Captjetblast From Argentina, joined Aug 2001, 280 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
Alaska Airlines Flight 261 - 31 JAN 2000
Another pilot from an Aero Commander 690A, registrated N50DX, kept visual contact with AS261, as requested by LAX, reporting, as extracted from CVR, what follows:
16:20:20 N50DX Plane's inverted sir
16:20:22 R14 OK very good it looks like he's turning ah turning over in front of you now Skywest fifty one fifty four you still got your eyes on him sir
16:20:29 SKW5154 (unintelligible) he's in sight he ah definitely out of control
16:20:32 R14 OK very good
16:20:39 SKW5154 (unintelligible) he's inverted
R14 = Los Angeles ARTCC Sector 14
ASA261= Alaska Airlines Flight 261
N50DX = Aero Commander 690A, registrated N50DX
SKW5154 = Skywest Flight 5154 (Santa Barbara - Los Angeles
The question is: can a MD-83 turn upside-down, inverted? Was everybody aboard hanging head down?
And finally, can a pilot recover from such a bad shape?
Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2191 times:
Yes, that was horrifying to hear. I too wondered what it must have been like for those poor passengers being dangeled from upside down. I was very impressed by the calmness of the cockpit crew.
This happened to a BA744. A guy stormed the cockpit and tried to take over the controls and apparently, this 744 flipped over in the midst of all of the chaos. Thank goodness this one landed safely and I heard even men were screaming and crying.
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
Airlines can fly upside, a 707 on one of the demo flight did a barrel role. Being able to recover from being upisde down is possible. However I think Alaska's problem was much larger then just inverted flight, going upside down was just a symptom!
CPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4761 posts, RR: 25 Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2179 times:
Given enough altitude and fully functioning engines and control surfaces, you can recover from inverted flight. However, when your stabilizer and elevators have gone crazy on you, there's nothing much you can do.
Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
lainhol-are you referring to Alaska or the BA incident?
Milldoh-I thought the response "very good" was strange too. However the more I listened to the CVR's (and I listened over and over), I realized that the controller's comment was directed towards the two pilots who were watching the aircraft. He had asked them to keep an eye out on the doomed jet, and to report to him whatever the MD80 was doing. So, whenever the two pilots reported what they saw (roll over, out of control, ect..) the controller's response was "very good" meaning, very good in reporting to me in an efficient manner. He surely wasn't saying that it was "very good" that the plane was out of control.
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2134 times:
Sorry I should have clarified I was refering to the BA incident ofver Kenya.
About the responce, the controller probably had very little knowledge on what was going on, I highly doubt he knew what the MD-80's problems where. I think his responce was more along the lines pleased to see you are still looking for him, rather then a response to what the aircraft is doing.
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
DL344, I am sure the crew of BA where very apologetic to all the pax. British Airways paid for all their hospital treatment and gave them a free flight.
I though it was sad that the general public bashed BA for not paying for the medical expenses of the attacker. I think BA did the right thing sending out the message that this behaviour would not be tolerated!
You will pleased to know that the captain is back flying again!
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2080 times:
December 28th on British Airways flight 2069 from London Gatwick to Nairbo Kenya a man went into the cockpit and attacked the crew. In the stuggle the auto pilot was turned off and the plane dove 1000's of feet. Some brave passengers sorted out the attacker while captain Hagan and the crew got the airplane back under control!
Wingman From Spain, joined May 1999, 2019 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
The Alaska crew is not part of the selected transcript in this post. Some people made comments about the guys being calm, that's the other guys listening from ATC and the ones watching from the two other planes nearby. Saying "OK, very good" is just an expression. I don't think the the ATC guys thought the accident was "very good" at all.
Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2032 times:
I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my post above. I know the crew members are not talking in this portion of the transcripts. I was referring to the conversations between the pilot and the first ATC (who is also not part of the above transcript). When the pilot was explaining the problem to the first ATC, he was pretty calm--concerned, but calm. The portion above is what took place AFTER the converation between the pilot and first ATC. The first ATC told the pilot that he was leaving his area and he switched him over to the one that's in the above transcripts. Yes, the ATC was saying "very good" to the other two pilots that were watching the MD80 as they reported to him what they were seeing. And it was indeed just an expression.
Gsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2033 times:
I've listened to the ATC recording for that flight.
First, the "very good" from the ATC was not a very good. He was first saying very good to the Skywest and the Delta? that were giving him information because he couldn't what Alaska 261 was doing (at that point the cockpit of 261 was not responding to him). Second, you have to hear the ATC's tone of voice..... actually, just listen to the whole thing. It made my stomach drop. But you can definately tell he didn't mean very good for 261.
Didn't an Eastwind have the same stabilizer problem as well? Not sure if it was inverted or not, but I remember one that landed safely in Richmond that had the same stabilizer problems as Alaska 261.
And if you want to hear the ATC recording, go to www.airdisaster.com .... don't listen to many of them, it'll make you feel awful.