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WN Oct 22 Spring 2013 Schedule Release Predictions  
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16147 times:

Mine are: Finally a codeshare announcement.
SJU FL flying transition to WN.
New SJU service to MDW,HOU,STL
New international flying for FL.
MDW to MBJ,MEX
STL to MEX,MBJ
DEN to SJD
AUS to SJD,MBJ
Now for my SNA
FL dropping both LAS and SFO
Add 1 ATL redeye and + 1 SJD= 2
WN redeye flying
LAX -BWI,MDW. SAN -BWI,MDW. SEA -BWI
SFO -BWI, LAS -BWI, PHX -BWI
Your picks ?Wnfg  

[Edited 2012-10-08 12:35:10]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
208 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16148 times:

I expect a CLT flight

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5553 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15902 times:

I would sure love to see a SAN-ATL flight (daytime, redeye - either one or both.) Many seem to think SNA-ATL is a given (particularly due to the intl FL flying out of John Wayne) but SAN seems to me to be a natural.

That being said, I will be (pleasantly) surprised if this actually happens.

bb


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15794 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Mine are: Finally a codeshare announcement.
SJU FL flying transition to WN.
New SJU service to MDW,HOU,STL
New international flying for FL.
MDW to MBJ,MEX
STL to MEX,MBJ
DEN to SJD
AUS to SJD,MBJ
Now for my SNA
FL dropping both LAS and SFO
Add 1 ATL redeye and + 1 SJD= 2
WN redeye flying
LAX -BWI,MDW. SAN -BWI,MDW. SEA -BWI
SFO -BWI, LAS -BWI, PHX -BWI
Your picks ?Wnfg

It'll certainly be interesting to see if international flying is announced on WN equipment. I'm guessing not just yet.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more of the smaller FL stations integrated, however I wouldn't look for trunk routes like SFO and LAS-ATL to be completely WN equipment until more of the FL flying in ATL is dismantled. If WN removes too much from ATL then routes like FNT-ATL all of a sudden become unprofitable due to less connectivity. In the past WN has integrated the smaller cities that have the most benefit to being in the WN network. Cities like ICT and PWM stand to gain quite a bit to being connected to the WN network, and are relatively small and easy to integrate. Of course I am hoping to see some of the others integrated as well, as we all know cities like CLT and MEM are huge holes in the WN route map.

Personally I am hoping for DSM-LAS or STL (quoted by the DSM airport manager as the next two most likely), but I'm not holding my breath. MSP-LAS would be nice too, but three airlines are currently flying it (NK, DL, SY), so who knows. MSP-BWI or BNA seems viable as well, although with WN adding MSP-MCI in February they may not want to add any more out of MSP just yet.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15766 times:

I have to admit, I'm surprised PWM wasn't converted to WN at the same time as DSM/CAK/DAY.

With Portland, ME only connected to BWI 3x(?) daily, you would think WN would have converted it quickly to connect it to the WN network, rather than have it remain part of the dwindling FL BWI network.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15753 times:

I think PMW is the best next destination if their is no codeshare because it is only to BWI and would not FL ATL flights. SJU is a very likely choice, some more FL International probably and maybe one or two new ATL cities.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Mine are: Finally a codeshare announcement.

Didn't they say not until 1st quarter 2013?



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1983 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15733 times:

I would definitely look for a SJU announcement to coincide with this OCT 22 schedule release and @ OCT 20 earnings report.


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3811 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15733 times:

For IND, I expect that most or all of the non-ATL FL service (IIRC, mostly Florida flying) will be converted to WN service.


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15685 times:

Um...anything new to/from MSY would suit me just fine. Not that that's a surprise or anything.

MSY-OAK or MSY-SAN, specifically, would rock my socks. As would something like MSY-CUN, which I figure is bound to happen sooner or later.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15566 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
I expect a CLT flight

Now there's a shocker.

I believe what you mean to say is, "I want Southwest to add a flight to CLT."

[Edited 2012-10-08 15:30:52]

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15412 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):
I have to admit, I'm surprised PWM wasn't converted to WN at the same time as DSM/CAK/DAY.

With Portland, ME only connected to BWI 3x(?) daily, you would think WN would have converted it quickly to connect it to the WN network, rather than have it remain part of the dwindling FL BWI network.

I agree. PWM is one of just a few cities NOT connected to ATL:

PWM
GRR (surprised about this one)
SNA
MEX
SJD
Ironically AUS doesn't have service to ATL on FL equipment, but has service to HOU and CUN (WN does serve AUS-ATL). SNA has service to SFO, LAS, MEX, and SJD on FL equipment, but no ATL.

Also since I don't have much important going on today (other than watch the Cardinals swat the Nats!!), I'll list what's left out of BWI, ATL, and MKE on FL equipment (as of right now). The cities with the * are also served by WN equipment from the following cities:

BWI:

AUA
ATL*
BDA
BKG (Branson, Missouri will be discontinued with WN taking over the station)
BOS*
CLT
CUN
DAY
RSW*
FLL*
GRR
MKE*
MBJ
NAS
MCO*
PWM
ROC
SJU
TPA*

That only leaves 11 stations that are FL exclusive destinations out of BWI, with five of those being international.

ATL:

CAK
AUA
BWI*
BOS
BKG (Branson, Missouri will be discontinued with WN taking over the station)
BUF
CUN
CLT
CMH
MDW*
DAY
DEN*
DTW
FNT
RSW
FLL
HOU*
IND
JAX
MCI
LAS*
LAX*
MEM
MKE
MSP
MBJ
NAS
MSY
LGA
MCO*
PNS
PHL
PHX*
PIT
PUJ
RDU
RIC
ROC
SAT
SFO*
SJU
STL
TPA
DCA
PBI
ICT

That leaves 36 FL equipment exclusive cities out of ATL, with five of those international. Also of interest, WN equipment only cities out of ATL are AUS, SDF, and ORF (all well-established WN cities).

MKE:

ATL
BWI*
BOS*
CUN
RSW
FLL*
MSP (will be taken over by WN early next month)
LGA*
MCO*
SFO*
TPA*
DCA

That leaves just four cities out of MKE that are FL equipment exclusive, with Cancun being the international one. WN equipment only serves LAS, PHX, SEA, LAX, DEN, MCI, STL, and MSY out of MKE.

[Edited 2012-10-08 16:21:46]

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15368 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Also, here is what is left out of MCO on FL equipment:

CAK
AUA
ATL*
BWI*
BOS
BKG (converting to WN has been announced)
BUF*
MDW*
CMH*
DAY
DTW*
FNT
GRR
IND*
EYW (converting to WN has been announced)
MKE*
MSP (converting to WN early next month)
MBJ
PHL*
PIT*
RIC
ROC
SJU
DCA

That leaves just 11 FL exclusive stations out of MCO, with two being international.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15273 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

Now my new international flying predictions are on FL only.
I don't see WN metal other than SJU until 2014.
But if they pull it together before then I will be surprised.
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15027 times:

My predictions:

1x daily ATL-ISP
1-2x daily PVD-ATL

WN service to SJU, including:

ATL, BWI, MDW, MSY, PVD (in the latter)


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14995 times:

SNA/OAK/SLC or SAN-ATL? Doest seem like they have connected the dots yet nor is it worth doing it until you can connect with "airtran" flights. Its basically pointless to connect these until you can connect to "airtran" flights in ATL but all seem like great canadites for eventual service

DEN-??? Where else can they connect to Denver Domestically or realistically? ALB


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14984 times:

I definitely think SJU will be included.

MCO, TPA, BWI, FLL, MDW, HOU...



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14930 times:

Could we see WN do similar to what they did with ATL-MCO and just operate one ATL flights to BOS, LGA, FLL, etc... and have AirTran operate the rest of the flights just so WN gets some flights into these important ATL markets? Hmmm...

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
WN service to SJU, including:

ATL

I question ATL. I think they will leave FL operating SJU-ATL and take over all other SJU flying.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 15):

I definitely think SJU will be included.

MCO, TPA, BWI, FLL, MDW, HOU...

COMPLETELY agree.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14835 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 16):

You're probably right, though do you think we could see a combination of both FL/WN equipment on the route?


User currently onlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14805 times:

What are the largest WN stations currently not connected to ATL by FL or WN?

Quoting neveragain (Reply 9):
Now there's a shocker.

I believe what you mean to say is, "I want Southwest to add a flight to CLT."

Lol.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14786 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
SAN, BNA, DAL, OAK (SFO is serving Bay Area -ATL)

[Edited 2012-10-08 20:58:16]


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14785 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 18):
do you think we could see a combination of both FL/WN equipment on the route?

Their really is no way to tell what is going on with ATL until that codeshare comes into play.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlineANA787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14613 times:

PDX-STL, PDX-BWI, PDX-BNA, PDX-HOU, PDX-MKE, PDX-SAT, PDX-ATL

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14541 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New SJU service to MDW,HOU,STL

I would like to see this happen. MDW-SJU was last flown when ATA was around. That route has not been flown probably since 2006.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
MDW to MBJ,MEX

MBJ a possibility but MDW-MEX won't be happening. WN/FL can't fly Chicago-MEX because the route authorities are occupied by both UA and AA. Only two airlines from each side can fly on any Mexico City-U.S. route pair. The only way I see that happening is with an actual codeshare between WN and Volaris, since Volaris already flies MDW-MEX.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14267 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 22):
Only two airlines

I believe its 3.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13911 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 3):
If WN removes too much from ATL then routes like FNT-ATL all of a sudden become unprofitable due to less connectivity.

These routes will not become unprofitable. ATL to ??? will not be dismantled until a codeshare is in place. So those in FNT will be able to connect to the rest of the WN system.


WW


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14025 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 9):

Now there's a shocker.

I believe what you mean to say is, "I want Southwest to add a flight to CLT."

That made me laugh. LOL.  


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14002 times:

I'd love to see DCA transitioned to WN. Leave a few ATL flights and the RSW flight on FL and use the rest of the slots to to places like MDW, MKE, BNA, MCI, and HOU.

My ideal (figuring WN/FL has 15 slot pairs, which it did last time I checked):

ATL - 3x FL
AUS - 1x WN
BNA - 1x WN
HOU - 2x WN
MCI - 1x WN (this could be omitted and used instead for MDW)
MDW - 3x WN
MKE - 1x WN
RSW - 1x FL (can WN take over this AIR21 slot? Or does it re-enter the pool and go up for bid?)
STL 2x WN


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14025 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 26):
My ideal (figuring WN/FL has 15 slot pairs, which it did last time I checked):

I hope to see some DCA transition but I think u have way too many destinations listed. DCA is business which means frequency. We are probably looking at 5 MDW, 5 ATL (staying at FL), 1 MKE (if they want to keep MKE otherwise we could see another MDW or HOU), 1 RSW (which can operate to FLL or PBI if they choose, staying as FL), 1 AUS and 2 STL.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 784 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13983 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 16):
Could we see WN do similar to what they did with ATL-MCO and just operate one ATL flights to BOS, LGA, FLL, etc... and have AirTran operate the rest of the flights just so WN gets some flights into these important ATL markets? Hmmm...

I feel this is a great way for WN to get their feet on some these routes, along with a codeshare in place this will be golden. I think it would be great way to introduce FL customers to WN. Especially to the ones who have no idea that FL and WN are intertwined.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4320 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13879 times:
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Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
WN redeye flying
LAX -BWI,MDW. SAN -BWI,MDW. SEA -BWI
SFO -BWI, LAS -BWI, PHX -BWI

I guess you mean additional flying since WN/FL already fly every BWI route except SFO already.

But SFO-IAD would be a no-brainer with UA's flying the route almost hourly during the summer.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13810 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 29):
I guess you mean additional flying since WN/FL already fly every BWI route except SFO already.

No, I'm pretty sure he means redeye flying operated by WN aircraft and crews, which does not exist today.


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13783 times:

GRR and PWM need to be converted to WN soon.

User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13462 times:

With the codeshare in place I think you will see a big shift in flying at FL.
I could see FL 717's than were user on overlapping routes redeployed.
Use them to connect the dots until they're replaced with 737's.
New service like..
MDW-CLT
MDW-PWM
MDW-ROC
MDW-RIC
MDW-FLT
STL-GRR
STL-RIC
STL-PNS
STL-CLT
HOU -PNS
HOU -CLT
ICT -DEN
ICT -DAL
ICT -STL
Wnfg  

[Edited 2012-10-09 09:13:26]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13433 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 32):
With the codeshare in place I think you will see a big shift in flying at FL.

I agree. It'll be interesting to see how WN/FL deploys the 717 when the codeshare goes into place. This is, or course, if you believe the codeshare will be online before the 717s head to DL  


User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 28
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13266 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):
I believe its 3.

For MEX it's only two airlines from each side. There are other cities in Mexico where the bilateral only calls for two airlines from each side. Volaris had to request the DOT for an extra-bilateral authority in order to fly MDW-MEX since the route authority still belongs to MX. The other authority on the Mexico side for Chicago-MEX is held by AM. If for some miracle we ever see MX fly again Y4 has to cease flying the route and give the authority back to MX.

The only way WN/FL will ever fly on MDW-MEX is if the bilateral between USA and Mexico is amended or AA or UA give up the route authority. This is why you are not going to see WN/FL jumping on LAX-MEX either because of the same reason.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13208 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 24):
These routes will not become unprofitable. ATL to ??? will not be dismantled until a codeshare is in place. So those in FNT will be able to connect to the rest of the WN system.

Considering a lot of routes have less frequency and some routes like ATL-SEA are completely gone, I'm not so sure. FNT has noticeably less flights to connect to than previously (along with all the other FL cities int he network).


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13201 times:

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 24):

Judging by the results released last week, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few them already are unprofitable.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12604 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 9):

No I meant to say that


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12558 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 35):
Considering a lot of routes have less frequency and some routes like ATL-SEA are completely gone, I'm not so sure. FNT has noticeably less flights to connect to than previously (along with all the other FL cities int he network).

No they really dont have noticeably fewer connections. SRQ for sure but I bet 90% of the traffic on FNT-ATL is local along with MCO, FLL, TPA, RSW, MSY, HOU, CUN, SJU. There might have been a pax or two per day to DFW but SEA probably had only a couple per week.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12507 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 38):
No they really dont have noticeably fewer connections. SRQ for sure but I bet 90% of the traffic on FNT-ATL is local along with MCO, FLL, TPA, RSW, MSY, HOU, CUN, SJU. There might have been a pax or two per day to DFW but SEA probably had only a couple per week.

There is only one route in the AirTran system from ATL that with more than a 60% originating percentage. (Not that this should come as a surprise, as it's this way with any hub. You can't run a connecting hub with some routes having a 90% originating percentage and others having a 20% originating percentage.)

The highest originating percentage for an FL route served in 2011 was according to DoT statistics, surprisingly, HPN at 72%. Next highest were ACY and BOS at 59% each. LGA--ATL's largest O&D market--was at 58%. The 3 lowest originating percentages ex-ATL were RSW (18%), PNS (9%), and CLT (7%).

For the record, the ATL-FNT originating percentage was 34%. So 2 out of every 3 passengers on this route were connecting in 2011. Iowaman is correct.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12414 times:

It is likely any run of the mill stations might see additional frequencies to major connecting points (like HOU, BWI, MDW) in addition to, or as opposed to completely new WN metal service?


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12056 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 29):
But SFO-IAD would be a no-brainer with UA's flying the route almost hourly during the summer.

VX flys this route 4 times daily as well

FLY



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12051 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 41):
VX flys this route 4 times daily as well

Sounds like it's rife for more competition!


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12045 times:

I also can see redeye flying from LAS.
LAS -PHL
LAS -MHT
LAS -PVD
LAS-FLL
LAS -MCO
LAS-TPA
LAS-MDW
LAS-BWI
LAS-RDU
LAS -MKE
LAS -EWR
LAS -BUF
LAS -ATL
LAS -MSP
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11967 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 42):
Sounds like it's rife for more competition!

I like that idea. We'd LUV to see more flights out of IAD. We're currenly only doing MDW and DEN. With only a total of 7 flights a day 

FLY



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11958 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
I also can see redeye flying from LAS.
LAS -PHL
LAS -MHT
LAS -PVD
LAS-FLL
LAS -MCO
LAS-TPA
LAS-MDW
LAS-BWI
LAS-RDU
LAS -MKE
LAS -EWR
LAS -BUF
LAS -ATL
LAS -MSP
Wnfg

This sounds remarkably like the redeye LAS flying that US Airways terminated in response to high jet fuel prices several years ago. US was quite transparent about its reasons for terminating the night bank: what used to be low-yield aircraft utilization-based flying to position aircraft on the east coast for morning flights to PHX quickly became a money-losing enterprise. For US, it made more sense to reallocate these aircraft to other hubs and overnight aircraft at the east coast stations instead.

So, presumably, your view is that WN can operate the same routes but that they will be profitable? Is this because you believe WN has a better cost structure? better market presence in LAS? something else?


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4320 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11886 times:
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Quoting flyiguy (Reply 44):
I like that idea. We'd LUV to see more flights out of IAD. We're currently only doing MDW and DEN. With only a total of 7 flights a day

In addition to IAD-SFO, WN might also benefit doing IAD-SAN. The UA nonstop flights are always booked up and fares are off the graph. As a matter of fact, I've found myself driving to BWI to take WN's more affordable SAN nonstop from there.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11860 times:

I don't think IAD will be seeing more than what it currently has unless its an additional DEN frequency. You definitely won't see IAD-SFO or IAD-SAN.

As for the LAS redeyes listed above most of those stations have a LAS flight arriving between midnight and 1am already so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see some of them get a redeye. I'd say LAS-MDW, LAS-BWI, LAS-MCO and maybe LAS-TPA if it were to happen.

I'm most interested in seeing what's going to happen with SJU.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 24
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11840 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 41):
VX flys this route 4 times daily as well

As well as VX and UA SFO-DCA daily

WN could very eaily add BWI service and start making a mark on SFO-DC region flying

[Edited 2012-10-10 07:58:11]


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11857 times:

SJU rumored to have 6 to 8 737-800 being dedicated to the market.
It's rumored that SJU service transition to WN will happen in Jan or Feb.
With ATL remaining the soul FL market.
I not sure if test runs for the FAA and DOT are required for certification.
Would SJU require flag carrier status?
If so I'm guessing test runs would have to happen between now and December.

As for my LAS red eye bank prediction has nothing to do with what usairways once did.
A lot of eastern flights from LAS arrive after midnight to 3am in some cities.
WN keeps ramp and CSA crews late to meet last arrival which sometimes is a 3 to 4 hour gap between RON.
pushing these flights to red eyes cuts staffing cost and the AM crews already on the clock can work the flights.
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11796 times:

Quoting wnflyguy,reply=49midnight to 3am in some cities.:

Nothing in the system is scheduled to arrive after 00:55 local time, except during the summer when there are arrivals at 01:15/01:25.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinewwtraveler99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):

I also can see redeye flying from LAS.
LAS -PHL ........... Maybe
LAS -MHT ........... No
LAS -PVD ........... No
LAS-FLL .......... Less than weekly
LAS -MCO .......... Yes
LAS-TPA ........... No
LAS-MDW .......... No
LAS-BWI ........... Yes
LAS-RDU ........... No
LAS -MKE .......... No
LAS -EWR .......... No
LAS -BUF ........... No
LAS -ATL .......... Yes
LAS -MSP .......... No

So I see 3 1/2 destinations served from LAS on red-eyes



WW


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2480 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11694 times:
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Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 49):
Would SJU require flag carrier status?

We already are, IIRC. That is why the US flag was affixed to the a/c in early 2000s (?). SO that is a mute point I think.

But if I am totally wrong on this, forgive me.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4612 posts, RR: 23
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11598 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 52):
We already are, IIRC. That is why the US flag was affixed to the a/c in early 2000s (?). SO that is a mute point I think.

But if I am totally wrong on this, forgive me.

Yeah the flag carrier status is already done. There is really nothing holding WN back now from going to SJU. Will it come out in the schedule update in 12 days? Who knows. If it does, I can think of a certain employee we all will hear shouting for joy. LOL

I also would like to see some red-eyes loaded in. For schedule flexibility it would be a huge boost in getting people back to the east coast. FL's red eyes seem to do decently well, so I don't see it hurting us adding a few here and there. It is rough when people have to be at the airport and ready to go in the early afternoon if there is any hope getting home our east before they have to wait til the next day.


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11572 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 39):
There is only one route in the AirTran system from ATL that with more than a 60% originating percentage

Maybe I am misunderstood. I didnt say that FNT-ATL was 90% local but that FNT-ATL,MCO.FLL,TPA.RSW,HOU.MSY,SJU,CUN probably made up 90% of the total traffic onboard.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 54):
Maybe I am misunderstood. I didnt say that FNT-ATL was 90% local but that FNT-ATL,MCO.FLL,TPA.RSW,HOU.MSY,SJU,CUN probably made up 90% of the total traffic onboard.

My apologies.

FWIW, connecting pax per day from FNT via ATL for 2010 (last full year for which FL served DFW):

DFW: 8.6 (2.8% of FNT-ATL enplaned passengers on FL)

SEA: 1.5 (less than 1.0% of FNT-ATL enplaned passengers on FL)

So if that's the point you were trying to make, even 90% was too low!


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Quoting neveragain (Reply 55):
My apologies.

The original poster said FNT had lost a substantial amount of connections in ATL. My point was only SRQ and MIA were major connections lost. That DFW and SEA didnt provide a lot of connecting traffic. Though DFW provided more than I would have thought.


User currently offlineneveragain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 56):
The original poster said FNT had lost a substantial amount of connections in ATL. My point was only SRQ and MIA were major connections lost. That DFW and SEA didnt provide a lot of connecting traffic. Though DFW provided more than I would have thought.

To round out the story, then, 2010 PPDEW on FL from FNT:

SRQ: 17.8 (5.8%)

MIA: 13.1 (4.3%)

Combined with cities above, these cities accounted for 14.4% of FNT passengers enplaned on FL.

I'm sure in the case of the cities above, TPA and FLL provide a nice alternative for many of the price-sensitive people who are flying these routes.


User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11430 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 52):
That is why the US flag was affixed to the a/c in early 2000s (?).

The flags on the tail began to be added after 9/11. I recall reading that it was done as a patriotic symbol, not as any designation as an international carrier.


User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2461 posts, RR: 5
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11299 times:

I think its about time they change the remaining MKE flying completely over to WN, except for ATL. In terms of redeyes FL had been flying MKE-LAS/LAX/SEA/PHX/SFO so it'd be nice to see those return, but I don't know if they can make it work with the reduced connectivity.


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11087 times:

I think MKE-LGA will be cut or be left with 1/day.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10902 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Mine are: Finally a codeshare announcement.

Kelly has already said that the code share will be ready in 1Q. From what I understand that is far from certain. Also, whether that entails more than just int'l code share also seems to be in question. It is plausible that you will see int'l flights running on the Amadeus system code sharing to both the WN system (~Sabre) and the FL system (Navitaire), but not allowing domestic connections between FL and WN.

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
SJU FL flying transition to WN.

Maybe

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New SJU service to MDW,HOU,STL

Doubtful

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
New international flying for FL.

Doubtful until the code share is completely ready and selling

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
WN redeye flying

Was this resolved? I thought it was excessively expensive in the WN contract?

Judging from the quarterly earnings call last quarter there will be major route changes in the next few months in the FL cities.

I expect ICT-ATL is replaced with ICT-DEN/MDW. I think they also have to add DEN-DSM or just close DSM. I also wouldn't be surprised to see CAK-ATL move to CLE-ATL, and CAK-LAS begin.

Persuant to my DSM thoughts, I think there will be more FL station closures coming in 2013. I don't think they will happen this time, but DSM/FNT/GRR are probably all hanging by a thread.


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10905 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Persuant to my DSM thoughts, I think there will be more FL station closures coming in 2013. I don't think they will happen this time, but DSM/FNT/GRR are probably all hanging by a thread.

I think you're right re: FNT/GRR. WN never said they'd close any stations, but never said anything about FL closing them. I think DSM will prove to be a good bet on WNs part.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10851 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 56):
The original poster said FNT had lost a substantial amount of connections in ATL. My point was only SRQ and MIA were major connections lost. That DFW and SEA didnt provide a lot of connecting traffic. Though DFW provided more than I would have thought.
Quoting neveragain (Reply 57):
To round out the story, then, 2010 PPDEW on FL from FNT:

SRQ: 17.8 (5.8%)

MIA: 13.1 (4.3%)

In an environment where profit margins are razor thin though, it doesn't take much in a loss of business to make the flight unprofitable. Not saying it is now, but I can't imagine some of these smaller out stations are quite as strong now.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
I think they also have to add DEN-DSM or just close DSM.

The DSM airport director (who was also successful in getting WN to OMA back in the 90's) is actually pushing for DSM-STL or LAS. DEN however would provide lots of connectivity no doubt as well, although I would expect to see F9 fall out of DSM-DEN as the market would have a hard time supporting three carriers, all with mainline. Time will till which one of those (if any) will come to be. I am crossing my fingers the DSM market can support Southwest.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10817 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 62):
Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Persuant to my DSM thoughts, I think there will be more FL station closures coming in 2013. I don't think they will happen this time, but DSM/FNT/GRR are probably all hanging by a thread.

I think you're right re: FNT/GRR. WN never said they'd close any stations, but never said anything about FL closing them. I think DSM will prove to be a good bet on WNs part.

I don't think it matters what they have said. They can always say "things have changed".

Quoting iowaman (Reply 63):
The DSM airport director (who was also successful in getting WN to OMA back in the 90's) is actually pushing for DSM-STL or LAS. DEN however would provide lots of connectivity no doubt as well,

DSM is doing pretty poorly. If I were the DSM Director I'd protect F9 as well, but DEN just makes more sense than STL.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10767 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
DSM is doing pretty poorly.

Do you have a source for this?

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Kelly has already said that the code share will be ready in 1Q.

Garry has said it if for domestic and international.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Maybe

Very Likely, no questions asked.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Doubtful

Probably.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Doubtful until the code share is completely ready and selling

I am told the recently added international routes are doing very well considering FL doesn't have any known presence in the US cities they were added from. We can certainly expect more.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Was this resolved?

Yes. In the overwater agreement, redeye was part of this so they can now do redeyes as much, where and whenever they want.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
I think there will be more FL station closures coming in 2013. I don't think they will happen this time, but DSM/FNT/GRR are probably all hanging by a thread.

I doubt this. All the destinations they have announced fit in perfectly to the new WN network. If BKG is being added and DSM was added, all the announced destinations will be added.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10776 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
DSM is doing pretty poorly.

It just started on WN metal a week ago and the loads are much stronger. MKE didn't exactly have the network connectivity that MDW has. So far, the loads have been extremely (full) strong.

Red-eyes were already in the contract. From what I understand it was a technology issue. **SHOCKING**



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10722 times:

Looks like we may have to wait longer on PWM:

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/21...dd-flights-hopes-to-land-Southwest

"We don't have firm dates for Portland yet," stated Bradbury. "We are still hopeful that it happens sooner rather than later."


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10682 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
Quoting iowaman (Reply 63):
The DSM airport director (who was also successful in getting WN to OMA back in the 90's) is actually pushing for DSM-STL or LAS. DEN however would provide lots of connectivity no doubt as well,

DSM is doing pretty poorly. If I were the DSM Director I'd protect F9 as well, but DEN just makes more sense than STL.

I think DSM will do just fine. I just don't understand DSM-STL. It's a short drive, by the time you go to the airport, park, get there 60 min early, fly, rent car on other end, drive to destination etc, it's faster just to drive!! I've heard that WN wants 40% O/D on most routes and this is why they dropped routes such as MCI-TUL, among others.

2x flights daily at 40% O/D on 143 passengers per plane...that's an O/D of 228ppd. I think the market is way too small for this and I'd be surprised to see 60 O/D, even with cheap fares!! The drive is just too short. Heck...OMA-STL is only 292 O/D and it's a much further drive(100 MILES) and OMA is a bigger market!! (not to mention Union Pacific Railroad employees account for half of this number with the huge operation in both cities!!!, DSM does not have this either).

Plus...as soon as the Hannibal, MO bypass is done, the drive will even be 10 minutes shorter too, all 4-lanes with zero stop lights!! Speed limit of 65 in Iowa and 70 in Missouri!

Do other not agree with this assessment??? DSM-DEN on the other hand would do much better and tons better for connections!!


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2480 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10665 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
If BKG is being added and DSM was added, all the announced destinations will be added.

Of course BKG is paying for all air service there, so more incentive to have it WN sooner than the others,too.

I also notice Dayton is doing well on its one trip to DEN. That is nice to see. Hate to have to invol someone there. "Sorry, next available is tomorrow" lol.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 70, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10644 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):
I think DSM will do just fine. I just don't understand DSM-STL. It's a short drive, by the time you go to the airport, park, get there 60 min early, fly, rent car on other end, drive to destination etc, it's faster just to drive!! I've heard that WN wants 40% O/D on most routes and this is why they dropped routes such as MCI-TUL, among others.

I am also surprised with the DSM-STL sentiment. Monsanto, a long with numerous other companies are really pushing for STL service, although certainly can't support it themselves:

Quote:
Officials at St. Louis-based Monsanto, a global agricultural firm that has 4,000 full- and part-time employees at research and seed production facilities in Iowa, have clamored for a direct flight to St. Louis and hope Southwest’s arrival ultimately leads to one. Smithey said he continues to seek that route.

Ted Crosbie, the company’s vice president of integrated farming systems, says he makes a roughly six-hour drive to St. Louis for meetings because layovers in Chicago or Dallas are not worth the hassle.

“The price was awful, but what was worse was you couldn’t count on getting to St. Louis at a particular time,” said Crosbie, who said the company at one time booked 25 to 50 round-trip flights per week to St. Louis. “I can drive from Des Moines faster than I can fly. In today’s world, that’s just nuts.”
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):
. Heck...OMA-STL is only 292 O/D and it's a much further drive(100 MILES) and OMA is a bigger market!! (not to mention Union Pacific Railroad employees account for half of this number with the huge operation in both cities!!!, DSM does not have this either).

I wonder what the O&D was when AA/TW use to fly the route?

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):

Plus...as soon as the Hannibal, MO bypass is done, the drive will even be 10 minutes shorter too, all 4-lanes with zero stop lights!! Speed limit of 65 in Iowa and 70 in Missouri!

This project has been on the plate for several years and is still unfunded by the state of Missouri as far as I know (although I stand corrected if I'm wrong).

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):
Do other not agree with this assessment??? DSM-DEN on the other hand would do much better and tons better for connections!!

I mostly agree. WN in DEN certainly has a great network for connections out west, although there isn't anything DEN offers on WN compared to LAS, if one or the other comes to life. STL is kind of redundant with what MDW offers for the most part.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10640 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 67):
Looks like we may have to wait longer on PWM:
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 67):
"We don't have firm dates for Portland yet," stated Bradbury. "We are still hopeful that it happens sooner rather than later."

What is he going to say? "SWA will start service on..." Thats what the press release is for, not for him to just tell the media.

[Edited 2012-10-11 13:30:01]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineSiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10581 times:

Good lord, when will they add a nonstop MSP-LAS flight?

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 73, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10558 times:
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Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 69):
I also notice Dayton is doing well on its one trip to DEN. That is nice to see. Hate to have to invol someone there. "Sorry, next available is tomorrow" lol.

Yes that would certainly stink, or any type of major delay for connecting inbound pax to DAY. DSM and soon EYW will be in a similar situation with only two daily flights.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 72):
Good lord, when will they add a nonstop MSP-LAS flight?

I'm crossing my fingers. Not worth much, but Flightaware shows WN does carry 5% of the MSP-LAS traffic, 2% via MDW and 3% via DEN.  
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 71):
What is he going to say? "SWA will start service on..." Thats what the press release is for, not for him to just tell the media.

Yes no way they'd say it was happening in the schedule extension in 11 days if it really is.


User currently offlineSiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10548 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 73):

I'm crossing my fingers. Not worth much, but Flightaware shows WN does carry 5% of the MSP-LAS traffic, 2% via MDW and 3% via DEN

Lol. I'm not sure that I'd use flightaware as a solid source in this instance.


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10564 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
DSM is doing pretty poorly.

Do you have a source for this?

Along with FNT and GRR, WN had better figure out a way to serve smaller sized communities over 500,000 and under 1m in population. If they cant, they will have a increasing problem driving a revenue premium as airlines like NK and B6 expand.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 75):
WN had better figure out a way to serve smaller sized communities over 500,000 and under 1m in population.

They have already, you are looking at it, BKG.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10566 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 71):
What is he going to say? "SWA will start service on..." Thats what the press release is for, not for him to just tell the media.

From the sounds of the article, it sounded like PWM was still in the courting phase of their relationship with WN. Sounds pretty negative to me (in the sense of PWM being added in 11 days), but hey, that's just my   .


User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 78, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10418 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 76):
They have already, you are looking at it, BKG.

That's really not a representative market. There arent 50 or 100 more BKGs


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25561 posts, RR: 86
Reply 79, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10400 times:
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Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 78):
That's really not a representative market. There arent 50 or 100 more BKGs

  

I can think of very few cities that will insulate its airlines against loss and give those airlines a monopoly on the routes it flies.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineg1zmonc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 80, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10242 times:

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 72):
Good lord, when will they add a nonstop MSP-LAS flight?

One would think WN would add MSPLAS nonstop with all the traffic on that route. Many other cities have multiple NS. But does DL have that sewn up.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 81, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10259 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
DSM is doing pretty poorly.

Do you have a source for this?

WN/FL load factors out of DSM

Sep2011 26%
Oct2011 28%
Nov2011 49%
Dec2011 49%
Jan 2012 42%
Feb 2012 43%
Mar 2012 56%
Apr 2012 36%
May 2012 52%
Jun 2012 56%

Those are abominable. I understand they moved it to MDW, but I can't even believe they kept it through that horrible performance. Meanwhile, they closed many other FL stations with much better performances, PHF/SRQ for example.

MDW will be better, but I struggle to think it goes from that to profitable...

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Kelly has already said that the code share will be ready in 1Q.

Garry has said it if for domestic and international.

Talking to the troops actually working on it...it's far from definite.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Doubtful until the code share is completely ready and selling

I am told the recently added international routes are doing very well considering FL doesn't have any known presence in the US cities they were added from. We can certainly expect more.

There's a difference between what they say and there actual data. They also said DSM was doing fine when it was running with a 26% LF. No airline every admits that one of their routes is awful unless they are announcing its closure.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 65):
If BKG is being added and DSM was added, all the announced destinations will be added.

We'll see. I have growing doubts.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 66):
Red-eyes were already in the contract. From what I understand it was a technology issue.

It's easy to think it was technology, but I heard it was actually a pay rate issue in the contract whereby it cost them considerably more to fly red-eyes which defeats the purpose of red-eyes. True?

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):
I just don't understand DSM-STL.

I doubt that will happen.

Quoting mariner (Reply 79):
Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 78):
That's really not a representative market. There arent 50 or 100 more BKGs
 
I can think of very few cities that will insulate its airlines against loss and give those airlines a monopoly on the routes it flies.

Very true. Agreed. BKG is indicative of nothing other than BKG.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4612 posts, RR: 23
Reply 82, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
WN/FL load factors out of DSM

Ahhh so now we see where you are making your claim. Based on the old FL network. Of course it wasn't doing that great, but connecting it into the WN network and MDW should help it tremendously. It is a totally different game now, but definitely think we need to get a few more markets into DSM to help secure the benefits of the complete network.

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
We'll see. I have growing doubts.

Good thing you don't work at WN.  
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 77):
From the sounds of the article, it sounded like PWM was still in the courting phase of their relationship with WN. Sounds pretty negative to me (in the sense of PWM being added in 11 days), but hey, that's just my   .

Most of the FL cities that are being cut have already been. I wouldn't expect anymore station closures.

Quoting enilria (Reply 61):
Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
SJU FL flying transition to WN.

Maybe

We'll probably see this sooner rather than later at this point.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 83, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10107 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting g1zmonc (Reply 80):
One would think WN would add MSPLAS nonstop with all the traffic on that route. Many other cities have multiple NS. But does DL have that sewn up.

Along with to a lesser extent SY and NK. Here's a shot at November 1st MSP outbound:

DL 1851 0700-0822 M90
SY 101 0800-0918 738
DL 1651 1115-1235 752
DL 2051 1430-1554 320
SY 105 1605-1723 738
DL 1551 1728-1852 320
DL 1682 1933-2057 752
DL 1451 2130-2250 738
NK 763 2225-2344 319

US/HP also served MSP-LAS for many years before the LAS pulldown.

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
WN/FL load factors out of DSM

Sep2011 26%
Oct2011 28%
Nov2011 49%
Dec2011 49%
Jan 2012 42%
Feb 2012 43%
Mar 2012 56%
Apr 2012 36%
May 2012 52%
Jun 2012 56%

Those are abominable. I understand they moved it to MDW, but I can't even believe they kept it through that horrible performance. Meanwhile, they closed many other FL stations with much better performances, PHF/SRQ for example.

MDW will be better, but I struggle to think it goes from that to profitable...
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 82):
Ahhh so now we see where you are making your claim. Based on the old FL network. Of course it wasn't doing that great, but connecting it into the WN network and MDW should help it tremendously.

MDW makes so much more sense than MKE from DSM:

More O&D
Many more cities available to connect to
Many more frequencies to connect to
The flights are now on a much better known airline
DSM is now part of the stronger WN network from their strong stations
MDW is slightly less out of the way for the majority of connecting passengers

As to why they closed PHF and SRQ, I do not know as they would of benefited from many of the above things as well.


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10082 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 68):
I think DSM will do just fine. I just don't understand DSM-STL. It's a short drive, by the time you go to the airport, park, get there 60 min early, fly, rent car on other end, drive to destination etc, it's faster just to drive!! I've heard that WN wants 40% O/D on most routes and this is why they dropped routes such as MCI-TUL, among others.

Depends on what you would call a short drive. According to my iPhone, the quickest route from DSM to STL, airport to airport, is 345 miles, 6:06 of driving time. The biggest problem is there is no direct route between the two cities. You can either drive east to Iowa City and then south, or south to Kansas City and then east. If you wanted to fly, you'd have to change planes in ORD/MDW, and with the time you'd spend at the airports it currently makes more sense to drive. Don't forget that there was non-stop service to STL until 2010..and DSM was one of the last cities AA operated out of its STL hub. TWA operated mainline on this route.

STL would also offer more direct connection to southern destinations out of DSM than MDW.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23217 posts, RR: 20
Reply 85, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10054 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 84):
STL would also offer more direct connection to southern destinations out of DSM than MDW.

The question about STL-DSM seems easy to me: If STL-LIT/TUL work, why wouldn't STL-DSM work?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10028 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 84):
Depends on what you would call a short drive. According to my iPhone, the quickest route from DSM to STL, airport to airport, is 345 miles, 6:06 of driving time. The biggest problem is there is no direct route between the two cities. You can either drive east to Iowa City and then south, or south to Kansas City and then east. If you wanted to fly, you'd have to change planes in ORD/MDW, and with the time you'd spend at the airports it currently makes more sense to drive. Don't forget that there was non-stop service to STL until 2010..and DSM was one of the last cities AA operated out of its STL hub. TWA operated mainline on this route.

STL would also offer more direct connection to southern destinations out of DSM than MDW.

There is a direct 4-lane divided highway between the two that was completed a few years back. It is 65 mph and Iowa and 70 mph in Missouri and the only hiccup along the route is Hannibal, MO and the pending bypass.

According to Google, it is 338 miles. If you drive the speed limit all the way, it takes exactly 5 hours. If you drive 5 or 7 over like myself, I consistently do the drive in 4.5-4.75 hours. It's an easy drive.

Google says it takes 6 hrs and 12 minutes...completely false. They do not have the right speed limits taken into account. Not to mention besides Hannibal, there are ZERO stops along the way, all freeway style interchanges at major intersections.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Des+Moines,+IA&daddr=St+Louis,+MO&hl=en&sll=41.938317,-93.389798&sspn=5.957047,9.294434&geocode=FSHGegIdbqNr-innHmHBpJnuhzGy5JEmUSgAcQ%3BFbpmTQIdlKqf-in5ju36qbTYhzFb4Lsiyuo5vg&oq=st+loui&t=h&mra=ls&z=8

I think this has really cut down on the need to fly because before this highway was built, it did take 6 hrs + to drive and it was a miserable drive!! 10 years ago it was only 50% completed.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9999 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 75):
Along with FNT and GRR, WN had better figure out a way to serve smaller sized communities over 500,000 and under 1m in population.

WN chose not to service MDT which has a 2m of a catchment from Harrisburg-Carlisle-Lebanon, PA CSA, Lancaster, PA MSA, York-Hanover-Gettysburg, PA CSA, and Chambersburg and Pottsville micropolitan markets. If one includes Berks County (Reading), it's close to 2.5 million. Perhaps WN thought all of this area was close to BWI and wanted pax to support BWI, but it's really only York County and Chambersburg (0.7 million) where BWI is in close range, or WN didn't want to compete on Harrisburg-Chicago with UA and AA.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9901 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
Talking to the troops actually working on it...it's far from definite.

Time will tell.

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
It's easy to think it was technology, but I heard it was actually a pay rate issue in the contract whereby it cost them considerably more to fly red-eyes which defeats the purpose of red-eyes. True?

$1/per trip for pay for the flight attendants was in the contract prior to the side letter for flights scheduled to depart between 2300-0300 or scheduled to arrive between 0100-0500.

Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
WN/FL load factors out of DSM

The WN load factors are much higher so far.

[Edited 2012-10-12 11:32:14]


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineMTNWEST1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2480 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9749 times:
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Quoting usflyguy (Reply 88):
The WN load factors are much higher so far.



That is so true. Today booked at just over 100%
Also, they switched a/c into DSM from OO CRJs to FL 717s, so that combined with the diminishing hub at MKE would certainly explain the dismal LF % at the time.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

New rumor going around WN may switching futuare 737-800 orders to 737-900er.
with 198 seats.
wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9485 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 90):

New rumor going around WN may switching futuare 737-800 orders to 737-900er.
with 198 seats.

Very good news if so! Thank you.

[Edited 2012-10-13 04:54:39]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9417 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 90):
New rumor going around WN may switching futuare 737-800 orders to 737-900er.
with 198 seats.

Was the pilot/FA contract ratified in 12/2010 good for both the -800 and the -900? I can't remember. I'd love to see the -900 in Canyon Blue.


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 93, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 92):
Was the pilot/FA contract ratified in 12/2010 good for both the -800 and the -900? I can't remember. I'd love to see the -900 in Canyon Blue.

No, we'd have to reopen the FA contract for sure (not sure about the pilots)... the FA contract is up for negotiation again this coming June so it could all just be worked in.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2351 posts, RR: 3
Reply 94, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9342 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
DSM is doing pretty poorly. If I were the DSM Director I'd protect F9 as well, but DEN just makes more sense than STL.

it just started Sept 30...i think thats too soon to say that! From all indications DSM-MDW is doing well....you cant compare FL's service to MKE to SWA's service to MDW. Come on now.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 84):
Depends on what you would call a short drive. According to my iPhone, the quickest route from DSM to STL, airport to airport, is 345 miles, 6:06 of driving time. The biggest problem is there is no direct route between the two cities. You can either drive east to Iowa City and then south, or south to Kansas City and then east. If you wanted to fly, you'd have to change planes in ORD/MDW, and with the time you'd spend at the airports it currently makes more sense to drive. Don't forget that there was non-stop service to STL until 2010..and DSM was one of the last cities AA operated out of its STL hub. TWA operated mainline on this route. STL would also offer more direct connection to southern destinations out of DSM than MDW.

Actually there is a new express way from Des Moines to Burlington that is partial freeway (with controlled access interchanges) and part 4 lane with at grade intersections. You can take that heading out of Des Moines to the southeast and it connects to the Avenue of the Saints at Mount Pleasant IA where you can head south to STL. Although still not a direct route to STL its much better than driving to Iowa City or Kansas City.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 85):
The question about STL-DSM seems easy to me: If STL-LIT/TUL work, why wouldn't STL-DSM work?

that's something to think about too. Those cities are also easy drives to STL and have much more direct routes than DSM does to STL. There had to be some sort of reason AA held on to DSM from STL until the very end. Perhaps this route could work as a 1x daily with early flight out, late flight in?? Guess we will see. STL is growing and does offer quite a bit of connections especially to the southeast and to Florida.


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9291 times:

October 19 both flights out of DSM are sold out..according to southwest.com. I have a feeling we'll see more out of DSM soon.

User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9303 times:

I'm hearing DSM and BKG are getting 1 DEN flt each.
DSM is also getting a additional MDW flt.
RIC is also getting connected to the WN network with 1 MDW flt.
Airplane flow is something like.

RIC -MDW -DSM -DEN-BKG-DEN-DSM-MDW-RIC.
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3859 posts, RR: 34
Reply 97, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9281 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 96):
I'm hearing DSM and BKG are getting 1 DEN flt each.

WN won't be flying BKG-DEN unless F9 exits the route. BKG grants route exclusivity to it's carriers (they can do that as a private airport) and F9 is the exclusive carrier on the BKG-DEN route.

LoneStarMike


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9267 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 97):
WN won't be flying BKG-DEN unless F9 exits the route. BKG grants route exclusivity

F9 is leaving BKG.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 99, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9250 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 96):
I'm hearing DSM and BKG are getting 1 DEN flt each.
DSM is also getting a additional MDW flt.
RIC is also getting connected to the WN network with 1 MDW flt.

Is there any substance to this or is it just highly rumored? +1 MDW and +1 DEN would make sense.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 97):

WN won't be flying BKG-DEN unless F9 exits the route. BKG grants route exclusivity to it's carriers (they can do that as a private airport) and F9 is the exclusive carrier on the BKG-DEN route.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 98):
F9 is leaving BKG.

I could see WN picking up DEN-BKG with F9 off the route.

I'm going to guess we will likely see ICT announced soon as well. The airport management has stated WN will be coming next year, and publicly WN stated earlier this year they plan to take advantage of the $7 million in annual subsidies offered to FL.

Maybe we could see:

ICT-DEN
ICT-MDW

Also a possibility of one (or more) of these now or in the future in my opinion:

ICT-PHX
ICT-LAS
ICT-STL
ICT-DAL

ICT-DAL could actually be fairly likely - ICT is well positioned to offer one-stop DEN-ICT-DAL or MDW-ICT-DAL to by pass the Wright Amendment restrictions. MDW and DEN do have a fair amount of options already though.

Article on F9 leaving DEN:
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/b...to-contact-wichita-passengers.html

Article on WN earlier this year confirming they want ICT subsidies:
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...-airtrans-wichita-service/603041/1


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9230 times:

Not so sure about BKG (although nothing is ever certain), as F9 is selling through May 15th:

Oct: daily
Nov/Dec: 5x weekly
Jan/Feb/Mar: 1x weekly
Apr/May: daily

I think BKG would be foolish to push F9 out of town and rely heavily on WN. What's that saying about all the eggs in one basket...?

[Edited 2012-10-13 10:51:45]

User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 101, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9219 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 100):
Not so sure about BKG (although nothing is ever certain), as F9 is selling through May 15th:

Hmmm.... it was ending, maybe they changed their mind?



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9216 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 101):
Hmmm.... it was ending, maybe they changed their mind?

I too read that. I think it was unloaded from the website in error.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25561 posts, RR: 86
Reply 103, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9215 times:
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Quoting sdoyon (Reply 102):
I too read that. I think it was unloaded from the website in error.

  

Frontier isn't leaving BKG.

It was a misloading which was fairly quickly corrected. Not quickly enough for some eagle eyes here, though.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2351 posts, RR: 3
Reply 104, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 96):
I'm hearing DSM and BKG are getting 1 DEN flt each.
DSM is also getting a additional MDW flt.
DEN probably does make more sense than STL. Can provide alot of connections out west. Probably doesnt bode well for F9 though, cant see DSM have 3 carriers on that route. If F9 pulls out of DSM perhaps they can regroup and build up at CID a little more for their Iowa focus. There is a healthy population here to serve and would be far enough from competing with SWA. F9 seems to be doing well here.

[Edited 2012-10-13 11:38:48]

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 105, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9198 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 101):
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 102):
Quoting mariner (Reply 103):
Frontier isn't leaving BKG.

It was a misloading which was fairly quickly corrected. Not quickly enough for some eagle eyes here, though.

Good catch.


The Flint, Michigan airport director is optimistic he will have "good news" to present to the members of the airport board in April of next year regarding the FL/WN transition. Whether that means the conversion will be announced in April or whether it will actually start in April I'm not sure. If it is going to start in April FNT will likely be announced on this upcoming Oct 22 schedule release. The airport has seen a 13% decline in passengers but ironically just added two more gates.

MDW is the only destination actually mentioned in the article. FL currently flies FNT-ATL, RSW, MCO, and TPA. I suspect at least MCO and TPA will stick around. At 221 miles FNT-MDW would be one of the shorter routes in the system.

http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-mi...an/index.ssf/2012/09/post_121.html


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9098 times:

Ya the last 2 rumors don't come from a reliable it's another friend of a friend type.
But again worth discussion among us airline nerds so I post and see what validation they have.
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23217 posts, RR: 20
Reply 107, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 105):
At 221 miles FNT-MDW would be one of the shorter routes in the system.

Correct, but much like ORF-BWI, it's not as easy a drive as a "typical" 220 mile route, so that likely would not be a dealbreaker.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8736 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 104):

If ALO or SUX can come up with some money, 4x weekly to DEN might be something F9 would do.


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2351 posts, RR: 3
Reply 109, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8589 times:

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 108):

If ALO or SUX can come up with some money, 4x weekly to DEN might be something F9 would do.

never say never I guess but F9 did try SUX at one point but then pulled out. ALO always seems to be served with grants/essential air service, historically with NW(DL) and now AA. So if they are using federal money for current service not sure if they can throw money at another carrier. I dont think I could ever see F9 being there. CID is the population center of eastern Iowa and busiest airport and is ringed by ALO, DBQ and MLI. Not to mention it serves the Iowa City/Johnson County population too as their gateway. I could see F9 building CID a little more if SWA chases them out of DSM.


User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 105):
The Flint, Michigan airport director is optimistic he will have "good news" to present to the members of the airport board in April of next year regarding the FL/WN transition. Whether that means the conversion will be announced in April or whether it will actually start in April I'm not sure. If it is going to start in April FNT will likely be announced on this upcoming Oct 22 schedule release. The airport has seen a 13% decline in passengers but ironically just added two more gates.

That's good news. I have a lot of family in Michigan that prefer the convenience of FNT over DTW. I was just there in August and saw the construction going on. I'm sure MDW would be successful; driving can be a pain in the butt because there really is no direct route, you have to go down into Indiana and back up to Chicago. Since I moved to Chicago, the fastest I was able to drive home was 5 hours 15 minutes. That was with no construction (a rarity) and light traffic.
I think WN could offer flights to Florida, ATL, and MDW and be successful.



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25561 posts, RR: 86
Reply 111, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8531 times:
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Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 108):
If ALO or SUX can come up with some money, 4x weekly to DEN might be something F9 would do.

Indeed. Now that Airtran is no longer competing for revenue guarantees, the field is more open for Frontier.

Although I'd be interested to know what deal Southwest has with BKG.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 112, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8528 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 107):
Correct, but much like ORF-BWI, it's not as easy a drive as a "typical" 220 mile route, so that likely would not be a dealbreaker.

Very valid point.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 109):
never say never I guess but F9 did try SUX at one point but then pulled out. ALO always seems to be served with grants/essential air service, historically with NW(DL) and now AA. So if they are using federal money for current service not sure if they can throw money at another carrier.

With a $1.54 million subsidy for just two ERJ's to ORD a day I can't see F9 happening. Even with low-fare stimulation it isn't a huge market, especially with CID an hour down the road. I will say I have flown out of ALO in the past and the facilities there are very nice - even jet ways for the Saab's while XJ still flew there. It's unfortunate ALO can't support a little more service.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 109):
could see F9 building CID a little more if SWA chases them out of DSM.

Build to where?? Making DEN daily? I don't see them going up against G4 to MCO.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 110):
I think WN could offer flights to Florida, ATL, and MDW and be successful.

I'm curious as well to see if second tier markets such as FNT-ATL will be around after full network integration. I believe it's been discussed in the past WN is planning on downsizing the network at ATL, and if so I'd look for the larger stations stay. FNT-ATL does have a sizeable O&D to ATL however. Maybe we could see flights like FNT-DEN and FNT-BWI as well or in replace of ATL.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 113, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8241 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 82):
Of course it wasn't doing that great,
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 82):
It is a totally different game now
Quoting iowaman (Reply 83):
MDW makes so much more sense than MKE from DSM:
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 88):
Quoting enilria (Reply 81):
WN/FL load factors out of DSM

The WN load factors are much higher so far.

Since there is no public data we are just taking that all on faith. What we know is that it has been awful up till now. I just don't understand why they kept it when other things doing far better were axed. It's just peculiar...and it's a small station as well unlike SRQ/PHF which were larger.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 100):
I think BKG would be foolish to push F9 out of town and rely heavily on WN.

I'm glad that turned out untrue. It would have been pretty damming to see them exit what most people say is a success story of their new network philosophy.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 105):
The Flint, Michigan airport director is optimistic he will have "good news" to present to the members of the airport board in April of next year regarding the FL/WN transition. Whether that means the conversion will be announced in April or whether it will actually start in April I'm not sure. If it is going to start in April FNT will likely be announced on this upcoming Oct 22 schedule release. The airport has seen a 13% decline in passengers but ironically just added two more gates.

I wouldn't put much credence in that. It may be the cutover date, but other than that airlines don't tell airports of their route plans months in advance. A week is usual notice, if any notice. The airport would know the cutover because of signage changes and such.

Quoting mariner (Reply 111):
Although I'd be interested to know what deal Southwest has with BKG.

They were desperate for them. I don't really understand the economics of that airport. It is apparently a separate financial entity. It seems like they must be losing boatloads of money giving away their revenue and not getting the usual share of FAA cash.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 113):
What we know is that it has been awful

It is not the same thing. We know MKE did bad. MDW is not MKE.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8215 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 113):
Since there is no public data we are just taking that all on faith.

Or we've looked at the bookings...



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4612 posts, RR: 23
Reply 116, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8163 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 113):
Since there is no public data we are just taking that all on faith. What we know is that it has been awful up till now. I just don't understand why they kept it when other things doing far better were axed. It's just peculiar...and it's a small station as well unlike SRQ/PHF which were larger.

Like has already been pointed out. MKE was awful with a less than ideal connecting station. PHF made no sense to keep, so I don't even see the logic in bringing them into this. ORF was already a WN station so there was no point for that market. So pretty much your point on this really isn't going anywhere. We know MKE was terrible, but MDW is not MKE when it comes to WN. They likely saw a market that could be very good for WN, but on a small scale. I don't expect the schedule to remain with just MDW flying for much longer.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 115):
Or we've looked at the bookings...

Hey now...watch that common sense!  


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7547 posts, RR: 14
Reply 117, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 114):
Quoting enilria (Reply 113):
What we know is that it has been awful
It is not the same thing. We know MKE did bad. MDW is not MKE.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 115):
Quoting enilria (Reply 113):
Since there is no public data we are just taking that all on faith.
Or we've looked at the bookings...
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 116):
Hey now...watch that common sense!

I guess I've been on a.net long enough to know that random comments about loads rarely match the actual govt data. People said "(DEN-)Provo is packed" for F9 and the T100 data showed it was pretty awful and is now being cancelled. Bottom line, I doubt that the station will go from hideous to great that quickly. When looking at bookings there are often plenty of awful Tuesdays and Wednesdays that get missed. Again, I don't understand why they kept it bleeding for so long. If they fly DEN-DSM-MDW it will make more sense both because 1) they can have a product that covers more of the country and 2) they can get through traffic to top-off the plane.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 118, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8043 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 117):
I doubt that the station will go from hideous to great that quickly

It was never hideous. WN just started. FL is not WN and loads that are crap for FL can be winners for WN and vis-versa. FL and WN are not one airline so you can not compare MKE-DSM to MDW-DSM. Its not the same!

Quoting enilria (Reply 117):
I guess I've been on a.net long enough to know that random comments about loads rarely match the actual govt data.

If a flight is sold out it is sold out. No debating that.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4612 posts, RR: 23
Reply 119, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7859 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 117):
I guess I've been on a.net long enough to know that random comments about loads rarely match the actual govt data. People said "(DEN-)Provo is packed" for F9 and the T100 data showed it was pretty awful and is now being cancelled.

While some people like to embellish performance here, I wouldn't be comparing the performance of DSM-MDW to what happened with DSM-MKE. Some routes are just better setup for success than others. However, just now looking at seats available on DSM-MDW per day for the rest of the week...it is not doing bad at all. If I was non-revving I would be a bit nervous on some of them (some just flat out of luck), but can't really say more than that.

Quoting enilria (Reply 117):
If they fly DEN-DSM-MDW it will make more sense both because 1) they can have a product that covers more of the country and 2) they can get through traffic to top-off the plane.

You are underestimating how many seats are actually going unfilled out of DSM. Plus I don't see many opting for a stop in DSM over a nonstop.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 118):
If a flight is sold out it is sold out. No debating that.

Sometimes common sense doesn't rule.   Watch what you say or a temper tantrum will ensure and the OAG reports will go away. LOL


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2351 posts, RR: 3
Reply 120, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 112):

Build to where?? Making DEN daily? I don't see them going up against G4 to MCO.

yes, thats's what I mean...I could either see larger aircraft, daily flights or a 2nd flight


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23217 posts, RR: 20
Reply 121, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7856 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 119):
You are underestimating how many seats are actually going unfilled out of DSM. Plus I don't see many opting for a stop in DSM over a nonstop.

There are certainly WN one stops on routes with nonstops that go out with 20 or 30 thrus. Then there are one stops on similar routes that go out with 1 or 2. It's tough to make a categorical statement about that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5197 posts, RR: 21
Reply 122, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7836 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 121):


There are certainly WN one stops on routes with nonstops that go out with 20 or 30 thrus. Then there are one stops on similar routes that go out with 1 or 2. It's tough to make a categorical statement about that.


Agreed. And quite often, the one-stop thru or connection is cheaper on WN. I myself have taken the cheaper option when time is not that important vs. saving some $$$.



Next up, STL-ATL-MSY-ATL-STL
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4612 posts, RR: 23
Reply 123, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7794 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 121):
There are certainly WN one stops on routes with nonstops that go out with 20 or 30 thrus. Then there are one stops on similar routes that go out with 1 or 2. It's tough to make a categorical statement about that.

Don't disagree.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 122):
Agreed. And quite often, the one-stop thru or connection is cheaper on WN. I myself have taken the cheaper option when time is not that important vs. saving some $$$.

This is typically the case when the lower fare class is already sold out on the nonstop, which seems to always be the case in this situation.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23217 posts, RR: 20
Reply 124, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7779 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 123):
This is typically the case when the lower fare class is already sold out on the nonstop, which seems to always be the case in this situation.

One stops can be useful for their schedules on longer routes with only a handful of nonstops (which describes most of WN's 1500 mile plus routes). For instance, the two BNA-LAX nonstops depart BNA at 8:55 a.m. and 2:50 p.m. and arrive LAX at 11:30 a.m. and 5:20 p.m. There's a one-stop, however, that departs BNA at 6:00 a.m. and arrives LAX at 9:50 a.m., which had been the earliest any airline can get me to LAX (AA has recently added a nonstop that gets in earlier). That's an example of a one-stop that adds value to the schedule as something more than a cheaper second choice.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Well the count down has begun will Mr GK and company finally have good new?
I guess 11am central (HERB) time we will know.
Come on codeshare and SJU service!!!!!
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 126, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7335 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 125):
11am central (HERB)

I believe it is actually 11:30am.  



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 127, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7335 times:

CLT, FNT, PMW and ROC to be announced monday per report today!


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 128, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 127):
CLT... to be announced monday per report today!

I have to wonder how that would affect GSP and WN ops there...



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 127):

I guess you meant PWM, which will be a transition from FL station to WN. Hopefully we should see MDW or MCO added on this new network. We had a conference here at PWM last week and there has been a talk of wooing new carrier to PWM.

http://www.mainebiz.biz/apps/pbcs.dl...21016/NEWS02/121019963/0/FRONTPAGE

I guess this is the news we are waiting for.


User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 130, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 125):
Well the count down has begun will Mr GK and company finally have good new?
I guess 11am central (HERB) time we will know.
Come on codeshare and SJU service!!!!!
Wnfg

Whats going on here? I havent heard anything....


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 127):

CLT,ROC,FNT,PWM!!!
4 cities are better than none.
Rumor is that SJU and the codeshare will be announced live during the call.
Clock it ticking come on Mr GK give us even better news.
Adding SJU and the codeshare would give the employee moral on this merger kick in the butt .
And finally feel like things are moving in the right direction.
wnfg      

[Edited 2012-10-18 07:09:25]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineg1zmonc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 132, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

per the southwest.com site:

DALLAS - Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) announced today four AirTran Airways cities will convert to Southwest Airlines cities in Spring 2013:
· (CLT) Charlotte, North Carolina
· (FNT) Flint, Michigan
· (PWM) Portland, Maine
· (ROC) Rochester, New York
Southwest Airlines service begins April 14, 2013, in the above cities. AirTran Airways service will end the previous day, at the end of the current flight schedule.
Southwest Airlines flight schedules for these new Southwest cities will be released on Monday, October 22.


User currently offlineg1zmonc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 133, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

3Q 2012 SWA PROFIT: 16 MILLION

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...rlines-ekes-out-q3-profit/1640775/


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 134, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 131):

Report says codeshare on track for early next year. In regard to SJU... I think 4 cities is plenty for today.  

[Edited 2012-10-18 07:34:02]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

Nice to see WN landing at PWM...finally  
More cities please (bring back the MCO route FL and B6 suspended - I use it very frequently


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6816 times:

Nope... No code-share announcement.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6803 times:

Well no SJU today but codeshare 2nd quarter next year.
Monday the 22 schedule for spring flying should see a big shake up.
4 cites at once become WN so thats alot to under take.
I will be happy with that.
Wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5553 posts, RR: 12
Reply 138, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6673 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 137):
Monday the 22 schedule for spring flying should see a big shake up.
4 cites at once become WN so thats alot to under take.


This has been some big news for a handful of (new) cities as the conversion of FL to WN continues but there are a lot of existing/established WN stations that haven't had anything much to talk about lately and are still waiting for some sort of positive sign of interest (growth) by the Company...

I'll be interested to see if/how WN manages to hold onto their amazing market shares of 30-50% of air traffic at many of these airports that have supported WN so well for so long, while they continue to put (in my opinion) a majority of their new resources and efforts into a handful of cities and the absorption of AirTran. It's obvious that WN is transitioning into a hub-and-spoke operation so to some degree, this trend is to be expected. But I also think that one of the big attractions of WN in the past has been the p-2-p flying between cities that provides travelers with unique nonstop service in markets. And I expect this is one reason that market shares are so great in so many WN cities. With the reduction or elimination of this type of flying by WN, they become just another carrier where pax fly to a hub, change planes, and connect to their final destination. And often, there is no real fare difference on WN so will people continue to choose WN? I wonder.

There's little doubt that there are a few airlines out there monitoring the situation very carefully and will start/continue expansion at some of these "neglected" WN cities, slowly eating away at WN market share. I can honestly say that WN seems to be leaving themselves open to this competition and will possibly begin to see their impressive market shares at some stations start to crumble...

That being said, I remain curious to see what new routes and flights are announced for next Spring. I expect to end up being disappointed on Monday but I would Luv to be pleasantly surprised by the new schedule release.

bb.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 139, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 138):
waiting for some sort of positive sign of interest (growth) by the Company...

The company is not growing, they are in the process of transforming as they call it. SAN is lucky to have what it has, any other city would die to have what SAN has from WN.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 138):
some of these "neglected" WN cities

No WN city with the exception of very few are being neglected. And just guessing what you really mean, SAN is not neglected. Just because WN isn't growing in SAN doesn't mean SAN is dead for WN, its because WN isn't growing right now.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinedolphinflyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 204 posts, RR: 1
Reply 140, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

DEN - ALB
DEN - BUF


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 141, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6614 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Here's what I'll guess. I'll put a * next to currently served routes on FL equipment:

Likely:
CLT-MDW
CLT-BWI*
CLT-MCO

Possible:
CLT-TPA or FLL
CLT-DEN
CLT-ATL* (not so sure this one will stay)
CLT-LAS, PHX, or HOU

Likely:
FNT-MDW (Flint airport manager stated MDW is being discussed)
FNT-MCO*
FNT-TPA*

Possible:
FNT-DEN
FNT-BWI
FNT-ATL* (again not sure this one will stay)
FNT-RSW* - a relatively small WN station so I wouldn't bet money on it.

Likely:
ROC-MDW
ROC-BWI*
ROC-MCO*
ROC-TPA*

Possible:
ROC-DEN
ROC-LAS or PHX (unlikely)
ROC-ATL* (not sure how the O&D looks on this)

Likely:
PWM-BWI
PWM-MDW

Possible:
PWM-MCO

WN averages 6.3 flights per plane, and about 12.5 hours of flying per day. Assuming six flights per plane and nine FL planes converted means 54 new flights. Of course that is highly variable based on stage length and other possible additons to existing stations such as DEN-DSM.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 142, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Well worth the wait to se WN in CLT, can't wait

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 143, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6492 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Story about WN coming to ROC:

Eighteen percent of passengers flying out of Rochester use AirTran.

"We will obviously see additional destinations offered," said Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks. "We’re hoping for Chicago, Denver, some of the most requested by people who live here."

Southwest already flies out of the Buffalo airport. Dave Yanz is one of many local travelers who drives to Buffalo to take advantage of Southwest's fares.


Full story: http://www.13wham.com/mostpopular/st...irtran/3PGPPtxBik2nZSVHySNnjg.cspx

Looks like ROC-MDW/DEN may be highly likely.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6406 times:

I still think SJU could be announced Monday.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 145, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

I am very excited for Monday to not only find out the CLT, PWM, FNT and ROC routes but all the other changes!    Hoping for more DCA and LGA!

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 144):

I still think SJU could be announced Monday.

I agree, they probably don't want to give up everything. I think we shouldn't expect the 7 or so destinations people were listing though, if they announce SJU Monday, because of all the FL flights SWA is taking over in April. We can probably expect 2 or 3 destinations IF that.

[Edited 2012-10-18 19:55:08]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 146, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

The AirTran extended schedule is now out.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineMTNWEST1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2480 posts, RR: 1
Reply 147, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6055 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 138):
I'll be interested to see if/how WN manages to hold onto their amazing market shares of 30-50% of air traffic at many of these airports that have supported WN so well for so long, while they continue to put (in my opinion) a majority of their new resources and efforts into a handful of cities and the absorption of AirTran. It's obvious that WN is transitioning into a hub-and-spoke operation so to some degree, this trend is to be expected. But I also think that one of the big attractions of WN in the past has been the p-2-p flying between cities that provides travelers with unique nonstop service in markets. And I expect this is one reason that market shares are so great in so many WN cities. With the reduction or elimination of this type of flying by WN, they become just another carrier where pax fly to a hub, change planes, and connect to their final destination. And often, there is no real fare difference on WN so will people continue to choose WN? I wonder.

My thoughts exactly. I hear BOI-PDX is ending. So be down to DEN OAK PHX LAS and GEG ( unless they cut that too). Just flights to the western hubs, and one can connect to the same places DL UA and US can get you too. And AS thru SEA or PDX too if you like.
I wish they would cut some of the flights on the routes first, instead of just a all or nothing. Im sure there are routes where one flight a day could still work, especially to the loyal fliers, who are probably not so much anymore.


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