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Has BA Ordered 10 More A320s?  
User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11293 times:

Hi all,

This is my first post on airliners.net. Been circling the site for a while but got my premium wings now.

I see on thebasource and jethros that BA has possibly ordered 10 more A320s but basource has a question mark as not confirmed with IAG or Airbus?

Maybe an announcement or confirmation next week but interested to know if this is expansion or replacements or a simple rumour? Is this the Oct announcement people have been talking about?


Your thoughts or any confirmation please.........

[Edited 2012-10-06 17:21:56]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineboysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10894 times:

BD did have some A320 orders/options I seem to remeber, on the A321. Maybe these are now inherited by BA.

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10595 times:

Hasn´t planning BA to replace the LGW based 737s soon with A319s ?


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10288 times:

Didn't IBE have some on order thar were rumoured to be transferred to BAW?

User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9714 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 3):
Didn't IBE have some on order thar were rumoured to be transferred to BAW?

5 A320 options taken up earlier this year that were then than transferred to BA.

Could be linked to a 737-436 retirement at LGW, with A319s and possibly A320s moving down from LHR.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9420 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
5 A320 options taken up earlier this year that were then than transferred to BA.

Just wondering which engines they will have as IB have CFM and BA IAE - as they are IB options that were converted will they have to stick with CFM even though they are destined for BA?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9118 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 3):
Didn't IBE have some on order thar were rumoured to be transferred to BAW?
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
5 A320 options taken up earlier this year that were then than transferred to BA.

IB firmed up five 320 options. t the time it was announced that IB would sell these aircraft tgo BA oin delivery.

Additionally BA had 31 options on 320 family aircraft, presumably with pencilled in delivery dates.


User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8574 times:

Thanks for replies so far.

Reading your comments this maybe BA confirming, IB, BD and its own previous options. Maybe this week we might here an official confirmation.

I suppose they could use this 10 to backfill some 319s or older 320s moving to replace some of the relic 400s at LGW. Or maybe use the 10 on new routes out of LHR?

Jethros says delivery starts June 2013 until November 2014 and will be registered G-EUYO-Y.

Good point on the IB engines, can order transfers have engine changes (CFM to IAE?).


User currently offlineChrisM001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 72 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Will be delivered as 'standard' BA A320's with IAE engines.

User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8496 times:

Thanks for answering the engine query ChrisM001.

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8045 times:
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Expect these to replace the end of lease ex BMI craft and the first BA G-euu craft .

These are not for expansion.

The 734 replacement may be a separate purchase .


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7430 times:

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 7):
I suppose they could use this 10 to backfill some 319s or older 320s moving to replace some of the relic 400s at LGW.

By the end of nexr month all the ten oldest 320s in the BA fleet (G-EUUA to 'UJ) will be between only 10 and 11 years old. However they, like all the ex-BD 320s, are leased. So this makes sense if the leases are due to expire relatively soon even though BA policy in the past has been to operate owned aircraft for uo to 18 to 20 years for short haul types and for between 20 and 25 years or more for their long haul aircraft.

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 7):
Good point on the IB engines, can order transfers have engine changes (CFM to IAE?).

Yes. For example BA 320 G-EUUH was built as a Type 214 allocated to Aer Lingus. The order was cancelled. The aircraft was stored at TLS from January to October 2002. For most of that period - if memory serves me correctly - it had an EI tail. In October it was delivered to BA after being converted to a Type 232 (fitted with IAE engines) and painted in BA Union Flag livery.

So I am sure, subject to possible negotiation with the engine manufacturer, an ordered 214 can be built as a 232. Indeed as both IB and BA have 320 / 320 family options, engine manufacturer negotiations may not even be necessay. IAG (as the customer) could just ask Airbus to swop delivery positons between IB and BA optioned aircraft as part of the negotiations to firm up the five options. I cannot see either Airbus or CFM arguing too much. Airbus would like the firm order. I do not think CFM would want to upset Airbus by getting in the way of that order.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3735 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7247 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
By the end of nexr month all the ten oldest 320s in the BA fleet (G-EUUA to 'UJ) will be between only 10 and 11 years old.

The A320s inherited from the merger with BCAL back in the late 80s are the oldest. They never saw the BCAL livery but they were about to be delivered when the merger occurred. Those were the only ones to have seen the blue/gray Union Jack scheme. I'm not sure if those are still in the fleet.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):

Yes. For example BA 320 G-EUUH was built as a Type 214 allocated to Aer Lingus. The order was cancelled. The aircraft was stored at TLS from January to October 2002. For most of that period - if memory serves me correctly - it had an EI tail. In October it was delivered to BA after being converted to a Type 232 (fitted with IAE engines) and painted in BA Union Flag livery.

Right I see, I noticed that two G-EUU* A320s were cancelled EI aircraft so engine swap is clearly not a problem then, thanks.

I flew on G-EUUC and G-EUUD this summer and I can't remember which one it was but one looked tired and was in need of a refresh (especially inside).

Quoting American 767 (Reply 12):

The A320s inherited from the merger with BCAL back in the late 80s are the oldest. They never saw the BCAL livery but they were about to be delivered when the merger occurred. Those were the only ones to have seen the blue/gray Union Jack scheme. I'm not sure if those are still in the fleet.

The Ex B-Cal G-BUS* 320s have all left the BA fleet now and most likely helped to supply the drinks can industry.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Are they really rolling over A320s that date from 2001? Very un BA, especially given that the A320 NEO is offered? From memory, G-EUUB has just been re-painted(!)

User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
Yes. For example BA 320 G-EUUH was built as a Type 214 allocated to Aer Lingus. The order was cancelled. The aircraft was stored at TLS from January to October 2002. For most of that period - if memory serves me correctly - it had an EI tail. In October it was delivered to BA after being converted to a Type 232 (fitted with IAE engines) and painted in BA Union Flag livery.

So I am sure, subject to possible negotiation with the engine manufacturer, an ordered 214 can be built as a 232. Indeed as both IB and BA have 320 / 320 family options, engine manufacturer negotiations may not even be necessay. IAG (as the customer) could just ask Airbus to swop delivery positons between IB and BA optioned aircraft as part of the negotiations to firm up the five options. I cannot see either Airbus or CFM arguing too much. Airbus would like the firm order. I do not think CFM would want to upset Airbus by getting in the way of that order.

Never knew that was the case with 'UH! Quite interesting, didn't know they could change the engines once they'd been built! Only thought they did it on Prototypes!

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5692 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 12):
The A320s inherited from the merger with BCAL back in the late 80s are the oldest.

The last BA flight by any of the 10 320-111s and 320-211s that were ordered by BCal but delivered to BA was by G-BUSJ on 21 August 2011. On that date G-BUSJ operated BUD-LHR (BA869). None entered airline service after being withdrawn from use by BA:

G-BUSB: WFU 27 November 07. Parked GYR 12 December 07. Fuselage moved to MHV late 08
G-BUSC: WFU 30 September 07. Parked GYR 17 October 07. Broken up by April 08 as N115AT
G-BUSD: WFU 27 October 06. Fuselage used as cabin trainer Velbert, Germany
G-BUSE: WFU 29 Decemmber 08. Parked MHV January 08. Broken up
G-BUSF: WFU 31 August 07. Fuselage used as cabin trainer in Velbert, Germany
G-BUSG: WFU 22 October 09. Parked LDE since 5 May 10
G-BUSH: WFU 14 January 11 Parked LDE since 2 March 11
G-BUSI: WFU 20 July 10. Parked LDE since 23 November10
G-BUSJ: WFU 31 August 11. Parked CHR in BA Basic livery since 23 November11
G-BUSK: WFU 29 April 11. Parked LDE since 14 July 11


User currently offlinegingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 893 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

Quoting GCPET (Reply 15):
Never knew that was the case with 'UH! Quite interesting, didn't know they could change the engines once they'd been built! Only thought they did it on Prototypes!

Do they use different pylons? They look similar but I'm almost certain they do.

Apart from that I'd imagine it's more or less a software difference. I could be totally wrong of course  



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 17):
Do they use different pylons? They look similar but I'm almost certain they do.

I guess in the case of the A320s for BA being acquired via IB options this won't be much of an issue as they are new aircraft and presumably will be built with the pylons appropriate to the engines that will eventually be slung under their wings.


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4299 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting American 767 (Reply 12):
The A320s inherited from the merger with BCAL back in the late 80s are the oldest. They never saw the BCAL livery but they were about to be delivered when the merger occurred.

Several aircraft definitely did see the B.CAL livery, although none flew revenue flights in that scheme.
http://www.british-caledonian.com/images/F-WWDA2.jpg

There are several photos of at least 3 different aircraft wearing the B.CAL livery on the excellent British Caledonian website;
http://www.british-caledonian.com/A320.html

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3735 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3970 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm wondering this: Would BCAL have added the A319 or the A321, or both, if they had stayed in business?

I am sure that BA would have bought at some point in the late 90s the A32X to replace the 737, even if it had not flown previously the A320 since the BCAL order.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 19):
Several aircraft definitely did see the B.CAL livery, although none flew revenue flights in that scheme.

I believe that two 320s were painted in full BCal livery.

C/n 006 made its first flight in BCal livery on 9 November 1987. Then it carried the test registration F-WWDD. But by 31 March 1988 when it was reregistered G-BUSB and delivered it was in British Airways Landor livery.

Similarly c/n 008 made its first flight in BCal livery on 4 December 1987. It then carried the test registration F-WWDE, When it was reregistered G-BUSC and delivered on 3 June 1988 it too was in Landor livery,

Although the next BCal/BA a/c, c/n 011 may have been in the assembly hangar with a BCal tail, I do not think it was ever painted in full BCal livery and titles. I believe it made its first flight (on 5 February 1988) in the Landor livery with "British Airways" titles. But if anyone has any contrary information I would welcome it.

The first two of the above aircraft were originally assigned the registrations G-BRSA and 'SB. But they were never registered as such. Indeed both registrations were recently used to register CS-31HB Hot Air Balloons to their manufacturer, Cameron Balloons. And as far as I can determine the 320s were never actually painted with these registrations. Here please note that while reuse of old, cancelled registrations is permitted in many countries, this is not permissible in the UK. Nevertheless it is possible the 320s were painted with these registrations in anticipation of them being registered with them .

There is an enigma. The photo in Reply 13 distinctly shows F-WWDA in BCal livery. But all the listings I have seen including this one:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a320-2.htm

state that the only 320 to carry this test registration at that time (1988) or, indeed, before October 2002 was c/n 002. That aircraft became F-GFKQ with Air France. Can anyone clear this up? After October 2002 is another matter. Since then ten different 320s have been taped with this test registration.

Thanks for any clarification.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3718 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 20):
I am sure that BA would have bought at some point in the late 90s the A32X to replace the 737, even if it had not flown previously the A320 since the BCAL order.

Not guaranteed that BA would have ordered the A320. Although it placed a mass order for the A320 family in the late 1990s, which has made the A320 with IAE engines BA's shorthaul aircraft of choice, it could equally have gone for the 737NG family given the reputation BA had for always ordering Boeing.

Despite experience with the BCal A320s being favourable - and the fact they quickly moved over from LGW (BCal's former base) to LHR in 1988 - BA ordered the 737-436 that it started taking delivery of in the early 1990s. This left the CFM powered A320s as an oddball fleet in BA.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

The odd A320, cn 002, mentioned above was from memory, painted as BR on one side and AF on the other for marketing purposes. From memory.........

User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Crazy to think that was 25 year ago. I always wondered why BA kept the sub fleet of buses for so many years when they had so many Boeing 737s and 757s. Would loved to have seen 737NGs in fleet but like many European airlines chosen the A32X family.

BA need to do a few retro liveries

BA original red/blue British Airways livery from 1974.
BCal livery with BA titles
Dan Air livery with BA titles
British Midland - dark blue/ light blue striped livery from 1970s.

Hopefully some of the new 10 could be delivered as such  

Come on BA more retro aircraft please!


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 22):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 20):
I am sure that BA would have bought at some point in the late 90s the A32X to replace the 737, even if it had not flown previously the A320 since the BCAL order.

Not guaranteed that BA would have ordered the A320. Although it placed a mass order for the A320 family in the late 1990s, which has made the A320 with IAE engines BA's shorthaul aircraft of choice, it could equally have gone for the 737NG family given the reputation BA had for always ordering Boeing.

The 737NG didn't exist at that point, losing BA and UA have Boeing a much needed jolt that they couldm't rely on the 737 Classics for ever!



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 24):
BA need to do a few retro liveries

BA original red/blue British Airways livery from 1974.
BCal livery with BA titles
Dan Air livery with BA titles
British Midland - dark blue/ light blue striped livery from 1970s.

My views are very different.

I was pleased that BA did a retro 752. But that was a true retro paint job. It was a precise reproduction of the livery in which the first 752s entered service with BA. And it was of historic interest. After all the 752 was the last new type to be painted in the Negus & Negus livery. None of the types currently in service with BA ever wore it.

Sure there was small titling around the cabin door to tell passengers that the aircraft was a "British Airways" operated aircraft. This was a requirement as it carried "British" and not "British Airways" titles. Further British Air Ferries had painted its aircraft withe "British" titles in the early 1990s. But otherwise it exactly reproduced the Negus & Negus livery in which the original 752s were delivered to BA. This was right down to the small gold "Royal Mail" titles and logo rather than the newer style red, white and gold titles/logo adopted by the Royal Mail in around 1994 that is painted on the left side of all but a handful of BA's current aircraft. It also included a (new) Castle Class name, "Stokesay Castle".

Painting an aircraft type in a "retro" livery that that type never wore seems, at least to me, somehow out of place. Painting an aircraft in the livery of a different, failed airline like BCal or Dan Air is to me an even worse option. And, for promotional reasons, it will never happen unless the aircraft has been removed from service. But even then I am sure that BA would not allow an aircraft to be painted in another airline's livery, particularly that of a failed airline, along with "British Airways" titles.

So that does still leave BA with the option of painting a 320 (entered BA service April '88), a 744 (July '89), a 763 (February '90), a 734 (Oct '91) and/or a 772 (May '96) in Landor livery. So that could be a 763 in the next few years or a 320 or 772 in a generation or two. Perhaps this could be done when the last of these aircraft is retired. However for me it would ideally be an iconic 744 during its last few months of operations for BA. If it happens I think it is most likely to be a 772. Just as the 752 was the last new type to be delivered in the Negus & Negus livery, so the 772 was the last new type to be delivered in the Landor livery.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Landor isn't old enough to be interesting in a retro way. US Airways fly a few A319s as Allegheny, PSA and the like but with US Airways titles. The most accurate retrojet would be the B747, which in it's -136 series flew with BOAC and British Airways Negus and Negus.

If they wanted to do heritage, well I would imagine a Cambrian or Northeast A320 would look awesome. More realistically, the last BEA scheme, with the half Union Flag would be an option.

This of course will never happen. Bear in mind "heritage" to BA meant scrapping the preserved and unique G-APFJ and G-ARWM. That STILL hurts to this day.


User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3190 times:

I was thinking what US airways did with the PSA livery etc would be good from BA heritage POV.
Isn't Mar 2014 the 40th anniversary if BA, BEA, Cambrian and Northeast merger, a good time to do something retro or celebratory on these A320s and the 788s and A380s being delivered around this time.

I see you point VV701 on these not being true retro and also failure of these airlines but BA still absorbed them and some of the staff, aircraft stayed on with BA (if some were only for a while) I'm sure BA wouldn't be the airline it is today unless it had grown as it did.

Agreed it most likely won't happen but always good to throw our thoughts and ideas out there. A BEA A320 would be good though  


User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

Annoying that this has turned into a livery thread...

Anyone have any updates to as wheter there are new aricraft coming into the fleet or not?

Thanks


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 25):
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 22):
Not guaranteed that BA would have ordered the A320. Although it placed a mass order for the A320 family in the late 1990s, which has made the A320 with IAE engines BA's shorthaul aircraft of choice, it could equally have gone for the 737NG family given the reputation BA had for always ordering Boeing.

The 737NG didn't exist at that point, losing BA and UA have Boeing a much needed jolt that they couldm't rely on the 737 Classics for ever!

BA didn't place its mass order for the A320 family until August 1998, by which point the 737NG had been in production for two years!



Let's Go British Caledonian!
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