LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14459 times:
At this stage, it's not very extenstive at all.
There may be reasons (eg regulatory) why so few destinations are currently included in the codeshare agreement and there isn’t parity in the codeshares offered to passengers of Air France and KLM and these may just be tentative steps in advance of deeper co-operation but, compared to the hype of a ground-breaking deal and the Qantas/Emirates tie-up, this is a bit underwhelming.
I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).
I was even speculating that it would be so extensive that it would be a precurser to EY joining SkyTeam, but in reality it isn't anywhere close.
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
OzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2870 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14051 times:
Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 2): I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).
KLM is quoted as offering the MEL and SYD connection. AF will probably announce the same closer to the end of the QF tie-up in Mar 2013.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
r2rho From Spain, joined Feb 2007, 3545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13499 times:
Interesting (and expected) development. Summing it up, AF-KL get access to several Asian destinations via AUH, while EY gets access to several secondary EU destinations vial CDG / AMS. With AB, AF-KL get access to Eastern European destinations via TXL, while AB gets access to secondary French destinations via CDG and to secondary UK destinations via AMS.
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4): I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...
This too I wonder... so far it is only some codeshares, but who knows. While OW would be of no help to AB for the French destinations, they are effectively bypassing BA to the UK by using KL at AMS...
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13182 times:
Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 7): Will this mean that Etihad will be starting flights to Amsterdam?
That would be nice but the article states that KL and AF passengers will be able to connect on EY's network from Abu Dhabi so for the time being EY themselves will not be flying to AMS. Maybe it's a future route and that goes for the other Middle Eastern carriers as well. AMS in my opinion is one of the few main gateways in Europe that is not yet served by all three major Middle Eastern carriers (EK, EY, QR). I think over time that will change. The same goes for MIA in my opinion.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10872 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13179 times:
I do unerstand that EY wanted the feed from BER and the additional feed from DUS as well, this gives some good options for India and far east / Australia traffic.
But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.
Scheduling to European points makes sense with early morning and late afternoon departures, making same day trips possible. That leaves out connecting European traffic. I said in the other thread that both AF and KL comb the German market since 6 decades. What could bring AB to them they don't already have?
This whole set-up makes little tonon-sense.
IIRC AB just invested some 40 Million € in joining OW. Congratulations, unless OW and Sky Team merge that was money down the drain.
Alliances make sense in long distance hub to hib traffic as well as hub to spoke and in European traffic it makes sense in bundling flights from secondary and tertiary airports to a hub and disztributing that out of there to secondary and tertiary airports. That's what KLM does successfully without AB, to some extend AF as well.
The primary airports between them have direbt flights.
As are result of this agreement ETIHAD will have multiple codeshares in Europe with EI, OK, AF, KL, AB leading to hub operations at several European stations, such as AMS, BER, CDG, DUB, PRG:
Herewith an example of EY operations in Winter 2012/2013 at AMS:
- arr. 06.05 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:00 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 07:00 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:10 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:50 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:55 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 08:10 Cardiff EY 1059 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 08:10 Newcastle EY 0953 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:20 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 08:30 Cardiff EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:30 Newcastle EY XXX Etihad Airways E90 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:40 Prague EY 7860 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 09:25 Prague EY 7859 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 10.45 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- arr. 12:15 Dublin EY 7910 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- arr. 14:05 Dublin EY 7912 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 15:00 Dublin EY 7913 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 17:00 Dublin EY 7915 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
An interesting strategy for Europe, quite different from what EK is doing.
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2353 posts, RR: 41
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11114 times:
Quoting miaintl (Reply 15):
If ab fully join skyteam than that will be the end of it's service to MIA. AB service to Miami is largely dependent on oneworld feed. I wonder if BA will allow AB to join skyteam without a fight.
Termination will in any case be in the alliance contract. Therefore it could be that AB will sign many codeshare agreements that go beyond their one world membership, as it may be very costly to cancel one world participation and AB does lack cash right now.
SQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9713 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.
Its just an idea, but maybe EY future plans for AB are to use them as a feeder for flights outside of Europe only. Going east feeding EY and going west feeding AF/KL (when we are talking about long haul flights). Finally keeping a few high density seating layout equipped WB's for leisure routes.
This is based on the assumption that AF/KL might be more important for EY than AB.
TWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 3798 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9128 times:
Like I said in another post, will we see alliance hopping soon? I can see tie-ups with AB/ET and AF/KL with Virgin Australia and DL.
So... QR goes to OW, ET goes to ST, and EK (the airline that all the other airlines love to hate) will hopefully go to Star? Or not since Star has been quoted to not want a Gulf carrier. What if, due to the tie-up, EK joins star and drags QF with them (or vice-verse)?