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Colombian Aviation #11  
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Since the last thread passed 200 replies, it's time for a new installment. Can't believe we've made it to #11!

Last ideas on the #10 topic were the changes in the domestic schedule, including the new applications to Aerocivil, mainly for domestic routes by Easyfly and Avianca and the decreases and increases in the LAN network as they continue to adjust.

On the international side, there will be some frequency increases by AV, LH is going daily to BOG starting with the winter schedule and B6 is launching JFK-CTG.

BOG is getting a new state of the air traffic control centre, which hasn't been free of controversy due to the cost.

To a good discussion!


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
210 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13369 times:

I can't remember or recall where I saw it but, I believe there was talk of AV getting a new color scheme, or at least looking into it, can anyone confirm?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13302 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 1):
I can't remember or recall where I saw it but, I believe there was talk of AV getting a new color scheme, or at least looking into it, can anyone confirm?

No official statements on the new livery for AVTA. At this moment an AV A332 is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery, and will be the first A332 transferred to TA Peru. Rumors says, they will keep the AV livery and have TA interior.

[Edited 2012-10-08 03:14:42]

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13269 times:

I don't think AV's livery needs updating. I think SXDFC may be confused with TA might be getting the AV livery seeing that the decision to keep the AV brand alone has been taken now.

I bought an AV 787 scale model when I was in BOG a few months ago and noticed the Avianca titles are bigger but that is about the only change. Making the titles bigger is a good improvement. AV's current livery is very well identifiable and is one of the few brands that is so recognisable.

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13085 times:

Hello All!

New Here, long time reader, I guess I never had the balls to sign up and comment on stuff.

I think we're facing some very interesting times in colombian aviation, Avianca's expansion, LAN's purchase of Aires, and the sustained growth of all the smaller carriers in the country, but most important of all is the job openings this has created, ten years ago Colombia was going through some very tough times, thankfully that is all behind us.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 1):

I hope AV doesn't change its livery, I personally think it looks good, but in truth anything after the Summa fiasco was going to be an improvement.

J.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13063 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 4):
Hello All!

New Here, long time reader, I guess I never had the balls to sign up and comment on stuff.

Welcome to the forum!

It's been officially announced (previously known) that the Avianca (Aerovías del Continente Americano) brand will be retained for all of the operations in the AviancaTaca group:

http://www.caracol.com.co/noticias/e...l-unica/20121010/nota/1776805.aspx

One of the A330s is receiving the Star livery in BOG and will be the one transferring to LIM shortly. It will be interesting to see how the re-branding is done to Tampa's upcoming A330Fs! Avianca Cargo? Aviancargo?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4391 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

AV BOG-GIG goes from 5x to 7x weekly from December 17th: 319 all the way !
It would complement the existing TA LIM-GIG 7x weekly.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12944 times:

I think it was a smart move on behalf of AV/TA lose the Taca part of the name, IMHO the key here was to keep one of the names instead of going with a full rebranding.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
Quote:
It will be interesting to see how the re-branding is done to Tampa's upcoming A330Fs! Avianca Cargo? Aviancargo?

I hope they paint Tampa's a330's in Avianca colors, they would look better than the boring white they have on their 67's now and it would allow them to continue moving forward towards having a single brand.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
Quote:
One of the A330s is receiving the Star livery in BOG and will be the one transferring to LIM shortly.

Do you know which one it will be? I heard it was going to be N975AV but just a rumour, also where will they paint it? AVA's hangars at TPA aren't big enough to fit an A330. Maybe Tampa's hangar at RNG is big enough? I know its capable of fitting a B763 inside.

J.

[Edited 2012-10-11 02:52:50]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12942 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 7):
I think it was a smart move on behalf of AV/TA lose the Taca part of the name, IMHO the key here was to keep one of the names instead of going with a full rebranding.

And the unification of brands and livery to Avianca, will make it easier and faster to transfer more planes in the Synergy group.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 7):
Do you know which one it will be? I heard it was going to be N975AV but just a rumour, also where will they paint it? AVA's hangars at TPA aren't big enough to fit an A330. Maybe Tampa's hangar at RNG is big enough? I know its capable of fitting a B763 inside.

They say actually it is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery in MDE (RNG), and it is N279AV delivered to Avianca 14 January 2012.


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12817 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 8):
Quote:
They say actually it is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery in MDE (RNG), and it is N279AV delivered to Avianca 14 January 2012.

Nice! One of the newer and also one of the lighter frames on AV's fleet.


From the rumour mill,

It has been said that the deal with ATR to replace the Fokker 50's has fallen apart, the reason? it appears Bombardier has not only agreed to handover the airplanes (Q400) for a great price but has also agreed to fix MZL and TCO's runways, the deal is for 10-12 planes but it can change to 20+ if LAN finally decides to pull out of the regional market. Again only a rumour, I think this is kind of interesting.

Thoughts?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12789 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 9):
Nice! One of the newer and also one of the lighter frames on AV's fleet.

maybe a hint for a sooner or later LIM-MAD ops?

cheers
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12769 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 9):
It has been said that the deal with ATR to replace the Fokker 50's has fallen apart, the reason? it appears Bombardier has not only agreed to handover the airplanes (Q400) for a great price but has also agreed to fix MZL and TCO's runways, the deal is for 10-12 planes but it can change to 20+ if LAN finally decides to pull out of the regional market. Again only a rumour, I think this is kind of interesting.

Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

I guess they're also aiming at some point to replace the regional ATR fleet in Central America.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12659 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
maybe a hint for a sooner or later LIM-MAD ops?

We will most likely see LIM-MAD in 2013. My guess first LIM-EZE, LIM-MIA, and LIM-GRU with the new A332. If TA (AV) plans to run daily LIM-MAD, at least two A332 should be available. And Synergy Group has more A330's on order. Let's see about long-haul fleet transfer/rotation after TA adopt AV's brand.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12619 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):
Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big. ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes. From an appeal point of view, I do like the Q400.

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12599 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):
Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

It's not official, just a rumour for now, but the person I heard it from is very high up the organizational ladder, the part that excites me the most is actually not the airplane supplier, but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying (it's a gold mine!!), it was also mentioned that they're getting ready for the arrival of the "new airplane" and that next year no A330 copilots will transition to the left seat of the A320, they will be going to the left seat of the new turboprop instead.

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big. ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes. From an appeal point of view, I do like the Q400.

Which routes are you referring to? The Fokker 50's are being mostly used to MZL as pretty much every other route has been upgraded to the A318, EJA, NVA for example, IBE is the next city to get A318 service once the apron is expanded as the runway is fully capable of handling the plane.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12564 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big.
Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes.

The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Also, one of the advantages of the Q400 is their very low CASM. They can transport up to 70 pax, but they break even with half that load, bringing the ATR-42/72 commonality to a disadvantage.

Quoting troest (Reply 12):

We will most likely see LIM-MAD in 2013.

Probably. Let's hope the wide bodies and the brand unification give the LIM hub the final push it needs to start seriously growing. TA has been very inconsistent with the schedule as of late.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying

That is also great. It would mean a huge increase in the schedules, bringing the BOG hub to more than 200 daily domestic departures.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
Which routes are you referring to? The Fokker 50's are being mostly used to MZL as pretty much every other route has been upgraded to the A318, EJA, NVA for example, IBE is the next city to get A318 service once the apron is expanded as the runway is fully capable of handling the plane.

Well none of those have been entirely upgraded to A318s, they get A318s flights combined with the Fokkers. Also, how economical would it be to fly them to IBE, AV's shortest route from BOG? The plane would be in the air for 20 minutes at most!



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
how economical would it be to fly them to IBE, AV's shortest route from BOG?

I've yet to hear any numbers for the route and the A318 is not a very economical airplane compared to other similar types, it is way too heavy for a 100pax frame, its DOW is 40tons, the E-190 is much much lighter for example.
AV charges a lot for this short hop, so the economics could be there.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The plane would be in the air for 20 minutes at most!

That's mad!, it has to be one of the shortest scheduled flights in a jet in the world! If I remember correctly flight time in the F50 was just under 20 mins, it would be interesting to see what speed they compute the flight plan with, Of course I'm talking about flight time because with the circus clowns we have posing as air traffic controllers in Colombia (the ones in BOG are very unprofessional, even dangerous at times!) the time to taxi from TPA to runway 13R could double or even triple the flight time.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
It would mean a huge increase in the schedules, bringing the BOG hub to more than 200 daily domestic departures.

I also think this would also allow AV entrance into EOH once Aires is out of there, there is a huge market from Olaya Herrera, this is where I think the Q400 (or ATR) will do wonders for the company.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinetroest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12527 times:

Just to add more about the unification of brands in the AviancaTaca Holding. Avianca (and Taca) will introduce a new interior, i guess in their narrow-body fleet. It will be equipped with leather seats and individual screens, have more leg-space and recline both in Business and Economy class. The next A320 delivered to AV will introduce the new features.

LInk only in Spanish: http://www.larepublica.net/app/cms/w...ticulo=5332268


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12516 times:

Quoting troest (Reply 17):
The next A320 delivered to AV will introduce the new features.

There's one already in the fleet with the new interior, N195AV if I'm not mistaken, I had a chance to be in it last week, lots of changes from the other A320's, no bulkheads separating B/C from Y, red and blue led lights in different shades on the ceiling and a few changes in the cockpit as well, different transponder system, no cockpit entrance camera, different exterior lights arrangement.

It's either N195AV or N448AV, both in Star Alliance livery, they're both recent additions to the fleet.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12502 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 16):
I also think this would also allow AV entrance into EOH once Aires is out of there, there is a huge market from Olaya Herrera, this is where I think the Q400 (or ATR) will do wonders for the company.

Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

Nonetheless, if we're talking about 10 extra Q400s; LAN's operation in EOH right now consists of three Q200s with flights to PEI, MTR, APO, UIB and IBE, so the majority will still be going to BOG, maybe one or two to CLO.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12505 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
It's not official, just a rumour for now, but the person I heard it from is very high up the organizational ladder, the part that excites me the most is actually not the airplane supplier, but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying (it's a gold mine!!), it was also mentioned that they're getting ready for the arrival of the "new airplane" and that next year no A330 copilots will transition to the left seat of the A320, they will be going to the left seat of the new turboprop instead.
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

If true, this is, indeed, a very interesting rumor. Replacement regional aircraft alternatives for the F50 fleet have been discussed for ages. One key question involves the TA regional ATR fleet, one would imagine the Q400's would replace those as well.

On a related note, there have been several rumors regarding the fate of the TA E190 fleet as well. Perhaps a fellow member has information regarding these as well...


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12484 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Also, one of the advantages of the Q400 is their very low CASM. They can transport up to 70 pax, but they break even with half that load, bringing the ATR-42/72 commonality to a disadvantage.

Okay, I stand corrected. About flying half empty aircraft because the aircraft breaks even then, I don't think that is what any airline wants. At some point it will cost you but seeing that AV apparently doesn't have many routes that require 50 seats, the Q400 is an option. Now that the Q400 will probably take over some A318 routes where will these A318's be used? Expand to new regional markets? Or was it always the intention of AV to have the A318 for a short time in their fleet?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

I've heard the same from local spotters in MDE that only Satena is allowed to operate larger aircraft to/from EOH because they are government owned. I hope AV is allowed to fly in and out of EOH with their Q400's, in that case I will definately visit EOH again in the future 

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12457 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

I had no idea such restrictions were in place, the only one I knew of was the one that allowed Satena to fly to EOH from BOG, this is definitely something the bean-counters should look into.
I always thought giving Satena the chance to have scheduled services to EOH from BOG was unfair to every other airline out there, but someone told me that it's that very route what keeps them alive.

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
was it always the intention of AV to have the A318 for a short time in their fleet?

It is my understanding that these were to stay in the fleet for a not too long period of time, these were taken up by Avianca because the lessor made them an offer they couldn't refuse, I'm guessing they will be replaced with newer A319's in the future(hopefully with sharklets).



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12410 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
I had no idea such restrictions were in place, the only one I knew of was the one that allowed Satena to fly to EOH from BOG, this is definitely something the bean-counters should look into.

The restriction to 50 seater aircraft is due to the security concerns over the approach and take off in the narrow Aburrá Valley and into the middle of the city, which were the main reason why MDE was built. SATENA was given an exception to fly 70 seaters into the airport, but anything larger has to go to MDE.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
I always thought giving Satena the chance to have scheduled services to EOH from BOG was unfair to every other airline out there, but someone told me that it's that very route what keeps them alive.

It used to be the route that was keeping them alive. One the fierce competition with AIRES began, the government deregulated fares and the airlines flying to MDE started charging $40USD one way to and from BOG, SATENA's inefficient structure suddenly lost it's main subsidy: the prime that passengers flying to EOH would pay for the convenience of flying into the downtown airport. SATENA went through very rough times and the airline had to be restructured, proof of that is that the entire Embraer fleet was replaced by much more fuel efficient ATRs. There is a supposed semi-privatization process going on, but it's been slower than hell.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
It is my understanding that these were to stay in the fleet for a not too long period of time, these were taken up by Avianca because the lessor made them an offer they couldn't refuse,

Avianca's Fokker 100s were falling apart and spares were becoming increasingly expensive. When MX went down suddenly a lot of spare capacity was available and these new-ish A318s with a couple of factory new A320s and some ex-MX A319s were the perfect replacement to the 15-strong F100 fleet, and also provided a little bit of capacity growth.

Edit: Just saw this crazy Avianca fare sale to MAD and BCN from any city in Colombia for $449 USD r/t! That's insane! Great to see these deals, every day it's cheaper to fly to Spain from Colombia. Let's keep it that way.

[Edited 2012-10-12 14:59:31]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12385 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
SATENA went through very rough times and the airline had to be restructured, proof of that is that the entire Embraer fleet was replaced by much more fuel efficient ATRs. There is a supposed semi-privatization process going on, but it's been slower than hell.

In my opinion the government should close down Satena, send all the FAC pilots back to their bases where they belong, let the military pilots stick to what they know, they have no place flying commercial.
Establish some sort of program that will guarantee all the small communities the air service they need, something like they do in the U.S. with the EAS program, I think there are airlines fully capable of handling such contracts, Searca comes to mind, also this would allow smaller airlines to expand under government subsidy and with the amount of cash involved a lot of jobs could be created.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineclo1973 From Colombia, joined Apr 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12314 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Difficult to do since the route has 80% load factor.


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12083 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):

Cool, so this ends my laughs in calling them Grupo CACA. I used to think that of them until I had a very good experience with TACA this past April. They really surprised me with great comfort in the A320s even in Coach class. I'm tall and chubby. Had the leather ones. They had a new plane smell, and the flight attendants were very attentive.

But just a question . . . when will Avinunca finish painting all the TACA planes into AV livery? Heard that AV will undergo a rebranding as well as a change in the livery to mark this occasion of becoming one single name just as United did after merging with Continental. On that note, I wish the new UNITED could see the same wavy gold cheatline on all planes, and not just the 787s. That would make it look real smart.



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12202 times:

Quoting clo1973 (Reply 25):
Difficult to do since the route has 80% load factor.

Well than not even CLO-TCO would have trouble filling up the Q400s. another route that got me thinking was BOG-FLA, but that one seems to be doing really well too and at 1x daily it should have no problem.

Here's a very interesting analysis from CAPA regarding Viva's entry into the Colombia domestic market:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...n-traffic-posts-solid-growth-85110

- June traffic statistics show Viva garnered a 3% market share.
- Their load factors are generally high.
- Avianca and LAN have increased their market shares to 59% and 20% respectively, Copa Colombia continues to loose market share (it lost 5%, which went 2% to AV, 1% to LA and 3% to VC).
- Growth is back to double digits this year.
- Capacity has grown a lot and load factors keep strong, all airlines are over 80%.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11950 times:

BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

http://www.portafolio.co/economia/el...lub-aeropuertos-modernos-del-mundo

As an interesting note in the article, it is mentioned that the master plan for the continued expansion of Bogotá's air traffic capacity will be presented in the coming weeks by the authorities, and that there is land available to grow BOG to a third runway and new terminal space.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11848 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 27):
Here's a very interesting analysis from CAPA regarding Viva's entry into the Colombia domestic market

It's great news that Viva Colombia's plan to get people off buses and put them into airplanes appears to be working, its exactly what Colombia needed given the country's roads resemble that of Europe back in the 1800's.

They must have like 4 A320's now right?

I hope they continue to grow strong, I think in the end people will choose to get on an airplane for a few bucks more for a one hour flight than get stuck on the road for 14-15hrs just to get to a place like CTG, the only thing I'm not so sure about is them being based in MDE.

One other thing that needs to be addressed is Airports and ATC infrastructure, with sustained growth in the double digits for a couple more years the system will simply collapse and soon we won't be able to get anywhere using ground or air transportation.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
continued expansion of Bogota's air traffic capacity will be presented in the coming weeks

I think the the capacity and the need to grow are there, the technology already exists, the willingness of the air traffic controllers I'm not so sure, what I have experienced in the past few days shows a total lack of commitment to make the system run a little smoother, you can't beat up the system repeatedly and expect it to be there and work for you when you need it.
Government action is needed to make these people work for the airlines not against them.



[Edited 2012-10-17 20:52:54]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11755 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

Too bad I missed it as I was flying in and out of BOG several times between June and September!!! Does anyone know if the new terminal building will have a public spotting terrace where you can eat and take aircraft photos? That would be soo nice!!!

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11703 times:

To those whom it may interest:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...portugal-tap-idUSBRE89H0X520121018

Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
It's great news that Viva Colombia's plan to get people off buses and put them into airplanes appears to be working, its exactly what Colombia needed given the country's roads resemble that of Europe back in the 1800's.

Indeed.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
They must have like 4 A320's now right?

Yes, a 5th one is expected before year's end.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
the only thing I'm not so sure about is them being based in MDE.

Well MDE has proven to have limited demand. While routes like BOG, CTG and BAQ have been doing amazing, the more "adventurous" routes which pretended to steal business pax out of the EOH-based carriers haven't been working well (PEI was pulled, BGA and MTR are doing mediocre). I'm sure there is still some more room for growth out of Medellín, but the airline will need to find other bases if it plans to continue it's expansion (again, even if I get blasted by Medellín based users, a BOG base will be essential at one point if they really want to catch a large slice of the market).

[Edited 2012-10-18 13:04:01]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11659 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP. This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.
But for the airline it will mean that its LIS hub will be safe and could be better used in the future for more flights to South America, connecting with Europe.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Well MDE has proven to have limited demand.

I would not be so hasty in reading it like that. When a route like MDE-CTG goes from 150 seats a day (3 x F50s), and on introduction of competition is goes to over 1000 seats with 9 x A32X, you cannot say that it has "limited demand". Demand is finite everywhere, but Viva is after the routes that have unlocked potential.

That is not to say that every route will work, as the models don't take into account every circumstance,, an that VIva itself has not made mistakes: On the MDE-PEI -which is usually like 4 hours by road- is not so appealing for those willing to swap the bus for the plane, as they had to be 4 hours in advance at the airport, plus the trip there, meant they were better off going overland. The other issue is the competition from EOH. There is clearly an established market that uses the handy city airport on routes such as PEI, MTR and BGA, whereas there will be many people who will need further persuading to make the move from bus to plane.

Of course, BOG will also see some routes as Viva expands -assuming they can get slots, but its target is mainly thin routes with potential. An interesting point will be when Viva can launch international routes from different colombian cities.



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

A great improvement on the current terminal. For me the best news is that the President promised the funds to make sure that the city transport (Trasnmilenio) can go all the way to the airport.
This is something that had not been properly planned (amazing for a city that championed that form of transport!), but I am glad that it will materialise.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11606 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.

Agree. But this is Efromovich's specialty, buying cheap, practically non viable companies and turning them around. It's how he made his fortune. There is also the issue of european labor and business laws which are absurdly unfriendly to investors, so let's wait and see.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP.

Indeed. This could be the first time a latin airline group actually controls a european carrier. Interesting times ahead. Of course, if TP's unions don't push hard enough so that the government decides not to sell. It would be stupid to do so though, as Germany probably wouldn't love it.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
When a route like MDE-CTG goes from 150 seats a day (3 x F50s), and on introduction of competition is goes to over 1000 seats with 9 x A32X, you cannot say that it has "limited demand".

Load factors are high, but yields have been absolutely trashed. We'll see how much longer AV is going to sustain the 7 daily A318/A320 combo on the route. There was indeed need of new capacity, but what is going on right now is called flooding.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
I would not be so hasty in reading it like that.

We have been able to find a limit to the demand out of Medellín, and it clearly is the secondary cities that are not Cali or on the coast cannot yet sustain daily 190 seat jet service with good loads. Although the case of PEI is true, BGA, a city with arguably more demand than PEI (almost twice the population and a bigger economy), plus much further from MDE isn't doing well either. The market has to mature too, and I'm sure in the future there might be more stimulation and demand will be created as the country's economy grows, but right now it just isn't there. It's not something bad, but VC clearly won't be able to grow after a certain point if they keep basing their aircraft in MDE, as they probably wouldn't find demand for 60 A320s based out of BOG.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Of course, BOG will also see some routes as Viva expands -assuming they can get slots, but its target is mainly thin routes with potential.

Slots at BOG won't be so hard to get come tomorrow, and specially after the summer of 2014, when arguably Viva will have reached a stage where it is stable and making enough money to compete out of BOG with the majors Time will tell.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
A great improvement on the current terminal. For me the best news is that the President promised the funds to make sure that the city transport (Trasnmilenio) can go all the way to the airport.

That and the fact that the new master plan for further expansion of the facility will be presented in the coming weeks.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11514 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 33):
Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.

Agree. But this is Efromovich's specialty, buying cheap, practically non viable companies and turning them around. It's how he made his fortune. There is also the issue of european labor and business laws which are absurdly unfriendly to investors, so let's wait and see.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP.

Indeed. This could be the first time a latin airline group actually controls a european carrier. Interesting times ahead. Of course, if TP's unions don't push hard enough so that the government decides not to sell. It would be stupid to do so though, as Germany probably wouldn't love it.

Interesting news and I've said it before, I see Mr. Efromovich taking over TP and as has been said before "everything he touches, turns into gold"  Seeing that the EU is different and apparently tougher to crack, let's see how Mr. Efromovich will do. After all, he is part European too...  

A388


User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days ago) and read 11263 times:

It appears that Aires has received another A320, it's parked over at the engine run test area close to the threshold of runway 13R, it is CC registered with Colombian flags but I couldn't see clearly from my position, it had engine and pitot tube covers on, the interesting thing about this one is it has CFM engines, I think all of Aires's airbus up to now have IAE engines, I could be wrong.

The rumour on Avianca getting Q400's also appears to be gathering strength, allegedly a few days ago a team of BBD engineers, pilots and a topographic survey team along with a team from Avianca of the same makeup headed to MZL to take a look and see what could be done, a couple of friends who headed there that day told me they were doing measurements as the wheelbase of the Q400 is a tad too wide for MZL's runway and taxiways (runway 15m, taxiways10m), they were also measuring or rather updating the runway slope (5,28% if I'm not mistaken) to see if it could work with the Q400, with the planes length and it being so close to the ground its gotta have some sort of restriction or a very shallow nose up angle limit before a tail strike occurs (something like the B739), this is usually fixed with higher V speeds but with MZL's 1000m runway that is not something you can afford, one other thing on their minds was the minimum runway width for a 180 degree turn, it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

G. Efromovich has a thing for taking bankrupt companies and turning them to profitable ones, sort of like waking up the dead if you know what I mean, I think even with TAP's huge debt the possibilities to turn the company around are there, as I understand they have flights from Portugal to eight different points in Brazil, the possibilities are endless, and all this just before the FIFA World Cup and the Olympic Games, this guy definitely sees more in TAP than meets the eye.

[Edited 2012-10-22 07:21:25]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 36, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days ago) and read 11270 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

G. Efromovich has a thing for taking bankrupt companies and turning the to profitable ones, sort of like waking up the dead if you know what I mean, I think even with TAP's huge debt the possibilities to turn the company around are there, as I understand they have flights from Portugal to eight different points in Brazil, the possibilities are endless, and all this just before the FIFA World Cup and the Olympic Games, this guy definitely sees more in TAP than meets the eye.

That is definately true. In the past I've seen a photo of a scale model of an Ocean Air 787, will some of the 787's AV ordered go to AV Brasil?


By the way, has any aircraft spotter visited the new terminal building in BOG? How is it? Is it great for aircraft photography?

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 37, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11110 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 36):
That is definately true. In the past I've seen a photo of a scale model of an Ocean Air 787, will some of the 787's AV ordered go to AV Brasil?

No. They're all intended for AviancaTaca. The A350s though are Synergy orders.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
The rumour on Avianca getting Q400's also appears to be gathering strength, allegedly a few days ago a team of BBD engineers, pilots and a topographic survey team along with a team from Avianca of the same makeup headed to MZL to take a look and see what could be done

Well this means three things, two good, one very bad:

1. BBD is very committed to getting the Q400 order from AV.
2. AV is committed to keep serving the city of Manizales for the long term.
3. Both companies know that the new MZL airport is never going to be ready in the 2014 frame they're saying, and it's possible it never will. It's probably going to become a white elephant and another case of extreme corruption and institutional weakness of the colombian state, which is very sad.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
as the wheelbase of the Q400 is a tad too wide for MZL's runway and taxiways (runway 15m, taxiways10m)
Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
rather updating the runway slope (5,28% if I'm not mistaken) to see if it could work with the Q400

La Nubia airport is basically a piece of crap.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
but with MZL's 1000m runway that is not something you can afford

Correction, the runway there is 1400m long. It's the altitude (2000m above sea level) that limits the aircraft's performance. With a 1000m runway only very small aircraft would be able to take off from there, as it used to happen until the early 1990s when the extension was carried out.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10998 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
Both companies know that the new MZL airport is never going to be ready in the 2014 frame they're saying, and it's possible it never will. It's probably going to become a white elephant and another case of extreme corruption and institutional weakness of the Colombian state, which is very sad

Sad indeed as I think the Palestina airport will not happen, at least not for the next ten years or so. Extreme corruption is present everywhere in Colombia  
A Vor is being installed at the airport, somehow the fools at Aerocivil think this is going to improve the airports operational capabilities. For some reason they keep investing (or wasting) money on this little airport which you have described perfectly, It is a piece of Crap.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
Correction, the runway there is 1400m long.
http://portal.aerocivil.gov.co/porta...ob_page.show?_docname=25809767.PDF

I'd like to respectfuly dispute your claim, look under "Distancias Declaradas", it states the runway is 1000m and this document is from Sept/2011, of course it would not surprise me even a little if they did work to make the runway 1400m long back in 1990 and never bothered to update the AIP during all these years, that's our sad little Aerocivil, the know-it-alls of our skies.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineav757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10968 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yesterday afternoon on October 22, A330-243 N279AV c/n1279 was ferried from SKRG to SPIM to be delivered to Taca-Peru. It was repainted in the white Star Alliance livery.

Regards
AV757


User currently offlineStandby87 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 536 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Hi, Hola

Does anyone know anything about Emirates plans to fly to Bogota from Dubai?
It must be 4 years ago that I read that Colombia and the UAE signed a flight deal, but since then absolutely nothing  

It would be amazing because it would be the 4th longest route in the world, but somehow I can't see it happening  


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 41, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10875 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 38):
I'd like to respectfuly dispute your claim, look under "Distancias Declaradas", it states the runway is 1000m and this document is from Sept/2011, of course it would not surprise me even a little if they did work to make the runway 1400m long back in 1990 and never bothered to update the AIP during all these years, that's our sad little Aerocivil, the know-it-alls of our skies.

Well that must be exactly what happened. A 1000m runway doesn't even allow any aircraft larger than a Dash-Q200/300 to take off, at any altitude. Back in the day ACES was tired of having to fly Twin Otters multiple times per hour of the BOG-MZL route and extended the runway to 1400 meters so that their ATR-42s could land there. After that, Avianca's Fokker 50s started operating as well.

Quoting Standby87 (Reply 40):
Does anyone know anything about Emirates plans to fly to Bogota from Dubai?
It must be 4 years ago that I read that Colombia and the UAE signed a flight deal, but since then absolutely nothing

It won't happen as a non-stop flight, most likely with a BOG-CCS-DXB routing, but if things don't get better with the venezuelan economy, I just don't see it materializing.

On other news, colombia LCC VivaColombia are updating their BOG-MDE-BOG schedules to offer more frequency come november. As of now there is one daily flight on the route with excellent load factors, schedule will be as follows:

Mo, Tu, We, Th 3 flights
Fri 4 flights
Sat, Sun 2 flights

Their 5th A320 is already doing flight tests in Dublin.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 42, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10708 times:

AV is expanding flights, most destinations are known but apparently additional capacity to MIA is being added:

http://colombiareports.com/travel-in...avianca-to-expand-its-network.html

AVTA carried 13.2% more passengers in the first nine months of 2012 than they did in the same period of 2011:

http://www.financialpost.com/markets...re+Than+Million/7432987/story.html

[Edited 2012-10-24 15:26:39]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineclo1973 From Colombia, joined Apr 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10617 times:

Yesterday Aerogal started its operation GYE-CLO-GYE, load factor of first flight was 91% and 95 out of the 110 people aboard were heading to MAD (GYE-CLO-GYE allows connections to MAD and MIA).

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 44, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10471 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 42):
additional capacity to MIA is being added:

This will be the new adjusted schedule to MIA from BOG by Avianca, with the third flight on the mid-day bank and the afternoon flight adjusted to better fit into the night bank and a change of equipment to A319, it will operate like this from december 16th:

dep arr freq aircraft flight #

10:20 BOG 14:00 MIA A330 AV6
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4
21:30 BOG 1:00+1 MIA A319 AV8

04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9
16:00 MIA 19:30 BOG A330 AV7

Quoting clo1973 (Reply 43):
Yesterday Aerogal started its operation GYE-CLO-GYE, load factor of first flight was 91% and 95 out of the 110 people aboard were heading to MAD (GYE-CLO-GYE allows connections to MAD and MIA).

Well isn't that something, I had no idea that Tame was going to start the route. It will surely be a terrific feeder to the MAD flights out of CLO. And all done via interline agreements.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 45, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
10:20 BOG 14:00 MIA A330 AV6
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4
21:30 BOG 1:00+1 MIA A319 AV8

04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9
16:00 MIA 19:30 BOG A330 AV7

I am quite surprised that the 18:00 arrival is not turning around same night, in my opinion they should put a 4rd flight and downgrade the a330 to an a319 as well



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 46, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10412 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 45):
I am quite surprised that the 18:00 arrival is not turning around same night, in my opinion they should put a 4rd flight and downgrade the a330 to an a319 as well

I think a fourth flight would be unnecessary and less economical, plus due to the amount of J class pax on this route the A330 is needed for the morning flight.

What they could do to use the aircraft more efficiently is add a new destination in Colombia from MIA, preferably PEI, which has been screaming for it.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10305 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4

I'm taking this flight in 2 months. Nice schedule, that allow an a not-so-late arrival to MIA. Something similar to what AA has.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9

For some reason, AV sold this flight departing at 6:00 am, or something like that. Then it was moved to 9am.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10255 times:

I guess the Q400 is getting closer to becoming a reality, this was a test of the runway only, they didn't taxi onto the apron, no problem executing the 180* turn on runway 28 either, sorry if it had already been posted.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=jIKAp...top_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjIKAp3Gu3GE

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4

Finally!!!! The AV004 that was reserved as an additional flight number in the past is now a regular, that's great news, Clearly the A330 in the morning and the A319/20 in the early evening wasn't enough capacity.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5

Wow!! That's awfully early, I guess it's great for the passengers but it's gonna be really tough on the crew. Oh well.……

[Edited 2012-10-26 12:31:16]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10226 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 48):
I guess the Q400 is getting closer to becoming a reality, this was a test of the runway only, they didn't taxi onto the apron, no problem executing the 180* turn on runway 28 either, sorry if it had already been posted.

Yes, the tests in Manizales went well. There will be taxiway and ramp extensions to be made, but if Bombardier is willing to assume the cost, well then I think we have a winner.

The Q400 is a cool plane, welcome addition to the fleet!

Quoting trent772 (Reply 48):
Clearly the A330 in the morning and the A319/20 in the early evening wasn't enough capacity.

It was a daily A320 on the second flight, but indeed capacity went from 400 to 490 daily seats.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 10045 times:

Here's the announcement from AV about the frequency increases:

http://www.avianca.com/NR/rdonlyres/...8AVincrementafrecuencias241012.pdf

The international operation from the BOG hub will look like this from december:

CCS 3x daily (A319, A319, A330)
VLN 1x daily (A319/20)
AUA 1x daily (A320)
CUR 1x daily (A318/19/20)
PTY 3x daily (A319, A320, A319)
SJO 18x weekly (A320/E190, A318, A319)
SAL 2x daily (A320, E190)
MEX 3x daily (A320, A320, A319)
MIA 3x daily (A330, A319, A319)
FLL 1x daily (A320)
MCO 1x daily (A319)
IAD 1x daily (A319)
JFK 2x daily (A330, A319)
HAV 4x weekly (A319)
SDQ 1x daily (A319)
PUJ 4x weekly (A320)
GRU 2x daily (A319/30, A330)
GIG 1x daily (A319)
BSB 4x weekly (A319)
EZE 4x weekly (A330)
LPB 1x daily (A319)
LIM 4x daily (A330, A319, A319, A320)
UIO 4x daily (A320, A320, A320, A320)
GYE 2x daily (A319, A320)
SCL 1x daily (A330)
BCN 4x weekly (A330)
MAD 10x weekly (A330)

On other news, Tiara Air has started flying to MDE and AXM to AUA 2x a week using a triangular routing, using their recently acquired 737-300:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...ntre-aruba-armenia-y-medellin.html



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9783 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 50):
BSB 4x weekly (A319)

That's really interesting, any ideas on the times of the day it will operate? This would be Avianca's third destination in Brazil, maybe Manaus will be the next? Or maybe Salvador (to connect with TAP), Fortaleza or Belo Horizonte?  


Will all the flights you posted be operated by Avianca or will they be operated by other airlines in the holding?.
I hope Avianca returns to UIO, I also heard something about a fifth frequency to EZE but nothing concrete, have you heard anything regarding this matter?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9833 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 50):
AUA 1x daily (A320)
CUR 1x daily (A318/19/20)

Great news but I thaught CUR was performing better than AUA. Still AUA gets the A320 while CUR gets a combination of A320/319/318?

A388


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
That's really interesting, any ideas on the times of the day it will operate? This would be Avianca's third destination in Brazil, maybe Manaus will be the next?

BSB has been operational for a few months now. It's a Taca flight that originates in SJO and continues to BSB, timed to get connecting traffic.
Not great loads at the moment for what I understand, though.


User currently offlinecolinatl From Colombia, joined Jul 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9814 times:

Can anyone comment on how operations are going at the new Bogota terminal building?

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9799 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
This would be Avianca's third destination in Brazil,

I think this is the flight operated by TA that starts in SJO.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
I also heard something about a fifth frequency to EZE but nothing concrete, have you heard anything regarding this matter?

Isn't the bilateral already to its max?? I don't think the kirchner edministration would let any more competition to its precious AR.
I was looking for tickets EZE-BRC for their upcoming winter, and I still can't believe they charge US700 for that sole ticket, and US900 if I buy it all the way from BOG.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 50):
LPB 1x daily (A319)

That's a nice surprise. I wonder how much of hte flight is coneecting traffic.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 50):
MCO 1x daily (A319)

Long due. This flight is always doing good, and yields seem to be good for AV.


I'm still waiting for LA to replace its second MIA flight from BOG. Why have taken them so long to announce more competition to N. America?? The only interesting route is GRU, but nothing else really.



777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9782 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 55):
That's a nice surprise. I wonder how much of hte flight is coneecting traffic.

I heard that much of the traffic (75%+) is connecting with IAD

Quoting summa767 (Reply 53):
It's a Taca flight that originates in SJO and continues to BSB, timed to get connecting traffic.

  I thought Avianca was starting its own flight.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9687 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
That's really interesting, any ideas on the times of the day it will operate? This would be Avianca's third destination in Brazil, maybe Manaus will be the next? Or maybe Salvador (to connect with TAP), Fortaleza or Belo Horizonte?

It´s been operated by TA for months now. The bilateral frequencies on the colombian side are maxed out already.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
Will all the flights you posted be operated by Avianca or will they be operated by other airlines in the holding?.

Some by TA (1-2 SJO, 1 SAL, 2 LIM freqs, BSB), some by Aerogal (UIO and 1 GYE flight).

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
I hope Avianca returns to UIO,

Why? In less than a year all of the flights will be branded Avianca so who cares? If it's cheaper to operate the flights with the ecuadorian subsidiary then business is business.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 51):
I also heard something about a fifth frequency to EZE but nothing concrete, have you heard anything regarding this matter?

Not gonna happen. AR's boss talked about adding a 5th frequency to BOG some months ago but the bilateral hasn't been modified.

Quoting A388 (Reply 52):
Great news but I thaught CUR was performing better than AUA. Still AUA gets the A320 while CUR gets a combination of A320/319/318?

I have no idea which of the islands performs better as of today, but historically AUA has always been the station with more traffic.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 53):
Not great loads at the moment for what I understand, though.

Something around the high 50%s. Still better than the dismal loads the flights to LIM had, even with an E190. LEt's give the route some months to adjust, also the brand unification should help for marketing purposes.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 56):
I heard that much of the traffic (75%+) is connecting with IAD

I think that might be a little bit too much. Maybe 75% of all connecting traffic on the flight is going to IAD. But BOG already supported 5 weekly IAD flights without LPB, so I don't think that suddenly 75% of the traffic on the IAD route is exclusively coming form La Paz. I've heard there's substantial connections to Spain and the usual andean destinations too.

On other news, LAN Colombia is doing new network cuts, one of the three frequencies form BOG to EYP is getting cut (which leaves them with 2 flights a day) and it appears that the UIB-EOH route is getting the axe too.

[Edited 2012-10-29 15:48:17]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9619 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 57):
Why? In less than a year all of the flights will be branded Avianca so who cares? If it's cheaper to operate the flights with the Ecuadorian subsidiary then business is business.

Well…. I do, I have family there, so it would be great for me if AV restarted flights to UIO.

How do you figure its cheaper to operate the flights with the Ecuadorian subsidiary that with their Colombian counterparts?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 57):
I think that might be a little bit too much.

On the 14th of this month flight 287 (IAD-BOG) was delayed for a little over an hour, the reason? We had to wait for 48 connections all going to LPB, when I asked the station manager he said that the number of connections to LPB was steady at 50ish along with more headed to LIM, he did mention the fact that the biggest number of Bolivians in the US lives in and around the D.C. area.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9464 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 58):
Well…. I do, I have family there, so it would be great for me if AV restarted flights to UIO.

Again, why? It's basically the same product on Aerogal and it will be the exact same product and brand once the integration is finished by the end of next year.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 58):
How do you figure its cheaper to operate the flights with the Ecuadorian subsidiary that with their Colombian counterparts?

Because they're using Aerogal to operate most of their international flights out of Ecuador. They wouldn't operate the flights as Aerogal if they found it costlier than to keep on operating as Avianca.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 58):
hen I asked the station manager he said that the number of connections to LPB was steady at 50ish along with more headed to LIM, he did mention the fact that the biggest number of Bolivians in the US lives in and around the D.C. area.

Well, 50ish is passengers is not 75% of the flight's load on a plane that has 120 seats andon a flight that is usually very full, not to mention information from station managers is never that accurate. Again, it could be that either 75% of the flight is connecting passengers or that 74% of connecting passengers come from LPB, which are entirely plausible propositions. No one said passengers from La Paz are not a big component of the connecting passengers to IAD, in fact they're essential for the current performance of the flight and especially since AV is their only other option to travel there next to AA, but they're NOT 75% of the passengers on every flight. What you said was disproportionate.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9409 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 59):
Again, why?

Again, I have family there, but I'm not gonna discuss it, at least not with you.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 59):
They wouldn't operate the flights as Aerogal if they found it costlier than to keep on operating as Avianca.

Where did you get the information that it was costlier to fly Avianca to UIO than to fly AeroGal to BOG?

Back when a majority stake in AeroGal was acquired by AV, the flights to BOG from UIO were awarded to 2K because AV needed the newly acquired Airbuses to open up new routes or strengthen existing ones, so AeroGal started with their old 732's and with the Ecuadorian Government subsidy on fuel that was in place at the time offset the higher costs 2K had for the route. 2K now has A32S equipment and the fuel subsidy is gone. It was never about costs, it was about equipment availability and with newly acquired B732's the airbuses were put to better use on longer routes where the airplane made more sense and had more impact on customers, after all back then AV had a little or no competition on the UIO route so new equipment could wait, and this is from the VP of Flight Operations himself but I'm sure you'll find a way to pick the statement apart and impose your knowledge on the matter.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 59):
not to mention information from station managers is never that accurate.

Yeah, they don't know crap, they only handle every passenger that goes in and out of the airplane's door, and with a small outpost that handles only one flight a day like IAD I'd say their information is accurate, and he wasn't some lame gate agent, it was the station manager, but what do I know? I'm sure you have much more accurate information  



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9364 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 57):
Something around the high 50%s. Still better than the dismal loads the flights to LIM had, even with an E190

Where do your figures come from?
I actually make it to be 39% up to Aug from the Aerocivil's stats, which would qualify as dismal for the length of the flight.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 56):
I heard that much of the traffic (75%+) is connecting with IAD

I can totally believe that. Even before LPB, that flight relied heavily on LIM traffic. If LPB is adding 50 pax more, no wonder its going up to daily.


User currently offlineCRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9352 times:

SJO 18x weekly (A320/E190, A318, A319)???

Really? Since when? On SABRE there are just two daily flights, one operated by LR (which most of the days continues to BSB), and the other one which is a mixed between a LR A319 and AV A318.



With Age comes Wisdom...
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 60):
Again, I have family there, but I'm not gonna discuss it, at least not with you.

Ok, let's first take some time to read what I wrote. I'm not going against the fact that you have family there (which is irrelevant to the argument i'm posting, as i'm not questioning the reasons why you travel there). I'm saying it's the SAME product and thus there shouldn't be a difference in your experience as a passenger. Another thing would be that you had some kind of whim that you want to fly the planes of the airline registered in Colombia, which wouldn't be rational.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 60):
Back when a majority stake in AeroGal was acquired by AV, the flights to BOG from UIO were awarded to 2K because AV needed the newly acquired Airbuses to open up new routes or strengthen existing ones, so AeroGal started with their old 732's and with the Ecuadorian Government subsidy on fuel that was in place at the time offset the higher costs 2K had for the route. 2K now has A32S equipment and the fuel subsidy is gone. It was never about costs, it was about equipment availability and with newly acquired B732's the airbuses were put to better use on longer routes where the airplane made more sense and had more impact on customers, after all back then AV had a little or no competition on the UIO route so new equipment could wait, and this is from the VP of Flight Operations himself but I'm sure you'll find a way to pick the statement apart and impose your knowledge on the matter.

Yes, you're giving me the reason, that is information known by everybody. It all started because Avianca didn't have enough equipment back then and the fuel subsidy made it cheaper to operate the flights with Aerogal (who got the subsidy only because they started replacing their fleet with the airbuses, only did they entirely replace AV when they could exclusively send the 20s on the route), and now it is still more profitable for them to send their own airbuses on the trunk domestic routes and the longer international ones rather than fly them to Ecuador, so if you do a little analyzing instead of counter attacking, we're actually on the same page, it saves them money to fly 2K's fleet into Ecuador rather than flying their own, because their own is more profitable on other routes.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 60):
Yeah, they don't know crap, they only handle every passenger that goes in and out of the airplane's door, and with a small outpost that handles only one flight a day like IAD I'd say their information is accurate, and he wasn't some lame gate agent, it was the station manager, but what do I know? I'm sure you have much more accurate information

Ok, suit yourself. I agree that he has a lot of knowledge as to how many pax go to LPB every day, but I assure you he can't give you detailed information about the percentage of LPB pax that make up every flight, as it is hard to exactly remember loads factors day after day, so the info will not be completely accurate. It's something like asking a flight attendant which new routes they know are going to be launched.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 61):
Where do your figures come from?
I actually make it to be 39% up to Aug from the Aerocivil's stats, which would qualify as dismal for the length of the flight.

They're actually from one specific month but august figures do look terrible oh my. What's sad is that they're still carrying more pax than the 31% load factors the E190 had out of LIM. The route must be very high yielding or carry a lot of cargo for them to keep it around for so long. I think that the Brasilia market is just not mature enough for traffic to latin america and relies heavily on US bound passengers which are being covered by AA and DL.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 61):
I can totally believe that. Even before LPB, that flight relied heavily on LIM traffic. If LPB is adding 50 pax more, no wonder its going up to daily.

75% of the pax on every IAD flight coming from LPB? No way. Maybe 45-50%, but 75% just doesn't add up.

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 62):
Really? Since when? On SABRE there are just two daily flights, one operated by LR (which most of the days continues to BSB), and the other one which is a mixed between a LR A319 and AV A318.

I had the idea that the SJO-BOG-BSB flight was an extra but now seeing the reservation systems there are indeed only two flights. So does that mean that the A319 stays in BOG for around 12 hours three days of the week?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9273 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
which wouldn't be rational.

In a normal world yes. But not in a.net!!!!! 
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
Maybe 45-50%, but 75% just doesn't add up.

Anyway, if 45-50% of LPB pax feed the IAD flight, that's a huge number. The IAD route is becomng more interesting for a future upgrade of capacity, probably when the 320NEOs start arriving. I see a lot of potential in that route, specially when in comes to connecting 2 alliance hubs.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9258 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 64):
Anyway, if 45-50% of LPB pax feed the IAD flight, that's a huge number.

Indeed. As I said before the feed from LPB is essential to the operation of IAD.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 64):
I see a lot of potential in that route, specially when in comes to connecting 2 alliance hubs.

Indeed. It wouldn't surprise me if it went 2x daily in the mid term. ORD should be looked at too, specially since the colombian community there is larger than around Washington D.C.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9252 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
75% of the pax on every IAD flight coming from LPB? No way. Maybe 45-50%, but 75% just doesn't add up.

75% connecting traffic, not just LPB makes sense. No one has mentioned that *all* the connections are LPB, just that its usual to have around 50 pax on every flight out of a usual 75% connections that make up the flight. Another important connection is LIM, without a doubt. It was before LPB, which has gone to top.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 63):
They're actually from one specific month but august figures do look terrible oh my

Actually, 39% is the average up to August, with August itself 38%.
I guess that even if its not profitable, they would want to give it time.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9164 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 66):
75% connecting traffic, not just LPB makes sense.

Indeed.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 66):
No one has mentioned that *all* the connections are LPB, just that its usual to have around 50 pax on every flight out of a usual 75% connections that make up the flight.

Indeed, but what I was actually arguing about was this,

Quoting trent772 (Reply 56):
I heard that much of the traffic (75%+) is connecting with IAD


That 75% of ALL pax on the IAD flight were coming from LPB, which is preposterous. (Taken form the fact that both flights are operated by the same A319 with similar loads).

[Edited 2012-10-31 16:09:54]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9161 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 41):
It won't happen as a non-stop flight, most likely with a BOG-CCS-DXB routing, but if things don't get better with the venezuelan economy, I just don't see it materializing.

Never say never. For a start the Gulf carriers are not very keen on tag-on sectors. If started, this would be an ULH either way with the Venezuela stopover or not. My intuition tells me they would operate a non-stop service. The problem of the range would be easily solved with a 77L equipment which both carriers EK Emirates and EY Etihad operate. The bilateral signed was between countries, not to designated carriers, so either or them could operate the AUH / DXB - BOG route. The problem would more likely be payload restrictions ex-BOG and once again this can be mostly overcome by deploying the A345 which remarkably both carriers have in their fleets -although underutilized on missions in the case of Emirates. The most likely problem would be market awareness and volumes. But a descent 3-4 week rotations a week would cater well for the Colombian traffic traveling to Japan, Mainland China as well as HKG, S.E. Asia and even I would dare say Australia. I for once believe in the feasibility of this route as a stand alone operation.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 46):
What they could do to use the aircraft more efficiently is add a new destination in Colombia from MIA, preferably PEI, which has been screaming for it

The connection via CTG was a welcome add-on to the route but it was mainly the convenience for traffic originating in Pereira PEI. The fares were rocket high in most cases but the alternatives via BOG were no better. A return of this service would be more than welcome



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 68):
Never say never. For a start the Gulf carriers are not very keen on tag-on sectors.

Well EK do fly tag-ons from BKK, SYD and MEL to HKG, AKL and I think CHC, and form GIG to EZE and QR flies from GRU to EZE. The fact that neither BOG nor CCS currently have the demand to support a daily to DXB has to be taken into account too, with BOG's altitude limitations.

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 68):
The problem would more likely be payload restrictions ex-BOG and once again this can be mostly overcome by deploying the A345

Indeed, I think the only aircraft able to operate the route non-stop without significant payload restrictions would be the A345. But it is a VERY long flight so I wouldn't even know if taking winds and other operaiton issues into account it could make it.

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 68):
The most likely problem would be market awareness and volumes. But a descent 3-4 week rotations a week would cater well for the Colombian traffic traveling to Japan, Mainland China as well as HKG, S.E. Asia and even I would dare say Australia.

Cargo is also a big opportunity. And traffic to Asia (the countries you mentioned plus South Korea) is steadily increasing (ask AF, UA, DL and LH), but with those also competing for the pax it doesn't seem so viable for the upcoming years. It will probably happen in the future, just not in the near-term.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 66):
Actually, 39% is the average up to August, with August itself 38%.

I was just thinking, now that there is an appropriate arrival time from MIA for the inbound connection to BSB, this could really help the flights loads from december. We'll wait and see.

Edit: BSB note

[Edited 2012-10-31 18:37:36]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 69):
Well EK do fly tag-ons from BKK, SYD and MEL to HKG, AKL and I think CHC, and form GIG to EZE and QR flies from GRU to EZE. The fact that neither BOG nor CCS currently have the demand to support a daily to DXB has to be taken into account too, with BOG's altitude limitations

True, I couldn't agree more, but these tag-ons are imposed by range restrictions. DXB to NZ is outside the range envelope. The BKK case which I have flown myself is a special case. They serve HKG separately from DXB directly, but also serve it via BKK on the A380, the only reason being the large amount of traffic between Hong Kong and Thailand. The 380 empties on arrival from HKG and thru traffic is almost non-exitent. BKK is the most important route on their network in terms of volume. A mini hub spin-off from mainline operations runs there taking advantage of 5th freedom rights. Again I think the problem in DXB-BOG is the lack of brand awareness in the market at the moments, and the critical volume to start running operations. Even Qatar's Mr. Al-baker has expressed his intention of having at least 5 Latin American destination on his Network by 2015. Would this one be his list of choice:

GRU
EZE
MEX
SCL
BOG
???



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8992 times:

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 70):
Would this one be his list of choice:

GRU
EZE
MEX
SCL
BOG
???

I would put LIM on the list of candidates. But for the short term, I think we'll have to wait a while before we see any M/E metal in BOG.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

So Jetblue's 1st flight from JFK to CTG took place in spite of Sandy's recent stumble upon New York. Congrats to them on this new flight.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 71):
I would put LIM on the list of candidates. But for the short term, I think we'll have to wait a while before we see any M/E metal in BOG.

Agree.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
Well isn't that something, I had no idea that Tame was going to start the route. It will surely be a terrific feeder to the MAD flights out of CLO. And all done via interline agreements.

God I just read this and realized it was an Aerogal flight...anyways it should be a strong performer...

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 70):
Even Qatar's Mr. Al-baker has expressed his intention of having at least 5 Latin American destination on his Network by 2015. Would this one be his list of choice:

How's the bilateral with Qatar? Anyone know? I know there are 28 weekly frequencies with the UAE (something like 14 pax, 7 mixed, 7 cargo).

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 70):
Again I think the problem in DXB-BOG is the lack of brand awareness in the market at the moments, and the critical volume to start running operations.

Yes. But the lack of brand awareness can be solved. The other issue really is as you say the amount of demand to justify what would be one of the world's longest flights with operational limitations. Is there enough people in Bogotá that will pay the extra price that covers the cost of not being able to carry cargo or limiting the passenger count sometimes? Would they be able to effectively compete with the european carriers on funneling passengers to Asia, who's costs one would assume could be lower, at least on the operational side, since their aircraft wouldn't be nearly as limited due to the shorter flight times? Also, aren't the A340-500s kind of an oddball in the EK fleet and probably on their way out soon? That said, would a 77L be able to operate the route?

A lot of questions can be raised.

Personally, I would love to have EK or QR in BOG (to be realistic, BOG could only sustain one of them at the time being), but there are many challenges.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 72):
Jetblue's 1st flight from JFK to CTG took place

Had the chance to be there, lots of people on the ramp taking pictures, it looked to be a flight with a decent load, maybe not all of them were fare paying pax?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 72):
aren't the A340-500s kind of an oddball in the EK fleet

They seem to be but the four engine airplane has far less weight and performance restrictions out of a high altitude airport with surrounding terrain than a twin does, I think the A345 would be a great performer out of BOG.

[Edited 2012-11-05 21:01:37]


Pedaling Squares…
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8755 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 73):
maybe not all of them were fare paying pax?

You can bet on it. Probably lots of tourism and B6 executives.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8750 times:

Five of AV's A318's will be given an increase in MTOW and Thrust, from 64,5t to 68t MTOW and from 21.700lbs to 23,600lbs of thrust at TOGA.

this is a nice change allowing the airplanes to fly longer routes during low season, NYC maybe?



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

Maybe ORD or not enough legs?


Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 72):
Also, aren't the A340-500s kind of an oddball in the EK fleet and probably on their way out soon? That said, would a 77L be able to operate the route?


They are planned for retirement along with the A340-300 and the 77E early models, but they will still be around for a while yet. At least a couple more years. But remember Emirates is not the only UAE A345 operator, just the most famous. Etihad also operates them on a regular basis on their Chicago, Sydney and JFK runs. It is a rare spot at LHR once and then too. Etihad had plans to divest them but once again opted to keep them for another while (If I am not mistaken they were in early stages of negotiations with the Venezuelan government to transfer them to Conviasa -who knows what for   ). But then again this opens the possibility of Etihad openning the route since the bilateral covers any country carriers.

The only A345 permanently grounded are the Thai Airways ones. Singapore's will be bought back by Airbus in late 2013.



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8768 times:

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 77):
They are planned for retirement along with the A340-300 and the 77E early models, but they will still be around for a while yet. At least a couple more years.

Exactly. In a couple of years, when the routes to northern south america become viable, the -500s will be gone from the middle eastern fleets.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 73):
I think the A345 would be a great performer out of BOG.

Don't get me wrong, I fully think so too, but as I stated above...

Quoting trent772 (Reply 75):
Five of AV's A318's will be given an increase in MTOW and Thrust, from 64,5t to 68t MTOW and from 21.700lbs to 23,600lbs of thrust at TOGA.

I'm thinking more frequency on long-thin routes maybe? Or returning CLO-MDE-JFK to daily year-round?

On other news, Avianca, months after appearing as one of the country's top three top of mind brands and weeks after the brand unification announcement for AviancaTaca, is now one of colombia's business leaders' most respected brands, along with Ecopetrol, EPM, Bavaria, Bancolombia, Carvajal, Éxito, ISA and Organización Ardila Lülle, coming in 4th on the list:

http://www.larepublica.com.co/empres...los-l%C3%ADderes-de-opinión_25071

The strength of the AV brand in Colombia is just not disputable. Some users seemed to burst up into flames when I brought it up a couple of months ago, but it's hard a fact.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 78):
The strength of the AV brand in Colombia is just not disputable. Some users seemed to burst up into flames when I brought it up a couple of months ago, but it's hard a fact.

And to think that a year ago LAN arrogantly landed on Colombian soil thinking they would do the same thing they did in Ecuador and Peru, instead they found an opponent that is hard to beat on its own turf.

Never underestimate your opponent, it'll only show your true weakness.
Sun Tzu, The art of war.

(My opinion regarding this matter is completely biased towards AV.)

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 78):
Or returning CLO-MDE-JFK to daily year-round?

Quite possible I believe, I also think AV should give some thought at bringing back the BAQ-JFK flight.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 808 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 79):
Never underestimate your opponent, it'll only show your true weakness

Where did you see an arrogant attitude on behalf of LAN, the only arrogance has come by many AV followers that keep underestimating LAN´s ability to grow in the Colombian market. I am pretty confident this attitude is not shared by AV management or else it will be AV that will looking cautiously at your quote. I still do not understand why so many AV followers lack the ability to grasp the importance of competition in a market and how they simply would love to see all of Colombia in the hands of AV.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8751 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 79):
And to think that a year ago LAN arrogantly landed on Colombian soil thinking they would do the same thing they did in Ecuador and Peru, instead they found an opponent that is hard to beat on its own turf.

Never underestimate your opponent, it'll only show your true weakness.
Sun Tzu, The art of war.

Actually I think LAN has had lukewarm results in Colombia so far. In fact, I think that the real competition hasn't really started, it will when they expand the international network out of BOG, because domestically they have been clearly relegated to distant second fiddle. And the arrogance you talk about wasn't from the company itself but rather from some very annoying users here on a.net who kept on prying on how amazing the LAN experience would be for the colombian market, when it could be described more as meh up until now.

I was actually talking about a certain venezuelan user who flinched and was then followed by a couple others when I mentioned AV was an iconic brand. Which is a fact, not a fantastic construction that I made up in my mind due to national pride.

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
I am pretty confident this attitude is not shared by AV management or else it will be AV that will looking cautiously at your quote.

AV's management is actually more cautious of VC than of LA right now.

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
the only arrogance has come by many AV followers that keep underestimating LAN´s ability to grow in the Colombian market.

LAN has been marginally growing in the colombian market. They're cutting destinations and frequencies here and there mainly on the regional network (PPN, FLA, NVA, MZL, AXM, BAQ, EYP, UIB) while adding frequency only in a couple of trunk routes (namely MDE, CTG, SMR (seasonally) and VUP).

AV's growth, on the other hand, has been much more aggressive, and according to their quarterly results and Aerocivil stats, butts are filling the seats and money is being made, which sadly is still not the case for LAN. So it hasn't proven to be the fierce competitor some people were praising it to be, in fact, AV management is far more threatened by Viva than by them, guessing by the strategy they're following.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8753 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
Where did you see an arrogant attitude on behalf of LAN

A know a few people that work there, I remeber them telling me how once LAN took over Aires they would change air travel in Colombia, that they would quickly grow to a 50 airplane operation and that pretty much they would get rid of Avianca in a matter of months, the truth is LAN has made little gain on the market share stats while still loosing considerable amounts of cash, I'm not saying LAN is not a strong player or a bad airline, they're just not having it like they planned.
It remains to be seen what will happen when LAN's international network from BOG is in full swing.

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
I still do not understand why so many AV followers lack the ability to grasp the importance of competition in a market and how they simply would love to see all of Colombia in the hands of AV.

I completely understand the importance of competition, for the passengers is great as they have choices and a monopoly is never a good thing, for the employess is also good as there will be more jobs available and more development.

As a fan I always want to see may team win, don't take it so seriously.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 81):
AV's management is actually more cautious of VC than of LA right now.

Agreed, I think a lilttle frequency hoarding on AV's behalf shows their concern.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8754 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
Where did you see an arrogant attitude on behalf of LAN

Well not by LAN prcisisley but form a certain user that remind us several times a day that LAN is the best carrier in the world.

Quoting bogota (Reply 80):
I still do not understand why so many AV followers lack the ability to grasp the importance of competition in a market and how they simply would love to see all of Colombia in the hands of AV.

In the passenger and business point of view I think you are absolutely right, it is healthy for the business and the passengers at last that all companies have some real competition, nevertheless you have to understand that nobody is being arrogant, as an aviation enthusiast and specially a proudly Colombian, I undoubtedly feel a preference and a feeling towards AV simply because its a Colombian brand out there in the world that’s has improved allot in the last years. It makes me feel very very proud, and its obvious am not the only one. See what I mean?

Quoting trent772 (Reply 82):
A know a few people that work there, I remeber them telling me how once LAN took over Aires they would change air travel in Colombia, that they would quickly grow to a 50 airplane operation and that pretty much they would get rid of Avianca in a matter of months, the truth is LAN has made little gain on the market share stats while still loosing considerable amounts of cash, I'm not saying LAN is not a strong player or a bad airline, they're just not having it like they planned.
It remains to be seen what will happen when LAN's international network from BOG is in full swing.

Well I think that’s what I stated above, I think people feel that sense of belonging and I think it is good for a company to have motivated people that actually feel its company is going somewhere. I certainly can understand those people your talking about, it couldn’t be easy to be part of a shaky Aires that was in the verge of collapse to be then saved at the last second by the mighty LAN. Suddenly people see all those changes and a huge injection of capital and the future for once seem brighter. I can understand that, but ironically those same workers send each month their CV to AV….


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4391 posts, RR: 4
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 55):
I think this is the flight operated by TA that starts in SJO

You meant TA/LR SJO-BOG-BSB 4x weekly.
I'm not clear if the status of their available frequencies in Brazil might change once the integration process into the AV brand would be completed next year.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 84):
I'm not clear if the status of their available frequencies in Brazil might change once the integration process into the AV brand would be completed next year.

There shouldn't be any problem, after all the different AOCs will be kept, so even if it's an AV branded flight, it will be operated by a costa rican carrier.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8726 times:

Guys,

I have another of my Colombia photos added to the database. This time it's my window view of my flight from Curacao to Bogota in August. See my photo below:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




A388


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8708 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Have need of help.
Aside from getting shot by narco motogangs in Medellin or in their crossfire since I know no one naming a price on my head, could anyone assist in helping me with good areas for spotting inside the secure area? I have a long 6 hour layover in MDE, with an international departure to LIM at 5:15 (leaves at 5:45, but probably boards 30 mins before hand). Do they have good arepas there? Must have an Arepa.



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 87):
Have need of help.
Aside from getting shot by narco motogangs in Medellin or in their crossfire since I know no one naming a price on my head, could anyone assist in helping me with good areas for spotting inside the secure area? I have a long 6 hour layover in MDE, with an international departure to LIM at 5:15 (leaves at 5:45, but probably boards 30 mins before hand). Do they have good arepas there? Must have an Arepa.


Hi! Great you are coming to Colombia! Specially Medellin. Are you planning to stay the whole layover at the airport? If not, I strongly recommend you to catch a cab and go downtown, there’s a bunch of stuff to do and you’ll probably will be wanting more before you have to go back to the airport. Here’s a website with info about MDE: http://medellin.travel/en

And don’t worry you will not get shot by anyone. you’ll be surprised to see that beautiful city ! In any case if you are planning to stay at the airport there’s a couple of places inside the termac to do some spotting, maybe outside the building next to the fence. Don’t know if there’s any other good places to do some spotting, maybe members form MDE can help you better than I.

Enjoy!


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8707 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Speaking of which, if cab is the best way (safest?) to get to downtown, how much would that cost in $USD? Pesos?
I'm fluent in Spanish having lived in San Jose (CR), Lima, Panama City and Guatemala City for a total of 5 years. So I have no difficulty getting around town.

So very grateful for your help in this matter. Hope I can get in and out safely. Are international flights in the same terminal in MDE?



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8700 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 89):

So very grateful for your help in this matter. Hope I can get in and out safely. Are international flights in the same terminal in MDE?

Maybe you can hire a cab for the day. They will drive you down from MDE to town. Maybe go to the other side of the runway in EOH, sit ont he stands of the Maria Luisa Calle skating ring and do some spotting of the regional traffic over there. Or do some tourism around town. Take into account that MDE is around 45 min from Medellin.How much you can get charged?? Well, my uneducated guess will tell me that somewhere between Us50-60 (american dollars) for the roundtrip/spotting tour.

If you decide to do some spotting around MDE, there's some places you can go, but since I'm not familiar with them, maybe the locals can give you a hand with that. But there are some nice places to spor by the curb side.


Hope this was helpful.

Cheers


777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 8706 times:

Guys, what's the latest development of Mr. Efromovich take-over bid of TP? Is it going to happen or not?

A388


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8701 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 91):
Guys, what's the latest development of Mr. Efromovich take-over bid of TP? Is it going to happen or not?

A quick google search should answer your question,

http://www.elespectador.com/noticias...ulo-386667-hacer-negocios-portugal

President Santos and a group of businessmen, including top executives from AviancaTaca is in Portugal right now for a state visit, one of the main points in the bilateral agenda is of course the closure of the TAP sale to Synergy.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 89):
f cab is the best way (safest?)
Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 87):
Aside from getting shot by narco motogangs in Medellin or in their crossfire

Maybe if you asked in a nicer way? For someone who has lived extensively in latin america (And in Guatemala City), those kinds of statements seem a little ignorant don't you think?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinemiguel0881 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 87):
Have need of help.Aside from getting shot by narco motogangs in Medellin or in their crossfire since I know no one naming a price on my head, could anyone assist in helping me with good areas for spotting inside the secure area? I have a long 6 hour layover in MDE, with an international departure to LIM at 5:15 (leaves at 5:45, but probably boards 30 mins before hand). Do they have good arepas there? Must have an Arepa.

Enjoy Medellin. I spent an entire week there a couple of years ago and had a great time. It's a fabulous city. Don't know if you're planning to limit your time to spotting, but the open air Botero statues downtown are worth a visit, as are the painitngs inside the Antioquia Museum directly in front.

Separately, I'm returning to Colombia soon and need to travel between BOG to BGA. Looks like available options are Avianca, Copa and LAN Colombia. Anyone have a reason to book one over the other?


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 92):
A quick google search should answer your question,

Some times people know things (such as inside information or information received from other friends etc...) that cannot be found on google. This is why I asked it here.

A388


User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
Correction, the runway there is 1400m long. It's the altitude (2000m above sea level) that limits the aircraft's performance. With a 1000m runway only very small aircraft would be able to take off from there, as it used to happen until the early 1990s when the extension was carried out.

Hi first post,
Just so You get the idea, the 6990FT of elevation does not affect the performance as much as a combination of a huge down slope( you need a lower V1 to balance the field so you won't end outside the airport fence in case of an RTO) for take off and of course the RWY length.
After flying for 2 years there , almost 3 times a day I can tell you that of the 45900 pounds the FK50 can take to the air , the max take off from MZL would be 41900 pounds , that you actually never did uplift , as many penalties apply , such as tail wind (-475LB per 1KT) or a wet RWY.
It was a great flight to do anyway.
I think the best choice will be the ATR , featuring the new PW-M Series, that basically ''give'' 500HP more than the PW127-B of the FK50, combined with a lighter airframe , might give the ideal ''HOT & HIGH'' performance that is much needed from MZL, and also with the ATR being from EADS it will give some advantage Mx wise to the entire Airbus fleet.



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 89):
Speaking of which, if cab is the best way (safest?) to get to downtown, how much would that cost in $USD? Pesos?
I'm fluent in Spanish having lived in San Jose (CR), Lima, Panama City and Guatemala City for a total of 5 years. So I have no difficulty getting around town.

I would say cab is the fastest and safest way around, and it will probably cost you around 70 dollars round trip. As mentioned above MDE is about 30 to 40 min drive from downtown so it’s not really that expensive, there’s also shared cabs from about 10 dollars and they are also perfectly safe. You will be amazed when you get to Medellin and see for yourself it’s not what the sensationalist media shows abroad about Colombia based on a dark past from decades behind.

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 89):
So very grateful for your help in this matter. Hope I can get in and out safely. Are international flights in the same terminal in MDE?

Yes. MDE only has a single terminal. You are very welcome I hope you enjoy this beautiful country, especially Medellin one of the most beautiful cities in Colombia. And once again don’t worry Colombia is perfectly safe.

Quoting miguel0881 (Reply 93):
Separately, I'm returning to Colombia soon and need to travel between BOG to BGA. Looks like available options are Avianca, Copa and LAN Colombia. Anyone have a reason to book one over the other?

All 3 airlines are great. But if you want my advice go with AV, great service and great inflight product even tough it’s only a 30 min flight. Also you have 11 frequencies daily to better suit your connections with a mix of 318/319/320. LA flies 3 times a day with 737/320 and CM twice a day with E190.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8728 times:

Quoting Colombia (Reply 95):
Hi first post,

Hey! Welcome to the forum, hope we get to have great discussions on here.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 95):
Just so You get the idea, the 6990FT of elevation does not affect the performance as much as a combination of a huge down slope( you need a lower V1 to balance the field so you won't end outside the airport fence in case of an RTO) for take off and of course the RWY length.

Thanks for the insight, it is indeed a very limited airport.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinemiguel0881 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 96):
All 3 airlines are great. But if you want my advice go with AV, great service and great inflight product even tough it’s only a 30 min flight. Also you have 11 frequencies daily to better suit your connections with a mix of 318/319/320. LA flies 3 times a day with 737/320 and CM twice a day with E190.

Thanks for this advice. I noticed that AV has the most frequencies, so will likely go with them. Looking forward to flying again with AV. Last time was over 10 years ago on SCL-EZE.


User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8733 times:

Quoting miguel0881 (Reply 98):
Thanks for this advice. I noticed that AV has the most frequencies, so will likely go with them. Looking forward to flying again with AV. Last time was over 10 years ago on SCL-EZE.

Great! Please let me know how it goes, AV from 10 years ago form todays one is a completely different thing. Obviously is a 30 min domestic flight but still.

Enjoy !


MATURRO727


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8734 times:

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 99):
Quoting miguel0881 (Reply 98):
Thanks for this advice. I noticed that AV has the most frequencies, so will likely go with them. Looking forward to flying again with AV. Last time was over 10 years ago on SCL-EZE.

Great! Please let me know how it goes, AV from 10 years ago form todays one is a completely different thing. Obviously is a 30 min domestic flight but still.

Enjoy !


MATURRO727

Yes, I'm also very much interested in your experience now (10 years later). I flew AV about 4-5 times between June and September this year and it was my first time flying with them. I enjoyed them a lot, excellent airline in my opinion.

A388

[Edited 2012-11-14 05:37:49]

User currently offlinemiguel0881 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 100):
Yes, I'm also very much interested in your experience now (10 years later). I flew AV about 4-5 times between June and September this year and it was my first time flying with them. I enjoyed them a lot, excellent airline in my opinion.

A388

Thanks, will let you know. I'm also flying AV from BGA-BOG-IAD on the return, although I will arrive in Colombia on AA. Now that AV is part of Star, I may be a regular aboard.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

More perspective onto the Synergy-TAP deal:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/AW_11_05_2012_p44-512136.xml&p=1

Easyfly won't be flying to MZL because the Jetstreams would be too limited and it wouldn't be profitable:

http://www.lapatria.com/economia/easyfly-no-volara-por-manizales-19033

Guess the last hope they have for competition on the BOG route is Ada on their newly acquired Do 328s...

But they've started an interesting new route to Pitalito in the department of Huila from BOG, initially twice weekly:

http://www.diariodelhuila.com/site/i...ra-dos-veces-por-semana-a-pitalito

Pitalito is close to the touristic San Agustín archaeological site. I bet with proper advertising and promotion this niche route could do well with school groups and expeditioners, but I don't think there is a significant local market from Pitalito to Bogotá that would rather pay for a plane than a bus.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4391 posts, RR: 4
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8772 times:

CM MDE-ADZ goes from 7x to 10x weekly from December 16th. The equipment will shift from E90 to 73G.


"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 103):
CM MDE-ADZ goes from 7x to 10x weekly from December 16th. The equipment will shift from E90 to 73G.

thats a nice upgrade, also didnt had CM in the past 2 daily flights MDE-ADZ one middle of the night?

I am still wondering why AV is only serving ADZ from BOG (4 daily flights) I am sure their would be room for 1 ex MDE and 1 x CLO



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8779 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 102):
More perspective onto the Synergy-TAP deal:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l&p=1

Hey RCS763AV, thanks for the link. Based on what I've read here in the forum about Mr. Efromovic, is that he also has Polish ties making him European. The article describes Mr. Efromovic as a Latin investor while he also has a Polish link, in other words a European link, right?

A388


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

There are some rumours that AV will announce a deal with Bombardier pretty soon. We only cna wait and see.



There's also some news on an incident involving a Cm 737 doing PTY-BOG. Anyone knows anything about it??



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8770 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 59):
Again, why? It's basically the same product on Aerogal and it will be the exact same product and brand once the integration is finished by the end of next year.

Sorry, but Aerogal isn't gonna be part of the new brand yet, also Avianca Brasil is not part of it,
Aerogal lost its rights for a government paid fuel, as LAN did, the only airline that still has it is TAME, so after all the route might not be as cheap as You think, maybe they want to give Aerogal a try.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 59):
not to mention information from station managers is never that accurate.

I'm sorry, but i'm thinking you are not part of the airline business?(pilot, disp, etc...), as trent772 mentioned, the station manager is the one that knows every single thing there is to know about a flight, pax loads, cargo loads, fuel loads, etc,
now, it may not be accurate to You, as you are not one of the parts involved they can't actually give You the exact info



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8778 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 106):
There are some rumours that AV will announce a deal with Bombardier pretty soon. We only cna wait and see.

It looks as if AV has really been pitting Bombardier and ATR against each other hard.
I hope that we soon know what they went for.

In news relating to AV-TA, today they announced an 8% increase in revenue the third quarter, but a 12% reduction in operational profits at US$ 114m, with a net profit of $US 60m, around 14% than the same quarter in 2011.
http://www.radiosantafe.com/2012/11/...to-utilidades-por-101036-millones/

Not bad, considering the expansion and fierce competition in Colombian domestic routes. That is of course only one part of the business, in a company that now has hubs in 4 countries.

In contrast, LAN Colombia is still not improving its fortunes, with an accumulated loss in the first nine months of the year to $US 48 million. They had originally planned to have the company breaking even by the end of 2011, later the goalpost was moved to 2012, and now they are saying that it will be 2013. At the rate they are bleeding money that has not changed for the better, it seems unlikely. LAN Colombia are poised to increase international flying from Colombia next year, and that might bring some better results, but that will take some time to yield positives.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 106):
There's also some news on an incident involving a Cm 737 doing PTY-BOG. Anyone knows anything about it??

Smoke in cabin. According the Av herald it was a BOG-PTY, that returned to Eldorado:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=111000&From=COP&To=USD


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8767 times:

Quoting Colombia (Reply 107):
Sorry, but Aerogal isn't gonna be part of the new brand yet,

Have you seen the interiors of Aerogal's aircraft? Not to mention they were just fully integrated into Lifemiles and the flights from Ecuador to Peru and Colombia were marketed by AV and TA, not even by them. Also, they'll be part of the brand in less than a year.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 107):
also Avianca Brasil is not part of it,

Again, have you seen the interiors on AV Brasil's aircraft? They might have a different product on the ground, but on the air it's basically the same thing. And I don't understand what this has to do with the discussion about 2K?

Quoting Colombia (Reply 107):
I'm sorry, but i'm thinking you are not part of the airline business?(pilot, disp, etc...), as trent772 mentioned, the station manager is the one that knows every single thing there is to know about a flight, pax loads, cargo loads, fuel loads, etc,
now, it may not be accurate to You, as you are not one of the parts involved they can't actually give You the exact info

A station manager knows a lot of things, I agree. But in the case of AV's IAD station manager, I doubt he knows exactly by heart the passenger figures connecting from LPB to IAD via BOG. That is proven by the fact that he said that 75% of ALL traffic was connecting to LPB, which just doesn't add up using common sense and some math. If the flight was five times weekly before the introduction of LPB and had a very big component of LIM connecting traffic complimenting the O/D from BOG with good load factors, how did it all of a sudden become 75% occupied by LPB bound pax when they only added two weekly frequencies?

Quoting summa767 (Reply 108):
In news relating to AV-TA, today they announced an 8% increase in revenue the third quarter, but a 12% reduction in operational profits at US$ 114m, with a net profit of $US 60m, around 14% than the same quarter in 2011.

That's a good result, but I don't understand why there was a drop in operational profit when they managed to achieve a whopping 6% reduction in CASK, excluding fuel. Was fuel that expensive this quarter? Anyways great figures, even with the intensive and aggressive fare wars going on in the colombian domestic market (as was mentioned this isn't their only business but it most certainly is an essential and very big chunk of it all).

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 106):
There are some rumours that AV will announce a deal with Bombardier pretty soon. We only cna wait and see.

Read them too. We'll see.

Quoting A388 (Reply 105):
Based on what I've read here in the forum about Mr. Efromovic, is that he also has Polish ties making him European.

That's what the press has been saying, but the parts have actually been very silent on any of the aspects of this transaction.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 103):
CM MDE-ADZ goes from 7x to 10x weekly from December 16th. The equipment will shift from E90 to 73G.

Well that's a welcome upgrade. When was the last time CM* improved frequency on a colombian domestic route? 2009?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8769 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 109):
That is proven by the fact that he said that 75% of ALL traffic was connecting to LPB, which just doesn't add up

I think that you read it wrong. the 75% figure was for connections in general, and around 50 pax for LPB as the typical number per flight.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 109):
Was fuel that expensive this quarter?

Yes, fuel was stated to be the main factor in the 12% operational profit decrease.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8775 times:

AV just confirmed an order for 3 more 787s. It was officialized bu both Boeing and AV in Panama. That bring the official orders for AV to 15 Dreamliners.

http://www.eturbonews.com/32283/boei...nounce-order-three-787-dreamliners



Rumours are still strong on the Bombardier side. It seem they will order up to 16 Q400 to replace their F50 fleet.

Cheers

777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 110):
I think that you read it wrong. the 75% figure was for connections in general, and around 50 pax for LPB as the typical number per flight.

Look at reply 56. Anyways, I don't think it merits any further discussion. Let's all just agree that it was 75% of connecting traffic, which seems like a steep figure still but is actually possible.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 111):
AV just confirmed an order for 3 more 787s. It was officialized bu both Boeing and AV in Panama. That bring the official orders for AV to 15 Dreamliners.

I'm confused. Was this the order that was announced a couple months ago and they're now making it firm?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 112):

I think that's the case.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8786 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
This will be the new adjusted schedule to MIA from BOG by Avianca, with the third flight on the mid-day bank and the afternoon flight adjusted to better fit into the night bank and a change of equipment to A319, it will operate like this from december 16th:dep arr freq aircraft flight #10:20 BOG 14:00 MIA A330 AV614:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV421:30 BOG 1:00+1 MIA A319 AV804:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV509:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV916:00 MIA 19:30 BOG A330 AV7

Will AV be upgauging any of these flights during the busy holiday season? Adding an additional frequency?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 65):
Indeed. It wouldn't surprise me if it went 2x daily in the mid term. ORD should be looked at too, specially since the colombian community there is larger than around Washington D.C.

I'm surprised they haven't looked into ORD yet since it's a very large Star Hub for UA. Is the A319 fleet being used to the maximum? Waiting for additional frames?

Quoting trent772 (Reply 75):
Five of AV's A318's will be given an increase in MTOW and Thrust, from 64,5t to 68t MTOW and from 21.700lbs to 23,600lbs of thrust at TOGA.this is a nice change allowing the airplanes to fly longer routes during low season, NYC maybe?

The A318s would be great for an additional IAD rotation and they could start ORD with it as well. MX used the A318 the majority of the time for their MEX-JFK flights with an occasional upgauge.

Will AV re-start BOG-LAX once they start receiving their 787s?


User currently offlineav757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 115, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8780 times:
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No plans for BOG-ORD-BOG, and BOG-LAX-BOG slots where taken up by LAN

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 116, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8778 times:

Quoting av757 (Reply 115):
No plans for BOG-ORD-BOG, and BOG-LAX-BOG slots where taken up by LAN

BOG-ORD-BOG does seem quite long for the A319. But what slots are you talking about on BOG-LAX? In less than two months the open skies agreement with the US is coming into force. And even so, within the current agreement there is no limit to the carriers that could operate a route.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 114):
The A318s would be great for an additional IAD rotation and they could start ORD with it as well.

Would the A318 make it all the way to ORD?

Quoting laca773 (Reply 114):
Will AV be upgauging any of these flights during the busy holiday season? Adding an additional frequency?

Well, they are launching the third flight on the holiday season so why upgauge? Maybe a couple of substitutions for A320s on the busiest days but nothing scheduled of course...

And speaking of other things, with AC printing money on their BOG-YYZ flights, will the colombian carriers jump ship? Will CM* launch their proposed CTG-YYZ, given the frequency limitations from PTY?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8772 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 116):
Would the A318 make it all the way to ORD?

AV will take a look into ORD when the NEOs arrive. I've heard presentations from AV amangement explaining the capabilities of the NEOs, and one of them is that the 319NEO will be abel to do BOG-ORD. So this makes me think that they're already looking into it. But we won't se eit with the current fleet.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 116):
But what slots are you talking about on BOG-LAX?

Does AV have the right equipment for the route? The 330 way too big and probably the 318 doesn't have the legs to do it profitably. In the short term, AV will stick to the BOG-SAL-LAX routing for now.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 118, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8764 times:
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Quoting 777jaah (Reply 117):

Does AV have the right equipment for the route? The 330 way too big and probably the 318 doesn't have the legs to do it profitably. In the short term, AV will stick to the BOG-SAL-LAX routing for now.

No. Once they retired the 767 fleet, the A330 is too much a/c for the route, unless they have a large cargo business.
It seems like for AV to re-start BOG-LAX-BOG, they will need to have the 787 which would be the right size a/c for this route.

Is it safe to assume LA will eventually start BOG-LAX-BOG with either the 787 or 76W?


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 119, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8773 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 118):
they will need to have the 787 which would be the right size a/c for this route.

I don't know if you want to use an aircraft with a very long range (787) on a short route (BOG-LAX-BOG) or use an aircraft with shorter range with too much cargo space (A332). In most aspects the 787 is very similar in performance to the A332.

Boeing 787-8:

Range: 14,200 - 15,200 km
Passengers: 210-250
Cargo: 4,400 cubic feet
MTOW: 502,500 pounds


Airbus A330-200:

Range: 13,400 km
Passengers: 253
Cargo: 4,800 cubic feet
MTOW: 507,000 pounds



A388


User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 808 posts, RR: 1
Reply 120, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

The first 767 by LAN Colombia should be at BOG by Sunday 18th of November, one day earlier that I had anticipated a few months back. This plane will be the one used for certifications with Aerocivil, once that process is finished the plane will return to Chile before coming back for good together with two other ones early 2013.

On another note, LA is planning to open BOG-CCS-BOG in an A320 once the 767 are operating GRU and MIA.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 121, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 116):
BOG-ORD-BOG does seem quite long for the A319

well its 74 mi longer than BOG-SCL that as per my understanding was served regular with A319 by AV.
Or its only 130 mi longer thatn BOG-JFK - so I think it should be ok

Quoting bogota (Reply 120):
On another note, LA is planning to open BOG-CCS-BOG in an A320 once the 767 are operating GRU and MIA.

well that would be more than welcomed for me - I have still over 100.000km to burn with LAN - and quite limited use for them ex CCS - beside maybe trips to the south. do you have any more details about it?

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 122, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 121):
well its 74 mi longer than BOG-SCL that as per my understanding was served regular with A319 by AV.

Oh. Somehow I thought it was a much longer route.

Quoting bogota (Reply 120):
On another note, LA is planning to open BOG-CCS-BOG in an A320 once the 767 are operating GRU and MIA.

Nice to see more competition on BOG-CCS now that pax numbers are picking up again.

Quoting A388 (Reply 119):
I don't know if you want to use an aircraft with a very long range (787) on a short route (BOG-LAX-BOG) or use an aircraft with shorter range with too much cargo space (A332).

They use the A330s on BOG-MIA-BOG which is a three hour flight, also, BOG-LAX is not a short flight by any means, it's 7 hours. I get what you're saying, but if they can make the numbers work then they'll use the 787. The A330 is apparently not the plane for the route (that combined with the stupid strategy of feeding the SAL at any cost possible).

On other news,

After accumulated losses of around 47 million dollars in their colombian operation, LAN is implementing MAJOR network cuts, not on the usual regional routes, but on many trunk sectors,

MDE goes from 10 to 5 flights a day (!!!)
CLO goes from 6 to 4 flights
CTG from 6 to 4 flights
BAQ goes from 4 to 2 flights (!!!)

They're basically handing over the market to Avianca and Viva now. I hope the cuts are only temporary.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 123, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
They use the A330s on BOG-MIA-BOG which is a three hour flight, also, BOG-LAX is not a short flight by any means, it's 7 hours. I get what you're saying, but if they can make the numbers work then they'll use the 787. The A330 is apparently not the plane for the route (that combined with the stupid strategy of feeding the SAL at any cost possible).

Yes, I know of course if they can make it work, they will use the right aircraft for the route but MIA has good passenger demand and good cargo demand which justifies the A330 on that short trip I would assume but is LAX really that much in demand from Colombia, especially now that LAN Colombia will also fly that route?

A388


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 124, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 123):
but is LAX really that much in demand from Colombia, especially now that LAN Colombia will also fly that route?

well LAX was served for many many years ex BOG - for sure the scenario will be different with LA also in the market - what is a big + is that the flight would be filled up with lot of cargo north and southbound



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 125, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8712 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 112):
Look at reply 56

I have, and it only mentions connections to IAD being 75%. In a different part it says LPB bound pax round 50 per flight.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
After accumulated losses of around 47 million dollars in their colombian operation, LAN is implementing MAJOR network cuts, not on the usual regional routes, but on many trunk sectors,

LAN has mounted huge losses, but I believe that the frequencies that appear on the system at the moment are only temporary, whilst they finalise their schedule from January.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 126, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 125):
LAN has mounted huge losses, but I believe that the frequencies that appear on the system at the moment are only temporary, whilst they finalise their schedule from January.

all other would be a shame!
I am still not convinced that LAN mad the right choice with the investment in CO - it was and it is a totally different market like all other countries were they started with own operations - PE and EC had only run down small airlines - AR - had a big run down airline name of AR ... and what has Avianca a very very strong brand and a good product.

will be interesting what LA will do in the future in Colombia.

Cargo ops on the oposite is something totally different - QT in my opinion is still missmanaged never understood how after the aquisition of QT by Synergy the QT management was basically replaced by ex TA staff - a company who was never successfull in cargo ops.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 127, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8761 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 126):
all other would be a shame!
I am still not convinced that LAN mad the right choice with the investment in CO

I think that is was right of LAN to target Colombia as a good potential market, given its 45 m inhabitants, it has multiple centres and no good roads or railways. But it is clear that they pretended to copy and paste the strategy that they had elsewhere and it has not worked.
There is still a lot of international traffic potential, and LAN might do better at that. Let's see if they know how to exploit it, and that is a big if.


User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 126):
Cargo ops on the oposite is something totally different - QT in my opinion is still missmanaged never understood how after the aquisition of QT by Synergy the QT management was basically replaced by ex TA staff - a company who was never successfull in cargo ops.

Not true at all, Tampa is increasing its operations and its closing the gap with LANCO every day, measured by MIA OPS only Tampa, is actually larger, and will be even more with the A330F which are expected to arrive early in december.
The difference is that LANCO flies to places that Tampa can't reach , with the 777F, I'm not sure if Tampa will go to europe once the A330F is here but it sure would be nice



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 129, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

Quoting Colombia (Reply 128):
Not true at all, Tampa is increasing its operations and its closing the gap with LANCO every day, measured by MIA OPS only Tampa, is actually larger, and will be even more with the A330F which are expected to arrive early in december.
The difference is that LANCO flies to places that Tampa can't reach , with the 777F, I'm not sure if Tampa will go to europe once the A330F is here but it sure would be nice

nohting to do with the destinations, its the way each company is managed... also I am totally pro Synergy Group. QT is and was not managed well the last years. Well I am nearly sure that all in all LA Cargo has a bigger ops in MIA than QT. QT is not small at all no doubt, but LA Cargo ist still miles ahead.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8747 times:
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I've decided I will go early in the morning on arrival in MDE and then take the colectivo taxi to downtown - what's a good breakfast spot in Medellin? It's cheaper than the regular taxis. Then, I will return around lunch hour and do spotting and stuff. I will have already checked my bags in for LIM in BOG earlier in the morning anyways, and then with boarding pass in hand, i will just clear immigration for exit from Colombia later in the afternoon (around 4 or so).

Can i pay a fee to use the AV lounge though my flight is on TACA PERU.



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8749 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 129):
QT is and was not managed well the last years

Ok, will You care to elaborate more on this? Where do You get facts for this?

Quoting Avianca (Reply 129):
Well I am nearly sure that all in all LA Cargo has a bigger ops in MIA than QT.

We are talking about Colombia are we not? Lan Cargo as a whole, yes, LANCO, no



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 132, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

Quoting Colombia (Reply 131):
Ok, will You care to elaborate more on this? Where do You get facts for this?

I am working for a company who is a big customer of QT and LA

Quoting Colombia (Reply 131):
We are talking about Colombia are we not? Lan Cargo as a whole, yes, LANCO, no

yes you stated QT MIA operations - and QT as you know ex MIA has flights to several places ex MIA that are not located in Colombia as well - like LIM, UIO, CCS, VLN - hence I think we shoudl compare in general - specially as the southbound flights are often routed first via a 3rd country as their is still a inbalance between aircargo export and import (mostly due the yield) in the colombian market



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 133, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8728 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 127):
There is still a lot of international traffic potential, and LAN might do better at that. Let's see if they know how to exploit it, and that is a big if.

Indeed, as I had stated this might be the area where the real competition will take place.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 125):
AN has mounted huge losses, but I believe that the frequencies that appear on the system at the moment are only temporary, whilst they finalise their schedule from January.

I see. It's getting kinda late for not finalizing them though don't you think?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
After accumulated losses of around 47 million dollars in their colombian operation,

I have to add: these losses were just for the first nine months of 2012, not since they started operating in the country, those should come almost at 200 million USD.

Here's QT's first A330F:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...a330f-que-operara-tampa-cargo.html

Looks great.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9716 posts, RR: 11
Reply 134, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 133):
Here's QT's first A330F:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...a330f-que-operara-tampa-cargo.html

Looks great.

Absolutely, that looks nice!!! However, I did expect these A330F's to wear the AV livery to unify the brand and brand awareness just as how the TA livery will be replaced by AV's. I don't mind seeing these A330F's in QT colors 

A388


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 135, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8689 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
They use the A330s on BOG-MIA-BOG which is a three hour flight, also, BOG-LAX is not a short flight by any means, it's 7 hours. I get what you're saying, but if they can make the numbers work then they'll use the 787. The A330 is apparently not the plane for the route (that combined with the stupid strategy of feeding the SAL at any cost possible

The 788 will be a much more fuel efficient a/c for AV to use in this market if they choose to re-enter.
TA doesn't have a good reputation among frequent flyers who travel to CA and or transit on to SA via GUA/SAL/SJO. People would much prefer to fly Copa via PTY. It's a shame they won't be able to re-start a nonstop in the near future in this market.

LA does very well @ LAX with up to two daily flights now. I'd be interested to know how many transit passengers they get from other OW carriers there.

[quote=RCS763AV,reply=122]After accumulated losses of around 47 million dollars in their colombian operation, LAN is implementing MAJOR network cuts, not on the usual regional routes, but on many trunk sectors,

MDE goes from 10 to 5 flights a day (!!!)
CLO goes from 6 to 4 flights
CTG from 6 to 4 flights ,,
BAQ goes from 4 to 2 flights (!!!)

They're basically handing over the market to Avianca and Viva now. I hope the cuts are only temporary.

Perhaps LA should hold onto the A318s for the time being and transfer them to the Colombian arm instead. Perhaps they would do much better with the A318 versus using the larger A319/A320s on these domestic flights?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8280 posts, RR: 7
Reply 136, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8653 times:
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Any news on LAN expanding Colombia to Miami flights beyond their single A320 BOG to Miami flight ?

User currently offlinetrent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8482 times:

Quoting summa767 (Reply 127):
There is still a lot of international traffic potential, and LAN might do better at that.

I don't see how LAN can improve things in Colombia once the international flights are launched. I mean, how are they going to bring their pax to BOG if all they've been doing lately is slashing their domestic timetable by approximately half?

Quoting summa767 (Reply 127):
Let's see if they know how to exploit it, and that is a big if.

Big if, huge if, let's hope they know how to exploit it, for the sake of healthy competition.  
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
BOG-LAX is not a short flight by any means, it's 7 hours.

Depends on how you look at it, 7 hours is a long flight for a single crew ,a really long one in fact!, on the other hand 7 hours is considered a short sector in long haul flying.
Long haul flights are those that are over 6:30hrs in stage length.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 122):
The A330 is apparently not the plane for the route

I have heard this before from a different source but I tend to disagree, I think the flight could work in a 3x a week schedule, the rest of the days the could do the flight via SAL.
I remember while doing AV048/049 that the airplane was always at max payload both ways, just charge the pax a little more if they want to go direct, let them feel the difference between non-stop and a stop in SAL, and at just three flights a week you are pretty much assured of a healthy pax load.



Pedaling Squares…
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 138, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8437 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 134):
Absolutely, that looks nice!!! However, I did expect these A330F's to wear the AV livery to unify the brand and brand awareness just as how the TA livery will be replaced by AV's.

They will be repainted once the rebranding takes place.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 135):
The 788 will be a much more fuel efficient a/c for AV to use in this market if they choose to re-enter.

Yes. I'm sure the route will be re-launched with the 788s.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 135):
It's a shame they won't be able to re-start a nonstop in the near future in this market.

It is, and LAN might beat them to the punch.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 135):
Perhaps they would do much better with the A318 versus using the larger A319/A320s on these domestic flights?

All of those routes are very dense and are served by Avianca on A320s multiple times a day (in total MDE has 27 flights, CLO 23, CTG 14 and BAQ 13). It's not a quesiton of the colombian domestic market being thin. IMO the A318s wouldn't help LAN achieve what they want, in fact, they would raise their CASM and I think the reason they're suffering is because the fares are already very low.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 137):
I have heard this before from a different source but I tend to disagree, I think the flight could work in a 3x a week schedule, the rest of the days the could do the flight via SAL.

I have the same reading, but the general thesis here o a.net is that the A330 is just too big for the route. What my reading is is that from they have inherited the annoying practice of not developing each hub as an independent but inter connected market but rather they favor the development of other hubs they fail to grow in places where it seems obvious.

Examples are many, like how MIA didn't have a flight to LIM for years because Kriete thought people should rather connect at SJO and SAL. BOG-LAX is a clear example of axing a healthy market just to favor the SAL hub. They basically handed the market over to everyone else.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8751 posts, RR: 5
Reply 139, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8416 times:
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Quoting laca773 (Reply 135):
They're basically handing over the market to Avianca and Viva now. I hope the cuts are only temporary.

LAN Colombia is not cutting frequencies on those routes from BOG next year and will also increase flights from its focus city at Medellín-Olaya Herrera. LAN escogió a Medellín como plataforma para el crecimiento. Also, LAN recently added 88 extra flights for the high season on domestic routes: http://www.lan.com/files/pdf/es_co_2...adicionales_temporada_alta_int.pdf Next year, LAN Colombia will receive additional A-320s and will incorporate B-767-316ERs into the fleet for international routes. LAN is rapidly phasing out the A-318s and within a year, they will no longer be a part of LAN's fleet.


User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 140, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting trent772 (Reply 137):
I mean, how are they going to bring their pax to BOG if all they've been doing lately is slashing their domestic timetable by approximately half?

It looks as if frequencies will not decrease, or at least not permanently. for January, BOG-MDE appears at 6 daily. I guess that connections to new international services will fine from the major cities, although, of course, not so from the likes of AXM and MZL that have been slashed altogether.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 137):
Big if, huge if, let's hope they know how to exploit it, for the sake of healthy competition.  

Things are not great for them, as they feel more presumer from Viva that is increasing frequencies on point to point routes as well as trunk routes. They have just announced PEI-SMR, also increasing frequencies from MDE to BOG (now 4 x daily), SMR (up to 2 daily), CTG (up to 3 daily) and BAQ (up to 2 daily).

Again, if there is a concerted effort to offer international routes, perhaps a BOG hub might work out better for them. The problem is that coming in to offer another hub, to a market that already has a choice of hubs, when for many destinations are better than BOG, and what would really appeal are more point to point routes.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 138):
I have the same reading, but the general thesis here o a.net is that the A330 is just too big for the route.

I don't think that is an a.net thing. Here we have reflected the opinion of AV directives who are the ones who have said that the A330 is too big for BOG-LAX. They know best, as they have the figures!


LAN might make it work with the 763, and let them try. One of the few routes where they might have a chance.


User currently offlineColombia From Colombia, joined Nov 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 138):
They will be repainted once the rebranding takes place.

How do You know this? I hear that the 2 and 3 A330 are going to fly all white.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 138):
Yes. I'm sure the route will be re-launched with the 788s.

No, it will not, they gave the route up so TACA could do it, Avianca just supplies the PAX.

Lets see how LAN does with the 767, the first routes are going to be the already good for the SCL and one of the strongest routes for AV, Sao Paulo, they will begin LAX with the third 767.

Any body here knows whats gonna happen with Easy Fly with the Interbolsa drama? I heard they own some of Easy Fly but Im not sure,

Regards



You Can't Fail If You Never Try
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 142, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8354 times:

Quoting Colombia (Reply 141):
ow do You know this? I hear that the 2 and 3 A330 are going to fly all white.

Because on every statement they have issued regarding the brand change it is clear that Tampa will also undergo the brand unification into Avianca. It is only obvious that they will paint the planes in due time.

Quoting Colombia (Reply 141):
No, it will not, they gave the route up so TACA could do it, Avianca just supplies the PAX.

You have no idea if that will happen. As for starters, the 788s won't start coming for another year and a half at least, and for seconds, nothing is certain in the world, and no airlines plans things that in advance.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 139):
LAN Colombia is not cutting frequencies on those routes from BOG next year and will also increase flights from its focus city at Medellín-Olaya Herrera.

The decreases are very present on the website. It has to be a temporary thing of course, but some of them will indeed take place. For example, CTG is reducing frequency after the busy holiday period, which is understandable. But they're clearly not blossoming.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 140):
It looks as if frequencies will not decrease, or at least not permanently. for January, BOG-MDE appears at 6 daily.

MDE was up to 10 daily on some days from BOG!

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 139):
will also increase flights from its focus city at Medellín-Olaya Herrera.

Makes sense since they got their ass kicked flying regional from BOG.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 143, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8319 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 138):

I have the same reading, but the general thesis here o a.net is that the A330 is just too big for the route. What my reading is is that from they have inherited the annoying practice of not developing each hub as an independent but inter connected market but rather they favor the development of other hubs they fail to grow in places where it seems obvious.

Examples are many, like how MIA didn't have a flight to LIM for years because Kriete thought people should rather connect at SJO and SAL. BOG-LAX is a clear example of axing a healthy market just to favor the SAL hub. They basically handed the market over to everyone else.

   ! I feel this was a big mistake on their part.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 140):
I don't think that is an a.net thing. Here we have reflected the opinion of AV directives who are the ones who have said that the A330 is too big for BOG-LAX. They know best, as they have the figures!


LAN might make it work with the 763, and let them try. One of the few routes where they might have a chance.

  .

Quoting Colombia (Reply 141):
No, it will not, they gave the route up so TACA could do it, Avianca just supplies the PAX.

Lets see how LAN does with the 767, the first routes are going to be the already good for the SCL and one of the strongest routes for AV, Sao Paulo, they will begin LAX with the third 767.

They sure did turn it over to TA and nobody likes to fly TA on any route out of LAX. Their reputation is rather poor. AV needs to come in with this re-branding being mentioned in this thread and start advertising agressively. Perhaps they can get those heading to SA a reason to try AV along with they are now part of Star.


User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8316 times:
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MIA-LIM is a very healthy market indeed, with 2X with AA, how many with LA not sure, and