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AF/KLM And ETIHAD/Air Berlin Parnership Announced  
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 989 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13282 times:

AF/KLM and ETIHAD/Air Berlin have announced an extensive codeshare partnership today:

http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pr...rberlin-announce-new-partnerships/

Extensive codesharing through AUH, AMS, CDG and BER.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13291 times:

At this stage, it's not very extenstive at all.

There may be reasons (eg regulatory) why so few destinations are currently included in the codeshare agreement and there isn’t parity in the codeshares offered to passengers of Air France and KLM and these may just be tentative steps in advance of deeper co-operation but, compared to the hype of a ground-breaking deal and the Qantas/Emirates tie-up, this is a bit underwhelming.


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13184 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
this is a bit underwhelming.

I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).

I was even speculating that it would be so extensive that it would be a precurser to EY joining SkyTeam, but in reality it isn't anywhere close.

Kind Regards,

Team



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12883 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 2):
I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).

KLM is quoted as offering the MEL and SYD connection. AF will probably announce the same closer to the end of the QF tie-up in Mar 2013.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2526 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12402 times:

I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2736 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12331 times:

Interesting (and expected) development. Summing it up, AF-KL get access to several Asian destinations via AUH, while EY gets access to several secondary EU destinations vial CDG / AMS. With AB, AF-KL get access to Eastern European destinations via TXL, while AB gets access to secondary French destinations via CDG and to secondary UK destinations via AMS.

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4):
I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...

This too I wonder... so far it is only some codeshares, but who knows. While OW would be of no help to AB for the French destinations, they are effectively bypassing BA to the UK by using KL at AMS...


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12262 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4):
I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...

Interesting question, AB just joint OneWorld but EY owns a big part of AB to my knowledge so if EY will join SkyTeam what will happen to AB's tie-up with OneWorld?

A388


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1928 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12200 times:

Will this mean that Etihad will be starting flights to Amsterdam?

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineFocker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12127 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 7):
Will this mean that Etihad will be starting flights to Amsterdam?

That would seem to make more sense than flying to BRU, IMHO.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12014 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 7):
Will this mean that Etihad will be starting flights to Amsterdam?

Cheers!

That would be nice but the article states that KL and AF passengers will be able to connect on EY's network from Abu Dhabi so for the time being EY themselves will not be flying to AMS. Maybe it's a future route and that goes for the other Middle Eastern carriers as well. AMS in my opinion is one of the few main gateways in Europe that is not yet served by all three major Middle Eastern carriers (EK, EY, QR). I think over time that will change. The same goes for MIA in my opinion.

A388


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9656 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12011 times:

I do unerstand that EY wanted the feed from BER and the additional feed from DUS as well, this gives some good options for India and far east / Australia traffic.

But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.

Scheduling to European points makes sense with early morning and late afternoon departures, making same day trips possible. That leaves out connecting European traffic. I said in the other thread that both AF and KL comb the German market since 6 decades. What could bring AB to them they don't already have?

This whole set-up makes little tonon-sense.

IIRC AB just invested some 40 Million € in joining OW. Congratulations, unless OW and Sky Team merge that was money down the drain.

Alliances make sense in long distance hub to hib traffic as well as hub to spoke and in European traffic it makes sense in bundling flights from secondary and tertiary airports to a hub and disztributing that out of there to secondary and tertiary airports. That's what KLM does successfully without AB, to some extend AF as well.

The primary airports between them have direbt flights.

Where's the beef for AB, more where's the gravy?



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11971 times:

I wonder if this will also mean EY operating new AUS/NZ destinations (same for QR if they finally join OW this week). So far, QR offers two destinations, EY three and EK seven.

MEL: EK, EY, QR

BNE: EK, EY
SYD: EK, EY

PER: EK, QR

ADL: EK
AKL: EK
CHC: EK


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11861 times:

The AF/KL - ETIHAD/AirBerlin agreement results in the following schedule adjustments:

KLM starts non-stop AMS-AUH-AMS operations on 28 October 2012. The impact KL's previous en-route stop in BAH is as yet unclear.

- NEW: dep. 10:50 AMS - arr. 20:20 AUH KL 0437 Non-Stop A332 Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Sat
- OLD: dep. 13:40 AMS - arr. 23:50 AUH KL 0455 stop BAH A332

- OLD: dep. 01:00 AUH - arr. 05:05 AMS KL 0455 Non-Stop (was triangle flight AMS-BAH-AUH-AMS)
- NEW dep. 01:45 AUH - arr. 06:05 AMS KL 0438 Non-Stop A332 Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sun

As are result of this agreement ETIHAD will have multiple codeshares in Europe with EI, OK, AF, KL, AB leading to hub operations at several European stations, such as AMS, BER, CDG, DUB, PRG:

Herewith an example of EY operations in Winter 2012/2013 at AMS:

- arr. 06.05 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:00 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 07:00 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:10 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:50 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:55 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 08:10 Cardiff EY 1059 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 08:10 Newcastle EY 0953 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:20 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 08:30 Cardiff EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:30 Newcastle EY XXX Etihad Airways E90 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:40 Prague EY 7860 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 09:25 Prague EY 7859 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 10.45 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- arr. 12:15 Dublin EY 7910 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- arr. 14:05 Dublin EY 7912 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 15:00 Dublin EY 7913 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 17:00 Dublin EY 7915 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI

An interesting strategy for Europe, quite different from what EK is doing.


User currently offline_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10503 times:

Hmmmmm... Air Berlin announces ORD service just as AF finally pulls out for good. And EY all ready well established in ORD.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2214 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10200 times:

Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 13):
Hmmmmm... Air Berlin announces ORD service just as AF finally pulls out for good. And EY all ready well established in ORD.

AB and EY both have AA as a partner in ORD.

AF's service on CDG-ORD is being taken over by DL as part of their joint venture so no service loss there.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

If ab fully join skyteam than that will be the end of it's service to MIA. AB service to Miami is largely dependent on oneworld feed. I wonder if BA will allow AB to join skyteam without a fight.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2214 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 15):

If ab fully join skyteam than that will be the end of it's service to MIA. AB service to Miami is largely dependent on oneworld feed. I wonder if BA will allow AB to join skyteam without a fight.

Termination will in any case be in the alliance contract. Therefore it could be that AB will sign many codeshare agreements that go beyond their one world membership, as it may be very costly to cancel one world participation and AB does lack cash right now.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9800 times:
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Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 13):
just as AF finally pulls out for good

AF equipment is scheduled to be back on ORD-CDG next summer. This winter, like last, will see a DL 763ER operating the route for both DL and AF.


User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8628 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.

Plus there is Czech Airlines. There are cooperating with Etihad already http://www.csa.cz/en/portal/quicklinks/eti_coop/eti_coop_new.htm . And OK's Eastern Europe connections are not too bad either.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlinesscaf001 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8545 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 17):

Unfortunately, reservation is closed for AF664 in S13 :

AF 664 CDG/2E
10:30 ORD/5
12:30 332/0

JC CC DC IC ZC WC SC AC YC BC MC UC KC HC LC QC TC EC NC RC VC XC GS


User currently offlineSQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8545 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.

Its just an idea, but maybe EY future plans for AB are to use them as a feeder for flights outside of Europe only. Going east feeding EY and going west feeding AF/KL (when we are talking about long haul flights). Finally keeping a few high density seating layout equipped WB's for leisure routes.

This is based on the assumption that AF/KL might be more important for EY than AB.

Thoughts?


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8049 times:
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Quoting sscaf001 (Reply 19):
Unfortunately, reservation is closed for AF664 in S13 :

AF 664 CDG/2E
10:30 ORD/5
12:30 332/0

JC CC DC IC ZC WC SC AC YC BC MC UC KC HC LC QC TC EC NC RC VC XC GS

Where are you looking? I still see AF667/664 to be bookable in GDS, delta.com, Expedia, etc.,- I tried dates in June and July 2013, and they all show the flight operating with AF metal.


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

Like I said in another post, will we see alliance hopping soon? I can see tie-ups with AB/ET and AF/KL with Virgin Australia and DL.

So... QR goes to OW, ET goes to ST, and EK (the airline that all the other airlines love to hate) will hopefully go to Star? Or not since Star has been quoted to not want a Gulf carrier. What if, due to the tie-up, EK joins star and drags QF with them (or vice-verse)?



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7839 times:
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Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 22):
AB/ET
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 22):
ET goes to ST

It's EY = Etihad. ET = Ethiopian which is already in Star.


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

So who is going to fly a two-stop routing when there are many one stops available? How low yielding must this traffic be?


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
25 r2rho : Agree. I see the sense in AB-EY and AF-KL-EY cooperation. But AB-AF-KL is strange.... AF-KL don't need AB to tap into the German market, they do that
26 MarkusMUC : That are fascinating times. : ) Air Berlin joins oneworld. Emirates allies with Qantas. Etihad allies with Air France-KLM and Air Berlin. Qatar Airway
27 PanHAM : I would not say that they don't have a plan. Working to make all sections and parts of the business profitable and self-sustainable is quite a good p
28 LHRFlyer : From what has said at the press conference yesterday, everything points to Qantas staying in oneworld.
29 Rara : Exactly. LH really is the only winner in this mess (and EY is, probably). They should never have gone with EY as an investor. It's a shame Hainan did
30 MarkusMUC : You'll never know in these times. A half year ago no one thought that AB's oneworld membership becomes obsolete so quickly. Yes, AB is the real loose
31 ushermittwoch : Quite weird all of this. But I would certainly enjoy it if AB flights earned my Flying Blue miles and segments.
32 Burkhard : How desperate must one be to become a whore of two alliances? Mehdorn up to now managed to run down every company he led, days of Air Berlin are numbe
33 PanHAM : He had no choice, I am sure that this was not his idea. I said before, someone who has a blocking minority in a company is quite powerful, especially
34 Post contains images ASA : but how can the QF + EK tie-up work effectively, if QF is also an alliance member with QR and hopefully sharing routes, revenues, and resouces? Neith
35 panamair : Probably the usual situation with such bilateral cross-alliance deals. If you are a Flying Blue (AFKL) member, you will get award and status miles fo
36 Post contains links AF185 : It now seems AF's CEO, Alexandre de Juniac, is openly talking about the possibility for AB to join Skyteam Article in French: http://www.boursorama.co
37 r2rho : It's the first time someone publicly points out the contradiction between AB's alliance membership and its AF-KL-EY partnership. Let's see how this e
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