LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11457 times:
At this stage, it's not very extenstive at all.
There may be reasons (eg regulatory) why so few destinations are currently included in the codeshare agreement and there isn’t parity in the codeshares offered to passengers of Air France and KLM and these may just be tentative steps in advance of deeper co-operation but, compared to the hype of a ground-breaking deal and the Qantas/Emirates tie-up, this is a bit underwhelming.
TeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11350 times:
I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).
I was even speculating that it would be so extensive that it would be a precurser to EY joining SkyTeam, but in reality it isn't anywhere close.
Kind Regards,
Team
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX
OzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2592 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11049 times:
Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 2): I completely agree LHRFlyer. With AF losing it's partner in Australia flights, I expected this to be much more extensive with AUH becoming the new SIN for AF. However, it doesn't seem that any of Australia made it into the agreement (at least not yet).
KLM is quoted as offering the MEL and SYD connection. AF will probably announce the same closer to the end of the QF tie-up in Mar 2013.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10497 times:
Interesting (and expected) development. Summing it up, AF-KL get access to several Asian destinations via AUH, while EY gets access to several secondary EU destinations vial CDG / AMS. With AB, AF-KL get access to Eastern European destinations via TXL, while AB gets access to secondary French destinations via CDG and to secondary UK destinations via AMS.
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4): I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...
This too I wonder... so far it is only some codeshares, but who knows. While OW would be of no help to AB for the French destinations, they are effectively bypassing BA to the UK by using KL at AMS...
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9067 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10428 times:
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 4): I hope it is not the beginning of the end of AB in One World...
Interesting question, AB just joint OneWorld but EY owns a big part of AB to my knowledge so if EY will join SkyTeam what will happen to AB's tie-up with OneWorld?
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9067 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10180 times:
Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 7): Will this mean that Etihad will be starting flights to Amsterdam?
Cheers!
That would be nice but the article states that KL and AF passengers will be able to connect on EY's network from Abu Dhabi so for the time being EY themselves will not be flying to AMS. Maybe it's a future route and that goes for the other Middle Eastern carriers as well. AMS in my opinion is one of the few main gateways in Europe that is not yet served by all three major Middle Eastern carriers (EK, EY, QR). I think over time that will change. The same goes for MIA in my opinion.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7750 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10177 times:
I do unerstand that EY wanted the feed from BER and the additional feed from DUS as well, this gives some good options for India and far east / Australia traffic.
But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.
Scheduling to European points makes sense with early morning and late afternoon departures, making same day trips possible. That leaves out connecting European traffic. I said in the other thread that both AF and KL comb the German market since 6 decades. What could bring AB to them they don't already have?
This whole set-up makes little tonon-sense.
IIRC AB just invested some 40 Million € in joining OW. Congratulations, unless OW and Sky Team merge that was money down the drain.
Alliances make sense in long distance hub to hib traffic as well as hub to spoke and in European traffic it makes sense in bundling flights from secondary and tertiary airports to a hub and disztributing that out of there to secondary and tertiary airports. That's what KLM does successfully without AB, to some extend AF as well.
The primary airports between them have direbt flights.
SCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10137 times:
I wonder if this will also mean EY operating new AUS/NZ destinations (same for QR if they finally join OW this week). So far, QR offers two destinations, EY three and EK seven.
As are result of this agreement ETIHAD will have multiple codeshares in Europe with EI, OK, AF, KL, AB leading to hub operations at several European stations, such as AMS, BER, CDG, DUB, PRG:
Herewith an example of EY operations in Winter 2012/2013 at AMS:
- arr. 06.05 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:00 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 07:00 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:10 Billund EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 07:50 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 07:55 Stavanger EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- dep. 08:10 Cardiff EY 1059 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- dep. 08:10 Newcastle EY 0953 Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:20 Oslo EY XXX Etihad Airways B737 operated by KLM
- arr. 08:30 Cardiff EY XXX Etihad Airways F70 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:30 Newcastle EY XXX Etihad Airways E90 operated by KLMCityhopper
- arr. 08:40 Prague EY 7860 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 09:25 Prague EY 7859 Etihad Airways A320 operated by OK
- dep. 10.45 Abu Dhabi EY XXX Etihad Airways A332 operated by KLM
- arr. 12:15 Dublin EY 7910 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- arr. 14:05 Dublin EY 7912 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 15:00 Dublin EY 7913 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
- dep. 17:00 Dublin EY 7915 Etihad Airways A320 operated by EI
An interesting strategy for Europe, quite different from what EK is doing.
_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8669 times:
Hmmmmm... Air Berlin announces ORD service just as AF finally pulls out for good. And EY all ready well established in ORD.
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2037 posts, RR: 40 Reply 14, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8366 times:
Quoting _AA_777_MAN (Reply 13): Hmmmmm... Air Berlin announces ORD service just as AF finally pulls out for good. And EY all ready well established in ORD.
AB and EY both have AA as a partner in ORD.
AF's service on CDG-ORD is being taken over by DL as part of their joint venture so no service loss there.
miaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 825 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8208 times:
If ab fully join skyteam than that will be the end of it's service to MIA. AB service to Miami is largely dependent on oneworld feed. I wonder if BA will allow AB to join skyteam without a fight.
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2037 posts, RR: 40 Reply 16, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8112 times:
Quoting miaintl (Reply 15):
If ab fully join skyteam than that will be the end of it's service to MIA. AB service to Miami is largely dependent on oneworld feed. I wonder if BA will allow AB to join skyteam without a fight.
Termination will in any case be in the alliance contract. Therefore it could be that AB will sign many codeshare agreements that go beyond their one world membership, as it may be very costly to cancel one world participation and AB does lack cash right now.
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7966 times:
Jano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 814 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6794 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.
SQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6711 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): But what can AF and KL gain from AB? And vice versa? The best option where this "Eastern Eruope" traffic could gain wpould be VIE, not BER.
Its just an idea, but maybe EY future plans for AB are to use them as a feeder for flights outside of Europe only. Going east feeding EY and going west feeding AF/KL (when we are talking about long haul flights). Finally keeping a few high density seating layout equipped WB's for leisure routes.
This is based on the assumption that AF/KL might be more important for EY than AB.
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6215 times:
Quoting sscaf001 (Reply 19): Unfortunately, reservation is closed for AF664 in S13 :
AF 664 CDG/2E
10:30 ORD/5
12:30 332/0
JC CC DC IC ZC WC SC AC YC BC MC UC KC HC LC QC TC EC NC RC VC XC GS
Where are you looking? I still see AF667/664 to be bookable in GDS, delta.com, Expedia, etc.,- I tried dates in June and July 2013, and they all show the flight operating with AF metal.
TWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 753 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6126 times:
Like I said in another post, will we see alliance hopping soon? I can see tie-ups with AB/ET and AF/KL with Virgin Australia and DL.
So... QR goes to OW, ET goes to ST, and EK (the airline that all the other airlines love to hate) will hopefully go to Star? Or not since Star has been quoted to not want a Gulf carrier. What if, due to the tie-up, EK joins star and drags QF with them (or vice-verse)?
There's nothing like the smell of Jet-A in the morning. It smells like... VICTORY!!!
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6005 times:
something From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 24 Reply 24, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5913 times:
So who is going to fly a two-stop routing when there are many one stops available? How low yielding must this traffic be?
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
25 r2rho: Agree. I see the sense in AB-EY and AF-KL-EY cooperation. But AB-AF-KL is strange.... AF-KL don't need AB to tap into the German market, they do that
26 MarkusMUC: That are fascinating times. : ) Air Berlin joins oneworld. Emirates allies with Qantas. Etihad allies with Air France-KLM and Air Berlin. Qatar Airway
27 PanHAM: I would not say that they don't have a plan. Working to make all sections and parts of the business profitable and self-sustainable is quite a good p
28 LHRFlyer: From what has said at the press conference yesterday, everything points to Qantas staying in oneworld.
29 Rara: Exactly. LH really is the only winner in this mess (and EY is, probably). They should never have gone with EY as an investor. It's a shame Hainan did
30 MarkusMUC: You'll never know in these times. A half year ago no one thought that AB's oneworld membership becomes obsolete so quickly. Yes, AB is the real loose
31 ushermittwoch: Quite weird all of this. But I would certainly enjoy it if AB flights earned my Flying Blue miles and segments.
32 Burkhard: How desperate must one be to become a whore of two alliances? Mehdorn up to now managed to run down every company he led, days of Air Berlin are numbe
33 PanHAM: He had no choice, I am sure that this was not his idea. I said before, someone who has a blocking minority in a company is quite powerful, especially
34 ASA: but how can the QF + EK tie-up work effectively, if QF is also an alliance member with QR and hopefully sharing routes, revenues, and resouces? Neith
35 panamair: Probably the usual situation with such bilateral cross-alliance deals. If you are a Flying Blue (AFKL) member, you will get award and status miles fo
36 AF185: It now seems AF's CEO, Alexandre de Juniac, is openly talking about the possibility for AB to join Skyteam Article in French: http://www.boursorama.co
37 r2rho: It's the first time someone publicly points out the contradiction between AB's alliance membership and its AF-KL-EY partnership. Let's see how this e
Sponsor Message: 
From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 298 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 505 posts, 
From France, joined Nov 2004, 2592 posts, 
From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2361 posts, 
From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2245 posts, 
From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9067 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1880 posts, 
From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2037 posts, 
From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 814 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Aug 2007, 63 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
