kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 13265 posts, RR: 34 Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 21412 times:
Good morning folks!
It's been quite a long time since we've had a new thread and there have been quite a few interesting events, some internal and some external, affecting Irish aviation.
- The continuing efforts of FR to anticipate possible objections to its planned takeover of Aer Lingus (and the continuing refusal of other carriers to play ball)
- The ongoing pensions issue; indeed, as recently as today - 9th October - Aer Lingus has put some feelers out in relation to a compromise: it will make a one time contribution in return for lower demands for salary increases over the next few years
- Varadkar and the DAA wooing UA to open a route to the US west coast
- The very successful recent match between the USN and Notre Dame looks likely to become an annual event (though not necessarily between these teams!), as the American NFL and Irish agencies enter talks
- Aer Arann has firmed up its order for ATR72-600s
- The SAA has successfully attracted a major new route: Shannon to Chicago starts next Summer, on a seaonal basis
- Aer Lingus basing A319s as DUB and ORK, and restructuring its operations at Belfast.
- Aer Lingus (and the DAA) still posting positive trends in passenger numbers, albeit from a significantly reduced base
There's probably a few more that I've missed, but it's still only 5am and the old brain doesn't get up until at least seven.
There's quite a few things from that list which are still ongoing; we'll certainly hear more about the pensions issue and industrial action can't be ruled out (though hopefully can be avoided).
The economic climate is still not brilliant, although hopefully once the EU decides to follow through with its promise to compensate us for our banking bailouts, this will make a significant difference and allow some significant investment in growth. Of course, we're not likely to see any movement on this for some time. Our presidency of the EU in the first half of next year will be a turbulent one, but at least is likely to see some significant developments - hopefully of a positive nature.
So, enough waffle for now; over to you folks. 13/12 is now ready to roll ...
Dublinspotter From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 21001 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 1): Aer Lingus basing A319s as DUB and ORK, and restructuring its operations at Belfast.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 1): ndeed not long now til the big move from BFS to BHD . Will be interesting to watch developments.
I will be at Belfast City for work experience a few days after the move from the international so I will ask if I can take some photos, but I doubt it as its an airport in modern times!!!!
I do think the airline has mucked things up a bit as in they can really go back to BFS after abandoning ship and the BA and BHD thing was a bit of a surprise...now we are left with one airport with two airlines competing on the LHR route and one airport with only one real international route to EWR. but if EI are committed to BHD they might as well make more business routes ie FRA CDG MAD not 2 London routes and 2 summer routes. Not good planning in my opinion....
But if they really are committed I hope they succeed.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 30073 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 20742 times:
""While that route is biting the dust, Kamen was positive about the potential to enhance its relationship with Aer Lingus and hinted strongly that United would like the Irish airline to join the Star alliance, of which the US carrier was a founding member.
“We’ve agreed with Aer Lingus that, while they may or may not ever want to join Star, and you would have to ask them that question, we think there are benefits for both carriers.
“They are a strong partner for us in the UK and Ireland. We will likely expand that relationship.
“The benefit for us is the connections they provide throughout the UK and Ireland, especially with [UK airline] BMI leaving Star and the Lufthansa group [following its takeover by BA].
“Aer Lingus provides connections at Heathrow as well as out of Shannon and Dublin services that we couldn’t otherwise offer to destinations that we don’t serve.”
Shocked Aer Lingus workers told they may get only 4pc of their pensions
The article states -
"Aer Lingus is proposing to close the scheme to new entrants and freeze payments for current members.
The airline wants to replace the current pension fund with a defined contribution scheme. "
Do you know what this looks like? It looks like an airline caring about their employees. They probably know from their legal advice that neither they nor the DAA has any obligation to fill the massive hole in the current pension fund, so in order for the employees not to be short changed in their retirement, they will replace it with defined contribution. I do note that it also says -
"Aer Lingus promised to make a once-off payment to kickstart this scheme if workers agree to pay restraint."
Which is only fair, to me. Alternatively, the whole thing goes bust and the employees are back to square one.
The company I worked for started a defined contribution scheme for all new employees, while the old ones get to keep their defined benefit scheme, so this is the way the wind is blowing.
Meanwhile, in other news, I got the retrojet out of LHR this morning quite by chance. I'd forgotten it had the Iberia interior. Lots and lots of passengers transferring on flights from Australia (I was on the 0850 departure). Funnily enough, the people sitting behind me were going to Dublin then driving home to Belfast and were very tired! I would have thought they would have gone to Belfast directly from Heathrow?
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
nightfox365 From Ireland, joined Jul 2011, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 19698 times:
Hi guys, I have been reading these topics for a long time now, and just purchased a first class membership to here. I am behind getting most news of aviation, but have a sub to airliner world. I was at the aviation museum at Baldonnell today, which was real good, only down side was it is by appointment only to go visit it. But plans are to relocate it, so that it can be open to the public at all times, without appointment.
tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1664 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19530 times:
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11): It has EI seats, but the rest of the interior is Iberia style really...
NOT Iberia style....just standard Airbus. EI have about 3 different types of Airbus interiors now (possibly 4). Differences are subtle such as minut changes in the air vents to pretty obvious such as the window frames. Its the easiest way to tell if you are on a newer aircraft.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 4154 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19519 times:
Quoting tonystan (Reply 14): NOT Iberia style....just standard Airbus. EI have about 3 different types of Airbus interiors now (possibly 4). Differences are subtle such as minut changes in the air vents to pretty obvious such as the window frames. Its the easiest way to tell if you are on a newer aircraft.
Given the ages of their A32x aircraft this is not surprising! I think there are two main types, the A321s and EI-CVx A320s have an earlier interior with filament bulbs in the reading lights, push-button cabin panel, but they have retro-fitted the newer style overheard bin doors at some stage - presumably when they had the 174Y cabin installed.
Early EI-DVx deliveries are quite similar, the only real difference I can see is these aircraft lack the cabin divider rail which runs along the top of the overhead bins. The window surrounds are markedly less yellowed on these aircraft also.
Mid way though the control panel at L1 became a touch screen and in overhead reading lights are of a different style, with a theatre dimming style on/off
The newest deliveries have the Airbus evolve interior with larger overhad bins, LED lighting, etc.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
shamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6581 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19436 times:
Quoting callbell (Reply 8): EI-DVM the retro jet has regular EI interior and not the Iberia one. The only 2 aircraft with Iberia interiors are EDS & EDP.
Any idea about the Belfast A319s, I know the ex-Iberia aircraft was hanging around DUB for over a year before it entered service and the other was with Comoros Island Airways but I've seen a few people complain about the legroom on them which was a common complaint when the ex-Iberia A320s arrived with their IB configuration.
Speaking of the A319s, one of them operated LHR-SNN on Tuesday evening and operated SNN-LHR the next morning before slotting back into the BFS schedule.
Quoting kaitak (Thread starter): Aer Lingus basing A319s as DUB and ORK, and restructuring its operations at Belfast.
I think the plan for next summer is two A319s be based at BHD, one at DUB and one at LGW. I don't think there are any A319s planned for ORK at the moment.
nightfox365 From Ireland, joined Jul 2011, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19115 times:
Quote: Industrial action at Aer Lingus now seems highly likely in the short term as part of an ongoing dispute over pensions, trade union Siptu has said.
Siptu said efforts to resolve the dispute over the €748 million deficit in the pension scheme at Aer Lingus and the Dublin Airport Authority ended in disarray at the Labour Relations Commission last night.
The union claimed the breakdown in the talks occurred when Aer Lingus representatives refused to meet unions representing the staff pension committees.
“Despite a request from the LRC, Aer Lingus refused to meet directly with the employee’s representatives. The company is also refusing to attend the Labour Court in relation to the issue.”
Siptu organiser Dermot O’Loughlin said this afternoon workers at the two companies were “angry and disillusioned with the discourteous behaviour which the Aer Lingus management team has displayed”.
I have almost had enough of siptu, they are going to bankrupt Aer Lingus with what they want. I do support the need for unions, just as long as they are sensible, but SIPTU are not being sensible here, they are being greedy.
VFRontop From Ireland, joined Oct 2012, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19074 times:
I did it, after years of reading and looking at photos I finally decided to take the plunge and join the conversation.
Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 17): I have almost had enough of siptu, they are going to bankrupt Aer Lingus with what they want. I do support the need for unions, just as long as they are sensible, but SIPTU are not being sensible here, they are being greedy.
I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't understand what they think they will achieve with this action. Aer Lingus is in a precarious position at the moment, MoL is trying to break in the door and SIPTU are busy jimmying the lock?!? What do they expect labour relations to be like if MoL/Ryanair are calling the shots?
Hopefully all this will get sorted without any more damage to the company and the already frayed relationships involved.
pesit4a From Ireland, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19050 times:
Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 17): I have almost had enough of siptu, they are going to bankrupt Aer Lingus with what they want. I do support the need for unions, just as long as they are sensible, but SIPTU are not being sensible here, they are being greedy
Quoting VFRontop (Reply 18): I agree wholeheartedly. I just don't understand what they think they will achieve with this action. Aer Lingus is in a precarious position at the moment, MoL is trying to break in the door and SIPTU are busy jimmying the lock?!? What do they expect labour relations to be like if MoL/Ryanair are calling the shots?
Hopefully all this will get sorted without any more damage to the company and the already frayed relationships involved.
Welcome to the thread folks!
Agreed on points above, though I see the staff's point of view here - I just think SIPTU need to do themselves a favour here and allow EI management to focus on fending off the FR takeover.
AmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 3344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18977 times:
I notice Aer Lingus operated today's EI111 flight (SNN-JFK) with A330-300 equipment as opposed to the usual -200. Was this a once-off operational issue or are they now going to rotate aircraft around the system according to demand? I'm also curious about Shamrock350's post above about the A319 rotations.
EagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18127 times:
Quoting VFRontop (Reply 18): Aer Lingus is in a precarious position at the moment, MoL is trying to break in the door and SIPTU are busy jimmying the lock?!? What do they expect labour relations to be like if MoL/Ryanair are calling the shots?
Great comparison there
Quoting pesit4a (Reply 19): Agreed on points above, though I see the staff's point of view here - I just think SIPTU need to do themselves a favour here and allow EI management to focus on fending off the FR takeover.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 20): They will only be turning the public against them and their cause.
All my thoughts exactly......this issue can still be addresses in Jan/Feb once the threat of FR has gone away.....
Strike threats hurt the workers in the long term.
: How long before SIPTU start making threats of strike action during the forthcoming busy Christmas season? That is the kind of greedy self-serving tat
: I would not be at all surprised if NOC moved to Heathrow eventually, though I suspect EI would want to do that twice daily, so getting slots would be
: I wonder if we will ever see BHD-SNN oneday if EIR did ever commence operations there.
: While I deeply symphathise with (and know) some of those affected - who do great work at EI - this has been happening to tens of thousands of private
: The following commercial website may be of interest to some readers, as it includes a considerable number of shots taken at Irish airports among other
: I noticed EI44 BFS - ACE turned around and landed in ORK and is now on its way to ACE, medical emergency?
: Also noticed EI779 ACE - DUB is now behind EI44, it departed ACE on time passing the inbound from BFS, it then diverted to FAO. EI44 passed by an hour
: Maybe a fuel stop? When the wind is from a certain direction there is a performance hit at ACE.
: I was on the EI779 on Friday night and we rerouted to FAO for fuel due to the northerly winds I had been monitoring the 779 for a few weeks and it se
: The payload on the other flight may have been less so they could have taken off with more fuel? Were they both 320's
: Would the A319s fare better on the DUB-ACE route operationally? I know it would be at a disadvantage in terms of capacity but would the range be great
: Maybe, it would depend on what engine rating they operate the aircraft with. A319 CFM options between 22,000lbs to max 27,000lbs thrust rating. ACE h
: Yup, ACE is a bitch to dispatch with a full load on an A320, every pax under 180 makes a big difference!
: Hey all a fab weekend at SXL Airport last week. Fellow Anetter took the controls and here is the story : A Pilots View Anetter Takes EI-CRU For A Spin
: Very interesting situation with the A320 on the ACE route. A nasty bill for EI, if it wasn't for those menacing winds! Great TR, hope SXL will restore
: Hi In about 1990 when I was working in Belfast, Airtours (or maybe my travel) and British Midland both used to operate a charter to ACE from BFS on a
: Aer Lingus set to increase Belfast to London flights Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/bu...lights-16225909.html#ixzz29dPdsmGq Not sure how
: Certainly seems to be hotting up at BHD and copper fastens everything Ive heard so far from within the trade itself.
: Not sure but they always amaze me with their emails and routes. They must have the magic touch or be blessed ----- New safety video for EI on the hor
: It'll be kind of sad to see the current safety video go - it's been there for as long as I can remember...nearly know the words off by heart now http
: Wifi coming in Aer Lingus long haul fllet shortly! http://www.ittn.ie/bulletins/infligh...tic-services/#.UH_6J9RKom4.twitter
: Arrived in a very murky DUB this morning on EI-DVM from LHR, nice flight with a busy load and friendly, if a little tired looking crew. The flight its
: I believe the current safety video has been in continuous use since the A330 was brought into the EI fleet and from faint memory, the B747 safety vid
: A thick blanket of fog lingered over the airfield up until about 07:30 which slowed down the departure of the first wave. This, combined with the arr
: I seen DVM last night parked at T1 when we arrived from MAN about 11pm, our plane G-DBCI had just come in from DUB with about 100 customers onboard, n
: Fighting talk from BA : Aer Lingus at City is not a threat to us says BA BRITISH Airways does not see the arrival of Aer Lingus at George Best Belfast
: The majority of BA customers ex BHD will be onward connections! So even without any BHD-LHR customers, BA will still do quite well! EI really need to
: I guess we will need to see the figures after 12 months of service with EI on the route for any real facts. BA still have plenty of Gold and Silver E
: All the more reason why EI need alternative carriers to connect to in LHR (not just from Belfast). BA's continued presence in DUB and BHD is a bit of
: Has anyone been to this annual Aviation Fair thing before? It is on 25 November next to Dublin Airport. http://aviationfair.webs.com/ Anyone?
: Yes, I went to it a few years ago; would certainly go again, if I were in DUB at the time; you just never know what you might find.
: Yes the fair is worth a visit. You probably will not spend very long there, but you should find enough to interest you.
: Did something happen with one of EI's 330's? 137, 125 and 109 all running pretty late today it seems?
: Not sure what this deferral will lead to: "EU extends Ryanair-Aer Lingus review to Feb 6th" http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-5085-13
: A few delays here in Cork this evening, my own EI724 to LHR is currently an hour delayed due to weather in London while the Aer Lingus Regional flight
: I was literally about to post this exact thing! It reminds me of a real airlines recruitment website - very nice indeed!
: Hmmm.....I sense a recruitment drive....
: EI109 just took-off from DUB now(20:49) bound for kennedy. More big delays!
: Yeah it looks great!! Watched the videos & all Me too, to see if anybody knows anything.... I really hope so!!!
: New ruling from the ECJ on airline delays: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...tpage/2012/1024/1224325627809.html However, if you go to the bottom
: Thank Christ. Finally we might see some common sense returning to airline ticket pricing. It is so dam frustrating these days to see advertised fares
: 2 ceisteanna: Is it possible to object to the body scanner at security in T1 or if you object do you not travel? Is this forum less active than it use
: Cant answer Q1 Certainly, but there has been a lack of hard news recently about Irish aviation developments so threads are running longer than before.
: There's a rumour circulating on another thread that American Airlines is to launch a nonstop New York (JFK)-Dublin route. The other routes mentioned a
: The current body scanner for staff hasn't been working lately. But staff have a choice of which method to use..... most people don't use it. Waste of
: AA will return to the route with a daily 757 from 12 June 2013. Best of luck to them! http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3589 Shamrock35
: Its launching it from June 2013. 757 even with competition i doubt it will drop fares
: So it looks like next summer will see a significant jump in transatlantic traffic from Ireland with added EI capacity from DUB to BOS, ORD and MCO; UA
: What's wrong with a 757? A new flight with a 757 is better than no new flight at all!
: 1) Yes, you can refuse the body scanner. It's been broken for some time now anyway! Lol 2) Yes, I think the thread is less busy. Just not so much goi
: True any new service/AC is welcome at the moment. As they say beggars cant be choosers. Anyway great to see AA back.
: Did ORK get a new route out of the forum?
: Sorry, you are correct. Nothing announced as of yet. DAA just confirmed AA JFK-DUB is going to be year round and in addition to ORD-DUB.
: AA launching JFK-DUB is probably more of a challenge to EI than either DL or UA. While AA/DL/UA all compete in a larger sense for corporate travel acc
: The AAIB has today issued a report on a runway incursion at DUB last year, in which a Monarch 321 entered the runway ahead of an FR 738, which was on
: So if you refuse the scanner they just treat you as a normal passenger going through the metal detector or do they get all stroppy?
: As far as I know, the body scanner is only in use at the staff security check in T1 at the moment. I have never even been given the chance to decline
: Bad news brought to you by SIPTU. SIPTU strike as only option as Aer Lingus talks breaks down Going round in circles. http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1025
: I thought it was going to come to this as usual. Glad I avoided booking EI over the next number of weeks.
: This morning I booked MAN-DUB on Aer Lingus for next month - I normally go with the cheapest option but as Aer Lingus was only £10 than Ryanair, I we
: Aer Lingus hardly have much control over this, SIPTU seems determined in this case. The LRC however continues to be useless. I must admit I'm glad I
: Not that I'm a pensions expert, but how much more than 66% of salary was SIPTU expecting? I thought most people got no more than that (and many quite
: Quite honestly, if SIPTU ruin Christmas, they may as well shut the bloody airline down. They'd never recover from a cock up like that.
: I am not so lucky. Due to fly next Friday from BOS for a family wedding. Hopefully they won't be organized enough to start a strike before then
: I think they will give more notice than that! Hopefully you will be OK. I, on the other hand, am booked to fly to Alicante for a few days R&R in
: Indeed, I should have made it clear I meant the staff and the unions, not the company itself. But it'll be the company that gets the blame, and loses
: Lets target SIPTU here.....there are other union groups in EI and they are keeping very quiet, no statements of solidarity and/or empathy with SIPTU.
: The talks appear to have reached a stalemate. If the gap between the sides is truly "unbridgeable", then there's little else the LRC can do. They can