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Procter And Gamble's CVG Contract  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

This thread is mostly for my fellow CVG fliers...

What's the history behind the service that was offered to Europe from CVG? Was all of this or one of it (like the current CDG route) subsidized by P&G? How long does this last? Is it a contract, is it something paid for by P&G, who operated before DL created the hub at CVG, if there was any? If DL cuts the route, what happens?

Lots of questions, not enough knowledge for me to answer myself   

Thanks, PHX787


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61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9863 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If DL cuts the route, what happens?

As long as P&G is buying seats in bulk, DL will not cut the route. Look at RDU-LHR for AA; and CVG is a MUCH larger station for DL than RDU is for AA.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6963 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

What's the reason for flying into CDG ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9762 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 2):
What's the reason for flying into CDG ?

They have a huge site and office in Paris..



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9697 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
As long as P&G is buying seats in bulk, DL will not cut the route. Look at RDU-LHR for AA; and CVG is a MUCH larger station for DL than RDU is for AA.

Ah that really makes sense too.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
They have a huge site and office in Paris..

What ever happened to the Sabena route? I knew that was cut as a result of them shutting down, but doesn't P&G have offices there too?



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User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
Look at RDU-LHR for AA

Which company subsidizes this route, or are we still talking about Procter & Gamble?



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9634 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 5):

Which company subsidizes this route, or are we still talking about Procter & Gamble?

Several pool money for AA's LHR-RDU route. IDK which specifically but quite a few in and around the RTP.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9634 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What's the history behind the service that was offered to Europe from CVG?

The first European flight was from CVG to LGW which, according to departedflights.com, began in 1987, FRA followed not long after. The core European routes from CVG were always LGW, FRA, and ORY/CDG, all three of which were operating by 1990 and were flown year-round until FRA and LGW were discontinued in 2008/2009 I believe. Other European routes from CVG included FCO, AMS, MUC, ZRH, and BRU, but the addition and subtraction of these routes basically came and went with the various alliances and agreements DL had before they founded SkyTeam. ZRH was operated by DL, I believe, as part of their Atlantic Excellence Alliance with Swissair and was operated from 1993-2000 (again, hat tip to departedflights.com). Sabena operated service to BRU starting around the mid-1990's as part of this same Atlantic Excellence Alliance as well I believe. At the time, P&G had their main European offices in Brussels, so Sabena carried A LOT of local corporate traffic, so much so that they went on record stating that CVG was their most profitable North American route and often up-gauged it to a 747-300. Sabena flights were discontinued in March of 2000 with the formation of SkyTeam and the dissolution of the agreement between DL and Sabena. Soon after Sabena pulled out, AF commenced service to CVG, initially with 767's, then up-gauged to 747's in the summer months before 9/11 IIRC. After 9/11, AF had an on-again off-again relationship with CVG using a mix of A340's and A330's, FCO and AMS were added subsequent to KLM and Alitalia joining SkyTeam.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Was all of this or one of it (like the current CDG route) subsidized by P&G?

Keep in mind that P&G is not the only frequent user of this flight, other local companies such as GE Aviation, Convergys, Cintas, dunnhumbyUSA, Landor, and Kroger also regularly send people to Europe, though definitely not at the volume that P&G does. Having said that, no, obviously during the boom times the bulk of these European flights were supported by connecting traffic, having at least a solid amount of high yielding local traffic definitely did play a part though in making the European flights from CVG some of the most profitable in DL's system.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If DL cuts the route, what happens?

I would think when, if ever, the route becomes a loser for DL, they'll put the airport and companies with contracts for the flight on notice with some time to come up with an subsidy package which I'm sure the city would do. I doubt DL would ever discontinue though, regardless of what happens to the CVG. Even if the local area has to pony up subsidy payments at some point, I'm sure it'll continue.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9600 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
The first European flight was from CVG to LGW which, according to departedflights.com, began in 1987, FRA followed not long after.

Were these operated by DL?

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
AF commenced service to CVG, initially with 767's, then up-gauged to 747's in the summer months before 9/11 IIRC.

747s? I don't recall this at all. Does anyone have any photos of the 747s at CVG for AF?



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User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9504 times:

P&G has the EMEA office here in GVA. So many connect people connect from GVA through CDG to CVG.

The same with a large drilling company from Utah having its EMEA office in GVA: they connect through CDG to SLC. And they use CDG extensively from SLC to reach various African destinations.

In CVG, there is also a large GE traffic connecting in CDG to TLS.


User currently offlineSKC From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9332 times:

I know that during 2000, Ryan International operated a private charter for P&G. It was an A320 (N573DC) that was fitted with 66 seats in a single business configuration. The routing was CVG-KEF-BRU-KEF-CVG. I can't remember if it ran longer than a year, but know that P&G's biggest complaint, and a reason why they went to/back to DL was that Ryan couldn't offer FF miles like DL could.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3834 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
Quoting zkojq (Reply 5):

Which company subsidizes this route, or are we still talking about Procter & Gamble?

Several pool money for AA's LHR-RDU route. IDK which specifically but quite a few in and around the RTP.

GlaxoSmithKline, which is based near London, is one of them.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9208 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
Several pool money for AA's LHR-RDU route. IDK which specifically but quite a few in and around the RTP.
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
GlaxoSmithKline, which is based near London, is one of them.

Thanks for the info.  



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2989 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9208 times:
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Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):

Landor's largest office is in Cincinnati our contract is with United so I believe Lanorians from Cincy go through ORD, IAD or EWR.
It used to be Delta only. But I recall that P&G had 2 767's of their own at some point? Am I wrong? I recall people feeling very bummed traveling a lot and earning no miles. But that was over 10 years ago.

Also since we have offices in Geneva they go UA via IAD, or to our Simgapore office through ORD of SFO. I will have to ask. I know that since UA has Global First, the execs preferred UA over DL for a long time. We also have a BA contract and to London that is the carrier of choice. But once your 1k or GS, it's tough to let go!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8441 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 9):
P&G has the EMEA office here in GVA. So many connect people connect from GVA through CDG to CVG.

P&G is the 3rd largest employer in GVA with over 3,000 employees. It could soon become 2nd largest as it's been adding staff recently. In economic impact it's certainly bigger than the 2nd largest, Migros, the largest Swiss supermarket chain.

Following is in French but you can scroll down to the list of the 148 largest GVA employers. Rolex, the watchmaker, is #1.
http://www.bilan.ch/articles/economi...rands-employeurs-de-suisse-romande


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8259 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 9):
In CVG, there is also a large GE traffic connecting in CDG to TLS.

Hm That is interesting, I had no idea about that one.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
It used to be Delta only. But I recall that P&G had 2 767's of their own at some point? Am I wrong? I recall people feeling very bummed traveling a lot and earning no miles. But that was over 10 years ago.

They own an extensive fleet of privet jets but that's mostly for the execs, I think



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User currently offlinerafflesking From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8134 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
They have a huge site and office in Paris

Not really - it's a large office but not a regional HQ so there's minimal O&D on the CVG-CDG flight for Procter employees.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
Keep in mind that P&G is not the only frequent user of this flight, other local companies such as GE Aviation, Convergys, Cintas, dunnhumbyUSA, Landor, and Kroger also regularly send people to Europe, though definitely not at the volume that P&G does.

Precisely. While P&G employees certainly miss the nonstop LGW and FRA departures, we make do just fine with 1 stop connections through CDG as well as 1-stops through EWR and IAD on UA metal. The latter options have proved rather convenient as well since arrival times into our key sites around LON and in GVA and BRU can be reached by early morning.

Chiquita may have fled CVG for CLT because of lack of flight options, but we have enough workarounds to deal with the marginal inconvenience should DL ever want to do away with the CDG nonstop.


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
747s? I don't recall this at all. Does anyone have any photos of the 747s at CVG for AF?

I can confirm it is true because I flew AF 747-200 CVG-CDG in may 2001. And it was completely packed   


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8078 times:

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 16):
Chiquita may have fled CVG for CLT because of lack of flight options, but we have enough workarounds to deal with the marginal inconvenience should DL ever want to do away with the CDG nonstop.

My dad brought this up to me a while back: If DL were to cut the direct flight to CDG, he thinks that a lot of his customers in Cincy would move to different cities. I know P&G has been in Cincy for quite some time and are content where they are, but do you think that this could be the case for other companies should DL cut this route?



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User currently offlinerafflesking From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
but do you think that this could be the case for other companies should DL cut this route?

It's an interesting question - but I don't think so.

If memory serves, Chiquita has ~400 administrative employees only in Cincy, which comprised their corporate headquarters. So in additional the the flight conveniences in CLT, I believe they were offered them sizable tax incentives to relocate. I probably overstated in my initial post the value of nonstop flight connections - I doubt a move without tax breaks would have ever been considered.

Naturally, companies like P&G and GE have way too sizable operations (both employees and capital) to justify similar actions but they are also more a chicken than the egg (read: they are larger contributors to justify retain diverse air service whereas Chiquita benefited).

Cincinnati is an interesting market because it has the largest # of Fortune 500 companies per capita than any other city. DL's cutbacks aren't new and the other key companies have made it work by either diversifying their flying contracts or dealing with less frequency. The only other company I can think of headquartered in Cincy similiar to Chiquita is Macys - they keep their primary marketing operations in New York (and I believe have a higher administrative employee count there), but I suspect the City of Cincinnati provides continued incentives to remain.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7720 times:

Quoting goldorak (Reply 17):
I can confirm it is true because I flew AF 747-200 CVG-CDG in may 2001. And it was completely packed

I hope someone has pictures of it   

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 19):
If memory serves, Chiquita has ~400 administrative employees only in Cincy, which comprised their corporate headquarters.

Ah well, I guess in retrospect, that makes sense then.

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 19):
but I suspect the City of Cincinnati provides continued incentives to remain.

You know what I think my dad said about Macy's is that they are using Cincy as headquarters because it's too expensive to have a headquarters in NYC because of the taxes and political climate of the big apple. Go figure



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User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7489 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Were these operated by DL?

Yes, prior to DL I don't believe CVG had any type of scheduled or charter TATL service.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
747s? I don't recall this at all. Does anyone have any photos of the 747s at CVG for AF?

I believe they only operated it in the summer just prior to 9/11.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
What ever happened to the Sabena route? I knew that was cut as a result of them shutting down, but doesn't P&G have offices there too?

It was a combination of the codeshare with DL ending and P&G moving their European office to Geneva.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 13):
Landor's largest office is in Cincinnati our contract is with United so I believe Lanorians from Cincy go through ORD, IAD or EWR.

No doubt, but I have caught some Landor people on DL's non-stop to Paris headed to Landor's office there.

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 16):
Chiquita may have fled CVG for CLT because of lack of flight options, but we have enough workarounds to deal with the marginal inconvenience should DL ever want to do away with the CDG nonstop.

Yeah but Chiquita's move had been in the pipe for quite a while. Their main issue was that they needed non-stops to Central and South America which CVG has never offered even at it's height.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
My dad brought this up to me a while back: If DL were to cut the direct flight to CDG, he thinks that a lot of his customers in Cincy would move to different cities.

It's doubtful. Consider it from a business perspective, a company doesn't decide to headquarter in a city or set-up operations there solely because a specific non-stop flight exists, there are a multitude of other reasons which make the case for choosing a specific location.


User currently offlineocracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
The first European flight was from CVG to LGW which, according to departedflights.com, began in 1987, FRA followed not long after. The core European routes from CVG were always LGW, FRA, and ORY/CDG, all three of which were operating by 1990 and were flown year-round until FRA and LGW were discontinued in 2008/2009 I believe. Other European routes from CVG included FCO, AMS, MUC, ZRH, and BRU, but the addition and subtraction of these routes basically came and went with the various alliances and agreements DL had before they founded SkyTeam. ZRH was operated by DL, I believe, as part of their Atlantic Excellence Alliance with Swissair and was operated from 1993-2000

Correct. FRA was double daily. Also, for a few years, CDG and ZRH were not daily flights during the winter. CDG went 3 or 4 days a week, and ZRH went the other 3 or 4. Even though at the time, CVG-ZRH was DL's only flight to ZRH. Everything else was code-shared on SR (even ATL-ZRH).

Quoting SKC (Reply 10):
I know that during 2000, Ryan International operated a private charter for P&G. It was an A320 (N573DC) that was fitted with 66 seats in a single business configuration. The routing was CVG-KEF-BRU-KEF-CVG. I can't remember if it ran longer than a year, but know that P&G's biggest complaint, and a reason why they went to/back to DL was that Ryan couldn't offer FF miles like DL could.

Having spoken to many P&G employees that took this flight back in the day, that was one of the major complaints about Ryan International. The other two being:

1) Whenever the weather got bad in Iceland, and Ryan didn't think they could make their fuel stop at KEF, they would simply cancel the flight, leaving P&G employees already checked in at the airport scrambling to see what last second (and literally last second!) seat they could buy on DL to try to get to Europe. Lot's of last second CVG-LGW-ground-LHR-final destination tickets sold. I'm sure that got old fast....

2) That fuel stop. Nice having those wide business seats, but by the time dinner was done and you were about ready to try to get some sleep, it was time to put the seats back upright and prepare for landing in KEF. No one could really get any quality sleep on the flight.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
My dad brought this up to me a while back: If DL were to cut the direct flight to CDG, he thinks that a lot of his customers in Cincy would move to different cities.

There are many corporations with world wide business dealings going on that don't have their main operations at cities with international flights. Caterpillar, Peoria, Illinois. John Deere, Moline, Illinois. ConAgra, Omaha, Nebraska. Norfolk Southern, Norfolk, Virginia. Whirlpool, Benton Harbor, Michigan.
That's just off of the top of my head. All of those companies, plus many more, do a boatload of business overseas, yet don't have a international airline flying to their nearest airport. Why would P&G be any different should DL decide to pull CVG-CDG?

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 21):
It's doubtful. Consider it from a business perspective, a company doesn't decide to headquarter in a city or set-up operations there solely because a specific non-stop flight exists, there are a multitude of other reasons which make the case for choosing a specific location.

There have been some cases when they do. I remember the main reason Ashland Oil/Chemicals moving to the Cincinnati area was because they specifically said that they could reach all of their important business meetings with a non-stop flight out of CVG, and they couldn't do that out of HTS. I don't remember if they got any tax breaks to move, but probably not, since they moved from one town in Kentucky to another town in Kentucky. But they specifically said at the time that it was the extremely limited air service out of HTS that caused them to move.

But I agree; it depends on the company. A smaller company like Ashland or Chiquita could afford to move. A bigger company like P&G, it would have to take more than just a simple airline route. Even Boeing, when they moved, just moved their headquarters. Everything else stayed put.


User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 21):

I believe they only operated it in the summer just prior to 9/11.

Yes AF operated B747-200 and also I think B747-400 (to be confirmed for the B744)


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
Keep in mind that P&G is not the only frequent user of this flight, other local companies such as GE Aviation, Convergys, Cintas, dunnhumbyUSA, Landor, and Kroger also regularly send people to Europe, though definitely not at the volume that P&G does. Having said that, no, obviously during the boom times the bulk of these European flights were supported by connecting traffic,

It's common for people here to claim that a route is supported on the backs of a company that has offices on both sides of the route. Most of the time I find these claims simplistic--I mean how many people can dunnhumby--a company that employs 2,000 worldwide--be flying between Cincinnati and Europe? The thought that even P&G would have enough people flying back and forth a day to "support" a flight was a stretch. Not sure what business our friends at Kroger have in Europe.

That said, I checked the statistics I had access to and was surprised to see a breakdown (rounded percentages) of:

Originating CVG: 65%, comprised of:

To CDG: 20%

Beyond CDG: 45%

Connecting behind CVG: 35%

So I guess I was wrong.


25 SKC : 1. Being a non-ETOPS aircraft, Iceland was key. When KEF, RKV, AEY, and EGS had crappy weather our hands were tied. Completely understand the situati
26 LHCVG : Yup. There is enough traffic that even if DL eventually asks for a subsidy, it shouldn't be too large or hard to assemble. The route isn't in danger
27 PHX787 : I know this isn't much but doesn't this look like high demand for TATL service?
28 LHCVG : Not really when you consider the local business market and the fact that a decent chunk is also going beyond CDG. It's respectable, but it's not anyt
29 PITrules : Actually based on your data I would think your original assumtion is correct. If I read your data correct, only 20% of the passengers on the flight s
30 flyguy89 : Right, but the connections beyond CDG, mainly to GVA, FRA, and TLS are also important to the flight...as in local companies use the flight extensivel
31 PITrules : This is true, but important connections beyond CDG is not unique to the CVG-CDG route. When speaking in terms of percentages, raw numbers don't matte
32 neveragain : Yes, you're reading the data correctly. I was actually surprised the numbers showed that 2/3 of traffic was local CVG. I would've expected less. I th
33 Post contains images PHX787 : It's not high at all according to these numbers. If one was to plan a route solely off of numbers here, this route could easily be cut and added to,
34 neveragain : Yes, pretty bleak statistics. The more connecting service gets pulled, I don't see how this route can stick around.
35 flyguy89 : It is when CVG-CDG provides one-stop connections to tertiary markets to Europe and beyond that would otherwise require a double connection (i.e. TLS,
36 LHCVG : P&G obviously doesn't send thousands to Europe, but their business on various CVG flights like CDG is a very large factor in the viability of tho
37 PITrules : If anything this shows that if DL completely cuts CVG as a hub, Cincinnati would still be a solid market for 757 service to CDG. But again, how is th
38 neveragain : CVG has approximately 35 PPDEW to CDG, PIT 30 (on all airlines, not just those flying nonstop). Five more O&D passengers. P*ssing contest won, I
39 LHCVG : It's only unique to the extent that Cincinnati is a much smaller and cheaper market to reside and operate in. It is certainly a privilege that could
40 flyguy89 : I agree, it's probably one of the saving graces for smaller outlier cities like CVG, PIT, and RDU with decent int'l demand being within 757 range of
41 runway23 : To TLS yes but saying you need to double connect to GVA is far fetched. GVA has 4 daily transatlantic flights from EWR, IAD, JFK, YYZ/YUL. All the ma
42 PHX787 : I think we covered this previously, but the 757 doesn't quite have the range for the CVG-CDG route. They're better off with the 767 if CVG is de-hubb
43 neveragain : DoT data for international city-pairs is restricted and not publicly available. Sabre/MIDT is the only source I know of.
44 B727FA : Offshore International HQ there. 55 seats (56 - 1 for pilot rest) and 6 FA's. No 767's and now mostly G-Vs That, too isn't quite accurate. Our servic
45 neveragain : Fewer than 10 per day. CVG is the 11th busiest U.S. O&D market to GVA, slightly behind MSP (not sure I understand that one), but ahead of DEN, IA
46 runway23 : Cargill have their European HQ's in GVA.
47 neveragain : Aha. And the Swiss colors are red and white, just like Target's! Only kidding . . .
48 flyguy89 : True, but for P&G, Air Canada and Swiss are out of the question, they mostly keep to connecting through CDG, DL/AF have made a point of retiming
49 neveragain : I would agree that is indeed a fair indicator.
50 ocracoke : Exactly my point. One of the major complaints was that by the time meal service was done (you say 90 minutes after takeoff), that left, what?,....2 -
51 LHCVG : I'd bet there is a bit of cargo on that route too. Not sure how much that impacts the bottom line, but I'd guess it would hurt the case for a 757 mor
52 B727FA : The distance to KEF is approx 3000 miles. Give or take, 6 hrs for time; that gave an approximate "down time" for people of 4.5 hrs. I'm not saying th
53 bhmdiversion : I find it funny that P&G keeps their Gulfstream's at Lunken and not CVG!
54 Post contains images PHX787 : Kroger Corp has a lot of planes at LUK too. I like LUK
55 B727FA : Why? Much closer to downtown, no air traffic (yeah, well...um...I guess that's a wash at CVG these days), etc. Western-Southern, Kroger, all of Lindn
56 bhmdiversion : Why pay two different fees (Subsidy at CVG and Landing/Hangar fees at LUK). Why not consolidate your operation to one airport? Since CVG is dwindling
57 PHX787 : It's why service at LUK has increased greatly over the last 3 years
58 LHCVG : Did they ever go through with buying the large bizjets that will have to be based at CVG? I can't remember which model it was, but a few years ago th
59 Post contains images B727FA : They currently have 5 G550s and I believe a Global Express was in the works, but that has been deferred for now. I am close to a recently retired sr e
60 SKC : Ah that's right. It was some of the sports charter 727s that had the 66, I think. Maybe N521DB?
61 mayor : Yes...........but there were none until DL made CVG a hub. I don't believe that P&G (or anyone) subsidized ANY of the int'l. flights out of CVG.
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US To Add DCA To CVG And DSM posted Mon Feb 13 2012 05:34:31 by rafflesking
UA And Mechanics Reach Tentative Contract posted Fri Nov 11 2011 13:10:22 by United1
BA And RR Sign $5billion Engine Contract posted Thu Jan 6 2011 02:32:30 by GSTBA
UA Flight Benefits & And A Little Contract Talk posted Sat Aug 7 2010 11:09:30 by FlyASAGuy2005
DL And CVG Concourse C posted Mon Mar 23 2009 10:20:30 by KYAir
Mesa And Pilots Agree On New Contract posted Tue Oct 7 2008 12:23:30 by Apodino