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Is AC Starting Singapore?  
User currently offlinericardofg From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8536 times:

I have no articles or anything to support my theory, except for the fact that there are a number of jobs available on Air Canada's website for Singapore...anyone know anything?

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8517 times:

Such a route would need a connection at, lets say NRT or HKG. I don't think that SQ can take the route all the way like SQ does to LAX and EWR. The planes SQ uses for those direct routes were modified in order to save weight and burn fuel, and I'm not sure the 77W can do so.


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8494 times:

Quoting ricardofg (Thread starter):
I have no articles or anything to support my theory, except for the fact that there are a number of jobs available on Air Canada's website for Singapore...anyone know anything?

Those are maintenance jobs. They're obviously contracting out some maintenance to someone in SIN due to the shutdown of Aveos.

Excerpt from the "Site Manager" vacancy bulletin:

To represent Air Canada Maintenance & Engineering at the MRO Vendor & provide management oversight of the accomplishment of all Air Canada Airframe maintenance being undertaken at the Vendor.

[Edited 2012-10-07 12:52:59]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30974 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8474 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
The planes SQ uses for those direct routes were modified in order to save weight and burn fuel, and I'm not sure the 77W can do so.

Air Canada does have the 777-200LR, which could comfortably handle that mission.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
The planes SQ uses for those direct routes were modified in order to save weight and burn fuel, and I'm not sure the 77W can do so.

Air Canada does have the 777-200LR, which could comfortably handle that mission.

Highly unlikely SIN is anywhere close to the top of AC's priority list of new destinations. Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN also isn't well-located as a connecting hub for Canada. It's too far south. Only works for some peripheral (and small) markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8390 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Highly unlikely SIN is anywhere close to the top of AC's priority list of new destinations. Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN also isn't well-located as a connecting hub for Canada. It's too far south. Only works for some peripheral (and small) markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

I very much agree with your assessment. It's more likely that the two new 77W being added to AC fleet next year will probably be placed on routes to China and/or Brazil.


User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2238 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8010 times:

Singapore is a long long way down AC's priority lists. Maybe once full blown Free Trade is signed for the Pacific Rim and it is matured enough to add traffic to the whole region it might happen. But that is a loooong way off.

User currently offlinechrisa330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7919 times:

SASCO in Singapore was chosen to perform MX on the A330/B777 fleets

User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 567 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7636 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Highly unlikely SIN is anywhere close to the top of AC's priority list of new destinations. Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN also isn't well-located as a connecting hub for Canada. It's too far south. Only works for some peripheral (and small) markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

I also remember reading about SQ pulling out from Canada due to heavy protectionism imposed on them from the Canadian government. Is there any truth in that?

On the main topic, I doubt there would be much O&D traffic ffrom Canada to SIN and AC doesn't have a strong network within Southeast Asia or Asia in general for connecting passengers, but I might be wrong here.

Does anyone here know about AC's presence in Asia in general? I imagine they'd have decent links to North Asia but nothing much in the South or Southeast


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7558 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 8):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Highly unlikely SIN is anywhere close to the top of AC's priority list of new destinations. Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN also isn't well-located as a connecting hub for Canada. It's too far south. Only works for some peripheral (and small) markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

I also remember reading about SQ pulling out from Canada due to heavy protectionism imposed on them from the Canadian government. Is there any truth in that?

This is the SQ press release announcing the end of YVR service effective April 2009. They blamed it on the global economic downturn.
http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...UK/press_release_news/ne090214.jsp


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25330 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7480 times:

Back in the day, Air Canada did serve Singapore.

Recall it was - L-1011 YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Back in the day, Air Canada did serve Singapore.

Recall it was - L-1011 YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN.

Yes, L-1011-500. It started January 15, 1985. Following from AC's special 75th anniversary history website.
http://75.aircanada.com/timeline/198...ting-off-on-the-longest-route-yet/

If memory correct AC had problems with the UK authorities who complained they were carrying too much 5th freedom traffic. Hardly anyone would fly all the way YYZ-SIN so by the time it got to SIN it was almost all 5th freedom, which is rarely very high-yielding. Same reason why SQ had problems on their YVR route as it had to rely on ICN-YVR 5th freedom traffic and compete with both KE and AC on that sector.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Highly unlikely SIN is anywhere close to the top of AC's priority list of new destinations. Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN also isn't well-located as a connecting hub for Canada. It's too far south. Only works for some peripheral (and small) markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

Strange that CX does so well on the YVR market and not SQ. CX offers double daily while SQ can't even do a few times a week! Why is that?


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Strange that CX does so well on the YVR market and not SQ. CX offers double daily while SQ can't even do a few times a week! Why is that?

Because half of HK, and really, Guangdong, live in Vancouver. Also, it is a non-stop service, whereas YVR was one-stop for SQ.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | QF SYD-DFW | AA DFW-TLH-MIA-DFW | QF DFW-SYD
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Air Canada does have the 777-200LR, which could comfortably handle that mission.

That would comfortably make them even less profitable, so it has all the hallmarks of being true.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Strange that CX does so well on the YVR market and not SQ. CX offers double daily while SQ can't even do a few times a week! Why is that?

Not uncommon for people to call Vancouver Hongcouver, a lot of people went to Canada before the British handover, if I recall correctly if you invested something like $250,000 they would give you residency, people from HKG bought property for over that, it was much cheaper than HKG. The other factor is the good connections from the YVR flights to other regional destinations.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Strange that CX does so well on the YVR market and not SQ. CX offers double daily while SQ can't even do a few times a week! Why is that?

As mentioned previously, geography is a big factor. SIN is too far south to make a good connecting hub for Canada, and it's too far to operate nonstop economically. Even the few passengers that might use SIN to connect to places like KUL/JKT or southern India etc., can do it much more conveniently with one stop rather than two. Apart from the huge HKG immigrant community in YVR, HKG is also a good connecting point to/from mainland China and MNL, both major markets for Canada.

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 12):
Strange that CX does so well on the YVR market and not SQ. CX offers double daily while SQ can't even do a few times a week! Why is that?

Not uncommon for people to call Vancouver Hongcouver, a lot of people went to Canada before the British handover, if I recall correctly if you invested something like $250,000 they would give you residency, people from HKG bought property for over that, it was much cheaper than HKG. The other factor is the good connections from the YVR flights to other regional destinations.

Visit the Vancouver suburb of Richmond (where YVR airport is located) and you will feel like you are in HKG. There are more signs in Chinese than English.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Back in the day, Air Canada did serve Singapore. Recall it was - L-1011 YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN.

Quite right - remember it well. Both L1011s and 747s flew this route.

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fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4717 times:

And they even publicised the flight number in the special livery on this 747 Classic.

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Photo © Marc Hasenbein




fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Back in the day, Air Canada did serve Singapore. Recall it was - L-1011 YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN.

Quite right - remember it well. Both L1011s and 747s flew this route.

The "Singapore 85" decal on the tail doesn't necessarily mean those specific aircraft operated to SIN. Even the Gimli Glider had that decal at the time.


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User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 1019 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
This is the SQ press release announcing the end of YVR service effective April 2009. They blamed it on the global economic downturn.

Didn't that have something to do with Canada only allowing 3 weekly frequency via Korea?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN

My understanding is that SQ was given direct rights, but only 3 weekly for its one-stop through Korea, and that it was lobbying for daily frequency on that route. Bit strange, I think, if it was low yielding. If there is any airline in the world that can charge a premium even on 5th freedoms, its probably SQ.

Either which way, my understanding was that SQ dropped it partly because it was a 3 weekly service (at least according to the BC MPP who appeared at the Senate), and that they would have kept it if they could have gone daily through Korea.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 19):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Very small market, as indicated by SQ's withdrawal from the route some years ago. SQ had to rely on low-yield 5th freedom traffic YVR-ICN traffic to fill their flights. SIN

My understanding is that SQ was given direct rights, but only 3 weekly for its one-stop through Korea, and that it was lobbying for daily frequency on that route. Bit strange, I think, if it was low yielding. If there is any airline in the world that can charge a premium even on 5th freedoms, its probably SQ.

Either which way, my understanding was that SQ dropped it partly because it was a 3 weekly service (at least according to the BC MPP who appeared at the Senate), and that they would have kept it if they could have gone daily through Korea.

Also have to consider the volume of Canada-SIN traffic. If it's almost all 5th freedom as I believe it was, few governments are going to grant that kind of frequency, especially when both AC and KE are operating daily on Canada-ICN. Currently AC daily YVR-ICN and KE 10 x week total (5 each YVR-ICN and YYZ-ICN).

Does SIN-Korea bilateral give SQ daily 5th freedom rights on ICN-YVR?


User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 1019 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
Does SIN-Korea bilateral give SQ daily 5th freedom rights on ICN-YVR?

No idea. But they do allow SQ SFO daily, so I don't think they're against it. The BC MPP was pretty clear that it was a Canada issue (he linked it to AC losing interest in SIN).

Either which way, its not quite clear that SQ was unhappy with YVR in general - maybe was just unhappy about the 3 weekly frequencies that made it uneconomical. If they were allowed daily, they might have still been there. Whether they should be allowed daily - I won't go there on this thread. I think my views are well known enough. The only real question is whether the good folk of the west coast are better off without SQ serving them.


User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 8):
I also remember reading about SQ pulling out from Canada due to heavy protectionism imposed on them from the Canadian government. Is there any truth in that?

There isn't limits on frequency but since there is a transit point needed AC didn't want a daily from any transit point and specified specific ones and ICN isn't one of them.

The same issue applied when AC did YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN, IIRC Singapore didn't allow AC to use VIE as a transit point on this route.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Such a route would need a connection at, lets say NRT or HKG. I don't think that SQ can take the route all the way like SQ does to LAX and EWR. The planes SQ uses for those direct routes were modified in order to save weight and burn fuel, and I'm not sure the 77W can do so.

If anything it would be a 77L non-stop.

Also SQ uses an all business class A345 on these routes, remember SIN-EWR/LAX are 18+ hours and I really don't know a lot of people who would willingly do that flight in Y.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
Because half of HK, and really, Guangdong, live in Vancouver. Also, it is a non-stop service, whereas YVR was one-stop for SQ

From what I heard there are more Hong Kong people in vancouver than people from Canton

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
Not uncommon for people to call Vancouver Hongcouver, a lot of people went to Canada before the British handover, if I recall correctly if you invested something like $250,000 they would give you residency, people from HKG bought property for over that, it was much cheaper than HKG. The other factor is the good connections from the YVR flights to other regional destinations.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
As mentioned previously, geography is a big factor. SIN is too far south to make a good connecting hub for Canada, and it's too far to operate nonstop economically. Even the few passengers that might use SIN to connect to places like KUL/JKT or southern India etc., can do it much more conveniently with one stop rather than two. Apart from the huge HKG immigrant community in YVR, HKG is also a good connecting point to/from mainland China and MNL, both major markets for Canada.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Visit the Vancouver suburb of Richmond (where YVR airport is located) and you will feel like you are in HKG. There are more signs in Chinese than English.

Oh yes. Lots of Hong Kong people in vancouver.

Fair enough


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4972 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 22):
There isn't limits on frequency but since there is a transit point needed AC didn't want a daily from any transit point and specified specific ones and ICN isn't one of them.

These rules are dictated by the Canadian Government, not AC. Some feel the government is against AC, some feel they are favoured ... I think it's a wash.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 22):
The same issue applied when AC did YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN, IIRC Singapore didn't allow AC to use VIE as a transit point on this route.

This is not correct.

This thread explains it well:

*rumor* Info - Any Info On SQ And QR To YYZ? (by A6EGA Aug 9 2012 in Civil Aviation)

However, it invariably ended up in a discussion about Emirati air carriers, as most of these threads do.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
25 ElPistolero : In what way is the Government against AC? ACPPA? I don't recall them doing anything dramatic against AC - though they have taken sides on labor issue
26 longhauler : Like I said ... these threads usually drift. That has nothing at all to do with AC and SIN. If you wish however, to start another thread on the topic
27 9252fly : ...and if it's no trouble,please start by giving it a clear title so that I know to avoid it. The constant thread drifts ruin what can be very intere
28 StarAC17 : My mistake. I know better and that is what you get for posting at midnight when jet-lagged. Thank you for clearing that up. Show a link to that claim
29 ElPistolero : Agreed. To a certain extent. That said, it is difficult to discuss the entry of certain airlines into Canada without referring to available informatio
30 ElPistolero : Can't post links on my phone, so you ll have to google the following: Rob Howard (BC Provincial Air Lead) Ambrish Chandra (U of Toronto economist) Se
31 pnwtraveler : The old addage of, if you repeat something enough times it begins to be true seems to be the mantra of this round and round argument. Like the song o
32 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : I expect SQ's reasons for dropping YVR were as they stated, based on uneconomic operations following the global financial crisis and, although they d
33 Post contains links ElPistolero : ...which provides an interesting contrast with Michael Trethaway's comment on the subject in front of the Senate: "Some of you may have heard about S
34 Viscount724 : I would just point out that SQ codeshares with AC on several daily connections SIN-Canada via both LHR and FRA. That's probably much more profitable
35 ElPistolero : Your word against Trethaway's. A conclusion based on.... what exactly? They couldn't sell premium ticket 3 weekly, but Trethaway and Howard think the
36 longhauler : Except that you and I see several inaccuracies in those diatribes. For example: The treaty still exists and has not changed in the 25 odd years that
37 longhauler : What accusations could they make? They already have unlimited access to Canada, as often as they want, to anywhere in Canada from Singapore. In fact
38 Viscount724 : But they still have to offer competitive fares, and India is one of the most price-sensitive markets, and also very seasonal. Making that kind of 6th
39 Post contains links and images ElPistolero : Do they? Don't they? I don't know what kind of fares they're offering. They don't seem to be having a problem with filling up Indians on their West C
40 Viscount724 : New bilateral was agreed in 2007. Details of such things as 5th freedom rights etc. are shown as "confidential" for now, although it permits any numb
41 longhauler : Yes, we know that. He knows that. SQ knows that ... but they don't wont Joe-Public looking from the outside to know that. It was almost like trying t
42 ElPistolero : 5 years later, its still confidential? A matter of national security, no doubt! I don't care much for this line of argument. Its like asking why ET a
43 ElPistolero : In other words, Rob Howard, an elected member of the provincial legislative assembly, and Michael Trethaway, president of InterVistas Canada, whose c
44 Viscount724 : I also have a recollection that AC was coming under some pressure from the British government for carrying too much 5th freedom traffic beyond LHR, n
45 Post contains links longhauler : I agree, I was really only playing the Devil's Advocate. As they kept saying that there were no daily rights, when everyone knew there were, one had
46 longhauler : This is plausible, as AC was carrying a lot of passengers out of LHR to France, Germany, India and Singapore. They were "tag-on" flights as everythin
47 ElPistolero : Well, unless someone conjures up the bilat, whether it was cancelled or not, and what its provisions were for one-stop service, I don't have much to a
48 Viscount724 : There is a bilateral with Pakistan. https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/pakistan It's true that occasionally international services operate without a bilat
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