecygnuschicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7991 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Thread starter):
Illinois governor Pat Quinn submitted a draft of the airport plan to the FAA and also requested the state borrow $71 million dollars more for land acquisition after already spending $30 million.

So, after raising state income taxes by a staggering 66%, Quinn is now wasting it on a handout to some special interest groups who want a cornfields airport!

Peotone is such an ill-conceived idea, that it makes Thames Estuary airport look like a thoroughly sane concept by comparison.



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1944 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7957 times:
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May I just remind everyone of the recent discussion here about the similarily ill-concieved Ciudad Real Airport in Spain?

Ciudad Real-Spain's Ghost Airport (by okAY Jul 11 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Wikipedia article here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudad_Real_Airport

When Ryanair can't make it work then what chances does anyone else stand. Need I say more other than this is not the only Ghost Airport in Spain.



Next Flights: 27/06/14 CX 178 MEL-HKG; 28/06/14 CX 830 HKG-JFK; 04/07/14 EI 134 BOS-SNN
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

Quoting cygnuschicago (Reply 5):
Quinn is now wasting it on a handout to some special interest groups who want a cornfields airport!

Who are the special interest groups and why do they want a cornfield airport?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39860 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Thread starter):
the GYY runway extension underway,


  
That is great news and I'm glad to see the airport in the city of my birthplace finally expand and being put to proper use.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 1):
If you remember ORD was kind of in the middle of nowhere when it was first built.


That was long before the massive suburban sprawl of Chicago.




Not to mention, Petone's biggest advocate (Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr) has been absent for over 3 months and is now in a mental hospital and has been officially declared mentally ill and being treated for mental illness and intestinal issues. I'm not making this up and I don't want this to turn political.
The people of Peotone and their own Congressman Adam Kinzinger do not want this airport. It's old fashion pork-barrel spending and the only reason Pat Quinn and Jesse Jackson jr are advocating this is because Peotone is on the Illinois side of the boarder. If there were no state boundary between Gary and Chicago, all of the Chicago machine politicians would be in favor of expanding GYY. Luckily some politicos on the Illinois side understands this but Gov. Pat Quinn and Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. still want to play the old game.
The whole idea is rather crazy when you consider what is feasible and already available.

[Edited 2012-10-03 06:25:15]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1559 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7603 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
Not much of a threat, if you ask me. WHAT airline, in their right mind, is going to want to move their operations to Peotone, with possibly already having ops at MDW and ORD or at least ORD? Just makes no sense, especially as far away as it is (40 miles). Is it to be primarly an O&D airport or just for connections, or both?

This is just like the plans about turning Newburgh/Stewart into the "new JFK" - it only works with a fantastic investment in infratstructure and access routes (particularly HSR to downtown) that is just impractical on any rational level. The idea itself is sound, but the investment required to make it appealing would be prohibitive beyond belief.


User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Not to mention, Petone's biggest advocate (Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr) has been absent for over 3 months and is now in a mental hospital and has been officially declared mentally ill and being treated for mental illness and intestinal issues. I'm not making this up and I don't want this to turn political.
The people of Peotone and their own Congressman Adam Kinzinger do not want this airport. It's old fashion pork-barrel spending and the only reason Pat Quinn and Jesse Jackson jr are advocating this is because Peotone is on the Illinois side of the boarder. If there were no state boundary between Gary and Chicago, all of the Chicago machine politicians would be in favor of expanding GYY. Luckily some politicos on the Illinois side understands this but Gov. Pat Quinn and Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. still want to play the old game.
The whole idea is rather crazy when you consider what is feasible and already available.

Exactly, JJR sees this as a jobs creation program and not a spending issue. Also, what the State is looking at is a Illiana expressway close to this area. Hell, it's right on top of it, so I'm thinking this is another reason why the State is pushing this hard.

http://www.illianacorridor.org/

So Petone now becomes a regional trucking/rail/air facility. Who need passengers when freight is focused on.


User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7462 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 10):
Exactly, JJR sees this as a jobs creation program and not a spending issue.

Sounds a lot like the South China Mall or all the ghost cities in China. The government pushes for them to be built to keep construction workers in business and GDP up, but when completed, they sit and rot.



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User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3012 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7436 times:
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If you want a very similar situation to Peotone, look up Toronto Pickering Airport. Been brewing for years, massive land buy outs in the 60s and 70s, and now it sits vacant waiting for the bulldozers that may never come...


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39860 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7368 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 9):
access routes (particularly HSR to downtown)
Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 10):
Also, what the State is looking at is a Illiana expressway close to this area.



Gary, Indiana (GYY) sits right next to the Indiana tollroad which leads directly to the Chicago Skyway bridge. Just a short jaunt up Stoney Island to Lake Shore Drive will get you to downtown Chicago in 20 minutes.
Also the Northern Indiana Rail (fmr. South Bend South Shore) is also next to GYY and gets you in to downtown Chicago in 30 minutes.

The I-57 leads you to the Dan Ryan which is a perpetual traffic jam and can take over 3 hours to get to downtown. It's 1 & a half hour without traffic.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7256 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Gary, Indiana (GYY) sits right next to the Indiana tollroad which leads directly to the Chicago Skyway bridge. Just a short jaunt up Stoney Island to Lake Shore Drive will get you to downtown Chicago in 20 minutes.

Gary is probably faster to get to than O'hare is from downtown. It once took me an hour to get from O'hare to downtown and then it was 45 minutes from downtown to Portage IN which is another 15 miles beyond Gary, using I-90.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39860 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 14):
Gary is probably faster to get to than O'hare is from downtown. It once took me an hour to get from O'hare to downtown and then it was 45 minutes from downtown to Portage IN which is another 15 miles beyond Gary, using I-90.

1 hour from O'hare to The Loop is the norm unless you come in very late at night.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 14):
Portage IN which is another 15 miles beyond Gary

I grew up just a few blocks west of County Line road in Miller (Miller Beach).
Our trips to O'hare even back in the 1970s took forever.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7163 times:

Look at who owns the land they want to buy. Democrats and Republicans in Illinois are equal opportunity offenders. Check out the land deals and road plans surrounding Dennis Hastert, a former school teacher who got elected to Congress, then became Speaker of the House, after Newt left until 2007. Came to politics as a working stiff and left as a multimillionaire after buying farmland and cheap prices and selling it to the State to build a highway. They even moved the highway so it would go right through Hastert's land. The SW suburbs are growing however, and 40 years from now, this might be a good idea. But with RFD, and GYY, and MKE, and the locations of the current higher income suburban areas and the city, Peotone's usefulness is a long long way off.

User currently offlineusafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6530 times:

There is another ghost airport in Illinois, Mid America (BLV) which costs our county millions each year in bond interest payments. I believe it cost about $78M to build about 10 years ago and has never had full time passenger service, just fits and starts. Allegiant Air is back with two round trips a week to Sanford, but that is temporary and just a small dent in the overall costs. With STL just a few miles away and 65% below capacity due to the TWA/AA drawdown, Mid America will never make a go of it. Enough with the ghost airports in Illinois.

User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6148 times:

As a north-side resident I'm just going to throw this out there... If I have to drive all the way out to g-ddamn f--king nowhere to catch a plane then I'm probably just going to drive to wherever I'm going. This would be another mirabel for sure...which we surely cannot afford.

User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6081 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 18):
As a north-side resident I'm just going to throw this out there... If I have to drive all the way out to g-ddamn f--king nowhere to catch a plane then I'm probably just going to drive to wherever I'm going

I would say the same for us west suburban residents, there really is no easy way to get there, a lot of highway would have to be built to even make this make sense. I would almost draw a line at I-88 and say that everything north of that its just too far out of the way, the highway system takes you into the city, not to the south of it.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39860 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 19):
the highway system takes you into the city, not to the south of it.



The Tri-state tollway (I-294) is always a mess as well which is the shortest link to I-57 south to get you to Peotone.

If there needs to be any airport build in the Chicagoland area it should be to simply repave Meigs Field.
Problem solved.

Till then, Gary, Indiana is the best solution.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineericaasen From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

Why won't this airport die? Simple huge construction companies are giving kickbacks to dirty politicians. Or maybe I should say campaign contributions. They know the only people to benefit from this airport will be the construction companies contracted to build it and the only jobs that will be created will be temporary. But this is an election year with a bad economy and lots of people out of work, so talking about adding jobs, even temporary ones, sounds really good to desperate people looking for anything to pay the bills.

User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4996 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

If you want to hear moaning and groaning over airport locations just ask anyone who lived on the North Shore in the 50's when MDW was the airport in town. No freeways to take, just main boulevards all the way down there. I have an uncle who said it would take 2.5 hours to get to MDW from Lake Forest in light traffic!


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3177 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Chicago certainly doesn't need another airport today or in the near future. Having said that, I see nothing wrong with preserving land for future use in case the need arises in 50 years. In the mean time, it can sit there and continue to be used as is.. I assume mostly farming.

"Its to far from the city"
"It will never be needed"

These are the kinds of things that were commonly said in Munich and Denver before their new airports. Who's to say what course aviation will take in the decades ahead? Of course it is completely plausible that Chicago's current aviation system can once again become overwhelmed in the decades ahead.

The city and its suburbs will grow with or without the airport, making future land acquisition that much harder. Even at YMX the suburbs of Montreal are now only a few miles away from the airport.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 4):
The thing that bothers me most is I just looked at the plan and they want to build (in their "future plans") a four runway airport that resembles the likes of ATL or LAX.

Actually up to 6 runways if you look closely.



FLYi
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Welcome to IL and Chicago politics...I suggest for an answer watch the show boss it will show you how things get done in this city and state. Its all about handing out contracts to their cronies and which is why the state is the worst or near bottom in money problems out of all 50 states. Ohh how i miss meigs

25 Superfly : There is already an airport in the Chicagoland area that is under-utilized and being upgraded. It's GYY - Gary, Indiana which is MUCH closer to downt
26 canyonblue17 : According to Mapquest, from downtown Chicago it would take 25mins to ORD and 55mins to Peotone. The difference in cost of gas would be about $5 accord
27 RyanairGuru : It is understandable (kind of) that IL politicians want to keep the jobs in the state, Indianans aren't going to vote for them. However, if they ask
28 elbandgeek : Honestly, some of you people are really full of yourselves The need for a third airport is not there right now, no one is arguing that. But the attitu
29 Post contains images AussieItaliano : Exactly. The only way to get airlines to serve Peotone would be to close ORD. Otherwise, no airline is going to want to have its Chicago operations s
30 Post contains images KELPkid : It will make an excellent GA airport, and probably make up for a certain ex-mayor's destruction of CGX
31 PITrules : Chicago is a huge city, more so than Denver or Munich and can support multiple airports. I don't see it as an apples to apples comparison. However, l
32 SFOHORIZON : Speculating about Gary is all fine and nice, but there is one giant barrier to the development of Gary's airport..... It's not in Illinois. The main r
33 ericaasen : That may be, but it's kinda hard to fly out of an airport with no commercial service, just ask the people living east of St. Louis. This point cannot
34 milesrich : Are you saying Peotone will make an excellent GA airport? Are you serious or teasing? It's not close to where business people want to go. The GA traf
35 Superfly : Gary, Indiana currently serves that purpose. That is why Boeing execs park their corporate jets at GYY. It's only 20-25 minutes from their office dow
36 Aesma : Well Mirabel has been mentioned. I just realized that it's now cargo only, I flew there in 2002 with Corsair. I'm not sure it's very successful as it
37 HOMsAR : Peotone is simply way too far away to be useful to Chicago-bound traffic (I mean city, not region). It also lacks something that would be humongously
38 AussieItaliano : Sure, Chicago can support multiple airports, but can it support multiple large international airports when one of them is much closer to the city cen
39 kordcj : Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought sometime ago in the mid 90s both Gary and Chicago formed some sort of regional airport authority (something like
40 Superfly : Jesse Jackson Jr would have so much more credibility if he proposed demolishing large abandoned tracts of land in his district on the south side of Ch
41 Post contains images ER757 : They're politicians from Illinois - need any more be said? I grew up there, I know the way Chicago and Illinois politics work. Heck, I am pretty sure
42 Post contains links tjwgrr : Add to the whole mix that there are $1.1B in upgrades proposed for MDW: Major Upgrades May Be Coming To MDW (by KarlB737 Sep 22 2012 in Civil Aviatio
43 BravoGolf : You are correct. The Chicago Gary Regional Airport Authority formed April 15, 1995 and active to the present.
44 kordcj : Ahh yes, Mayor Daley's crafty plan to prevent the takeover of ORD. I remember whoever the governor of IL was at the time being practically red from a
45 SurfandSnow : The Peotone Airport seems to be a component of a bigger infrastructure development in that area. My grandma lives in Beecher, IL (just a few miles eas
46 BravoGolf : The CGRAA does not get involved in the day to day operations of the three airports. Its 12 member board, 6 from Indiana, 6 from Illinois, have oversi
47 BlueLine : What airlines would want to move or start ops at Peotone? The only one I can think of is NK, and that's if they get a sweet deal on landing fees and f
48 Post contains images mayor : Hey, go easy on ol' Denny.....he was my social studies teacher in high school in '66. The way I see it, the whole problem with GYY is that it ISN'T i
49 Post contains images Superfly : If the state boundary was parallel with the time zone boundary - going eastward and encompassing the northwest Indiana 'region', cities like Gary pro
50 kngkyle : I think it makes sense to buy the land and plan for the future. However, it does not make sense to build the airport at this time.
51 milesrich : Gary is an old steel town that had urban problems going back to the early 60's. White flight to south, to suburbs Munster and Crowne Point, left a dy
52 Superfly : Many of those well to do 'Yuppie's have their beach home in Gary - Miller Beach. While most of Gary's lakfront is industrial, the far east part of Ga
53 milesrich : If Lake County, Indiana could support a commercial airport, they would have one. Gary has had service before, and obviously, it was not profitable.
54 Superfly : Only small potatoes, fly by night carriers such as Hooters Air and Pan Am3 served GYY. JetBlue considered GYY but Daly made sure that didn't happen.
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