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AA 757 Overwing Exit Slide Deployed At LIH W/PIC  
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1367 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18723 times:

Normally this wouldn't be very newsworthy as these things happen quite often but in light of AA's continuing problems with maintenance delays and other issues, I thought I'd post this photo. This is the last thing they need.

AA 757 at LIH


I'm not positive which flight this is, but I believe that it is AA 266 from LIH to LAX. It was scheduled to depart at 1315 local and is now estimated to depart at 0300 tomorrow.

Aloha,
HALFA

[Edited 2012-10-07 17:52:20]


Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18606 times:

Ok, at this point I'm starting to feel kidna bad for AA. With all their previous maintenance issues, I hope this was an accidental deployment by a crewmember and not a maintenance issue (I don't know what kind of maintenance issue could cause an accidental deployment of the slide, but there probably is one).

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18563 times:

My taxi speed and time at both LAX and FLL yesterday on AA was ridiculously slow. We arrived a good 20mins late because of it even when the pilot let us know we were expecting to arrive 5mins early. Walking out of the plane they just looked like they did not want to be there. Just. mean uninterested facial expression. Its pathetic and immature. They are only hurting themselves.

I certainly do hope it was a random issue and not something done purposely. Sadly these days that is the first thing that comes to mind.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18509 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):


I certainly do hope it was a random issue and not something done purposely. Sadly these days that is the first thing that comes to mind.

You can't be serious. Don't be so shallow! Slides are blown wrongly from time to time and it is always an accident (or deliberate by a passenger who couldn't control themselves).



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18440 times:

Anyone got any info why it was deployed? I don't see emergency vehicles around the plane.


Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently onlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 439 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18295 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Anyone got any info why it was deployed? I don't see emergency vehicles around the plane.


If it had been any sort of emergency, there would be multiple slides deployed. I suspect an accidental deployment.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18251 times:

Quoting B757forever (Reply 5):
I suspect an accidental deployment.

It's tough to tell from the picture, but even the window exits at the top of the slide do not appear to be open. L3 is definitely closed.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4008 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18194 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 3):
lides are blown wrongly from time to time and it is always an accident

It happened with Northwest years ago, when their planes were still wearing the bowling shoe scheme. I believe it was an A320.



Ben Soriano
User currently onlineB757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 439 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18146 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
but even the window exits at the top of the slide do not appear to be open


True. All it takes is for the handle on the over-wing exit to be rotated down to start the deploy sequence. Once the "whooshing " sound starts, and they realize what they had just done, they probably pushed the exit back in place hoping it would stop.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3461 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18037 times:

Bad timing for AA for sure, I hope this incident is never made into something it's not, nor overlooked for what it is.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2572 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17659 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
My taxi speed and time at both LAX and FLL yesterday on AA was ridiculously slow. We arrived a good 20mins late because of it even when the pilot let us know we were expecting to arrive 5mins early. Walking out of the plane they just looked like they did not want to be there. Just. mean uninterested facial expression. Its pathetic and immature. They are only hurting themselves.

Unless you are in the cockpit and know what the conditions and traffic are like, all you are doing is imposing your own feelings on the crew. You do not know what they are feeling or thinking.

I say this because I just returned from recurrent simulator training in Miami, and jumpseated on AA, DL, and AS getting to & from there. The AA crews (I was in the cockpit for both of those flights) were kind, professional, and did NOT do anything to slow the normal operations. I had a long talk with both crews, and they are as upset as the passengers at the mechanical problems facing the company. The pilot sick rate for the last month had not changed from the same month the previous year. Pilots are not 'calling in sick' to hurt the company. Sure, they all wish the airline was doing better, and that they had better conditions & pay. But the troubles AA is going through right now is not caused by the employees. They are working as hard as they can to give excellent customer service.

The conditions at LAX are miserable for anyone flying there now, with the construction work on one of the south runways blocking off a lot of the access routes to the ramp. It was a real pain trying to get in and out of there this afternoon, with all traffic going slower than normal.

And as for the 'mean uninterested facial expressions', all I can say is grow up, and stop believing everything you read on the Internet gossip sites. Your're just imposing your pre-disposed opinion on them without knowing what is really going on. The employees of AA do care, and they are doing a good job.

HAL

[Edited 2012-10-07 20:30:32]


One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17214 times:

The slide deployed is an overwing slide, which are always armed. The only way to deploy one is to open the emergency exit window. It's not at a door. My guess is there was some kind of malfunction. As for the extended delay, that's curious too as a/c can fly with an inoperative exit slide. Perhaps there weren't maintenance personnel available to remove the slide.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26169 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17147 times:

LIH is not an AA maintenance station. They use on call/contract maintenance.

For bigger issues they need to fly in folks and parts.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16852 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 11):
As for the extended delay, that's curious too as a/c can fly with an inoperative exit slide.

MEL: Any or all may be inoperative or missing provided flight remains within 50 nm from land.

I suspect that is a bit difficult to do considering the plane is at LIH.   



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16775 times:

AAR90, are you sure that MEL quote is not specifically referring to slide-rafts?

The overwing slide is not a slide-raft. Hard to believe that an aircraft could be dispatched with NO slides operative. Easier to accept if rafts (either slide-raft or in-ceiling raft) were inop and flight flew close to land, no?

I believe aircraft can be flown with a designated number of in-op/missing slides, but there may be seating restrictions, such as nobody seated within x number of rows of the inop exit, or just an overall total passenger count reduction.


User currently offlineWesternDC1010 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 329 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16774 times:

Would this a/c be N609AA / 5ED? I was on traveling on 5ED on both AA 265 KLAX - PHLI (9/26), which also operated AA 266 PHLI - KLAX on 10/4 and I'd noticed a silver safety seal near one of the exits on that side of the a/c, but this was the forward most over wing exit. I'm sure that this is probably normal to see, but it caught my eye, nonetheless. It would be very interesting to know if 265/266 was operated by 5ED the day of this incident.

[r][o][n]
Western DC-10-10



Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15633 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
It happened with Northwest years ago, when their planes were still wearing the bowling shoe scheme. I believe it was an A320.

It has happened to every airline years ago.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15541 times:

Quoting B757forever (Reply 5):
If it had been any sort of emergency, there would be multiple slides deployed. I suspect an accidental deployment.

Looks likely the case.....Shouldn't there be an MEL option if the seating capacity of the flight is reduced.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinecrapper1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13910 times:

How likely is it someones bag could get caught on the handle as they stow it under the seat and deploy a slide by mistake. while boarding if the turn was tight and people rushing to put stuff away to keep the flight on time

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13607 times:
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Quoting crapper1 (Reply 18):

I think that is very unlikely as the handle to open the widow is (1) way above the bottom of the seat, and (2) has a cover to sort of prevent people from inadvertently pulling on it.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12576 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 19):
I think that is very unlikely as the handle to open the widow is (1) way above the bottom of the seat, and (2) has a cover to sort of prevent people from inadvertently pulling on it

Maybe to open the widow, But to open the exit door the handle is on the top of the door above the window.



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineN312RC From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 2683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12538 times:

I would suspect AA uses United line MX there like everyone else does for ETOPS checks...


N/A
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1367 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11316 times:

According to AA's website, flight AA266 from LIH to LAX did not leave at 0300 this morning. It was cancelled.


Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11316 times:

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 14):
AAR90, are you sure that MEL quote is not specifically referring to slide-rafts?

Yes, it was specific to slide-rafts; however, that was as close as I could come to ANY slide being MEL legal.

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 14):
I believe aircraft can be flown with a designated number of in-op/missing slides, but there may be seating restrictions, such as nobody seated within x number of rows of the inop exit, or just an overall total passenger count reduction.

Apparently AA does not allow ANY slide to be inoperative EXCEPT slide-rafts --due to capacity limits as a floatation device. Neither the 757 nor 737 MEL's list exit slides (didn't check other acft); therefore, they MUST be operable for every departure.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11113 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 20):
Maybe to open the widow, But to open the exit door the handle is on the top of the door above the window.

That's what we're saying...the window handle is at the top. There is no "exit door handle." One handle activated to remove window. Slide pack is deployed. Manual inflation handle is in the lower forward corner *inside* the sill. It can't inadvertently be deployed like a door can.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10963 times:

It is not a window, it is an emergency exit hatch of which the window is part of the hatch assembly.

User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10797 times:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 25):

It is not a window, it is an emergency exit hatch of which the window is part of the hatch assembly.

No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a 4 door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with 6 doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 35
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10930 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
LIH is not an AA maintenance station. They use on call/contract maintenance.

For bigger issues they need to fly in folks and parts.

Regardless, AA must have some maintenance staff in HNL who could hop over to assist UA staff if they indeed use them.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 23):
Apparently AA does not allow ANY slide to be inoperative EXCEPT slide-rafts --due to capacity limits as a floatation device. Neither the 757 nor 737 MEL's list exit slides (didn't check other acft); therefore, they MUST be operable for every departure.

It seems hard to imagine that AA would dispatch an aircraft on an ETOPS (or even over ground) mission without functioning overwing slide-rafts. There's just too much risk if something happens.


User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):
Quoting yeelep (Reply 25):

It is not a window, it is an emergency exit hatch of which the window is part of the hatch assembly.

No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a 4 door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with 6 doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.

I am talking about the overwing exits, they are not windows. Again they are termed "emergency exit hatch" by Boeing. You are using the incorrect terminology.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10075 times:

Well, they just cancelled the flight so I guess it's a bit more complex of a fix?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL266


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10037 times:

The only reason anyone would have to open an overwing door other than in an emergency would be to replace the window shade. Since LIH is a contract maintenance station for AA we can check that one off as not being a reason since AA would never schedule a job like that for LIH.

Some AA mechanics out of LAX are going to get a nice field trip!  


User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9991 times:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 28):
I am talking about the overwing exits, they are not windows. Again they are termed "emergency exit hatch" by Boeing. You are using the incorrect terminology.

Semantics. We all know what an emergency exit window is, whether they're called a window or a hatch. In fact, they're even referenced as such many times in safety manuals and briefing cards. They are interchangeable terms.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 27):
It seems hard to imagine that AA would dispatch an aircraft on an ETOPS (or even over ground) mission without functioning overwing slide-rafts. There's just too much risk if something happens.

The overwing exits (window exits) are equipped with slides only, not slide/life rafts. The overwing exit slide is completely useless in a ditching, and in fact, overwing exits on the 757 are only to be used if the other exits are unusable. And even still, you wouldn't use the slide there even if you used that exit. This a/c is equipped with six slide/life rafts, two slides and three additional rafts. This a/c is also certified to evacuate in under 30 seconds using only only half the exits.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):
No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a 4 door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with 6 doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.

All of AA's 757s have the same exit configuration: six exit doors and four over wing (window) exits. 757s have either six or eight doors, depending on configuration, but never four.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9827 posts, RR: 52
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9882 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 27):
Regardless, AA must have some maintenance staff in HNL who could hop over to assist UA staff if they indeed use them.

At small airports, typically AA or any other airline would have zero maintenance staff based there. They have a contract with another airline or contract company at the station to cover anything that needs to be done. It wouldn't surprise me if they use UA which has maintenance staff on the islands and a significant base in HNL.

At small airports, the only things that have to be handled are typically deferrals. Airlines try to prevent any other line items done like tire replacements, etc from being done outside main maintenance airports.

You'd be surprised at how few airports each airline has maintenance staff at. They have really cut into maintenance. Airlines serving airports with less than a dozen flights rarely have full time maintenance staff in the United States.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 27):

It seems hard to imagine that AA would dispatch an aircraft on an ETOPS (or even over ground) mission without functioning overwing slide-rafts. There's just too much risk if something happens.

It's also illegal. If there's no MEL (Minimum equipment list) deferral available, then it must be working.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 27):
Regardless, AA must have some maintenance staff in HNL who could hop over to assist UA staff if they indeed use them.

AA has no maintenance personel on any of the islands.


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 981 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8916 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 10):
Unless you are in the cockpit and know what the conditions and traffic are like, all you are doing is imposing your own feelings on the crew. You do not know what they are feeling or thinking...

...The pilot sick rate for the last month had not changed from the same month the previous year...

...And as for the 'mean uninterested facial expressions', all I can say is grow up, and stop believing everything you read on the Internet gossip sites. Your're just imposing your pre-disposed opinion on them without knowing what is really going on. The employees of AA do care, and they are doing a good job.

HAL

Thank you, HAL, nice post and one that needed to be made.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20361 posts, RR: 59
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8208 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 32):
It's also illegal. If there's no MEL (Minimum equipment list) deferral available, then it must be working.

If the HA staff at LIH could not fix the problem, could the aircraft be legally ferried to HNL (which might involve straying more than 50nm from land) with only crew aboard?


User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8104 times:
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Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 32):
At small airports, the only things that have to be handled are typically deferrals. Airlines try to prevent any other line items done like tire replacements, etc from being done outside main maintenance airports.

I got stuck for almost 5 hours in Melbourne, FL once because the part to fix the plane had to fly from Atlanta, to Orlando, where it met the mechanics ... and the part + the mechanics then traveled to Melbourne via company pickup truck.

We all cheered when we saw it pull up by the airplane.

 


User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5522 posts, RR: 17
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

I'm unconvinced that all of these recent incidents are accidents. All of my recent AA flights have been delayed. My brother's flights RIC-DFW-LAS and back were all significantly delayed. They were delayed to the point where the gate agents' statements were farcical. Until AA gets their act together, I'll pay more to fly someone else.

User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8691 posts, RR: 16
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Quoting Litz (Reply 36):

I sent you an IM regarding this.

I would guess a FAA wavier would need to be obtained in order to ferry the plane out to HNL because of the MEL related issue where it can be fixed. Can you confrim this AAR90??

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

I'm sure some of the employees are disgruntled at what is going on. A lose seat here and a slow taxi there only adds to the problems. Not everyone in a situation like this is always going to give 100%, you are always going to have, no matter the size of the group, those that purposley do things to cause a disruption. Its those people who give the rest of the hard working people a bad name, guilty by association.

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 38):
I would guess a FAA wavier would need to be obtained in order to ferry the plane out to HNL because of the MEL related issue where it can be fixed. Can you confrim this AAR90??

AA OpSpec lists certain specific individuals at AA who have FAA authorization to permit such ferry flights under FAR-91. In those situations, the minimum slide/raft required is one+one. One slide (nearest the cockpit) and one raft (nearest the exit slide) or a slide/raft combination. If working F/A's aboard, they must be seated closest to the exit with the armed/operating slide. No other non-working persons permitted.

A special "spotting message" is required to be carried aboard (or at least it used to be). I don't have the OpSpec reference, but have flown many such flights.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5002 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 38):

As AAR90 mentioned you do not even need to contact the FAA for a ferry flight approval. The airline I worked for had a section in the flight operations manual that spelled out the steps needed to ferry the plane. If I remember correctly a management pilot, the on duty maintenance controller and the mechanic signing off the log book would sign the ferry flight permit that stated why the plane was being ferried, the planned route and any special conditions needed. The permit would be stapled to the log book page the flight was conducted on. I've ferried 60 plus aircraft in my career and never once was required to contact the FAA.

My thought would be they will just fly in a new slide and mechanics to fix it. Much cheaper then ferrying it out.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20361 posts, RR: 59
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 40):
A special "spotting message" is required to be carried aboard (or at least it used to be). I don't have the OpSpec reference, but have flown many such flights.

What is a "spotting message"?


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3495 posts, RR: 46
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
What is a "spotting message"?

An internal official communications from Maintenance Operations Control (MOC) authorizing a ferry flight for an aircraft that will not meet normal dispatch requirements. In this instance, a plane with an inoperative escape slide. The spotting message will include limits/requirements to be followed (i.e. "working crew only") as well as any special instructions to the dispatcher/crew (i.e. slide closest to cockpit must be armed, etc.).

Without a spotting message, no AA dispatcher will even begin the flight planning process.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 31):

Quoting yeelep (Reply 28):
I am talking about the overwing exits, they are not windows. Again they are termed "emergency exit hatch" by Boeing. You are using the incorrect terminology.

Semantics. We all know what an emergency exit window is, whether they're called a window or a hatch. In fact, they're even referenced as such many times in safety manuals and briefing cards. They are interchangeable terms.

Thank you for the back up...I'm glad you know what I mean. The L/R3 door/hatch (like on the ex-TWA birds) is equip with a slide, but not a slide raft. And the window/hatch is also only a slide and not a raft.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 31):
Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):
No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a 4 door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with 6 doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.

All of AA's 757s have the same exit configuration: six exit doors and four over wing (window) exits. 757s have either six or eight doors, depending on configuration, but never four.

Oops! My bad. You are 100% correct. I realize there are no 4 door versions, I was typing quickly and missed the "6" in this case and typed "4." Then throw in our -300 with 8 & 4! LOL.

Thanks for not biting my head off for my typo!

For REF:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 26):
No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a 4 door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with 6 doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.

I would like to edit my post to reflect the ACTUAL numbers I should have been using:

"No. That is *not* the L3 exit. That a/c is a **6** door, 4 window model. The picture is that of a WINDOW/overwing slide. On a/c with **8** doors, the L3 slide is straight and doesn't go near the wing.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 43):
An internal official communications from Maintenance Operations Control (MOC) authorizing a ferry flight for an aircraft that will not meet normal dispatch requirements. In this instance, a plane with an inoperative escape slide. The spotting message will include limits/requirements to be followed (i.e. "working crew only") as well as any special instructions to the dispatcher/crew (i.e. slide closest to cockpit must be armed, etc.).

Without a spotting message, no AA dispatcher will even begin the flight planning process.

My guess is they flew in the part and the manpower to get the aircraft back in service for a revenue flight.


User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 38):
Quoting Litz (Reply 36):


I sent you an IM regarding this.

I would guess a FAA wavier would need to be obtained in order to ferry the plane out to HNL because of the MEL related issue where it can be fixed. Can you confrim this AAR90??

KH
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 40):
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 38):
I would guess a FAA wavier would need to be obtained in order to ferry the plane out to HNL because of the MEL related issue where it can be fixed. Can you confrim this AAR90??

AA OpSpec lists certain specific individuals at AA who have FAA authorization to permit such ferry flights under FAR-91. In those situations, the minimum slide/raft required is one+one. One slide (nearest the cockpit) and one raft (nearest the exit slide) or a slide/raft combination. If working F/A's aboard, they must be seated closest to the exit with the armed/operating slide. No other non-working persons permitted.

A special "spotting message" is required to be carried aboard (or at least it used to be). I don't have the OpSpec reference, but have flown many such flights.

AAR90 is spot on....no pun intended....The MOD of MOC/SOC has the authority to issue a ferry permit. It is a delegated function as part of the 121 OpSpec. The FAA is meerly notified. We do a lot of these everyday. There is a checklist that goes with the process to ensure everything is done.

A line crew can perform the ferry flight unless the spotting message says otherwise.

N737AA


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