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AA ATR Withdrawal On MIA-NAS Complete Nov 15th  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4470 posts, RR: 7
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5744 times:

Just downloaded and checked the new AA timetable and MIA-NAS will be all ERJ-145 (and 1 ERJ-140) starting on November 15th.

For a route that traditionally carries a lot of extra passenger bags I wonder how AA will cope with the rather limited baggage capacity on the RJs compared to the ATRs.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5734 times:

Well this sucks. The ATR's were always a rather exotic aircraft to me and it looked so at-home on the ground in NAS with the palm trees and Caribbean setting. Also, in addition to a cargo capacity decrease, isn't this a rather drastic passenger decrease? Will there be any added frequencies?

User currently offlinedoug From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 854 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5681 times:

It looks like most if not all ATR's are gone from MIA all of the flights to JAX and EYW are rj's as NOV 15.

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4470 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting doug (Reply 2):
It looks like most if not all ATR's are gone from MIA all of the flights to JAX and EYW are rj's as NOV 15.

Yeah, seems that way.

What's going to happen to all those ATR pilots????


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6661 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

ATRs sell left and right but a company looking for efficiency everywhere replaces them with RJs every other company is trying to sell. Makes sense.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2388 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5417 times:

I guess some of them will be losing their jobs. Interestingly enough until some days ago quite a few flights from MIA where showing with ERJ-140 and ERJ-145 equipment and as operated by Executive Airlines from January onwards, now all has disappeared and is back to American Eagle.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

Wonder why AA did not order some ATR72-600´s, surprised they are going down the E145 route with reduced seating/cargo....


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinevikinga346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

So are we sure the AA are selling all of their ATRs?


...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5178 times:

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
For a route that traditionally carries a lot of extra passenger bags I wonder how AA will cope with the rather limited baggage capacity on the RJs compared to the ATRs.

Loss in revenue on the bags is a given, having less cargo capacity will not force travellers NOT to purchase in Mia and carry home. Bahamians for example also ship a lot of stuff home via boat, take a look at South River drive, so it is not as if flying with excess bags is our only option.

On the number of seats, time will tell, certainely the jets are more expensive to operate on these short flights, certainely the busy xmas season will show how this should shake out next year.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Quoting vikinga346 (Reply 7):
So are we sure the AA are selling all of their ATRs?

Thee are a good number of them sitting at AvCraft Technical services in MYR waiting for a new home so I know don't know if they are selling ALL of them, but they are selling a good deal of them.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
Just downloaded and checked the new AA timetable and MIA-NAS will be all ERJ-145 (and 1 ERJ-140) starting on November 15th.

Yes. Looks like all of the new LAX SkyWest Eagle flying has also now been fully loaded.

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
For a route that traditionally carries a lot of extra passenger bags I wonder how AA will cope with the rather limited baggage capacity on the RJs compared to the ATRs.

I would guess that AA analyzed the situation and determined that any extra revenue that could be derived from larger bag and/or cargo capacity on these flights still did not justify the added cost of a fleet of old, maintenance-intensive, and costly ATR72s, particularly since there are so few of them left.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
The ATR's were always a rather exotic aircraft

You say "exotic." I say "awful." Most of Eagle's ATRs are horribly outdated and had not been refurbished in years. They are badly showing their age.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 4):
ATRs sell left and right but a company looking for efficiency everywhere replaces them with RJs every other company is trying to sell. Makes sense.

It does make sense. The ATRs selling "left and right" are brand new, substantially upgraded, and more fuel efficient models, not the ancient vintage of ATR72 that Eagle flies.

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 6):
Wonder why AA did not order some ATR72-600´s, surprised they are going down the E145 route with reduced seating/cargo....

I suspect RJs are not the permanent solution for replacing the ATR72s, but rather an interim measure until AMR has the time to analyze a more suitable long-term replacement for many of the former ATR missions - they will probably go with either new ATR72s or Q400s. Ultimately, given where the economics of 50-seat jets are going, AMR will probably, in the long-run, end up replacing a lot RJ capacity with large turboprops, not the other way around.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
I suspect RJs are not the permanent solution for replacing the ATR72s, but rather an interim measure until AMR has the time to analyze a more suitable long-term replacement for many of the former ATR missions - they will probably go with either new ATR72s or Q400s

Or they could be following DL and getting rid of all turboprops.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
Or they could be following DL and getting rid of all turboprops.

My personal opinion, based solely on what we have seen happen to the economics of small RJs, is that you are going to see both carriers - AA and Delta - move back into turboprops in the next few years. There are some markets where a 50-seat RJ is simply no longer economically viable, but where a 70-seat RJ would also be too large and uneconomic. For many of these markets, turboprops like Q400s and/or newer ATR72s makes sense.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

All Executive (ATR) pilots are slowly displacing to the Eagle side of the operation, so no job losses. All ATRs will be gone by sometime next year, I believe. Rumor has it that a chunk of the LAX EMBs will be reallocated and we'll be seeing RJs in SJU eventually. Nothing official, just rumors for now.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 13):
All Executive (ATR) pilots are slowly displacing to the Eagle side of the operation, so no job losses.

Good to hear.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 13):
Rumor has it that a chunk of the LAX EMBs will be reallocated and we'll be seeing RJs in SJU eventually. Nothing official, just rumors for now.

I remember those rumors being mentioned in the past. That would be fascinating to see - I just have a hard time imagining a tiny base of RJs making sense out of SJU, particularly now that the mainline operation in SJU feeding those RJs is so small, and given that there are so few markets left in the Caribbean that already have or could have nonstop flights to MIA. Of the few markets left, I always thought the ERJs were in several cases a no-go because of runway length.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):

Runway length was my first concern as well. I guess some markets will forfit service when the jets are moved down there. I could see maybe a codeshare with LIAT to hel pwith some of that?


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting doug (Reply 2):
It looks like most if not all ATR's are gone from MIA all of the flights to JAX and EYW are rj's as NOV 15.

You wouldn't think EYW 's runway is long enough,but it must be.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineCRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Saw the other day the Delta 73G landing and taking off from EWY Airport... So if a 737-700 can do it, I guess an ERJ can do the mission as well... I had a great farewell flight on the ATR, great plane, very powerful although outdated... Cheers for the "Super ATR!"


With Age comes Wisdom...
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

One consideration that has not yet been mentioned in this thread ... isn't part of the reason AMR is drawing down ATR ops is so they can phase out the Executive operation altogether? The operating costs for the ATR are somewhat skewed compared to the ERJs by the fact that AMR is operating an entire subsidiary for one aircraft type. Eliminating the ATRs also elminiates the extra overhead that comes with OW.


I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlinehaggisman From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

Presumably the Miami-Marsh Harbour flight will be using something else too - anyone have any idea what equipment will be used on that leg? It was an ATR when we went in 2009

Scotty



e pluribus Scotsman
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4470 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

Quoting haggisman (Reply 19):
Presumably the Miami-Marsh Harbour flight will be using something else too - anyone have any idea what equipment will be used on that leg? It was an ATR when we went in 2009

ERJ-140 (ERD)


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6174 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 17):
Saw the other day the Delta 73G landing and taking off from EWY Airport... So if a 737-700 can do it, I guess an ERJ can do the mission as well... I had a great farewell flight on the ATR, great plane, very powerful although outdated... Cheers for the "Super ATR!"

I had my farewell a few months ago on MIA-NAS...for all their rattiness...I will miss the variety!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinelarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

Quoting vikinga346 (Reply 7):
So are we sure the AA are selling all of their ATRs?

AA didn't own any of the ATR's. They sold them a few ago to NAC/Nordic Aviation Capital



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):

Apparently a lot of the flights will be flown through Miami. Say for instance, MIA-LRM-SJU-SXM-SJU...etc. etc. We'll see, but it seems AA still wants to provide a presence down there. To further compound the rumor, we received a new High Enroute chart for the Eastern Caribbean with our last revision, so take that as you will.  

Runway isn't a problem for the EMB except a few cities, which I presume will be dropped/codeshared. The EMB can do EYW, but we have to do them flaps 22 in the -145 or 18 in the -135/-140.


User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

This is from an internal American Eagle announcement....a portion of the notice that included adding SkyWest and ExpressJet to the mix.

"And, as previously announced, American has negotiated the early return of the ATRs. This fleet is old, and there are very high maintenance and leasing costs associated with these aircraft. This action will result in the closure of the Miami (MIA) Executive pilot and flight attendant domiciles on Nov. 15. However, all Executive pilots and flight attendants will be able to use their seniority to bid for positions at American Eagle – including positions at MIA. We do not foresee any furloughs as a result of this displacement. We do anticipate that American Eagle will be providing more regional jet flying out of MIA to replace some of the discontinued ATR flying. Additionally, all MIA and Key West Executive employees will become American Eagle employees as of Jan. 1, 2013."



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
25 N766UA : They're heading to RJ's. I thought all the ATRs were gone already?
26 guyanam : The various Eastern Caribbean govts are frantic with worry about what AA plans to do with its SJU hub. A conference in SKB will be attended by a very
27 NWADTWE16 : From what i can see B6 plan is to keep growing SJU and make it the premier Carribean hub/Focus city just like the AA of past. B6 operation there is g
28 Cubsrule : I'm not sure that's true, actually. One of the advantages of OW was that Eagle was able to confine the costs of overwater operations to them rather t
29 usxguy : I thought they are trying to build a bigger runway @ EIS.
30 OB1504 : I can see how it would make sense to simplify the fleet by eliminating an aircraft type, but the ERJ is not a viable replacement for these aircraft.
31 usxguy : CRJ 700 also has better short-field characteristics. The ERJ's will have weight restrictions... that's why Delta preferred sending in the E135.
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