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Spirit Opening DFW Crew Base Dec 1st 2012  
User currently offlineflyboynk From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 71 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

Spirit today announced internally that Dec 1st, 2012 they will open up a DFW crew base ( FA and Pilots)

The DFW base will be built up using transfers from other bases ( FLL, DTW, LAS, ACY) and local hiring in the
DFW, surrounding Texas cities and Midwest areas.

Spirit plans to fly to 26 or more destinations nonstop from DFW as of June 2013 including domestic and Int'l...


Flyboynk
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3305 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

It's impressive how quickly they've grown at DFW since opening the station on May 5th, 2011.

I hope they transition to organic (rather than outsourced) customer and ramp service agents as the operation continues to grow.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4884 times:
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Spirit plans to fly to 26 or more destinations nonstop from DFW as of June 2013 including domestic and Int'l...

Could it include some secondary destinations similar to the way Allegiant operates? Like DFW-SBN, DFW-GRR, DFW-RFD ?


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 2):
Spirit plans to fly to 26 or more destinations nonstop from DFW as of June 2013 including domestic and Int'l...

Could it include some secondary destinations similar to the way Allegiant operates? Like DFW-SBN, DFW-GRR, DFW-RFD ?

I would love to see DFW-CID! Wonder if they could do something similar at DFW like F9 does at DEN to secondary markets. There's a lot of possibilities out there...will be interesting to see what happens with NK at DFW.


User currently offline4engines4lnghll From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

26 routes and a couple of gates at terminal E..... how is this suppose to play out?


4engines4lnghll
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4596 times:
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The old E satellite terminal has a bunch of jetways installed and is going to be reactivated while they remodel terminal E. I can see Spirit using it when the remodel is finished.

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 5):
The old E satellite terminal has a bunch of jetways installed and is going to be reactivated while they remodel terminal E. I can see Spirit using it when the remodel is finished.

I could see this too, would be a nice number of gates to run a small hub out of


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

In fact, according to this article, the E satelittle is re-opening for good and they don't plan to shut it off once remodeling is complete:
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...lite-as-it-remodels-terminal-e.ece


User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

Quoting 4engines4lnghll (Reply 4):
26 routes and a couple of gates at terminal E..... how is this suppose to play out?

No destination has more than two daily flights and most are just one flight a day. I believe NK will use no more than four gates to run the announced schedule.


User currently offlinedtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4374 times:
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I wonder if there is another announcement coming with this one. 5 pilot bases is a lot for the size that they currently are. Acy and Dtw are such small operations compared to the rest of their bases I wonder if one of them will close soon. I think acy would go before Dtw because of size but if they ever wanted to open up ord the could never have ord and Dtw

User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4320 times:

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 8):
No destination has more than two daily flights and most are just one flight a day. I believe NK will use no more than four gates to run the announced schedule.

I was just going to say this, it's not like NK is running a 4-6 flts a day on many routes. I mean DFW-PHL starts this spring I believe with 5x weekly and then a whopping 1 daily.


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Does anyone see an ORD crew base in Spirit's future?

User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

There are internal rumors that the company may plan to wind down either the DTW or ACY crew bases as DFW is built up. The company hasn't announced how they are going to move forward with the DFW implementation. Long term, I believe NK would prefer to have bases in ORD, DFW, FLL and LAS as they transition to a larger carrier. ACY and DTW's relevance seems to be diminishing.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3121 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 8):

No destination has more than two daily flights and most are just one flight a day. I believe NK will use no more than four gates to run the announced schedule.

Yes the route map is impressive for a carrier NK's size, but when you see most destinations are 1x daily, with a few exceptions, it's not so much. That being said even at 11pm at night both NK's E gates were being used when we flew back from DFW to PDX last month, the other flight going to Toluca.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 9):
5 pilot bases is a lot for the size that they currently are.

If you think in terms of a traditional hub and spoke airline, yes. But NK has embraced the Ryanair model. Ryanair has dozens of crew bases. This allows the crews to be home nightly, avoiding a lot of layover costs. I bet you'll see more, not less going forward.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Seems like a good move for spirit. They clearly want to expand more in DFW. AA is a weak animal right now who is not fighting them and I am sure its angry employees telling relatives and friends how much they hate AA is helping spirit to get new people to try them when they see a cheap non-stop pull up online. Seems like a great time to make a major push into a fortress hub people thought was unpenetrable. Clearly they are making DFW work acceptably well. I think spirit saw southwest in Denver and is trying the same very fast expansion strategy.

Quoting flyboynk (Thread starter):
Spirit plans to fly to 26 or more destinations nonstop from DFW as of June 2013 including domestic and Int'l...

Clearly AA will care about this average and more importantly last minute non-stops will see price decreases. I think AA knows they cant do anything to stop it without loosing a ton so they have to sit there and watch the 757 sale happen.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11426 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
AA is a weak animal right now who is not fighting them

I doubt AA would be doing much of anything in response to Spirit's growth at DFW even if it were in a far stronger position, since I suspect Spirit's growth at DFW has little direct impact on AA. The two are catering to two vastly different markets. Spirit is attracting the most ultra-price-conscious, non-regular traveler willing to accept suboptimal schedules and/or frequencies, etc. I suspect Spirit is using low fares to stimulate demand in markets rather than taking much of any traffic away from AA (and besides, AA was likely set to reduce capacity somewhat and stop catering to some of this very same lower-yielding traffic anyway).

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
I am sure its angry employees telling relatives and friends how much they hate AA is helping spirit to get new people to try them when they see a cheap non-stop pull up online.

Doubtful. Most people in the Metroplex fly AA or Southwest not because they know somebody who is either happy or unhappy to works for either airline (although just about everybody in the Metroplex does know somebody who works for either or both) but because of convenience - AA and Southwest go to where most people want to go, often many times per day. That isn't going to change just because some AA employees are disgruntled. And besides - AA employees being disgruntled is nothing new - if that alone was going to supposedly drive traffic to other carriers, it would have done so long ago.

Now, it certainly is true that Spirit does stimulate and attract a certain level of demand from people who see their ultra-low base fares (before all the extra fees and add-ons many people end up getting charged), but again, many of those people weren't flying AA already anyway.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
Seems like a great time to make a major push into a fortress hub people thought was unpenetrable.

I still do think it's relatively impenetrable, at least to Spirit. To be clear - I'm not saying AA as an airline is invincible, or that AA's hub at DFW specifically is invincible, but that DFW as a hub - for whatever airline has it (and that happens to be AA) is likely to be a fairly tough nut to crack for a competitor, since the Metroplex effectively already has to major, hub airlines.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
Clearly AA will care about this average and more importantly last minute non-stops will see price decreases.

Unlikely. Spirit has been growing at DFW for the last 18 months, and it doesn't appear to have appreciably altered fares. Again - the customer Spirit is going after is a customer that AA was less interested in catering to, anyway.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
I think AA knows they cant do anything to stop it without loosing a ton so they have to sit there and watch the 757 sale happen.

Well again, AA would have sat there and "watched" this silly fare sale happen either way. What would you expect AA to do? AA is certainly not going to drop all their fares at DFW by 20% over an airline that has 1 daily flight to 20 destinations - the days of airlines stupidly pricing that way are long gone. It would be different if it were Delta coming in and adding 20 well-timed daily flights to some of AA's strategically critical, high-yielding O&D markets (LAX, LGA, DCA, MIA, SFO, etc.) - but an airline that caters to such a different customer set than AA isn't really worth getting all worked up about.

I believe that AA would be (non)responding the same way no matter if it were bankrupt or not.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
I believe that AA would be (non)responding the same way no matter if it were bankrupt or not.

Its good to see some people living in total denial    . Not to attack you but let me guess huge AA fan who wants to believe all is fine and dandy over at AA?   You know you opened this thread to defend AA when someone went there and ill admit i did throw out some tasty bate   

You really think AA last minute fares wont be affected when spirit has fares of let say $220 last minute to the same destination non-stop? Of course AA will sell less $850 tickets its inevitable. The spirit effect hasn't happened yet its too soon and spirit has not grown nearly to the size i think the want. Some businesses travel programs will force their employees to take a fare of that difference or say why they are paying so much of a higher fare and i want the miles is not acceptable.

AA flys alot of DFW flyers they are not all high yielding business travellers this will effect them and fares. Sure it clear wont effect all of AAs travellers but it will effect some and clearly AA cant like it. If they were not in bankrupcy they would not have let them roll into DFW so easily AA would not be allowed to do some big money loosing moving in its bankrupt position


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11426 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
living in total denial

I am not living in any denial at all.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
Not to attack you but let me guess huge AA fan who wants to believe all is fine and dandy over at AA?

"Not to attack you..." That's funny.

Nobody is suggesting that "all is fine and dandy" at AA.

And, as I clearly stated, the comments I'm making are really more about the DFW market than about AA specifically. I think the same would go for whatever airline was hubbing at DFW - it just so happens that airline is AA. I would be saying the exact same thing if Spirit was opening a large station with 1x flight per day to 20 different places out of ATL up against Delta - same pattern, same relatively minor impact on the hub airline, some general non-response from said hub airline.

If you disagree, or want to make this about me and my "denial," then fine. Whatever.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
You really think AA last minute fares wont be affected when spirit has fares of let say $220 last minute to the same destination non-stop? Of course AA will sell less $850 tickets its inevitable.

Yes. I really think that. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Will Spirit affect AA pricing in some markets, some times? Sure. Nobody is debating that. But I think the impact will be quite minimal, for the reasons I already stated.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
The spirit effect hasn't happened yet its too soon and spirit has not grown nearly to the size i think the want.

I agree Spirit is probably still interested in growing further at DFW, but either way, from what I've seen the "Spirit effect" has far more of an impact on stimulating ultra-price-conscious demand, rather than eroding much of the demand already present in the market.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
Some businesses travel programs will force their employees to take a fare of that difference or say why they are paying so much of a higher fare and i want the miles is not acceptable.

Of all the impact Spirit may or may not ultimately have at DFW in general, or against AA specifically, this will be the absolutely least of it. No - I simply think you are wrong if you're suggesting that much business travel at all will shift to Spirit. Very few companies will have any form of agreements with Spirit, its limited network and schedule will diminish its value to business travelers, and its pricing will simply not be acceptable to many corporate travelers for whom flexibility is often more valuable than just the base fare. Again - I'm not debating that Spirit may peal off some AA customers - including perhaps even some business travel - but the business travel Spirit is able to steal away from AA will be very, very minimal.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
AA flys alot of DFW flyers they are not all high yielding business travellers this will effect them and fares. Sure it clear wont effect all of AAs travellers but it will effect some and clearly AA cant like it.

Well obviously. Of course AA would prefer zero competition and a complete monopoly. That goes for any business. But again - as competitive threats go - Spirit is a minimal one, in my view, since it caters to a market that overlaps relatively very little with the market AA focuses on.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
If they were not in bankrupcy they would not have let them roll into DFW so easily AA

Sure they would.

[Edited 2012-10-06 15:36:12]

User currently offlinetxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 3):
I would love to see DFW-CID! Wonder if they could do something similar at DFW like F9 does at DEN to secondary markets. There's a lot of possibilities out there...will be interesting to see what happens with NK at DFW.

Unless the major corporate client on this route changes it's policy, I don't see this as viable on a daily basis.


User currently offlinedtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3028 times:
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The thing about the Ryan air model is that take dtw for example. Even in its peak travel season there are only 17-20 flights per day departing. There are also no more cities I can think of that nk could serve out of Dtw. There are more flights per day out of ord and ord is a destination itself so long term I think spirit would have to open an ord base.

[Edited 2012-10-06 19:26:07]

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Quoting txjim (Reply 19):
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 3):I would love to see DFW-CID! Wonder if they could do something similar at DFW like F9 does at DEN to secondary markets. There's a lot of possibilities out there...will be interesting to see what happens with NK at DFW.
Quoting txjim (Reply 19):

Unless the major corporate client on this route changes it's policy, I don't see this as viable on a daily basis.

i was thinking more along the lines if they turn DFW into a connecting hub along the lines of what Frontier has in DEN. CID has both UA/F9 on CID-DEN....if NK develops into a connecting hub for DFW I was wondering if they would possibly go into smaller/underserved markets that SWA ignores. Many cities had DL/FL to ATL and now F9/UA to DEN. If we see NK grow perhaps we could see some cities with AA/NK to DFW.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3305 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
You really think AA last minute fares wont be affected when spirit has fares of let say $220 last minute to the same destination non-stop? Of course AA will sell less $850 tickets its inevitable. The spirit effect hasn't happened yet its too soon and spirit has not grown nearly to the size i think the want. Some businesses travel programs will force their employees to take a fare of that difference or say why they are paying so much of a higher fare and i want the miles is not acceptable.
commavia is exactly right, and I say that as a former employee.

An airline of Spirit's relatively small size would be suicidal to go head-to-head against any established legacy, so instead they poach from Greyhound.

The Southwest effect and the Spirit effect are two different things. Southwest resulted in lower fares for everybody, while Spirit charges seemingly unsustainable fares for people (like me) who would either fly Spriit or just not fly at all. If it's not a $40-$80 roundtrip airfare, I don't go.

I say "seemingly unsustainable" because the fares end up being roughly equivalent once you factor in optional services that most passengers tend to use, which is why I doubt that business travel departments would force employees to switch considering that the savings would be marginal at best.

Spirit is pursuing an entirely different segment of the market and they can happily coexist with other airlines like American.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

To start lets all say i am saying my opinion and you are saying yours none of us know and ill admit that. We dont really know what exactly spirit will do yet how large and its a new scenario. Spirit has never been so bold and aggressive moving into a legacy fortress hub. I just think this one is different their objective that is but maybe im wrong but we dont know. I think spirit will have the southwest effect because of how large i think they want to go here its not gonna be an ACY spirit of years back.

I think i have a much better understanding of how corporate travel works then you both do. First of all its not as simple as spirit verses AA on price. US airways in particular will see what fares are and lower connections to get last minute fares they love to montior fares. Spirits fares will effect US who then delta will lower then AA is forced to lower fares its a matching that you dont need to do in DFW before spirit rolled into town. Its a domino effect spirit will lower fares if they add as many routes as they say.

Most companies have gotten much more aggressive on pricing and watching employees. I work for a company that still lets us fly business on JFK-LAX/SFO on united which is RARE nowdays so very far from cheap and they have gotten much tougher. A few years ago i purchased a EWR-CHS N/S for like 800 dollars and like everytime you book a fare significantly more than the lowest at the same times it has a window pop open stating why you booked that and a reason, i want the miles or im an elite is not acceptable. They are being much more proactive now and reading those. American Express called my travel department who then told them to switch me to a connection in CLT on USairways at the same times which was a few hundred less. I also had a co-worker who booked EWR-MYR N/S on united for a high price and American Express Travel again called our company who switched him to spirit N/S out of LGA which was alot cheaper. Those are rare cases i travel alot and if its somwhat close they dont care but if AA wants to charge $900 last minute N/S and spirit and everyone is matching connections at $350 you are going to have people being blocked. If AA doesnt lower fares they will loose out on some DFW o&d to spirit and other airlines its as simple as that and its gonna be more to the USairways or deltas that price match with a connection. I admit DFW is proabably a gold mine right now for AA but that is exactly why spirit wants in there not to stimulate demand that is rediculous. They dont want in DFW because greyhound does so well there.

Show me a study saying spirit is stealing from greyhound not airlines i dont believe it. Its people on kayak who see the lowest fare and book many of whom would book AA. Allegiant is an ariline that stimulates demand not spirit, spirit shows up on all the booking sites and steals that is why they want these high volume routes. I have certainly booked spirit before last minute all the times i flew on them i would have flown a legacy.


User currently offlinedtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
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So they posted the numbers and its 30 crews initially going to Dfw crews are being displaced from fll, Dtw and acy. They did not do this when they opened las. Fll could be due to construction but maybe this is the beginning of the end for acy or Dtw or both?

25 commavia : True - nobody knows for certain what the future holds. But we can observe other, similar markets (not perfect facsimilies but similar nonetheless) an
26 Post contains images IrishAyes : That's because there is none. You are 100% accurate in your defenses and SLC is stretching assumptions and trying to pass them off as truths, which i
27 flyboynk : Hmmm, actually it has not been posted yet on exactly how many. I have checked personal and company email. Nothing yet. Second they won't be displaced
28 slcdeltarumd11 : Look im in no way saying that spirit is going to roll major AA elites into spirit fans i never once said that. I am merely saying that spirit IS going
29 ROSWELL41 : ORD to LAX returns on NK on November 8th. It was stopped from 10/4 to 11/8. So much for that analysis...
30 airliner371 : If it does it is by VERY little. Spirit attracts a completely different customer.
31 type-rated : I don't think that AA is really going to care one way or another what NK charges as their products are totally different.
32 RWA380 : Blah, Blah filler, filler feel free to delete this.................[Edited 2012-10-07 19:01:07]
33 Post contains images OB1504 : The Spirit model is not suited to every market. Spirit knows it and the other airlines know it. Take that quote with a grain of salt, though. Many ti
34 RWA380 : The few people I spoke with on my one and only NK trip, stated they would not have been flying at all had it not been for the fare they got, fact of
35 BEG2IAH : Do you have a slightest idea how big AA is at DFW? You cannot compare AA with any other airline at DFW. It's just too big.
36 Post contains images IrishAyes : Wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the correction and the back-handed compliment, I guess? NK is also pulling out of DFWBOS. That is analogous to ORDLA
37 slcdeltarumd11 : YOU ARE REDICULOUS. Did i ever say this would happen? You are literally making stuff up i NEVER said. I said this: When did i say this? I like AA I a
38 flyboynk : Today Spirit announced it will start the DFW FA Crew base with 60 initial flight attendants... made up of voluntary transfers and local hiring and wil
39 lightsaber : I too think this is what is happening. To much of the rest of this thread seems to be triggered by someone who wants to argue. The reality is that Sp
40 flyboynk : Updated as of today Oct 9th.... “The new base will be home to over 250 crewmembers, including approximately 170 flight attendants and 80 pilots by
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