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USAirways/Delta Terminal LGA Owner  
User currently onlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 429 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

In the 70's, the Eastern terminal was east of the central terminal at LGA. Then New York Air built the commonly known USAirways terminal. Continental/TI bought New York Air and inherited the terminal at the same time as they bought People Express and decided to build up EWR. USAir bought Trump Shuttle and started leasing the LGA terminal from Continental. I know that the Terminal was still owned by Continental in the last 10 years, as listed as an asset on their 10k report.

Now with Delta moving into the terminal (and I predict eventually USAirways moving out, AA merger or not) I was wondering who owns it. Did United inherit it? Did Continental sell it earlier? Did Continental never really own it, just have a long term lease?

On a separate note, why don't Delta and USAirways just trade terminals? Splitting them and building a bridge just seems expensive and pointless.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

Well, actually it was only the Eastern Shuttle terminal, the rest of EA's ops was still in CTB. After EA got mixed up with Texas Air, the new western portion was to house EA & CO . So CO, & therefore now UA is the owner of the long term lease. PANYNJ actually owns the property.


I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):

On a separate note, why don't Delta and USAirways just trade terminals? Splitting them and building a bridge just seems expensive and pointless.

Because it would cost Delta gates?



yep.
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

On a.net, the term owned is used frequently when referring to NYC area terminals.

None of the terminals are owned by any airline. The airlines have long term leases from the Port Authority. New York City in turn owns the airports and has leased them to the PANYNJ for 99 years starting around 2002


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
On a.net, the term owned is used frequently when referring to NYC area terminals.

None of the terminals are owned by any airline. The airlines have long term leases from the Port Authority. New York City in turn owns the airports and has leased them to the PANYNJ for 99 years starting around 2002

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the PANYNJ owns the land on which the terminals sit, but the terminal buildings themselves are owned by the airlines. I believe the long-term leases are for the rights to use the land.


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the PANYNJ owns the land on which the terminals sit, but the terminal buildings themselves are owned by the airlines. I believe the long-term leases are for the rights to use the land.

The City of New York owns the land (airport) and PANYNJ are just the landlords.. They are two different entities.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
but I'm pretty sure the PANYNJ owns the land on which the terminals sit, but the terminal buildings themselves are owned by the airlines.

Actually they don't, the City of New York owns the land for JFK and LGA and the City of Newark owns the land for EWR. The Port Authority has long term leases that were recently renewed (within the last ten years) for their airport properties for a period of 99 years.

The Port Authority does own the 12 acres of the World Trade Center, and during the early stages of the rebuilding Mayor Bloomberg tried to do a land swap. The City was going to cede the land under JFK and LGA to the Port Authority in exchange for the World Trade Center site. Politics and a bunch of the usual distractions jumped in on the deal and brought it to a halt. It's a shame, it would have been a good deal for the Port Authority. The rebuilding of the World Trade Center, somewhere around $20 Billion, has been dragging the agency's finances for years to the detriment of the other capital projects.

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
. Continental/TI bought New York Air and inherited the terminal at the same time as they bought People Express and decided to build up EWR. USAir bought Trump Shuttle and started leasing the LGA terminal from Continental.

Actually CO had plans to move in to the new LGA terminal, after Eastern Shut down in 1991 CO purchased their slots at LGA (minus the previously sold Trump Shuttle) and opened a mini hub. CO had nonstops from 1991-1992 from LGA to:
MIA, FLL, RSW, PBI, MCO, TPA, SRQ, ATL, DTW, CMH, BUF etc.. When they entered bankruptcy they sold the slots and leased the terminal under construction to US.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
The City of New York owns the land (airport) and PANYNJ are just the landlords.. They are two different entities.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
Actually they don't, the City of New York owns the land for JFK and LGA and the City of Newark owns the land for EWR. The Port Authority has long term leases that were recently renewed (within the last ten years) for their airport properties for a period of 99 years.

Yes, that's right. I forgot that detail. But I still think I'm correct that the airlines (except for some exceptions like the CTB at LGA, T4 at JFK, and probably all of EWR) own the terminal buildings. I was just trying to distinguish between the ownership of the land and the ownership of the structures that sit on the land.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):

On a separate note, why don't Delta and USAirways just trade terminals? Splitting them and building a bridge just seems expensive and pointless.

Other factors aside, did you consider the possibility that "trading" terminals could have been equally costly and far more operationally disruptive to both airlines? Given that both facilities were owned, operated, and configured to support the operations of US and DL/NW, considerable fit-out of spaces could have resulted in all areas of the terminals. Relocating airlines between different airport facilities can be quite costly, especially when airline-branded clubs and gate lounges have to be re-done.

The way I see it, DL and US avoided having to jointly refurbish and reconfigure what essentially are three piers and two terminal processors in their entirety. Instead, DL is paying to refurbish one pier and construct a bridge while US has minimal costs. Other than the fit-out of a new US Airways Club, has US had to do any other construction works associated with this?

As much as we may hate them, there really is a strong case for more common-use facilities at America's airports...

[Edited 2012-10-08 08:47:51]

User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
USAirways

And while we're at it, there's a space between US and A in US Airways. If you don't believe me, go to their website and see how they spell it themselves.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 8):
DL/NW

NW is LONG gone. You can say just DL.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 10):
NW is LONG gone. You can say just DL.

The terminal was indeed originally configured to support the operations of DL and NW.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 11):
The terminal was indeed originally configured to support the operations of DL and NW.

Right but we are talking present day which is configured to support DL.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 12):
Right but we are talking present day which is configured to support DL.

I wasn't in that sentence. You may be.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 8):
As much as we may hate them, there really is a strong case for more common-use facilities at America's airports...

  

I don't hate them at all. I have been saying this for years on A.Net...and I always get rebuffed. Thanks for agreeing with me.

My question is this. I agree about the terminal swap, but I think the wrong terminals were mentioned. What I think should have happened is for US to take over the MAT and then move all the DL flights back into the existing US terminal. Because DL does still have a split operation in LGA even with the terminal combination, and this would eliminate that very problem. I think the MAT is sufficient for what the US operation in LGA has become.


User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 11):

  

as you can see here-----i guess this is from the 80s before the west expansion of Eastern Shuttle terminal

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7687/lgac.jpg



I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
On a separate note, why don't Delta and USAirways just trade terminals? Splitting them and building a bridge just seems expensive and pointless.

C gates cannot accomodate 757s and 767s. Delta would still need terminal D.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
C gates cannot accomodate 757s and 767s. Delta would still need terminal D.

I can swear there is an Eastern 757 in that picture pushing off Terminal C. Just sayin.

You could easily have meant "in today's configuration", but wanted to clarify since I don't see why you wouldn't be able to accommodate 757's there.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 17):

I can swear there is an Eastern 757 in that picture pushing off Terminal C. Just sayin.

It's an A300, Eastern used A300s on the LGA-BOS part of their Shuttle operation. Eastern Shuttle flights operated from the Eastern Shuttle Terminal and all other Eastern flights operated from Concourse A.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

There's actually two of them



Does anyone have a pic of the connecter construction?

By the way, are we saying that US Airways never used 757 @ LGA?

[Edited 2012-10-08 13:37:31]


I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
Does anyone have a pic of the connecter construction?

Why didn't you post this an hour earlier!



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
Does anyone have a pic of the connecter construction?

I'll take some tomorrow. Congrats on 11 years at A.net!

Regarding the 757s....I asked the Delta station manager about that and she said that 75s couldn't fit at C gates. I 'spect she would know!

I've wondered why A321's fit, and not 757's?

[Edited 2012-10-08 14:55:54]


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6631 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 21):

Thanks, 11 years of fightin' & fussin'   

I lived up there in the early to mid 90s & I dont recall seeing US 757s



I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

How do the wingspans of the two airplanes compare? That might be your answer right there.

User currently offlineSeatMap246 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2502 times:

US Air definitely operated 1 or 2 757 flights from LGA in the mid to late 90s. I believe it departed in the morning for PIT or PHL and may have continued onwards to LAX. I am pretty sure it departed from the pier on the far left from one of the very last gates (I think on the left side).

25 DeltAirlines : US was operating a daily 757-200 to PIT as late as Summer 2001; through Fall 2000 they had 2x 757 to CLT and 1x 757 to PIT. Not sure if the MAT could
26 burnsie28 : Terminal C might not be marked anymore for 757's. However, I would think that it was weird that US has not flown a 75 into LGA since the 1990's. Some
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