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Alaska And Delta Have Big Announcement In SEA Mon  
User currently offlineBlueBus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48856 times:

Looks like Delta and Alaska will announce something big on Monday. Think it will be a merger? Lots of rumors about that. I also heard that Delta might base their 717s in Seattle. Could provide some interesting new routes that slot between AS 737s and Q400s.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2012/...s-alaska-and-delta-up-to-in-seatt/

302 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1048 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48774 times:

Joint venture? DL being the sole domestic codeshare for AS?

I don't have an idea. This is kind of out of left field. I'm guessing 200 posts by Monday Morning.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48687 times:

EDIT: In the interest of fair disclosure, it certainly appears the OP is affiliated with the aforementioned website. As of yet, AS has not issued a press release but I suspect the OP received a copy of one that will be published tomorrow.

- Unless the author received a copy of a press releases intended for tomorrow morning, Alaska did not issue a press release today.

- DL does not "base" aircraft at specific hubs. The 717 were acquired for a specific purpose - to back-fill capacity currently being operated with legions of CRJ, specifically at ATL & DTW. These aircraft will not be making appearances at SEA anytime soon.

- We can safely rule out a merger, since -- well, those types of things don't work this way.

- At best it's an expanded code/revenue share agreement and/or new service to PVG.

[Edited 2012-10-04 20:42:07]


Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineBlueBus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48622 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 2):
Alaska did not issue a press release today.

I am guessing they released at least one about the Salmon-30-Salmon II today. Plus I know the site is pretty legit.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 2):
- At best it's an expanded code/revenue share agreement and/or new service to PVG.

Is that really worth both CEO's making a joint announcement? I would think it would be more than that.


User currently offlineBlueBus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48550 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 2):
EDIT: In the interest of fair disclosure, it certainly appears the OP is affiliated with the aforementioned website. As of yet, AS has not issued a press release but I suspect the OP received a copy of one that will be published tomorrow.

I emailed the site owner to get clarification. I know he has an A.net account, but doesn't use it much.

[Edited 2012-10-04 20:47:32]

User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48400 times:

Quote:
Today Alaska Airlines sent out a press release stating that their CEO, Brad Tilden, and Delta Air Lines CEO, Richard Anderson, will make a joint announcement on Monday about, “new service, product enhancements in Seattle.” What does that mean exactly? I am not sure.

What press release? I subscribe to Alaska Press release, and I never received one, nor do I see anything posted in the newsroom of alaskaair.com

I'm inclined to dismiss this, until something comes from Alaska and/or Delta regarding this "announcement".


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48338 times:

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 3):
I am guessing they released at least one about the Salmon-30-Salmon II today. Plus I know the site is pretty legit.

Neither AS nor DL's website have any press releases in regards to a joint announcement Monday. A quick web search yielded only the referenced site as supporting it. I agree the site is legit ... but you've begun numerous threads linking back to it, and nearly all were started moments after the linked articles were posted. Thus, it's reasonable for me to conclude you have some type of affiliation with it.

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 5):
I'm inclined to dismiss this, until something comes from Alaska and/or Delta regarding this "announcement".

I'd expect a press release in the morning. In the past, the OP/site linked to has demonstrated access to privileged information before it became public.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4471 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48240 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
DL being the sole domestic codeshare for AS?

I thought AA codeshares with AS up and down the west coast?


User currently offlineAirlineReporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48244 times:

Hey folks, I am the origional author of the story. I apologize, it was not a press release, but it was a media adivsory that was sent earlier today. Hence why it has not shown up on AS or DL website, nor in people's inboxes if they are signed up for press releases. I have updated my story.

According to the advisory, the announcement will be made at 9:30am PT on Monday the 8th at SEA.

I have reached out to quite a few of my inside connections at AS and DL and no one seems to know what this announcement will mean.


User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1048 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48211 times:

I was just guessing. Nothing more, nothing less. (this is in response to post #7)

[Edited 2012-10-04 21:10:17]

User currently offlineAirlineReporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48181 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 6):
Thus, it's reasonable for me to conclude you have some type of affiliation with it.

Going to have to ask Dean (aka BlueBus) about that one. He is a fan and we have met a few times in Seattle, but he is not a writer or connected to my blog directly. I appriciate the support.

David


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 755 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 47948 times:

I would also guess that SEA-PVG will be announced, but there is definitely going to be more to this than just that. Maybe one or two other new routes and increased cooperation of some kind. They definitely wouldn't have both CEOs just for a few new routes.


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 47811 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 11):
I would also guess that SEA-PVG will be announced, but there is definitely going to be more to this than just that. Maybe one or two other new routes and increased cooperation of some kind. They definitely wouldn't have both CEOs just for a few new routes.

You'd think a media advisory for a "major announcement" would drum on speculation, but there's no evidence of such announcement on the Internet (not that I'm disputing it exists, as the site referenced has been credible, it just seems strange).

One thing's for certain: rumored "big" Delta announcements in Seattle have replaced the rumored "big" AirTran announcements of a.net yesteryear.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 47781 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 7):
Quoting Prost (Reply 1):
DL being the sole domestic codeshare for AS?

I thought AA codeshares with AS up and down the west coast?

Why would AS drop their largest code-share partner? Others have said that AA, not DL, is AS's largest and most lucrative code-share partner. Not sure if that is still true, but AS and AA have a pretty large partnership.

Given that AS's business model is partially based on strong code shares across two major alliances, it doesn't seem like a good long-term move to either give one side up (if they dropped AA, they'd probably have to drop QF and LA too - BA is non-existent as far as I'm concerned). Same goes for merging with DL. You've then just taken out a portion of AS's successful business model.

Let's hope it's SEA-PVG, or maybe even SEA-LHR with AS connections.


User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1048 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47691 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 13):

Again, it was just a WAG. Not based on any inside information whatsoever.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47695 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 12):
You'd think a media advisory for a "major announcement" would drum on speculation, but there's no evidence of such announcement on the Internet (not that I'm disputing it exists, as the site referenced has been credible, it just seems strange).

One thing's for certain: rumored "big" Delta announcements in Seattle have replaced the rumored "big" AirTran announcements of a.net yesteryear.

Just by reading what the OP said and his friend, this was a pre-curser so the announcement for the announcement (funny) will be made tomorrow.

Because it is being made on Monday morning, they have to let the news outlets know before the weekend.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47576 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
ust by reading what the OP said and his friend, this was a pre-curser so the announcement for the announcement (funny) will be made tomorrow.

Because it is being made on Monday morning, they have to let the news outlets know before the weekend.

Well, in reply 8 he claimed it had already been sent out early Thursday.



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47559 times:

In response to everybody who is saying that itwill probably be more than a new route announcement, with whome I completely agree, could AS possibly be moving their NYC operations over to JFK? It would make more sense as they codeshare with both DL and AA and the codeshare with UA is now gone. Just a guess, though.

Also, I'm thinking it could be some kind of joint venture, as well.

"Let's hope it's SEA-PVG, or maybe even SEA-LHR with AS connections."

Hey, stranger things have happened! What would they operate the route with? Isn't their 764 fleet stretched pretty thin as it is? Or could they use a 763?


User currently offlinegmcc From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47556 times:

Well the site does say produce enhancements. Two things come to mind for AS.

1) The work AS and the Port of Seattle are going to be doing in the North Satellite. I think the image in the link below is what they are going for.

http://www.hok.com/design/type/aviat...ttle-tacoma-international-airport/

2) AS in set to get the first of their new 900ER's in the next couple of weeks. They are introducing new economy and First seat on the 900er's. Shown at the bottom of page one in the link below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawks7757/

As for DL I do not have anything.


User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47518 times:

Interesting to see that the AS 739ERs will be N4XXAS registrations, rather then a continuation of the N3XXAS registrations currently used on the -900s.


Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 47418 times:

Not that i doubt the thread starter but lets wait to see something OFFICIAL......this site has made it hard to belive anything. It could be something very minor or something huge but i need to see something official to even discuss hypotheticals at this point of a.net

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13608 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 47118 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!




I KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING!!!



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 46752 times:

Going way into left field here but could it be DL picking up ground handling for AS stations that have mainline DL employees????

We shall see what Monday brings



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 46579 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 16):
Well, in reply 8 he claimed it had already been sent out early Thursday.
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 22):
Going way into left field here but could it be DL picking up ground handling for AS stations that have mainline DL employees????

We shall see what Monday brings

That won't warrent the bosses of both airlines. Stuff like that is very "dime a dozen". DL employees already handle AS flights anyway. EWR, MSP, ATL..



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineJetAmericaS80 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 46571 times:

Possibly AS augmenting SEA-SLC and ANC-SLC? I know that SLC is on Alaska's "to do" list...

JetA



The Best Buy in the Sky, Treat yourself to Jet America!
25 Post contains images jumpjets : As Oneworld are due to make an announcement in NYC on Monday also it must be that DL as AS are joining OW.
26 smpplnohow2fly : Horizon taking on some of the 64/76 seat flying?
27 Coronado : A media advisory being issued advising the press that both CEO's will be together at Seattle for an announcement implies a strategic rather than opera
28 ERJ170 : Well, for my own personal reason, I hope they also announce RDU-SEA service.. long overdue.. but I digress..
29 NWAESC : That crossed my mind too... True, but not in one of AS' hubs. If this were to come to pass, my guess is that it would be one piece of a larger announ
30 Bobloblaw : No to merger and certainly no to 717s being based in SEA. Why in the world would AS be partner to DL putting mountains of new capacity in SEA? I doub
31 CompensateMe : A media advisory issued more than 24-hours ago advising that the CEO's of Delta & Alaska were to meet for an announcement would surely have garner
32 Bobloblaw : Youre probably right, plus a JV would require either DOT or DOJ approval. They could do that of course.
33 avek00 : This is not going to happen, DOT and DOJ have long made clear that antitrust immunity will NOT be granted for domestic-focused cooperation by air car
34 syncmaster : And except for the later, I question if that would require both CEO's to announce.
35 vatveng : With Delta currently the only U.S. member of Skyteam, could this be announcing that Alaska is going to join the alliance?
36 Post contains images KBJCpilot : Delta will be giving Alaska 2- 744's to use between SEA and HNL for the Hawaii flights. I heard it from a pilot who heard it from a mechanic who heard
37 PSA1011 : Why didn't American dive into their alliance with Alaska like Delta has? From what I recall, AA discontinued SEA-NRT, and have no idea why.
38 Bobloblaw : That sounds like a reasonable guess. Not sure if AS would still then codeshare with AA. I think they would want to.
39 Airport : At this point could it be possible that DL would move domestic operations/int'l departures to the North Satellite? Or is that out of the question? I d
40 FlyASAGuy2005 : I was trying to be optimistic but this is looking more and more like baloney.
41 CONTACREW : Not likely. At the moment I believe only N10 is a widebody capable gate, and once AS N to themselves, the plan is to add jetways to the current expre
42 AirlineReporter : I have talked to both Alaska and Delta PR teams and have confirmed the advisory is correct. I have no idea how wide spread the advisory went out (ie
43 Bobloblaw : One possibility is that Horizon might start flying for DL on the west coast and SLC using DH4s.
44 drgmobile : I don't think it could be a merger since, as publicly traded companies the duty to timely disclose material news would preclude waiting until Monday.
45 Coronado : It This has to be a strategic announcement between Delta and Alaska, for Richard Anderson to show in Seattle on a Monday morning. Relocating terminals
46 DeltaMD90 : I think it's probably gonna be something important, not just a route, but I doubt it would be a merger or something. Probably just some increased coop
47 syncmaster : I agree this would make a lot of sense however this raises two questions for me: 1. Does Horizon have enough slack in their fleet to handle this? 2.
48 OzarkD9S : Well, there is the new SkyTeam "associate" platform, or whatever the official designation is. AS could very well be joining ST as an associate, and u
49 syncmaster : Another thought, they could still make an announcement before then and have a press event scheduled for Monday. But my guess is still on something sh
50 1337Delta764 : The SkyTeam associate program has been discontinued for a while now, and all of the former associate members are now considered full members.
51 RWA380 : I think this is more probable than most of the other guesses, but as pointed out, does QX/AS have that many extra planes to take on that kind of flyi
52 HVNandrew : Of everything else suggested in this thread, this makes the most sense for me. Is there anyway that Horizon could use the same flights contracted und
53 woodsboy : Im going to be a little selfish and hope that part of the announcement is that DL will be coming back to FAI year round with SLC and MSP service daily
54 FlyASAGuy2005 : Thanks Ben. I guess we shall wait until Monday. BTW, I think this HAS to be something big. It's only until now that i'm hearing anything about it. Al
55 bobnwa : Delta never said a word about an announcement two weeks ago. That was simply another pre announcement by A netters
56 Cessna172RG : My money is on announcing a SEA-FUK nonstop on DL using A332 metal.
57 GSPSPOT : Hmmm.... Might be onto something there!
58 avek00 : The DOJ frowned heavily upon the Continental/Northwest transaction (the Golden Share gentlemen's agreement was in fact made to avoid a suit by the DO
59 flyby519 : AS exclusive codeshare with DL, bye bye AA.
60 Stitch : Unlikely, IMO. AS' strength is the variety of code shares and Mileage Plan partners.
61 DeltaMD90 : It would have to mean DL would need to make up for AA... probably a very large LAX expansion. If I were AS I don't think I'd be keen in doing that si
62 usdcaguy : I will place my bet on an international route announcement by DL as well as some sort of expansion of codeshares that will effectively make SEA a majo
63 DeltaMD90 : Why does everyone treat this like it's the most unprecedented event in aviation history? I saw people losing their minds in those threads.
64 FlyASAguy2005 : There would have to be something significant ALSO involving AS. Remember, their CEO will also be there. If it was just a Delta/SEA thing then perhaps
65 crapper1 : Ok ill jump in the pool here. I will put my money on AS joining Skyteam and AS codesharing more routes with DL. We dont have any info until Monday so
66 USAIRWAYS321 : Something like this makes sense. I know plans are already out there for the AS-driven North Satellite expansion, but I wonder if Delta will perhaps j
67 Post contains images alitalia744 : Lots of guessing going on here...seems like some may have hit the mark, or rather closely. Can't wait to hear what the final word is next week.
68 rgreenftm : Short answer - no. POS has already laid out where everyone will end up, and while I don't recall the specifics of Delta, it definitely wasn't in C/D.
69 hiflyeras : My guesses: DL buying minority interest in AS AS joining SkyTeam DL expanding number of code-share flights with AS. AS adding DTW and SLC (the latter
70 Gunsontheroof : I'm betting on something close to this as well, but anything could happen I suppose. International expansion from SEA by DL and domestic expansion to
71 FlyASAGuy2005 : I think too it will be "Delta and Alaska Air further strengthening ties" or something along those lines. Signing some sort of MOA/etc. Something that
72 HNL-Jack : Skyteam is very unlikely. AS has proven to a master of multi relationships and would be unlikely to give that up. Perhaps taking over some domestic fl
73 AirlineReporter : Looking at the advisory, the even is happening in the S terminal. I doubt AS would be moving over since they just announced so many changes in N. Dav
74 alfa164 : If you are a betting man, you might want to put odds on: DL will start SEA-PVG in March (SEA-based crews have been quietly told this over the past two
75 C010T3 : I'm going to bet on ATI, so that a joint-venture can be formed for transpacific services.[Edited 2012-10-05 20:38:59]
76 alfa164 : That could very well be AS's role, and would definitely explain a cooperative effort in building the new terminal.
77 cokepopper : worst kept secret lol
78 Deltal1011man : nah....the FL thing sit happens. I am fairly sure we just had one of these. It has however replaced the DC9 parking threads. why? Not sure why they w
79 rgreenftm : Maybe related to this thread, maybe not, but the ticket/check-in space, next to AS in SEA is under construction. Who is moving into that space? DL?
80 slcdeltarumd11 : Alaska to fly SLC-SEA seems overdue. I know they have Delta there with lots of seats but they are packed and i see so many SEA connections on those bo
81 questions : ****BREAKING NEWS**** Richard Anderson, CEO, Delta Air Lines, will be in Seattle on Monday to announce a strategic partnership with Alaska Airlines. D
82 CONTACREW : So let me get this straight, this big announcement is about freaking mashed potatoes?
83 rgreenftm : Pretty sure that was an attempt at humor.
84 USAIRWAYS321 : I know that, but things change. If AS and DL are announcing an enhanced partnership, they may want to change that plan. It could certainly be done.
85 CONTACREW : LMAO I was about to say pretty stupid to have this big old announcement about food.
86 jetjack74 : On the DL side, this will be the SEA-PVG route rumor I previously posted 2 weeks ago. And also, SEA-NRT will bump up to 747 starting in April. On the
87 CONTACREW : That's very good news on the 747 coming back to SEA - NRT. It's been at least 9 years since a 747 has been on that route am I correct?
88 jetjack74 : Since 2004, when SEA-NRT went to a 333 and then to a 332.
89 CONTACREW : Okay so the FAs must be happy to get work the 747 out of SEA again. It would be nice to see 7 & 8 as those flights #s again.
90 Prost : 7/8 was always a -200, not a -400. The door 4 galley on the -200 is what made that flight.
91 questions : Why?
92 Prost : The social aspect of it. There was a pass through front t to back, it was very efficient for working, and when the service was done, it was a good din
93 jetjack74 : Because of how it was configured. Had a pass-thru counter space, and made serving so much easier. And yes, 7/8 were almost always a 742, sometimes a
94 Deltal1011man : but the question is why would it? In SEA, IIRC, one can get from S to the AS gates without having to reclear, Delta has been putting a good bit of mo
95 USAIRWAYS321 : I never said they would, or should, move. I was just spitballing, really. Based on the idea of a large tie-up between AS/DL, it would make some sense
96 mtnwest1979 : Then perhaps they will have nothing in common on this other than promoting larger/newer intl arrivals areas. And AS might be expanding with many new
97 Deltal1011man : Oh something i forgot to add....to be a bit of a buzz kill....DL is more limited on AS codesharing due to the new pilot contract. ie don't expect a hu
98 Post contains links Alsatian : Delta to introduce the 744 on the SEA - NRT route from JUN13 : http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/06/dl-seanrt-jun13/
99 Gunsontheroof : Very cool news for those of us here in SEA, but if the rumors of both CEOs showing up in town on Monday are true, this upgauge is only one part of a
100 Alsatian : Good news for SEA indeed but maybe a bad sign for the requested SEA - HND route that DL hope.
101 B777ER : Keyword: Codeshare. As in more codeshare flying for ASA by taking over routes previously operated by DL metal (thanks to the pilots at DL that voted f
102 B777ER : They are staying in the fleet until 2014.
103 bobnwa : As the old bard said "much ado about nothing" . You have been reading APC again.
104 Post contains images ER757 : A cool birthday present for me! Have never seen the 744 in DL livery - will definitely have the camera ready. Wow, just think what they can get for a
105 CONTACREW : Oh I knew that. In fact I was on 6626 NW73 and 6635 NW8 back on March 10th & 11th 2003.
106 GentFromAlaska : As DL has downsized CVG signficanatly, I suspect a joint press release at the CEO level might involve DL establishing a Pacific Northwest (PNW) hub/fo
107 alfa164 : $200 million it is! Maybe $200 in Seattle in Lewis and Clark's day...
108 FlyASAGuy2005 : Who told you that bit of info. There was a big fly-in very recently and the senior executives and TechOps higher ups said the sunset of the DC9s will
109 Coronado : I have to disagree with this. A domestic joint venture, similarly to a merger or an acquisition may be subject to a review by DOT and DOJ, but there
110 Post contains images xlc : ATL 29 July 2009
111 B777ER : I understand (not with DL so I dont have access myself) it's on November Crew Resources update on Deltanet - Crew Resources and Scheduling.
112 SR117 : As far as 2-3 seasons back I can't remember 2x SEA-NRT flights, I'm sure it didn't happen either in 2011 or 2012 at least. Wonder what would happen i
113 RWA380 : Nor did I say DL said a word, I said wasn't DL supposed to be making an announcement in Seattle about 2 weeks ago? referring to the thread 2 weeks ag
114 GentFromAlaska : I also have a inkling it may have something to do with the north satellite; once a United strong hold. If memory serves me DL operates out of the "B"
115 alfa164 : Just a minor correction: SEA-NRT goes 744 on June 1st
116 Prost : Delta moved to the south satellitecshortly after the NW acquisition. Occasionally some flights depart from the B concourse during the "noon balloon" o
117 alfa164 : Think "new international terminal"...
118 Prost : Oh, but I don't dare to have such grandiose dreams. You mean...a terminal that would make me proud to fly in to My hometown? Say it ain't so...
119 alfa164 : $200 million from DL is what we hear.
120 Prost : Well, that would indicate a major overhaul of the South Satellite, not a new terminal. The remodel of the North Satellite for AS is going to cost $23
121 alfa164 : Probably right... but $200 million is only DL's contribution. Just as an aside, I wonder what this means for SLC's future for international flights.
122 usxguy : Too bad its not Alaska & Delta putting in a joint bid on American Airlines
123 HPRamper : Or they could REALLY mix things up and put in a bid on US.
124 Gunsontheroof : DL hasn't operated out of B (on a regular basis, anyway) in years. They were at the end of A up until the finalization of the NW merger and are now (
125 xlc : Don't forget the new rooftop Sky Club that opened last August.
126 yellowtail : I got the media advisory in my email yesterday....seems legit to me.
127 DeltaMD90 : But DL is already in bed with AS @ SEA...
128 pqdtw : Richard Anderson was in Seattle a few times in early summer... I ran into him once on the elevator going up to our offices on the mezzanine. I asked h
129 mtnwest1979 : As for DL 744; There is one at S8 right now (10/7, 5:18p PDT). Looks nice in the sunshine.
130 United1 : [quote=mtnwest1979,reply=129]As for DL 744; There is one at S8 right now (10/7, 5:18p PDT). Looks nice in the sunshine.[/quo The DL flight from ATL-NR
131 rgreenftm : Something else I keep thinking about is that Brad Tilden has only been the CEO for a couple months now. The timing of this, and the probability that w
132 Deltal1011man : ok....still....a Domestic JV/ATI will happen right after I buy Delta with my own money. nothing. SLC will never have a ton of international flights.
133 DeltaMD90 : I'm not sure DL would want their own metal domestically on SEA routes. Legacies tend to do better flying international routes and the domestic network
134 Gunsontheroof : Good points all-around. I'd be inclined to entertain the prospect of DL expanding internationally at SEA while cutting back domestically and letting
135 DeltaMD90 : Oh, I didn't mean the hub-SEA flights. In many codeshares the 2 carriers will both operate hub to hub flights... without a JV (which doesn't seem lik
136 Stitch : I am sure there will be differences, however I do not see a major change like AS pursuing a merger or formally entering an alliance (not that you wer
137 hiflyeras : Perhaps AS is moving from EWR to JFK or keeping EWR and adding JFK. I think SLC and DTW are likely as well.
138 DeltaMD90 : Although this is not out of the realm of possibility (in fact, it's quite likely) would it call for having both CEOs in SEA? I think it'll be big. No
139 ANA787 : In response to your question not relating to the forthcoming announcement, with DL and AS strengthening ties I could see at PDX.... For DL in PDX, I
140 Prost : Why would they have a press announcement in Seattle to announce new Portland service?
141 RWA380 : They wouldn't most likely, but Seattle is AS's operational HQ. I expect something along the lines of a stronger tie in together and a DL build up in
142 Gunsontheroof : Yes, but I doubt you'll be seeing much new from DL down there any time soon, especially if a big long-haul buildup at SEA is what's in the works. It'
143 Post contains images RWA380 : Yes that is a nice thought, as you said, time will tell, I hope your right.......
144 dbo861 : This helps DL's 744 utilization. It looks like the aircraft will sit on the ground in SEA for 7.5 hours before the next departure to NRT. I wonder if
145 Post contains links milesrich : Alaska is a "legacy" carrier, the only one that has filed for Chapter 11. While their routes were originally limited to SEA and PDX to the 49th State
146 BoeingGuy : I assume you mean has NOT filed for Chapter 11. Yes, AS was and still is sort of a "wild" independent outfit.
147 questions : Where would the aircraft come from??
148 Post contains images rgreenftm : So I don't actually believe this is the case, but there was an order announced this last week from Boeing for 26 737Max aircraft...Airline was uniden
149 questions : Hhmmm... If DL expands their relationship with KE... then they could dismantle their NRT hub... and re-allocate aircraft to SEA-Asia flying... and use
150 B777ER : Draw down in point to point flying in Europe. DL will have some extra 763ER's to put on the Pacific flying.
151 Lono : Ok I think DL/AS will announce a joint hubs in SEA/SLC/MSP DL will focus on international lift and AS will focus on domestic lift. Along with more AS
152 Gunsontheroof : Was thinking about that myself. I have no idea, but it would certainly be at another station's expense... That's an interesting thought...I hadn't co
153 factsonly : Perhaps interesting to note that AS and DL already codeshare on the TransAtlantic from SEA, DTW and ATL: These are examples of Trans-Atlantic codeshar
154 MSYtristar : Would like to see some new p2p routes out of SEA on DL metal to beef up the overall operation there and to create more feed for INTL flying. Routes li
155 GSPSPOT : This is killing me!! I'm dying to find out what it actually ends up being!!
156 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : An acquaintance who works at SEATAC seems to think the announcement directly involves SEA and MSP. I found nothing significant occurring in the PNW ot
157 dl747400 : That's not going to help DL or AS anytime soon, and they certainly would not be announcing any related routes 5 YEARS in advance. Not saying that AS
158 hiflyeras : They're keeping this very tight on International Blvd here in SEA! Far as I can tell only VP level and above know the truth....mid-level managers are
159 threeifbyair : DTW or SLC maybe, but switching EWR to JFK is a bad idea IMO. Three other airlines already fly SEA-JFK (DL, AA, B6), two of which are AS partners (fo
160 PlanesNTrains : When you go to the link that the OP provided, one of the comments was this one, which seems perhaps the most plausible scenario: "Alaska will go into
161 Stitch : AS Mileage Plan's core strength is the ability to earn and burn with so many other carriers, plus they receive elite member benefits on carriers like
162 B6WNQX : Could this also be something with QX ordering more Q400's and flying them for DL out of their hubs? This would be a product enhancement for DL Connect
163 ANA787 : So long UA SEA-NRT!
164 DeltaMD90 : I've seen a few things popping up: Where will aircraft come from? Not sure on AS' end, but unless this is a HUGE operation springing up overnight, DL
165 panamair : These will include on the Delta side at least: - 744 between SEA and NRT, which will provide flat-bed seats in J (currently angled-flat with the A333
166 GentFromAlaska : That makes the most sense. With that said in my mind ANC would be a better choice for an international gateway to Asia as many of the flights fly the
167 DeltaMD90 : SEA is already a much larger operation than ANC, and being at the corner of the US, the diversion to SEA vs ANC isn't that big SEA is not near SLC, a
168 max999 : On top of all the speculation, I'm just going to throw a wild card out here as a guess - DL 757 service between ANC and NRT with AS codeshare.
169 Prost : I know one season NW had DC-10 service between ANC-NRT in the summer. The Japanese customers loved the service, a lot of tour groups and even some out
170 yeelep : I would think this would confirm there is no chance of a merger. Nobody in their right mind would invite potentially pissed off employees to the big
171 Prost : Possible some of DL 737-900ERs coming next year going to AS to help them ramp things up?
172 yeelep : How about the demolition and relocation to the north end of the airport of the AS Maintenance Hangars. This would allow for the expansion of the Sout
173 SeaMeFly : DL & AS to bid for HA ! . ;p
174 tlhgator : Looks like DL is sending a 747 to SEA tonight as a ferry for a "media event" ship 6302 should be leaving ATL about 6pm local.
175 DeltaMD90 : Actually, as silly as that sounds, it is pretty interesting. DL is "rumored" to want to buy HA, everyone says AS and HA should merge for some reason,
176 PlanesNTrains : Thanks Panamair. So I guest the question is what role Alaska will play in the announcement? I get the importance of the feed, but is the CEO of AS goi
177 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Nothing will happen to SLC or MSP. Even if Delta were to buy AS, Nothing would happen to them. Both deal with traffic flows that can't be replaced by
178 Post contains images ASFlyer : Delta 9931 due to arrive SEA at 1955. Spotters in SEA, get your cameras out.
179 hiflyeras : My thought exactly! All these employees standing there..cameras rolling...as they drop some bombshell! It has to be something that is going to make t
180 ASFlyer : I love the thought of them announcing something completely heinous, like a merger or something, and everybody cursing and groaning and stomping away,
181 Deltal1011man : even better would be if they have all these people and such only to announce DL is upgrading SEA-NRT to a 744 and AS will codeshare on it.
182 Lono : "My thought exactly! All these employees standing there..cameras rolling...as they drop some bombshell! It has to be something that is going to make t
183 Deltal1011man : Delta isn't leaving Alaska.
184 DeltaMD90 : Why would they do that? Point to a codeshare agreement where a carrier completely removes all flying to a partner carrier's hub city including flight
185 Lono : DeltaMD90 I see DL doing this because their winter flights are minimal and they don't have many employees here that would be impacted. They have alrea
186 CompensateMe : Only a single flight between JFK & SEA will offer B/E equipment. And SEA is already a Pacific gateway - I expect DL to strategically add flights,
187 DeltAirlines : Looking at the July 1 2013 schedule, it's 4x 757-200 (in a BusinessElite configuration) plus one 767-300ER in a 36J configuration.
188 CompensateMe : Interesting, the seat maps reflect the 75E although the corresponding amenity icons do not.
189 Prost : Maybe they will after tomorrow.
190 Gunsontheroof : You're missing the point insofar as an arrangement where AS domestic feeds DL Trans-Pac goes. If DL has a sizeable Trans-Pac operation at SEA with AS
191 EA CO AS : (mods, please delete)[Edited 2012-10-08 00:41:43]
192 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : I was coming back to edit, but you caught me. Ouch!
193 Alsatian : So, 7 more post untill the announcement and you will be totaly right !
194 bobnwa : A Delta pilot has predicted on the airline pilots forum that AS and DL will jointly announce the purchase of a salmon farm and a Starbucks franchise t
195 CompensateMe : Since Starbucks also owns Seattle's Second Best, the coffee currently served by DL, I ponder if they're making this move in attempt to transition tow
196 UA767400 : What time is the announcement expected?
197 Coronado : After thinking about it I think both airlines will announce the construction of a new joint Gateway terminal at SEA, sort of on the scale of the McNam
198 jetjack74 : Putting on a show is what DL is very good at, even for the small stuff. Working here, you find that out very quickly. I can almost guarantee that the
199 jetjack74 : 10am, just in time for my flight down to ATL
200 CompensateMe : SEA is too geographically challenged to ever support such an operation. And local traffic to/from Asia is only slightly larger than that of DTW -- in
201 spiritair97 : As per the OAG changes thread, it looks like DL is actually increasing the frequency on the MSP-ANC route.[Edited 2012-10-08 07:13:21]
202 UA767400 : 10AM PT or CT or MT of ET?
203 ERJ170 : Hahahahahahaha! Medea giving the on board announcements! That would be classic! "Now shiut the hell up and get dem kids in the safety belt. Don't tur
204 syncmaster : I would assume Pacific.
205 TeamInTheSky : Hi All, While I envision that it will not be that monumental of an announcement, looking forward to hearing about it. In regards to timing, AirlineRep
206 panamair : Agreed, and I don't think DL and AS have tried to make it anything bigger than that. The media advisory clearly states "new service and product enhan
207 Tomassjc : Major system failure currently at AS system wide affecting check in, Res and boarding. A cut in a fiber optics connection with Sprint. It could be hou
208 Stitch : They spent time and money to assemble the staff and press, so I do not see them canceling it. Due to a failure of one of their service providers (whi
209 bobnwa : Neither AS or DL have said this is going to a "big" announcement. We are now up to 207 messages predicting all sorts of scenarios. Isn't our imaginati
210 stlgph : The announcement came to me via my work email. Alaska/Delta proposing Seattle - Shanghai and Henada. Delta doing 747-400 to Narita. Additional JFK to
211 Post contains links Coronado : Here is the press release: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1732
212 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : Yawn... http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1732 SEA-PVG and SEA-HND (assuming they get it)
213 PIEAvantiP180 : Well it's 0930 Pacific time, do we have anybody in the audience in SEA to tell us what all this is about.
214 runway23 : I wonder if their announcement won't annoy the DOT and lead to them digging their grave for that application.
215 Prost : Is there a timeline for the DOT to announce the HND route?
216 rwsea : Well, the big release is here. Exciting to see PVG finally announced. I think this route will do well for them, both with O&D and connecting pax.
217 klkla : Just the opposite. This was obviously intended to encourage the DOT to look at their request in a more positive light. It shows they are committed to
218 FlyASAGuy2005 : Airlines do it all the time and doesn't mean that they will screw anything up. All they have to do is add the "pending government approval" tag.
219 runway23 : I'm not so sure. If I were the DOT I would see it as DL trying to force my hand. The 747 on SEA-NRT reminds me of when DL applied for DTW/LAX-HND wit
220 PHX787 : At this point, how wouldn't they get it?
221 GentFromAlaska : So as it relates to AS a international code share. A big bru-hah-hah about nothing. The new DL new flights to Japan are nothing more than a response
222 panamair : The one interesting question is where they are going to get the 75Es from to fund the expanded JFK-SEA flying. They only have 18 of them and around 11
223 United1 : UA, AA and HA all have competing bids for the slots....there is no guarantee that DL will receive the rights.
224 wedgetail737 : ANA has been flying SEA-NRT since July using a 777-300ER. However, ANA introduced the 787-8 on the SEA-NRT route starting 10/1. Adding PVG and HND wo
225 Coronado : The press release talks about both 757 and 767 doing the JFK run?! From the press release: Delta's upgraded Seattle-New York service will be operated
226 Prost : At least for the summer, 4 75Es and 1 767
227 redzeppelin : Most likely scenario is that they cut some of the TATL 75E routes. Also possible that they could reduce frequencies to LAX and SFO and/or upgauge tho
228 commavia : Smart moves by Delta, but I agree certainly doesn't portend a merger or other "strategic" link-up (the word choice of Delta's P.R. machine notwithstan
229 rwsea : If you look at the schedules, the 763 is the one that departs SEA at 7am and returns from JFK around 5pm. I'd guess that this is going to be a reposi
230 rwy04lga : So say you! You're not an airline. It's big news to SEA and AS/DL.
231 runway23 : It seems like there will come a point where DL just needs to add a few select flights to ICN and they can essentially connect passengers on KE instea
232 ANA787 : Why would China Eastern and China Southern return if DL will be covering this route? With DL already on the route theoretically this would hinder any
233 DeltaMD90 : What, is the DOT run by a bunch of teenagers? If they get "annoyed?" Really? If the DOT decides to give it to the many other airlines wanting it
234 bobnwa : That only happens in fiction books, not in real life The DOT is not influenced by such things unless they are playing poker.
235 dbo861 : There must not be as big of a demand for 75Es over the Atlantic. They have to send them somewhere.
236 PHX787 : Current HND-USA routes as per Wiki, maybe based off this we can guess and see if DL will get the route: NH (Air Japan) HND-HNL NH HND-LAX AA HND-JFK
237 wedgetail737 : Why would OZ cut SEA-ICN. OZ has a more convenient schedule than KE, since OZ operates daily. Both have co-existed at SEA for years. I don't understa
238 GentFromAlaska : I think not. SEA is well serve to/from Japan. its another fine example of putting the cart before the horse. Really! two CEO announcing something tha
239 DeltaMD90 : There is a lot more that goes into route awards than just that. Sometimes, a market is big enough to warrant 2 flights vs a flight to a unique destin
240 modesto2 : I beg to differ. Details aside, this announcement demonstrates DL's increased focus and commitment to SEA as a substantial operation. The significanc
241 wedgetail737 : From AS point-of-view, it's probably not a big deal. But from DL's and the Port's point-of-view, it's a big deal. I agree with Modesto2. The one poin
242 rwsea : That would actually be a downgauge compared to the A333... 298 seats vs. 273 on the 772 (although the 772 has more premium seats).
243 PlanesNTrains : So Alaska is basically involved today to make Delta look better/stronger in the Seattle marketplace. No other real reason to include them from what I
244 Post contains images ANA787 : The overall huge capacity increase in SEA-Asia puts existing SEA-Asia service in jeopardy. How is BR doing? Wouldn't be surprised to see one or two A
245 slcdeltarumd11 : This clearly is not entertaining to a.net but I think it was a very good move for Delta. They got some free publicity and media time and alot of expos
246 SonomaFlyer : AS can funnel passengers into these new services from across the Pacific Northwest. DL can use the AS network to feed connecting passengers back the
247 STT757 : I think if UA is committed to staying in the SEA-NRT market they should switch the aircraft to the 787. It fits their strategy of deploying their new
248 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : SonomaFlyer, I think you are saying the same thing I am, in that Alaska is indeed an important feed partner to DL in SEA. in other words, nothing new
249 syncmaster : Alaska is gaining the expansion of it's existing ability to sell seats on int'l service operated by Delta, an airline that offers reciprocal benefits
250 GSPSPOT : That would be SO GREAT!! Can't find the exact quote, but one of my favorites is (someone else): "I know tae kwon do." Madea: And I know whup yo' *ss!
251 LAXintl : DOT previously has said they do not view domestic code-shares as benefit in route cases. The problem is for instance in this case, DL has no control
252 mayor : Well, here's what it says, straight from the news release..... "The two carriers review connecting flight schedules and make timing adjustments to sh
253 LAXintl : Coordinating connections that is not an issue. But DL has no power over how AS schedules its flight(s), prices them or what capacity it operates. Coor
254 BoeingGuy : It also indicates to me that AS is committed to staying independent, and maintain their business model of also code-sharing with AA and other OW memb
255 wedgetail737 : As much as DL is touting their 744 service to NRT, I really kind of wonder how long the 744 will really last and not be taken back down to A333 or A3
256 Prost : I can only speak anecdotally, but BE on SEA-NRT-SEA have been difficult seats to get in the busy summer months, and there may be demand that can be m
257 CompensateMe : Discounted tickets & award tickets, maybe, but I seriously doubt anyone's ever had a hard time purchasing a full-fare BE ticket on this route. Wh
258 mayor : But, why would AS do that? Even if there's not a "formal" agreement, what benefit could there be for them to work against DL, either on purpose or in
259 Prost : Having worked this flight and speaking to customers in the Economy Comfort Cabin who told me they were unable to purchase a BE seat on short notice,
260 Post contains images CompensateMe : They're competitors and each seeking to maximize profitability. With full-fare business selling in excess of $15,000 on this route, I seriously doubt
261 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : This was a follow up post that I must not have clicked post on earlier: "Again, I get the benefit, and the partnership, but clearly Alaska 's presence
262 TVNWZ : Depending on when you want to go, yes it can be impossible to get. But, a lot of the time, not so much.
263 LAXintl : The carriers hold no immunity, so they cannot coordinate things like pricing. As an example Alaska is not going to give away capacity or seats to Del
264 CompensateMe : I don't disagree that there will be times in which the cabin is sold out. But if there was a market of persons who were willing to pay DL's pricing f
265 sxf24 : There are no BE seats for sale tomorrow on SEA-NRT.
266 CompensateMe : Because DL's clearing upgrades. If there was a market for paid, last-minute BE seats, there would be.
267 mayor : I get all that, but I still maintain that neither AA or DL is going to do anything that might jeopardize any "cooperation" that they might do. I know
268 asqx : Delta doesn't do complimentary upgrades SEA-NRT, or on any other trans-oceanic route, only US (excluding Hawaii), Canda, Bermuda, Mexico and some Cen
269 usdcaguy : There are some pretty big unknowns in this announcement; except for the new SkyClub, there is nothing guaranteed here. All is subject to change, and m
270 MSPNWA : This is a case of what goes around comes around. An NW 747 is back on SEA-NRT, just without the red tail. But that's a lot of capacity now to Japan an
271 rwy04lga : I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think DL's international flights are not upgradeable....you want the BE seat?......show them the money. If they we
272 CompensateMe : I didn't imply DL offered complimentary upgrades. But people possessing the means to upgrade do purchase upgradeable fares, and once inventory is dep
273 RWA380 : That is what happens here on A.net, some find it a harmless way to play armchair CEO, it's not a bad thing, at least it provokes thought and airline
274 rwy04lga : Well, that set me straight, didn't it.? Care to expound?
275 Post contains images CompensateMe : So DL/AS issued media advisories, primarily to the media in Seattle, wild speculation on a.net occurs (merger, huge SEA hub, new SEA airport, etc.) a
276 wedgetail737 : I wonder if NH will bring the 77W back for the summer next year, aligning the competition with DL.
277 Prost : I think NH has bigger fish to fry than getting into a squabble on SEA-NRT.
278 Post contains images mayor : Subject to re-phrasing, you played yourselves...... Exactly
279 crj900lr : We need to start another link on this....278 posts is alot to look through.
280 questions : This had little to do with the Seattle Market or AS and DL employees... or that silly Sky Club... or the Queen of the Skies 747... or BusinessElite U
281 RWA380 : It was much more fanfare then substance, surely you can see that. I was stating myself tongue in cheek, not so damning.
282 DeltaMD90 : All you need to know is DL is trying to start SEA-PVG and SEA-HND... the rest of the thread is littered with wild speculation, which I am guilty myse
283 mayor : It is only so because much of the false "substance" was from speculation on this forum. If we hadn't heard about this, last week, we wouldn't have wo
284 Prost : The ticket counter and lobby are still being remodeled, but that was announced months ago.
285 wedgetail737 : I think NH is already in a squabble with DL and some extent UA. I still think the casualty will be UA.
286 LAXintl : I think people forget NH and UA are in a metal neutral JV on Pacific Japan flights. A NH flight = UA flight, and UA flight = NH flight for cost and r
287 context : Oye! I'm really hoping that if all this goes through (which I hope it does) the Port Of Seattle fast-track their S Terminal expansion / renovation pla
288 SANFan : This is some nice news for SEA , and for DL of course, and from my point of view, I'm now hopeful that AS can use at least some of their new a/c and o
289 Deltal1011man : I guess you were wrong thus you shouldn't be talked to? anyways, i don't thin they get unlimited free upgrades like they do for domestic. I do believ
290 DeltAirlines : Upgrades on long-haul BusinessElite flights require the purchase of a Y/B/M fare (which are often 3-4x the price of the lowest coach at a minimum), p
291 jetjack74 : Jeez, did Delta pee in your cheerios or something? I mean you really seem to hate Delta, don't you?
292 USAIRWAYS321 : The usual announcement isn't attended by CEOs of two airlines.
293 mayor : His post looked pretty pro-DL to me or at least neutral. Then again, we might not have known about their attendance until it actually happened. We on
294 CompensateMe : What I have written that supports that statement?
295 ryanrap1 : So what was the announcement?
296 BoeingGuy : Take a look at the thread.
297 jetjack74 : I apologise. I misread the subject matter and the message of your posts. Sorry about that.
298 onlywaytofly : As a result of the upgauge of SEA - NRT to 747-400 will we see NRT - BKK or NRT - PVG (or some other inter-port flight)subsequently upgauged as well?
299 SeaMeFly : DOT just approved DL application for PVG....
300 jfk69 : As a DL gold who does most my travel on JFK-SEA should I be pissed that they added Business Elite on this route? End of complimentary upgrades correct
301 alfa164 : No reason to be pissed; domestic BE upgrades work exactly the same as domestic F upgrades.
302 questions : No. Just fewer seats on the 757.
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